Islam promotes Terrorism.

Are Islamic Extremists Really "Misinterpreting" Their Faith?

Are Islamic extremists fundamental because they are fundamental? Or is it because the Koran is fundamentally extreme?

The following are translations from the Koran - Are they merely mistranslations? Has the meaning of these passages been lost over time?

An argument that is asserted is that the Koran has never been edited or updated and that this stands in favour of it's truth or it's moral superiority. Do you think so....?

....Just a few questions to ask yourself whilst considering the following extracts:-

"Slay them wherever you find them...Idolatry is worse than carnage...Fight against them until idolatry is no more and God's religion reigns supreme." (Surah 2:190-)

"Fighting is obligatory for you, much as you dislike it." (Surah 2:216)

"The only true faith in God's sight is Islam." (Surah 3:19)

"Believers, do not make friends with any but your own people...They desire nothing but your ruin....You believe in the entire Book...When they meet you they say: 'We, too, are believers.' But when alone, they bite their finger-tips with rage." (Surah 3:118, 119)

"If you should die or be slain in the cause of God, His forgiveness and His mercy would surely be better than all the riches..." (Surah 3:156-)

"To those that declare: 'God has commanded us to believe no apostle unless he brings down fire to consume an offering,' say: 'Other apostles before me [Muhammad] have come to you with veritable signs and worked the miracle you asked for...If they reject you [Muhammad], other apostles have been rejected before you..." (Surah 3:183-)

"Seek out your enemies relentlessly." (Surah 4:103-)

"The Jews and Christians say: 'We are the children of God and His loved ones.' Say: 'Why then does He punish you for your sins?" (Surah 5:18)

"Believers, take neither Jews nor Christians for your friends." (Surah 5:51)

"Believers, when you encounter the infidels on the march, do not turn your backs to them in flight. If anyone on that day turns his back to them, except it be for tactical reasons...he shall incur the wrath of God and Hell shall be his home..." (Surah 8:12-)

"Make war on them until idolatry shall cease and God's religion shall reign supreme." (Surah 8:36-)

"If you fear treachery from any of your allies, you may fairly retaliate by breaking off your treaty with them." (Surah 8:51-)

"...make war on the leaders of unbelief...Make war on them: God will chastise them at your hands and humble them. He will grant you victory over them..." (Surah 9:12-)

"It ill becomes the idolaters [non-Muslims] to visit the mosques of God..." (Surah 9:17)

"Fight against such as those to whom the Scriptures were given [Jews and Christians]...until they pay tribute out of hand and are utterly subdued." (Surah 9:27-)

"It is He who has sent forth His apostle with guidance and the true Faith [Islam] to make it triumphant over all religions, however much the idolaters [non-Muslims] may dislike it." (Surah 9:31-)

"If you do not fight, He will punish you sternly, and replace you by other men." (Surah 9:37-)

"Prophet make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal rigorously with them. Hell shall be their home." (Surah 9:73)

"Believers, make war on the infidels who dwell around you. Deal firmly with them." (Surah 9:121-)

"Say: 'Praise be to God who has never begotten a son; who has no partner in His Kingdom..." (Surah 17:111)

"'How shall I bear a child,' she [Mary] answered, 'when I am a virgin...?' 'Such is the will of the Lord,' he replied. 'That is no difficult thing for Him...God forbid that He [God[ Himself should beget a son!...Those who say: 'The Lord of Mercy has begotten a son,' preach a monstrous falsehood..." (Surah 19:12-, 29-, 88)

"Fight for the cause of God with the devotion due to Him...He has given you the name of Muslims..." (Surah 22:78-)

"Blessed are the believers...who restrain their carnal desires (except with their wives and slave-girls, for these are lawful to them)...These are the heirs of Paradise..." (Surah 23:1-5-)

"As for the faithful who do good works and believe what is revealed to Muhammad...He will forgive them their sins..." (Surah 47:1)

"Muhammad is God's apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the unbelievers but merciful to one another." (Surah 48:29)

"Shall the reward of goodness be anything but good?...Dark-eyed virgins sheltered in their tents...They shall recline on green cushions and fine carpets...Blessed be the name of your Lord..." (Surah 55:52-66-)

SOURCE

I'm interested in reading other users opinions regarding the above and discuss moral or ethical philosophies (religious or non-religious)

It appears many any of the above passages advocate violence and discrimination against non-believers of Islam, and what many people would consider immoral preaching in many of today's societies;-

Is Islam really a religion of peace? Does it promote a society of understanding and solidarity regardless of belief?

The Koran may never been updated, or changed; but i think it is certainly overdue.

Let's discuss this is a civil manner please. This is not an attack, this is a study and discussion of the moral and ethical implications of the above philosophy or commands in Islam.

NOTE: If they you believe they are misinterprations then please state why, and provide some evidence to support your convictions.

In persuit of peace and knowledge;

A&A

Or are they extremist because of Israeli and us policies? To say their religion makes them this way is pretty ignorant. As one Egypt protester said "we don't hate America because we hate your freedom, we hate America because you hate our freedom."

All religions are nuts.

In the old testament god is just as animate about killing non believers.

Hooray for selective misquoting and editing!

I don't believe they are "misinterpretations" at all, I believe that they haven't even been shown properly! It's akin to saying that someone said "All pianists should .... be killed" when they actually said "All pianists should strive for creativity and never allow it to be killed".


Certainly, Islam does not necessitate "turning the other cheek" (check out how well that worked in other religions), but that's hardly the same thing as claiming it promotes terrorism.

Your title is misleading. Islam doesn't promote terrorist. Extremist do and their are extremist in every religion. Why dont you qoute the verses of the Holy Quran that speak of peace and love for mankind? //snip//

reply to post by awake_and_aware


Are Christians idolaters? Yes they are! Is this an injunction for all Muslims to destroy Christians? Surely, if they are idolaters they should be destroyed according to their own scriptures - -

Idolatry is against God?
bible.cc...

"You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below.

God commands you to do war against the unbelievers?
www.biblegateway.com...

17But thou shalt utterly destroy them; namely, the Hittites, and the Amorites, the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites; as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee:

18That they teach you not to do after all their abominations, which they have done unto their gods; so should ye sin against the LORD your God.

The only true faith?

“Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.” (Acts 4:12)

Do not trust those of other faiths?

(Romans 16:17-18) "Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple."

Give yourself up in service to merciful God?

1 Therefore, I urge you, brothers and sisters, in view of God’s mercy, to offer your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and pleasing to God—this is your true and proper worship. (Romans 12)

I've lost interest in this point-counterpoint nonsense, and I am sure that reasonable people get the point.

edit: In the spirit of respectful discussion, I add this. Islam and Judaism and Christianity are equally barbaric in their language. Some Christians may think that Jesus advocated spiritual warfare in the form of sitting around and praying hard (how appealing to the laziest population in history - - Americans). Other Christians take the spiritual warfare symbols literally, as if they must take sword to the throat of the evil ones (i.e. anyone other than Christians). It's all bullpucky.

Originally posted by babloyi
Hooray for selective misquoting and editing!

I don't believe they are "misinterpretations" at all, I believe that they haven't even been shown properly! It's akin to saying that someone said "All pianists should .... be killed" when they actually said "All pianists should strive for creativity and never allow it to be killed".


Certainly, Islam does not necessitate "turning the other cheek" (check out how well that worked in other religions), but that's hardly the same thing as claiming it promotes terrorism.

I concur what babloyi just posted, back when the verses were revealed, Islam was surrounded and became the number one threat to eliminate, so you will have to defend yourself and perhaps thats why you get all the fight until you have drove them out 'policy'.

-Naeem

Oh puh-lease.

Anyone with a bible at hand can do the same thing with Christianity. It's not the religion that's the problem, it's the extremists that twists those words to suit their own ideals and goals.

How many spin offs did the bible produce.. All because they didn't want to follow the letter of the law?

reply to post by SmedleyBurlap


You got sort of very confused there, didn't you ?


Were you attempting to match the calls to kill as contained in Muslim scripture with something vaguely similar in the Bible ?


But you couldn't manage it, obviously


So you were reduced to what we see above

and your claim that you'd suddenly grown 'tired'.

Which I assume actually means -- you failed in your mission


Nowhere in the New Testament does Christ (that's the basis of the word 'Christian' by the way) exhort anyone to kill non-believers

The only bit of violence you could find was from the Old Testament -- the jewish Bible as we know - which was written LONG before Christ was born

Originally posted by mayabong
Or are they extremist because of Israeli and us policies?

Islam was a mindless bloodthirsty mess way before the USA was even born.

To say their religion makes them this way is pretty ignorant.

To say that their religion has nothing to do with it is pretty ignorant.

Take a loooong look at the history of Islam. It was created by a mass murdering liar. It grew at the point of a blood soaked sword. It destroyed ancient and vibrant civilizations. It destroyed millions of lives through mass murder and slavery. It still does. I pity the women subjected to the misogynistic brutality of Islam. And those carrying this all out use that cult of theirs as an excuse .. as a reason .. to do it. :shk:

reply to post by SmedleyBurlap


What's your point? Surely your point is that many religious philosophies and teaching are immoral?

Unlike Christianity, Islam does not have any reformed denominations (Mormonism with many others) and definetly no central authority to condemn bad examples of religious practice.

Again, i can't see your point, evidence shows that Islamic cults are causing chaos and harm. By no means am i saying that this is the only cause, there are other socio-political factors, but this faith seems to be a motivator. This thread is not regarding Christianity.

Please everyone; if you feel it is a misinterpreation, provide evidence, educate our misunderstandings.

Remember that the peaceful passages do not make up for the despicable passages. If you wish to justify this faith as something good for society then please do not think that simply pointing to some "moral" passages will suffice.

reply to post by cenpuppie


reply to post by awake_and_aware


See my thoughts here. What do you think? Again - this is about Islam, not Christianity - I've written threads concerning other faith too.

reply to post by Dock9


Please, allow me a moment to respond.

Jesus did not abolish the Old Testament Law. It is all still in effect, by decree of Jesus. He did not need to tell people to murder others in the name of God. He needed only to tell them to maintain the laws that already directed them to murder the infidels.

Now, what, exactly, is so appealing about a prophet who encourages you to take absolutely no action to fulfill God's will? What is so appealing about a prophet who tells you to be a lazy layabout hippie protester, doing nothing to effect real change, but making people feel good about their useless, ineffective 'virtue'?

I can tell you straight up what is so appealing about Islam. Muhammad is a conquering saint. He is successful in his mission, of extending God's law across the Earth. He is successful in repelling in infidels of Yathrib and Arabia. He inspired generations of strong men who repel the waves of infidels. They constructed glorious, shining civilizations atop the ruins of Babylon. They built a massive, international system of peace. What did Jesus do? Comparatively little. He inspired a bunch of Gentiles to convert the emperors of Rome, and turn Christianity into a force for the extension of Caesar's unvirtuous, anti-Christian rule.



I can never, ever understand why critics of Islam never see this fundamental distinction in tone between the two religions. Maybe someone here can help me understand why they alternately fear/hate/envy Islam. Islam is a religion for winners. Christianity is a religion for losers. The one encourages further accomplishment of God's will through action, the other encourages the accomplishment of God's will through submission to Earthly authorities.

I am just trying to understand where the Will-To-Fear Islam comes from. I am genuinely baffled at the throngs of supposedly independent, strong-willed Americans who say that an emaciated failure of a Messiah is a better example of conduct than an independent, strong-willed success. Please, I do not accept answers like "bcuz violence bad >:C" when it is clear that this derives from Christian morals in the first place. I also do not accept answers like "Jesus is the savior that's why!" because it presumes that I accept Christianity. Can any anti-Islamists explain to me why Islam is so bad without resorting to ancient and worn-out Christian rhetoric?


p.s. this is not off topic. You may have already guessed it, but I am going to argue that terrorism is good.

reply to post by SmedleyBurlap


Like Dock9 said, this is not regarding Christianity. Making vague comparisons is of no help here. Please discuss the moral and ethical philosophies of Islam as the OP called for.

Thanks.

reply to post by awake_and_aware

I have posted this before.

The Quran is claimed to be a direct interaction of Muhammad and the divine intelligence in real time.

It is not a book like the Bible that was lopped together by Christian clergy over centuries and cobbled together from century old documents and then claimed as “the word of God”

No, the Quran is an interaction of the Universal intelligence with the few Muslims and Muhammad who started a revision of the ancient religion of Abraham that the Christians and Jews had perverted and distorted and fallen into error.

One reason for his appearance was to correct those errors, perversions, and distortions.

At that time when Muhammad started to teach the simple creed of monotheism he was violently attacked and persecuted by the authorities at that time who where those who believe that inanimate objects are divine, so-called Pagans.

In fact, they chased him out of Mecca on threat of death.

The Quran in the beginning didn’t allow the Muslims to retaliate. Eventually though the command to use violence on those who where attacking the Muslims was sent down through the divine intelligence to Muhammad in which he recorded as part of the Quranic verses.

Many of those versus are referring to pagans at the time [ 1400 years ago] who were attacking and murdering the followers of Muhammad.

THESE VERSUS ARE NOT REFFERING TO PEOPLE OF ALL TIME ONLY THOSE 1400 YEARS AGO WHO WERE ATTACKING MUHAMMAD AND HIS FOLLOWERS.

reply to post by inforeal

THESE VERSUS ARE NOT REFFERING TO PEOPLE OF ALL TIME ONLY THOSE 1400 YEARS AGO WHO WERE ATTACKING MUHAMMAD AND HIS FOLLOWERS.

Can you provide us with some correct verse and perhaps a source?

Thanks.

reply to post by FlyersFan


Ok so the crusades didn't happen, neither did the witch trials. Oh wait those weren't true Christians. Come on. I take it your a fox news watcher yeah?

reply to post by mayabong


I'm not aware of any Christians on religious crusades at the moment (U.S.A acting by secular means)

Not aware of any current news story where Christians are hunting witches.

Christianity has been reformed. Look at the average person in the U.K and U.S.A who states they have a religious faith - They never go to church though, they just vaguely believe in a God.

Christianity has many reformed denominations; many of them vastly improved in moral philosopy.

Islam encourages committment to that original scripture, to that original depiction of Allah; Islam has not reformed - there's no Mormonism, there's no Quakers, there's no Seventh-day Adventists.

Muslims believe in the merit of the original scriptures, that they havn't changed, that's stands in favour of it's truth. They commit themselves. The punishiment for apostasy in most theocratic states ruled by Islam is DEATH.

They take it that seriously. It's time for them to wake up from immaturity, from pride. Perhaps endevour for some understanding and humanism, perhaps not pressure their children in to religious social tradition.

reply to post by awake_and_aware


Lets not forget when bush said the wars were a crusade. Lets not forget the military is around 75 - 77 % Christian. Let's not forget the bible quotes that were found engraved on the weapons. Let's not forget, most of the people that spread islamophobia in the west are usually christians. It's a good tactic. Mubarak used the same tactic, on muslims themselves. It actually worked for a while.
Fear fear fear. Makes the masses easily submissive.

reply to post by awake_and_aware


Those versus where all revealed under conditions of war.
Under ordinary conditions Muslims are not allowed to do violence to anyone or anything

Your best bet is to get a Quran translated by Maulani Muhammad Ali and his commentary



Letter to the Monks of St. Catherine Monastery

A Letter from the Prophet Muhammad To The Assyrian Christians

mirnazim.wordpress.com...

“God has told me in a vision what to do, and I confirm His command by giving my solemn promise to keep this agreement.

To the followers of the Islam I say: Carry out my command, protect and help the Nazarene [ Christian] nation in this country of ours in their own land. Leave their places of worship in peace; help and assist their chief and their priests when in need of help, be it in the mountains, in the desert, on the sea, or at home. Leave all their possessions alone, be it houses or other property, do not destroy anything of their belongings, the followers of Islam shall not harm or molest any of this nation, because the Nazarenes are my subjects, pay tribute to me and will help the Muslims. No tribute, but what is agreed upon, shall be collected from them, their church buildings shall be left as they are, they shall not be altered, their priests shall be permitted to teach and worship in their own way-the Nazarenes have full liberty of worship in their churches and homes. None of their churches shall be torn down, or altered into a mosque, except by the consent and free will of the Nazarenes. If any one disobeys this command, the anger of God and His Prophet shall be upon him. “The tribute paid the Nazarenes shall be used to promote the teachings of Islam and shall be deposited at the treasury of Beth
Almal. A common man shall pay one denar (piece of money), but the merchants and people who own mines of gold and silver and are rich shall pay twelve denars. Strangers and people who have no houses or other settled property shall not have taxes levied upon them. If a man inherits property he shall pay a settled sum to the Baitulmal treasury. The Christians are not obliged to make war on the enemies of Islam, but if an enemy attacks the Christians, the Muslims shall not deny their help, but give them horses and weapons, if they need them, and protect them from evils from outside and keep the peace with them. The Christians are not obliged to turn Muslims, until God’s will makes them believers.

“The Muslims shall not force Christian women to accept Islam, but if they themselves wish to embrace it, the Muslims shall be kind to them.

“If a Christian woman is married to a Muslim and does not want to embrace Islam, she has liberty to worship at her own church according to her own religious belief, and her husband must not treat her unkindly on account of her religion. If any one disobeys this command, he disobeys God and his prophet and will be guilty of a great offense.

“If the Nazarenes wish to build a church, their Muslim neighbors shall help them. This shall be done, because the Christians have obeyed us and have come to us and pleaded for peace and mercy.

“If there be among the Christians a great and learned man the Muslims shall honor him and not be envious of his greatness.

“If any one is unjust and unkind to the Christians he will be guilty of disobeying the Prophet of God.

“The Christians should not shelter an enemy of Islam or give him horse, weapon or any other help. If a Muslim is in need the Christian shall for three days and nights be his host and shelter him from his enemies. The Christians shall, furthermore, protect the Mohammedan women and children and not deliver them up to the enemy or expose them to view. If the Nazarenes fail to fulfil these conditions, they have forfeited their right to protection, and the agreement is null and void.

“This document shall be entrusted to the Christian chief and head of their church for safe keeping.”
The peace of God be over them all! This agreement is written by Moavijah Ben Sofian, according to the dictates of Muhammad, the Messenger of God, in the 4th year of the Hegira in the city of Medina.

___________
Does that sound like someone who wants to murder Christians.
And the quran says:
Imagine this war written 1400 years ago!

Qur`an:: “And abuse not those whom they call upon besides
Allah, lest exceeding the limits, they abuse Allah through ignorance.
Thus to every people have We made their deeds fair-seeming; then to
their Lord is their return so he will inform them of what they did”
(6:109)
Qur’an: “Those who restrain their anger and pardon men. And Allah loves the doer of good (to others)” (3: 133)

reply to post by awake_and_aware


No, it’s not Islam that promotes terrorism, it’s a radical twisted literal interpretation of Islam that causes terrorism. Bit like a Christian talking “eye for an eye” a little bit too literally.

Also most scholars of the Qur’an would agree that for it to be correctly interpreted and understood it must be read in its native language, Arabic. So anyone could very easily criticize what you have said because you’re reading a interpretation rather than the original test. It’s a easy blow I know, and some of you will say it’s just a easy way for me to get around these comments but its true.

The truth is any religious book can be used to justify violence if it is in the wrong hands, the movie the book of Eli is a fantastic illustration of this (and a rather good movie I thought). If you’re going to call a book of religion evil because it facilitates terrorism and as such should be suppressed then I am going to argue that because a gun facilitates the death of one’s fellow man it is inherently evil also and thus your right to own an firearm should be suppressed. If I use your same argument but turn it on to you Americans I bet your all going to get really pissed off with me for it, so I don’t think you have the “right” to do the same to your fellow man, just because they hold a different set of beliefs.