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Modern Junk or Old Artifact?

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posted on Feb, 5 2011 @ 01:07 PM
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Hello fellow ATSers,

I need your collective minds to help identify the object I found while kayaking the upper Allegheny River near Tionesta, PA back in the summer of 2008. My friends and I stopped at a little peninsula where the river branched in two to take a break and as I often do went looking around the ground for interesting stones, etc. I found it half buried in the sandy soil amongst many other normal everyday stones. I cannot figure out if it is a piece of some modern equipment or is an artifact left over from a long time ago. I am certain it is man-made and not naturally occurring since it shows perfect symmetry. The closest thing I can find on the 'Net is a celt....but it is far too small for that. It is made of some type of green colored stone, but very lightweight.

Anyways - check out the attached photos and add your thoughts. Someone I showed it to awhile back suggested it is a piece of Native American jewelry. I found it very close to the site of a very large Lenape Indian tribe settlement known as Buckaloons so who knows? I'm hoping somebody out there might just recognize it as everyday junk or something far older and interesting.

Thanks, ETeeTime










posted on Feb, 5 2011 @ 01:12 PM
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reply to post by ETeeTime
 


I'm going to say it's probably Native American. It looks like it may be either unfinished jewelry or a gaming piece of some kind. It's too small to serve as a tool, that I know of. I've collected many Indian artifacts over the years, from points to scrapers, drills, discoidal's, pottery chards, etc.
pretty neat tho!

:edit: Could also be a fishing weight, Native Americans used them as well.

edit on 5-2-2011 by DisturbedToo because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 5 2011 @ 01:29 PM
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Originally posted by ETeeTime
I am certain it is man-made and not naturally occurring since it shows perfect symmetry.

There are a ton of natural things that look impossible to not be man-made..
The only thing coming to mind right now is bismuth, but there's a lot more out there...




posted on Feb, 5 2011 @ 02:04 PM
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At first I thought that it could be an arrowhead, rounded off by the water in the river, but you say it's pretty lightweight so you'd have to rule out that explanation. But it definitely looks as though it's been shaped by human hands.

I'd go with the native american explanation. I thought it could be the head of a needle. It perhaps would've been tied to the end of a thin stick and used to stitch up wigwams or buffalo skins or something like that.



posted on Feb, 5 2011 @ 02:06 PM
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Check with that guy on the Pawn Stars show. He has an expert who can tell you what anything is.



posted on Feb, 5 2011 @ 03:27 PM
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Originally posted by DisturbedToo
reply to post by ETeeTime
 


I'm going to say it's probably Native American. It looks like it may be either unfinished jewelry or a gaming piece of some kind. It's too small to serve as a tool, that I know of. I've collected many Indian artifacts over the years, from points to scrapers, drills, discoidal's, pottery chards, etc.
pretty neat tho!

:edit: Could also be a fishing weight, Native Americans used them as well.

edit on 5-2-2011 by DisturbedToo because: (no reason given)


Interesting...the fishing weight idea. Thanks - I hadn't thought of that, and considering it was found basically in the middle of the river, maybe just maybe?



posted on Feb, 5 2011 @ 03:27 PM
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I really need to stop using this wireless mouse. All of these double posts are making my post count go through the roof.

Sorry 'bout dat Mods

edit on 5-2-2011 by ETeeTime because: Removed double post



posted on Feb, 5 2011 @ 03:51 PM
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That's like the shape toy thingy. I forget where I first saw it. It works like a square peg into a round hole or something like that.

edit on 5-2-2011 by smurfy because: text.



posted on Feb, 5 2011 @ 04:09 PM
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Honestly... it looks a lot a ceramic deburring stone.

They're used for industrial to remove edges from metal.

I'm trying to find an image online... used to use them as ammo for my slingshot 'cause of the way they flew.

Er.... you're not near Pensacola are you? ^^;


I wouldn't rule out a natural formation or stone working by people either.



posted on Feb, 5 2011 @ 04:19 PM
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reply to post by ETeeTime
 


WOW ! I saw your first image and I 'bout fell off my chair . Seriously .

I swear to god , I have several cups full of these things , that I found while I was out hiking through the woods , here in Oklahoma , a few years back .

I spotted the first one , and looked at it and stuck it in my pocket , continued walking and spotted several more . I gathered up a handful of them and took them home .

I'll be straight up with you , I don't know what they are . I actually have a bunch of the ones you have pictured , plus , there are others that are shaped in the same way , but they are longer and more slinder , but still with the "axe-head" pointing at right angles like the one you have shown . I'm not saying they are as big as an axe head , I'm just using that for lack of a better term . The ones I have are identical to yours , although , some are larger than others , but with the same perfect cut .

Did you find just the one ? I'm betting that if you were to go back and look again , you might find more . Then again , I didn't find mine anywhere near a river , although there is a creek downhill from there .

My first thought was maybe Native American jewelry , or maybe some type of piece that is cast in a game or 'reading' , or used in some type of ritual . Again , I am just guessing .

I have handed these things out to many people , in hopes that they would run into someone who can identify them . I have several Indian friends , and have also given them some of these to show to family and friends . As of yet , I haven't gotten a definitive answer from anyone .

The Indians around here say that "it could be" indian , but they can't say for sure .

I have also had other people tell me that it could be some type of synthetic decorative gravel . And to be honest , the area where I found them , was where an old house once was , but had burned down years earlier .

Anyway , I went back and gathered up every single piece that I could find . And again , to be honest , most of the pieces were found in and around the old road that led up to the old homeplace . The farther I ventured from the road , the more scarce they became , and more difficult to spot , but right around the road , they were plentiful .

Still , like I said , I can't say for sure what they are .

Be very interesting to see where this goes and if we can find more info on these . I have searched the web , with absolutely zero results . Couldn't find anything close , from searching gravel , synthetic , artificial , manmade , or otherwise .

Was there any old homesteads nearby ?

This is very intriguing .



posted on Feb, 5 2011 @ 05:34 PM
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Could they be a form of keeping score?
Ancient money?
Native monopoly pieces?
is there any game played with pieces among the native tribes?
How about slingstones?no slingshots back then, but plenty of raw hide for a sling?
Perhaps button stones?ones you tie rather than put through holes?
edit on 5-2-2011 by stirling because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 5 2011 @ 05:44 PM
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Originally posted by okbmd
reply to post by ETeeTime
 


WOW ! I saw your first image and I 'bout fell off my chair . Seriously .

I swear to god , I have several cups full of these things , that I found while I was out hiking through the woods , here in Oklahoma , a few years back .

I spotted the first one , and looked at it and stuck it in my pocket , continued walking and spotted several more . I gathered up a handful of them and took them home .

I'll be straight up with you , I don't know what they are . I actually have a bunch of the ones you have pictured , plus , there are others that are shaped in the same way , but they are longer and more slinder , but still with the "axe-head" pointing at right angles like the one you have shown . I'm not saying they are as big as an axe head , I'm just using that for lack of a better term . The ones I have are identical to yours , although , some are larger than others , but with the same perfect cut .

Did you find just the one ? I'm betting that if you were to go back and look again , you might find more . Then again , I didn't find mine anywhere near a river , although there is a creek downhill from there .

My first thought was maybe Native American jewelry , or maybe some type of piece that is cast in a game or 'reading' , or used in some type of ritual . Again , I am just guessing .

I have handed these things out to many people , in hopes that they would run into someone who can identify them . I have several Indian friends , and have also given them some of these to show to family and friends . As of yet , I haven't gotten a definitive answer from anyone .

The Indians around here say that "it could be" indian , but they can't say for sure .

I have also had other people tell me that it could be some type of synthetic decorative gravel . And to be honest , the area where I found them , was where an old house once was , but had burned down years earlier .

Anyway , I went back and gathered up every single piece that I could find . And again , to be honest , most of the pieces were found in and around the old road that led up to the old homeplace . The farther I ventured from the road , the more scarce they became , and more difficult to spot , but right around the road , they were plentiful .

Still , like I said , I can't say for sure what they are .

Be very interesting to see where this goes and if we can find more info on these . I have searched the web , with absolutely zero results . Couldn't find anything close , from searching gravel , synthetic , artificial , manmade , or otherwise .

Was there any old homesteads nearby ?

This is very intriguing .



Now I am intrigued as well. Can you post a photo of one of the ones you found? Maybe they are synthetic decorative stones wince they are so perfectly symmetrical? I only found one, but I was only at the location for 10 minutes since we were riding the river and had 20 miles to cover before dark. There were no old homes on either side of the area we stopped, but the object could have easily been carried down stream from miles away, in fact, I suspect that is exactly what happened. I also did not have any luck identifying it with any of the people I showed it to - even a couple of folks who know every gem, rock type, etc. The reason I found it was due to the unique color. There are no naturally occurring stones of that color in PA that I know of. So, it might be ceramic?

Thanks for your reply - let me know if you find anything else out and if you can post a photo of your object.



posted on Feb, 5 2011 @ 09:24 PM
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reply to post by ETeeTime
 


I really wish I could help you out as far as posting a pic of these things , but I am dumber than a box of rocks when it comes to computers and loading pictures and all that .

But , like I said earlier , the ones I have are identical to the one you posted , other than the ones that are of different size , and the ones that are long and slender .

Mine are also the same green color , and they look really nice when you put water on them .

I don't know if they are ceramic , my first thoughts when I found them , was that they resembled jade . But like I said , I can't say for sure what they are or what type of rock they are . I know they are smooth and remind me of some type of rock material that I have seen in the past (the 'feel' , not the shape) . And I couldn't break any of them between my fingers .

There are a few that are sharper along the "heads" , and even a few that are showing signs of chipping in that area . This could be due to erosion though , I guess .

I will try to get someone out here who knows how to load pictures , to help me out in that regard .

I'm looking forward to maybe finding out what these things are .



posted on Feb, 5 2011 @ 10:34 PM
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It appears to be a type of tumbling media. It's used in Vibratory Tumblers to de-bur and polish. A quick Google of "tumbling media images" will bring up a lot of differently shaped ones as well as ones shaped like yours.



posted on Feb, 5 2011 @ 10:38 PM
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I have a stone that looks exactly like that from my grandfather. To me it looks just like a carved piece of stone and not an artifact. It could be a very dull Arrow head, but to be honest with you all the arrow heads I have seen have had a different configuration. But granted there are literally thousands of shapes for arrow heads. Just for instance: www.susansdesign.com... Still a nice piece though.



posted on Feb, 5 2011 @ 10:39 PM
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I think its a neat stone that has been worn down by water flow. Depending on where and how it layed as the water flowed over it for sometime it made an interesting shape.



posted on Feb, 5 2011 @ 10:45 PM
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reply to post by ETeeTime
 


It looks like a little bit of both to me. I don't know. Is it jade? Also seems a bit goldish.



posted on Feb, 7 2011 @ 11:59 PM
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Originally posted by alaskan

Originally posted by ETeeTime
I am certain it is man-made and not naturally occurring since it shows perfect symmetry.

There are a ton of natural things that look impossible to not be man-made..
The only thing coming to mind right now is bismuth, but there's a lot more out there...



That's not Bismuth! That's an ancient super-computer! It's the truth I tell ya...


That stone is indeed very interesting, but my first thought was also de-burring stones used in quite a lot of different manufacturing/finishing processes. You say it's light, which also makes me thinks that was it is, as one place I worked had a big bed of ceramic (think they were ceramic...) tumbling stones that looked almost identical to that, and were lighter than a similarly sized rock would be.



posted on Feb, 8 2011 @ 12:14 AM
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Could be that some Indian tried to bore a hole in it for a necklace, and the stone cracked and broke off, rendering it unusable. Then it was thrown in the river and worn down. ??? I dunno....



posted on Feb, 9 2011 @ 08:17 PM
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reply to post by James1982
 


Thanks for the reply. I looked up the deburring stones and it may be possible, although I did not see one exactly the same. The thing that bothers me though is that each wedge shaped end is formed like a little chisel, or like a mini axe. And it doesn't feel smooth like ceramic. But maybe that is by design to help in the deburring process?



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