Muslims want children excused from music, mixed phys-ed classes

Originally posted by korathin
Islam is a religion of the Sword. That is very relevant. I suggest people look up what happened to the Byzantine Christians when they made the mistake of trusting the Islamic Turks.

Same thing that happened to the Jerusalemite Jews when they trusted the Byzantine Christians?
Same thing that happened to the Ammonites when they trusted the Israelite Jews?

Same faeces, somewhat-slightly-kinda-almost-in-a-way-mildly-different book.

reply to post by mobiusmale


Not surprising. This is just another attempt to push the envelope in getting Western cultures to cave into these nonsensical demands. I wonder why they just don't carry signs that say "Hey, we're here in your country because the country we came from is a stone-age wasteland. We hate you and your country, but it is not a stone-age wastland. Just leave us alone and let us suck out of this country we hate everything we can"

I'm ignorant regarding Canadian law, but I believe in the States this would not fly. There are no restrictions on music nor atheletics in the Koran. As a consequence, allowing them to not take the class would require them to allow anyone who wished to not take it. Otherwise it violates equal treatment under the law.

I hope the Canadians hold their ground here and when these kids show up at music class they drive into "Onward Christian Soldiers" and top that off with a "Three little piggies go to market" put to verse.

reply to post by andrewh7


The article says the subjects are compulsory for all. Therefore I presume you cannot opt out of them, even in private school or if homeschooling. My sister was homeschooled and we had to teach her musical education too, because its in the national curriculum as a compulsory subject (at least the first 2 years), like maths or biology.

Is the claim in the article wrong?

I just would like to point out that most of the people on the seven pages of this thread, would all be clawing their faces in righteous indignation if their schools forced their kids to learn music.
"Big government!"
"Indoctrination!"
"I'll be the one to decide what my kid learns!"
"You're wasting my tax dollars so some hobo's child can play a flute?!?!?!"

And they are, of course, ignoring this from the article:

However, a local Muslim leader says there is no reason for young kids to be held out of music or phys-ed classes based on religious and cultural grounds.

"Who is advising them? My first concern would be who are these new immigrants talking to?" said Shahina Siddiqui, executive director of the Islamic Social Services. "This is the first time I am hearing this; I'm not very happy about it."

All this is of course, drowned out by seven pages of "OOOOO MUSLIMS WOOOO SCARY SCARY MUSLIMS ISLAM BOOGABOOGABOOGA!"

reply to post by TheWalkingFox

All this is of course, drowned out by seven pages of "OOOOO MUSLIMS WOOOO SCARY SCARY MUSLIMS ISLAM BOOGABOOGABOOGA!"

That's pretty clever and catchy...but if you set it to music there are at least a dozen families who would think your comments (in support of them) would be inappropriate. And I won't even take the time here to link you to the places in Islam's holy texts that support this loony world view (about music)...trust me it is there.

It is gratifying, of course, to actually hear a "Muslim leader" that stands up for common sense, but that does not subtract from the point of the source article...or this thread. A group of Muslim parents (and just watch their numbers grow) have made these claims/requests/demands based on their Muslim faith.

While we are joking about "wooo scary Muslims", why not try the following little experiment Mr. Fox?

1) Draw a little cartoon of the Prophet Mohammed as...I don't know...some kind of Superman figure, who is sent here to save the world.
2) Publish that cartoon here on ATS...or a website, or a newspaper of your choice...with a supportive caption like, "I am your Prophet, and I am here to save you from the evil music and physical education of the Canadian infidels. My word is the law."
3) Be sure to publish your full name, complete residential address, a recent photo of yourself (to be sure everyone knows for sure who to thank for your efforts on behalf of Islam).

Then just sit back and wait for your reward from your friends...it could take the form of a bullet, a sharp blade, an IED...

BOOGABOOGABOOGA!

Sorry if i havent read through all the pages, i id get a sense of the above quote in most of the posts lol ^ BOOGABOOGABOOGA haha.

But yeah on a serious note, to explain muslims view on music, let me give you an example of how nearly ALL the children today are influenced by music.

My nephews n nieces all and ive noticed many children absolutely infected by Lady Gaga, Rihanna, Niki Minaj music. And im sure EVERYONE will agree that pop music today is immoral, the kind of music videos and stuff they show before late hours is staggering.

The performances with girls thrusting their crotches, whining it down wearing nothing but 2 piece suits before 7pm on shows like x factor and all the rest of it. And im not even montionaing the catchy, immoral sexual lyrics either.

Look at how the industry recruits the next music idols, The timberlakes aguileras britney spears, they are all recruited froms such an early age. Not to even mention MK ultra and monarch programming.

If you guys dont realise the potential of music > immorality then you are are asleep.

Ok for those that are saying whats wrong with kids learning simple instruments etc, i can understand some stuff may be a minor, but when kid is in such a young age, they do not know right from wrong, they will not know the different between good or bad music, and will tend to like anything catchy.

Its the early prevention the muslims want to adhere to, so that the children wont grow up to become infatuated like most kids are with these ridiculous idols of pop culture.

There has been a rise in kids getting younger, being models wearing high heels etc. all spoiling the innocence of youth. Every action has a reaction and early prevention is better. Once they grow up to understand how music influences things, and they have developed an understanding of visual imagery in pop culture, morals, etc then they can figure out whats right or wrong for themselves.

As for the physical education part, i think that is more a case of body parts being shown, uniforms etc. I dont see that being much of an issue apart from what body parts are visible in relation to the requirements of Islamic teaching. And the mixing of boys n girls in phy-ed lessons too especially in later grades/years might promote promiscuity etc. Hell from my experience i know i used to love cattin girls up during them lessons.

As for muslims requesting to allow kids to skip music ad physical education classes,i dont see how that is such a big thing. Even if they were put into these lessons, muslims would hardly care if their children pass or fail these subjects, these subjects wont at all hinder their further eduction in the future anyway.

reply to post by TheWalkingFox
.

I just would like to point out that most of the people on the seven pages of this thread, would all be clawing their faces in righteous indignation if their schools forced their kids to learn music.

That's the whole point...our schools do force children to learn music, and take part in physical education and all of the other subjects in the curriculum, no one is exempt!

What people want to then go and do in their own homes is their own business, and if the children have no interest in music or other subjects, then they do not have to participate outwith the education system

My daughter is a vegan, has been for 4 yrs, she was forced to take compulsory Home economics and handle meat, dairy and egg products. It made her feel physically sick and I did not like the fact that it upset her. However, becoming a vegan was her choice and we both realised that she cannot expect to be exempt from a compulsory subject because of the choice she made, that would create chaos in the school system because if one person is exempt because of their choices and beliefs, then everyone is entitled to pick and choose what they want to do, and I'm sorry, but that just cannot work. She dropped the subject as soon as she could, and did not experience any long term issues or alterations to her beliefs and choices by being made to study the subject for two years.

So what's the problem with being forced to participate in the entire school curriculum?

In my opinion, a lot of this boils down to RESPECT. For people to go to another country and immediately begin making demands on how they want and EXPECT to be treated is 100% disrespectful as well as belligerent.

Somebody really needs to teach these people some modern era RESPECT so they might stand a chance of pulling their heads out of their stone age butts. It's getting ridiculous.


If you flee your country on your own free will, what in the hell gives you the right to think that you can make demands in the country you fled to, which ALLOWED you to flee there to begin with?


I'll say it again: No respect, because they were never taught to respect anything or anyone else other then people of their religion who share the same beliefs.

reply to post by mobiusmale


I do wish these families would grow up..... either that or go back to where your beliefs are more recognized!!!

As others have said 'its the same in the UK'..... wanting things to suit their benefit only..... not integrating into a Society which is 100's years ahead of where they came from...

reply to post by nastyj


I would not dispute much of what you have said here about the state of the Pop Music culture. However, I doubt that elementary school students are being instructed how to do pelvic thrusts, or to the pros and cons of dancing in thongs versus evening gowns.

There is, I think, a big difference between Rap and Mozart. Music itself cannot be damned.

If there is an issue with the morality of the form(s) of music being taught within the curriculum then, it ought to be brought up at Board of Education level - and the resulting decisions should apply to all students - not just the Muslim ones.

reply to post by nastyj


I hope children are not asked to listen to Lady GaGa music during their music lessons ) . As a child I was told how to read musical notes than we went quite a bit into classical masterpieces. I did not learn how to play an instrument, but we did learn notes and we were cultivated with love for the classics. Even now, beside my Drum and Bass, my Dubstep favorite, i go again and again to listen to some great classics.

Another issue I covered on another post - music on early stages of childhood it is proven to improve memory, logic, critical thinking and overall increase IQ. Also gym (when not excessive) is known to improve child cognitive development. This is why I believe that a religious family denying music and gym to their kids, are abusing the child. Anyway , my opinion!

reply to post by mobiusmale


I know what your are trying to say, but lets be real here, in this day and age no kids dream is to become a professional musician to the likes of mozart, you are talking about muslims bein so backwards 100 years ago, well mozart isnt exactly the current trend in music.

Most kids listen to music not just for the music, but the lifestyle it brings, kids wana live the celebrity party lifestyle, sex drugs n rock n roll for the rockers, thug life for the hip hoppers etc etc.
I dont want to put all youths in this category but what im trying to say is that let them grow up to see how that lifestyle will lead them.

Though it is inevitable they will want to go into these lifestyle, i dont know how old you guys are but i know the state of universities these days. Kids do not have boundaries, or morals at all. They do not know where to border the line in terms of what is right or wrong. Everything is about how cool stuff is, and the media etc make this party life etc more attractive with no care for the detrimental effects it has on the mind or society.

You seem to think that we are living in such a modern utopia of great thinking because of all the advancements in technology etc, but the in terms of the mass public or people, the past was a vey much more developed place in thinking etc. And im not talkin only about the Islamic world, in the roman, greek, renaissance, the further back you go the better the philosophy and thinking was.

But in todays society, its ok to become a popstar, its ok to become models, or videogirls, pimps or pornstars, gangsters so long as you make the money.

Yet the real celebrities that should be, like teachers, doctors, scientists, true artists, lawyers, these guys arent being promoted, these guys arent making the money, these smart guys are the ones that are being recruited by TPTB for their agendas...

But no wait, muzzies are all wrong, they are backward cavemen, who knows how the bloodthirsty barbarians of the islamic empire managed to advance technology and thinking, they mustve made it all up and got lucky the old bearded donuts, we are all lucky the knight in shining armor the crusaders came and destroyed em, took their knowledge, burnt what universities were left and establish the amazing renaissance to take europe out of the dark ages, they are the true heroes right?

Originally posted by Romanian
reply to post by nastyj

 

I hope children are not asked to listen to Lady GaGa music during their music lessons

) . As a child I was told how to read musical notes than we went quite a bit into classical masterpieces. I did not learn how to play an instrument, but we did learn notes and we were cultivated with love for the classics. Even now, beside my Drum and Bass, my Dubstep favorite, i go again and again to listen to some great classics.

Another issue I covered on another post - music on early stages of childhood it is proven to improve memory, logic, critical thinking and overall increase IQ. Also gym (when not excessive) is known to improve child cognitive development. This is why I believe that a religious family denying music and gym to their kids, are abusing the child. Anyway , my opinion!

edit on 6-2-2011 by Romanian because: (no reason given)

Hey man, yeah i been getting into dubstep recently aswell bro, i got some awesome new wireless headphones right and the beats sound insane on it, though im quite new to dubstep, i listen to the more mainstream kind but its still pretty awesome

Yeah you bring a lotta good points mate, music does prove to help child cognitive development and physical development from phy-ed.

But you have to look beyond some of these things aswell, education plays a much much bigger system than simply learning. It is a place of indoctrination, through very covert and subtle means. The same way the west think muslim boarding schools thing islamic teaching, mosques madrassahs are indoctrination.

Put it this way, there are many thing that can help develop childrens cognitive development many different ways, listening to lady gaga etc might improve cognitive thinking, cheerleading, belly dancing, pole dancing may increase physical development aswell, and they will definitely develop social skills during them both aswell.
But you have to question yourself if thats the best way to pick up these attributes in learning.

Gaming, in some ways can develop cognitive thinking greatly, martial arts, etc can all increase the physical aspect aswell.

Let me give you another point of view, im not saying music is bad at all, some music mozart etc as some guys mentioned can have much benefits, but the IMPORTANT thing to remember is that MAINSTREAM MEDIA and everything associated with it PROMOTE all the dirt we see in pop culture today, if they promoted things that were actually beneficial, in morals learning and physical/mental health. Then im DEFINATE that kids wont be tempted to fall into those traps of pop culture, but however society is not a wonderful place, that is why Islam has measures to prevent you from falling into something that might b hazardous to you in THE LONG TERM.

Do not forget TPTB they think in the LONG TERM aswell, but their plas are never beneficial for the mass public, only for THEIR agendas, however religion is FOR the mass public and has no place for capitalist elitest view, except zionism ofcourse lol < which is TPTB.

Ill leave you with Albert Einsteins quote:

'The only thing that obstructs my LEARNING, is my EDUCATION'

EDIT: im sorry about my grammar, i hope you understand what im trying to say without these grammatical errors lol

Great points , star to you . I am now aware of the Canadian system of education - what are they teaching during the music classes. If the curriculum is seen as immoral, I would see the need of changing it rather than denying it all together! I am not a psychologist or child development expert, however i did go into the issue of education, and specifically for Eastern Europe I see the need for change. Do we need to create citizens with a certain pattern of thinking that is "cloning" what we are as parents, or we want to develop the abilities and capabilities of our kids? I fear that most of the time, parents want to "clone themselves" and on the other side, governments want to create obedient citizens . None of the two will benefit the child on long term.
Going back to the subject - what do you know about the music lessons thought in the Canadian schools, what would you change so that the child CAN enjoy the opportunity for full brain development? I would personally agree with Martial Arts and Classical Music .

O, just edited to add a link:
skyview.vansd.org...

"The Nine Types of Intelligence" - how would you ensure that every child will have a fear chance to develop in all the 9 areas?

This is child abuse on the part of the parents.

The right way to go about things is for the parents to research the schools BEFORE they move to the school district. Then they can either work with the school before their kids are enrolled, or choose another school district that will accomodate them.

The way they have done things, the kids have been put into the spotlight of public scrutiny and scorn. Child abuse.

Intentional child abuse, btw.

I'd have to let them know just how I felt about their stupidity and indifference to the society they need to integrate into. That would come with a large foot in their behind to be kind. But there seems to be larger issues behind their collective decision. These people are trying to FORCE US into slaves and submit to their ways. Well, this Southern man will tell people like that go to hell. I feel that the local school board should not capitulate on ANY issues they bring before the council. They along with others, are trying to bring this great country to her knees, and it will not work. Those forces are coming from within so people here need to just look around and take action now or it will be to late IMHO.

So.... If they are allowed to be excused from those classes, will hardcore christian kids be excused from science class?

Originally posted by Sherlock Holmes
What on earth has the fact that they're Muslim got to do with anything ?

This is a case of some parents, for one reason or another, complaining about having their children forced to being taught something that they don't agree with or that they don't want their children to take part in.

It's amazing when so many people pull out the ''freedom'' or ''government intrusion'' card when it suits them, they apparently ignore the fact that these parents are objecting to the State forcing their children to learn something that they do not wish to.

They are not being forced! It is the curriculum set up by the Canadian educational system. What is this "for one reason or another"? Do you live in a circus tent and play with the clowns all day? You will definitely get to go to the re-education camp thinking like that. You will be a star student. LOL

reply to post by mobiusmale


I do not understand why this is tolerated. This is the way i look at it lest for here in the USA. If that school system is not good enough for them then make a school that suits them? have THEM make/pay for the school. here in the states they pulled church out of school. no big deal if you want your kids to attend church and teachings you send them to a Christian school. if thats not good enough there is home schooling, not sure if Canada does this? i think they do just not sure. when you move to another country you are a guest in there house. just because you are in the house does not give you the right to change it to your needs. if you dont like it, dont come here its that simple.

reply to post by mobiusmale


Screw 'em. You move to a country and dont want to integrate? Then you don't belong there, and it's tantamount to an invasion.

If you wish to immigrate, then you better be ready to integrate.