Muslims DON'T DESERVE Democracy, Unless They're Iraqi Or Afghans!! (logic = fail)

The west had no right to judge when we have porn stars, that are married, committing adultery on film. Of course they are already stoned so does that make it ok? Not sure I get where you draw the line on what is acceptable.

The west kills the innocent in the name of progress and freedom. The empire has killed more than helped in every war and has no right to judge any other nation.

Originally posted by zroth

The west kills the innocent in the name of progress and freedom. The empire has killed more than helped in every war and has no right to judge any other nation.

Yet, you, as an individual, feel that you have the right to judge a country.

If you can judge a country, why can't other countries judge as well? You are so against western culture, yet everything you have is brought about by western culture.

Hypocritical, much?

Originally posted by beezzer

Originally posted by zroth

The west kills the innocent in the name of progress and freedom. The empire has killed more than helped in every war and has no right to judge any other nation.

Yet, you, as an individual, feel that you have the right to judge a country.

If you can judge a country, why can't other countries judge as well? You are so against western culture, yet everything you have is brought about by western culture.

Hypocritical, much?

Are you high?

Since when is stating facts judging?

When did I say I was against western culture? I merely state observations I have made while living there.

You sure took some liberties in your false assumptions. Since when is "the empire" a country anyways?

judge  
noun, verb, judged, judg·ing. –noun
1. a public officer authorized to hear and decide cases in a court of law; a magistrate charged with the administration of justice.
2. a person appointed to decide in any competition, contest, or matter at issue; authorized arbiter:

reply to post by zroth


What facts? Opinions, and biased ones at that, perhaps, but no facts.
But hey, bash away! America the evil, greedy greed-head place, the terrible country

Originally posted by beezzer
reply to post by zroth

 

What facts? Opinions, and biased ones at that, perhaps, but no facts.
But hey, bash away! America the evil, greedy greed-head place, the terrible country

Here you go sport:

Death by war

And learn to read. You are assuming one nation by what I wrote. Clearly I wrote the entire west and the empire. Dont let your guilt put that all on one nation.

reply to post by zroth

Neato-keen captain!
I guess we can't judge any other country. We should just bomb the snot out of any country that tries to attack us. I mean, that'll take much of the guess-work out of it. Keep foreign relations simple enough. Let's not try to change some of their more barbaric practices.

Just shewt 'em!

I find it funny how we find "evidence" to justify our statements of hate and ignorance. It is clear that we as humans do not have the capability to set aside political indifference when we pass judgment on other cultures and religions.

Islam has its issues. Sure some Islamic people think we should stone people for their deeds, but have you ever read the Old Testement? It talk abouts the same violent acts being acceptable means of punishment.

Can we all agree that Christianity has it's outrageous nutjobs within the religion the same as Islam? Any religion for that matter! This is more about politics and the half-truths spewed out by people who have an agenda to fulfill.

Even if Islam was as radical as some may portay it, we would have nothing to worry about if we left them to their own lives, lived ours, and kept out of their business.

On a final note: The PEW polls are not completely unbaised. They have an agenda as well. Always remember, you can make the numbers say anything!

Originally posted by beezzer
reply to post by zroth

 

Neato-keen captain!
I guess we can't judge any other country. We should just bomb the snot out of any country that tries to attack us. I mean, that'll take much of the guess-work out of it. Keep foreign relations simple enough. Let's not try to change some of their more barbaric practices.

Just shewt 'em!

It is weird. You are writing English but it is like a foreign language. I am not writing in code but your translation is strange.

What is your point here?

The OP is pointing out the hypocrisy of Islamic nations not being afforded a desire to be democratic. Democracy is a political philosophy not a theology.

The west, as a culture (not a country for the fourth time), gives freedom to the secular world that Islamic, Christian and Jews do not believe are acceptable according to their doctrine.

You come in ranting about God knows what.

If I make an assumption, I assume that you are proud of your nation. Awesome! Does that change anything discussed here?

Pride comes before the fall. If a society wants to stand as the model for global civilization it needs to at least acknowledge its down sides and strive to improve for the betterment of the global population.

Consumer materialism, base desire fulfillment, murder and rape as television entertainment, foreign occupation for slave labor, corrupt law enforcement, corrupt politicians, etc; are ruining the world.

So boil it down for me. What is your point? How have I offended you?

Originally posted by JohhnyBGood
Here is why muslims don't deserve - or rather are incapable of democracy! - Islam is a savage, brutal, backward, inhuman and thoroughly evil ideology worse by far than nazism, or communism -that is why brutal corrupt dictators are needed to keep them in line.

To people that are casual and don't know squat yet rant, I spent time in Egypt. Me, the person posting this message spent time there. Something that took me by surprise was the people I had met. They were not beheading their neighbors and passing casual judgment. They were the "kindest" people I have ever met in my life. Gentle, giving, loving to one another. I also met some of their military and carried on a few conversations with them. The military were less kind. Then there was the government folks. Far less kind. But the people I had met impressed upon me the intent of God. To be the best of things to even strangers.

Now let me tell you of a place where evil, greed, casual judgment, depravity is the norm. No wait, to you it is heaven on earth.

Do not parrot things people tell you for the sake of acceptance. Be objective and seek out truths instead of subjective and an emotional pariah through the absence of intellect. Eventually we all return to God, Allah, whatever you so choose to call it. There we will discover the truth of what we chose to do and become in life. In your heart is written the truths of life. I met many people in Egypt that knew this. They are extremely in the land of supposed freedoms.

reply to post by JohhnyBGood


You are an arrogant, undeducated pig! I have studied Islam in world religions and they are basically the same as christianity...the main difference being Mohammed is their prophet while Jesus is the prophet for christianity..Islam preaches peace and love to one another and it does not say that if you kill someone in the name of allah you go to heaven...It strongly states the opposite. Where you get the idea that islam is a savage and brutal religion is a joke. There are extremists that follow a certain kind of islam but it is not the one that the HUGE majority of muslims follow. If you knew any first hand you would know. Islam preaches the SAME principles that christians preach. They believe their prophet to be a regular person with human blood instead of jesus who is said to have divine blood. They actually believe in jesus but they believe he wasn't divine. For you to actually propose they don't deserve democracy is sick and twisted in my brain and it makes me wonder who the heck raised you. I'll leave it at that as there are plenty of other things i'd like to say to you but will refrain from doing so

reply to post by Canadianpride420



You really ought to try and educate yourself about what Islam really is - and not the pablum that is palmed off to Western idiots.


www.faithfreedom.org...

By now any sane human being of 21st century should realize that the religion of Islam is the main source of Islamic terrorism happening today around the world. But sadly, majority of gullible people (Muslim and non-Muslims) tend to ask questions: Does the Islam have anything to do with Terrorism? More precisely—does the Qur’an anyway responsible for Islamic terrorism, or Islamic suicide bombings? Some hypocritical western educated so called moderate Muslims now started to blame Hadiths (only) for Islamic terrorism/suicide bombings etc. and they are hypocritically claiming that Quran is totally innocent of this crime.

These neo-islamists also claim that for all these Islamic suicide bombings and Islamic terrorism—it is the Sunnah (Ahadiths or traditions left by the Prophet Muhammad) which should be blamed, and not the Holy Quran. In this faulty or erroneous line of thinking they got their illusionary vision that, if hadiths could be dump then Islam will be very peaceful and innocent. This essay of mine has been dedicated to refute their (neo-islamists) dishonest claim about the source of Islamic terrorism.

reply to post by zroth


The implication given was that it was looking for a democracy. Which is as far from the truth as anyone can get. They are just trading a tyrant for another. The slam against the west was also received, as they are no better than the despots in the east. I disagree with the points provided about the empiracle nature of the west.

As for the title of the thread, their notion of democracy will be a far different notion of what we perceive.

To be frank, I'm tired of the bashing of America, it's beliefs of freedom and democracy. We get called haters, tyrants, murderers, and worse. Are we a perfect nation? Heck no! Just look at who we have as president! The culture of the "west" may not be perfect.
Nothing is.

But we are a damned sight better than those that view the sanctity of life differently than us.

reply to post by beezzer


While I can appreciate what you said, you continue to ignore the fact that I have yet to call out America specifically. The empire is more than America. Look broader.

Good luck defending!

Peace

reply to post by beezzer


We were formed (the US) as a republic, for a reason. Obviously democracy allows idiots to rule because the majority of people simply do not think. Now, go stare in a mirror please...

Originally posted by Apollumi
reply to post by beezzer

 

We were formed (the US) as a republic, for a reason. Obviously democracy allows idiots to rule because the majority of people simply do not think. Now, go stare in a mirror please...

Okay, dun that. Hee-yuk!

Not sure of your point. Does the president define the tenor of a country? Nope. If that were the case, we'd have been kicked out of every country we have ever been in. I think America is defined by it's people. What most in the media and in power try to ignore.

reply to post by Apollumi

To people that are casual and don't know squat yet rant, I spent time in Egypt. Me, the person posting this message spent time there. Something that took me by surprise was the people I had met. They were not beheading their neighbors and passing casual judgment. They were the "kindest" people I have ever met in my life. Gentle, giving, loving to one another. I also met some of their military and carried on a few conversations with them.

I don't care how kind those you met were to your face - I have been to Egypt too! - the minute you step out of your role as a dhimmi, they will quite happily cut your throat!

84% of them think you should be killed for leaving Islam!
82% of them think women should be stoned to death for 'adultery'

about 50% of them are illiterate - most of the rests experience of literature is restricted to Islam!

The idea that these people are about to embrace freedom and democracy is ludicrous - they have no conception of what freedom means, in fact the very definition of 'freedom' in Islam is freedom to be a slave to Islam.

Okay, dun that. Hee-yuk!

Not sure of your point. Does the president define the tenor of a country? Nope. If that were the case, we'd have been kicked out of every country we have ever been in. I think America is defined by it's people. What most in the media and in power try to ignore.

Every country deserves to be ruled by the conscience of it's people. The Egyptian people are their country. The simple truth is brutal though. They'll have to kill for it. Just like we did with the British. Nobody owns anything. There is only the ability to enforce your will while we (as humanity) put our faith in the animal part of us instead of the spiritual. Do they deserve their democracy? They most certainly do. Do we as a humanity serve the intent of God written in us? We most certainly do not. They will have to dodge ALL the casual judgments of men, a tempting media, many countries, etc to gain a freedom from within. The gauntlet and challenge is laid before them and it will take incredible courage and will to overcome it. Honestly, they don't want Mr. Obama to make this happen for them because it will weaken them. They must make it happen for themselves.

I say to anyone, thinking any peoples are any less a creation of God than yourself "from afar and at a distance" is ruin. A simple casual judgment gives away the heart of many. Divide and judge democrat vs republican. Divide and judge christian vs Islam. Divide and judge women vs men. Division is the tool of the worst intent of man and you did not inspire to use it on your own but were encouraged to do so.

It will extremely interesting to see how all this plays out, as either another Army backed dictator - or the Muslim brotherhood and a Caliphate - and to watch the media pundits squirm as thier piffleabout democracy and freedom evaporates.


frontpagemag.com...

The majority of Arab dictators have been enemies of the West. The US never supported Al Assad of Syria, either father or son, nor Mohmar Gadhafi of Lybia, and yet they are brutal dictators. The West needs to understand that there is something intrinsic in Islamic culture that creates animosity with the West and it has nothing to do with what the West does or does not do. Every Muslim leader who aspires to gain popularity will be guaranteed it if he gives a speech calling America the “Great Satan.” Ahmadinejad’s popularity skyrocketed in Egypt after insulting the American president on American soil in his speech in New York. It is a litmus test in the Arab world that a truly loyal Muslim leader must automatically be an enemy of the West.

This is not a coincidence. Sharia (Islamic) law obliges the Muslim head of state to do violent jihad against non-Muslim countries and never truly befriend them or treat them as equals. Muslim leaders often hide their friendship with the West, and it is time for us and for the Arab world to openly ask: why? Why is it that befriending Western nations will brand them as “puppets of the US,” the one description no Arab leader can survive? To avoid the devastating title of “US puppet” Muslim leaders go to great lengths to appear harsh and critical of the West when, in fact, they really want co-existence. They end up having the well-known two faces of the typical Muslim leader: a friendly one to the West in private, and a critical one in public. That game must be exposed for what it is and it must end.

My opinion:

OP needs to pull his/her head out their ass. Freedom is not a gift the USA hands out. Freedom, and the want for it, comes from within. Nobody "set up" the USA with freedom, we earned it on our own. Much the same, no other country can be "handed" freedom, they must earn it. If ever a country were to fail at freedom and democracy, it will be Iraq or Afghanistan (your model of interventionist righteousness). Why? because it was artificially installed via the an outside force. The only true democracy is the one the masses create...and that is mutually exclusive of the OP's idea of what democracy is.

reply to post by JohhnyBGood


I know a few members have said it before, but I'll say it again since you insist on bringing the "stats" back up.

1,000 people DOES NOT speak for 80 million people. Don't care what you say, this cannot be. 1,000 people cannot effectively represent 80 million people. What if the remaining 79,999,000 voted that they are not in favor of stoning? Oh but lets just pick and choose who's vote to count.

How were these 1,000 picked anyway? Were they just taken off the streets? There is a Muslim/Islamic family living down the street from me (very nice people too), should I go ask them their opinion on stoning? Could we then say that that family represents the opinion of all the Islamic people?

I also go to school with quite a few Muslim students. Should I ask them? Actually, when I visited other colleges, I was surprised to see a majority of Muslim/Asian students (well, not surprised about the Asians). Is this the work of terrorist?

Is Christianity so pure? I think you're forgetting they burned people at the cross...alive. I mean....I find it EXTREMELY laughable that you are sitting there, and saying that Islam is a terror filled religion.. Have you even studied the history of Christianity? Gee, sounds like you're a little biased twords Islam.

You're just another Islamiphobic American (or where ever you hail from).