Muslims want children excused from music, mixed phys-ed classes

My family has been in this country for centuries, and we don't mind if Muslims don't want their kids to go to music or mixed-gender phys ed classes. If you don't like that, then I invite you to go back to Europe!

What david cameron said is simple. If the islamist population intends on removing its extremist elements then everything is ok, but so far it hasn't and until it does everything is not ok. The extremist elements produce terrorism and the last thing you want is Al-Qaeda in your back yard.

Originally posted by Sherlock Holmes
What on earth has the fact that they're Muslim got to do with anything ?

This is a case of some parents, for one reason or another, complaining about having their children forced to being taught something that they don't agree with or that they don't want their children to take part in.

It's amazing when so many people pull out the ''freedom'' or ''government intrusion'' card when it suits them, they apparently ignore the fact that these parents are objecting to the State forcing their children to learn something that they do not wish to.

out of religious reasons.
Adapt or leave.
If I had kids, I wouldn't want them to learn about religion because it offends me that they would even give a single word about the mass delusion instituted around the world, but they will...I would just be the one trying to give them perspective when they got home.

Canada doesn't want to go the way of the middle east or america..they want intelligent kids.

Originally posted by jonnywhite
What david cameron said is simple. If the islamist population intends on removing its extremist elements then everything is ok, but so far it hasn't and until it does everything is not ok. The extremist elements produce terrorism and the last thing you want is Al-Qaeda in your back yard.

edit on 6-2-2011 by jonnywhite because: (no reason given)

edit on 6-2-2011 by jonnywhite because: (no reason given)

Actually, its deeper than that. all religions need to remove the radical elements...radical anything is never a good thing for greater society when we are talking structured delusions

I mean religion...sorry, I keep getting those two mixed up

Incidently, in this case, radical christianity has toned down quite a bit since the 17th century. It is still there mind you, but its highly unpopular and the greater christian community took matters into their own hand, casting out such types.
if islam wants to be a grown up religion, the moderates need to become radical moderates and supress/kill off their extremist retoric. Welcome to the 21st century...or rather in their case, welcome to "its no longer the 17th century!"

I don`t see any problem with their request... If I was the PM of canada, I`d simply have them deported to a country ruled by a Muslim dictator. Then things like p.e. and music will be outlawed, so, problem solved right? Oh but they want to enjoy all the other freedoms but they just wanna pick and choose and have the entire country make special rules for them regarding something as basic and at the core of western culture as p.e. and music? I`d say that`s fine, too, but... They should just home school their kids like any other person who doesn`t like what public schools have to offer.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

Originally posted by SmedleyBurlap
My family has been in this country for centuries, and we don't mind if Muslims don't want their kids to go to music or mixed-gender phys ed classes. If you don't like that, then I invite you to go back to Europe!

That is one of the most childish and ill-thought out responses I have read on this thread...really!!!

Or are you saying that you're Inuit, and you want all immigrants to leave, unless they adhere to your beliefs of how people should think...

What about the people in Canada that came before your ancestors? What if they disagree with you? You're then the one with the new ideas, perhaps you should leave!

And yet still you totally ignore all of the relevant points in the argument to maintain an air of "omg I'm so pc, I just love everyone... and they can all do, say and think what they want" Unless of course they happen to think you're wrong at which point you change your tune somewhat, and you're then telling them to get out of your country!

What a hypocrite...

....Ok so the subjects are required even in home school. Then I guess my 1st answer was what I`ll go with. If you don`t like the country, you can always go to one ruled by muslim laws, but I have a feeling they`ve probably got a little used to things like freedom and all that weird stuff... they are just having a little trouble making the transition. "this freedom...it feels... so... Good, yet, sooooo naughty! what do we do?!?" "calm down muhammad! we can still enjoy our cable tv and pizza delivery without punishment from allah... i have a plan. we will make up for enjoying all this freedom by making a big stink with the school system and allah will be thankful and forgive us!" "yes you are a genius! now lets go celebrate by going outside wearing nothing but a pair of shorts and a t shirt!" "oh muhammad...you are soooo bad!"


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

Wow…. I don’t even know where to begin. Wait!! I’ve got an idea… how about we put them in ‘special schools’ and take away language, culture, and force a different religion on them? It worked out so well for my Native people….

Or better yet. We could stick them all in camps that way we could be SURE they aren’t up to know good!

Hmm sound familiar? This is how hate is born.. Fear of the unknown….

How many of you really know a Muslim? Have you ever been in the company of one? Do you have Muslim friends? I suggest you go out and make friends with some. You might be surprised.

It’s child abuse? *laughs* No proper exercise? Brains won’t develop properly.? When was the last time you saw an obese Muslim child or adult for that matter? We could learn a few things from them.

Come on!!!

As others have pointed out there are exceptions for all races, all religions. This is Canada. We are a nation of people from all different backgrounds. We are supposed to be this beautiful place with the freedom to speak, live and….. *shakes head*

As for those saying “Don’t like it, go back to your own country…” I write in a deeply sarcastic tone.

Everyone in Canada AND America are immigrants. Every single one!!! (Even if you are 26th generation!) So I guess that just leaves… my people and me right? So please if you don’t like others coming here, with their traditions, religions and customs. Feel free to leave…

For shame folks…

reply to post by destination now


No, I do not have children in the Canadian school system. However, if our federally unfunded mandate of NoChildLeftBehind starts (shockingly) to create standardized testing for music and P.E., I would be totally taken aback. I mean, the fact that music has been so underfunded in the US and then the lunacy of NCLB and privatization of most low income schools (charter schools)...with all of that, to think that music and PE would have standardized tests as well is laughable.

While I acknowledge that lower ed is not the same as the university system, where education is more personalized, there is still variety in class types. At the elementary school level, clearly whole classes typically shuffle around to this or that discipline (science, art, music, PE and so forth).

If we are going to split hairs that this is disturbing or distracting to the other children, then I would say here in the US would we first have to look at our incredibly screwed up process of bilingual education. Talk about distracting to the students.

Pull out (where the non-native English speakers are taken out of their regular classes and put into ESL or occasionally ESE [Special ed]), push in (where the non-native speakers are forced into mainstream classes when perhaps they need more instruction in the language) and all of our other ways of dealing with non-English speakers are incredibly costly and incorrectly implemented.

I am not a school teacher, but because of my course work for my degree in linguistics, I am also getting certification in teaching English as a second language. I have two years experience teaching EFL and 3 years experience teaching language classes. Most of my colleagues who have attended the various ESL cert classes I have had to take have told me that they are basically pressed to do more than possible to meet the NCLB requirements here in Florida. They are overwhelmed and ONLY teach to the exam.

This is perhaps the worst when we are considering that critical thinking is going out the window in place of rote learning (like a corporatist madrasa).

So, why get up in arms about a couple of families that want their children to not attend certain classes? I think there are bigger fish to fry and in the end, I would almost hope that we at some point attain an educational system that does allow parents a little more control over their children's curricula and the children themselves be allowed to follow their interests a little more. Not everybody is going to become an engineer nor will everyone become a musician. These subjects can be enriching, but rushing through and giving the kids minimally topical information on music, art, math and science seems like a waste of time.

reply to post by Kalithe

When was the last time you saw an obese Muslim child or adult for that matter?

What? Are your really being serious? Have you been in the UK recently? I think it is your experience of "muslims" that is extremely limited? How naive...do you really think that none of them are obese...good grief this post is actually competing with the other "liberal Canadian's" in terms of mind numbing lack of real knowledge and beliefs in stereotypes..

Ok here's a pic of the UK extrememist muslim pin up boy Abu "hook" Hamza...lovely chap, you should invite him into your home...Oh that's right he wouldn't come, he thinks that you and your family are dogs and should die...

Abu Hamza Picture

reply to post by Kalithe




Yes as you say everybody in Canada and America are immigrants..........BUT..............

The point is it is not one of them want to be accomadated with privaliges regarding

schooling and cariculum's. It is the newcomers who want to alter the systems to suit

themselves, and make changes to what has previously been satisfactory to all.

If it aint broke don't fix it!!

Originally posted by phatpackage
reply to post by mobiusmale

 

Exactly right! They should be made to everything the other kids are made to do!. To all the "Bleeding heart" Muslim supporters that defend this rubbish I call you all out to justify this! A we have seen by recent comments by the British Government! Time is up! As we say here "Love us or leave us!"

I have ALWAYS tried diligently to support people as individuals, to value their beliefs, and accept them. This is literally my world view that all people, and their beliefs, are valuable and should be allowed, accepted and cherished. HOWEVER... this thing is going too far!

Music has been around likely since before language and mathematics! For a religion to suppress something so basic as music it is truly a threat to human rights. I have argued with myself for years over supporting Muslim individuals as "individuals" but when a religion dictates so strongly something so assinine as to suppress music, it needs to be fought against. As of today I have changed my support for Islam and will simply go ahead and be against it. I will still strive to value all people as individuals, but if ones religion stops them from BEING an individual, then my support stops.

For me I could care less about what courses they don't wanna take. For me it's the general concept of people coming to our country, intent on a better life because of the way our country is, they came here because of how we are, yet want to change our system upon being here. You wanna come to Canada and be a "Canadian" then come here and enjoy the priveldges we have. You wanna come here and change they way we have been for a hundred or so years. They take your ideals right back to your own damn country, this bleeding heart PC bu ll sh it is getting out of control, and if not stopped now I feel our country will only be a shell of its fomer self in just a short period of time. Sad sad time to be a Canadian when your country appeases all the new comers to keep the new vote, and shuns the rest of us actual Canadians, and grants the wishes of the minority......

reply to post by Violater1


I am American/Iranian and I have told my own relatives this exact same thing, if you think the rules are better in Iran why do you live here in the US...its easy GO BACK...

hmmmm I dont get invited to many family events anymore... : )

Once again. If we go to a muslim country and make demands like that we'd be thrown out. What Canada, and all other countries do is eventually bow to their demands.

There is a simple solution, "Welcome, here are our rules for living in our country, if you don't like them, there is the airport and it's open 24/7!"

Originally posted by SaturnFX
out of religious reasons.

The religious aspect is irrelevant.

The parents have made a request for their children to sit out a couple of mandatory classes.

It can't possibly make a difference whether this request is down to religious, non-religious, or unspecified reasons.

The fact that, in this case, it's for religious and cultural reasons and that the parents are apparently Muslim are the only realistic reason why people are making such a big issue out of this.

Originally posted by SaturnFX
Adapt or leave.

They've made a request for their children to be excused some mandatory classes. Are you saying they should leave for making this request ?

They have every right to do this, just as Canadian born citizens do.

It's no big deal; they've made a request, and it's up to the education authorities whether that request is accepted or not.

Why are people getting so upset at some people exercising their rights ?

In this instance, we all know the answer to that one...

Originally posted by SaturnFX
If I had kids, I wouldn't want them to learn about religion because it offends me that they would even give a single word about the mass delusion instituted around the world, but they will...I would just be the one trying to give them perspective when they got home.

If you feel that way, then I think it would be perfectly acceptable for you to make a similar request to school authorities, asking them to let your children sit out RE classes.

Seems perfectly fair to me, and once again, would be down to the school authorities as to whether they would accept your request or not.

Everyone seems to be saying remove the exremeist element. You fail to undertsand, that the etxremeist movement cannot exist in a coutnry where Islam is not accepted as normal. If a Muslim population grow to a point they have politicsal influence, 'then' the extremeist element has a foothold.

The danger is not the extremists, they are easy to sopt. The real danger is somewhat in your face now and it grows and grows with large familes ready to exert it's influence on your children in 20-30 years.

Christians did it 200 years ago but most people eventually ignored it as the generations continued and it dwindled quite a bit. Mind you, Christian practice was voluntary and no human penalties came about if you left the church. But with Islam, once it takes hold of those countries stupid enough not to see whats happening, your children won't be able to make a 'free' choice without some physical harm or even death. If you think I'm kidding, go and actually see for yourself what happens in countries where Islamthat has the ultimate control.

Originally posted by pinchanze
They are not being forced! It is the curriculum set up by the Canadian educational system.

Of course they're being forced, if they can't opt-out of these classes.

It's incredible on a site like ATS, where so many people profess to believe in ''personal freedom'' so many would apparently rather the governmental authorities dictate what has to be taught to people's children, and, at the same time, condemn a parent for attempting to gain some individual control over what is, and what isn't, taught to their own children.


I guess when the story involves Muslims, all these alleged ''principles'' get put to one side.

Erm, the aforementioned families don't at all expect the Canadian schools to conform to their beliefs, they merely asked if their children could be excused from a few classes. Plus, most Muslims listen to music quite comfortably - Yusuf Islam has even resumed recording with actual instruments rather than merely with vocal harmonisations. This is quite clearly, once again, an example of the media and individuals using fundamentalists, who have misinterpreted the religion, as an excuse to generalise and lash out at Muslims - as well as try to further damage their reputation. Well done.

reply to post by destination now


This is really one of the most childish responses on this thread? Did you miss this one?

Love us or leave us!

Or this one?

If they don't like what we have here in America, they can get the *snip* out.

Or this one?

if you don't like it then don't move.

Or this one?

If they cannot live in Canada due to their religion then there are plenty of Muslim countries where they can take their highly valuable skills.

But, none of them disagreed with you, so you had no reason to criticize them, did you.

Yes, my family has been here for centuries. My argument is just as legitimate as theirs, but has greater credibility. They want the most recent immigrants evicted or assimilated by force - we want the last few centuries of immigrants to be evicted or assimilated by force. I demand that they suit my cultural norms.

My way is the humanist, universal way. If they want to maintain their small-minded xenophobia, then they can do it somewhere else.

edit: how did I miss this one just above your post

I don`t see any problem with their request... If I was the PM of canada, I`d simply have them deported to a country ruled by a Muslim dictator.