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God is in the heavens.

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posted on Feb, 4 2011 @ 10:21 AM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


if god creates every one and everything then why does he test young childrens faith in a way that men of god sexually abuse them, i am not saying every man of god or even most but a small percentage is enough to be a truly evil act from himself.




posted on Feb, 4 2011 @ 10:23 AM
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Originally posted by lewman
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


desmond tutu isnt a catholic and he wears a nice purple robe and many non catholic reverends wear black so i am unsure of your question since i am the grand child of a protestant reverend so i would surely know what colour outfit they wear.



It's almost unbearable to follow your run-on, but what is YOUR point about what color clothes people wear? Who cares?



posted on Feb, 4 2011 @ 10:26 AM
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Originally posted by lewman
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


if god creates every one and everything then why does he test young childrens faith in a way that men of god sexually abuse them, i am not saying every man of god or even most but a small percentage is enough to be a truly evil act from himself.


There is satan you know. His main aim is to steal, kill, and destroy. Secondly, the Bible never tells pastors not to marry. many of the apostles had wives. That's an invention of the Catholic Church to prevent Bishops from having estates to pass on so all their money would go back to the church.

The practice is quite against God's Word.



posted on Feb, 7 2011 @ 01:48 AM
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God made wars because people were influenced by Satan. Satan is a killer and a liar. They needed to do the wars out of precaution or they would have been killed by the ones influenced by Satan, isn't it?

Passage John 8:44:

44Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.



posted on Feb, 7 2011 @ 02:04 AM
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reply to post by seedofchucky
 


You fail to understand the mind and the will of God in the person of Jesus, and can't seem to grasp the first thing of the love at the core of it, wake up! Think it through from Jesus' own perspective, and what he died for and relative to.



posted on Feb, 7 2011 @ 03:05 PM
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Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by seedofchucky
 


You fail to understand the mind and the will of God in the person of Jesus, and can't seem to grasp the first thing of the love at the core of it, wake up! Think it through from Jesus' own perspective, and what he died for and relative to.


what he died for ?

In Deuteronomy 24:16 it specifically says this:

The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the father. Every man shall be put to death for his own sin.


I never asked Jesus to die for my sins .... Why should i be forced to accept something i never agreed too ?

If jesus was here today i would say listien here silly man i don't want u to die for my sins . Let me deal with my own sins and god ?

Why did he have to commit suicide anyway ? Im sure god has many ways of clearing sins then suicide missions wouldnt you agree?

snap his finger ?

change time ?

restart life without anyone knowing it ?

so many possibilities ...

but what does he do ... send his "son" on a suicide mission for my sins ?

sorry i do not agree to this pagan ritual of suicide mission on crosses



"When a righteous man turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die. Again, when the wicked man turneth away from his wickedness that he hath committed, and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul alive. [Ezekiel 18:1-4; 20-24; 26-27]

So, the Bible is clear, no one can die for the sins of another.This means that Jesus cannot die for your sins."

www.whatjewsbelieve.org...


He did not die for me. nor is he god .
edit on 7-2-2011 by seedofchucky because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 7 2011 @ 03:11 PM
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Another thing, you guys talking about Satan... Where has Satan ever been shown to be evil? I can't think of anything except the bible. Of course, we all know that history is written by the victor. We'd all be taught that Hitler was a hero right now if he had won.
edit on 7-2-2011 by warbird03 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 7 2011 @ 04:04 PM
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reply to post by seedofchucky
 

Then you'll be judged in absolute accordance with precisely what you've done or failed to do, relative to a standard of absolute perfection, no intercessory grace 4 U. Someone like you would be better off never having even heard of the gospel of salvation and atonement.

Oh how we rebel against God's own standard of justice and mercy.. oh sigh. Forgive us father for many among us do not know.

P.S. Jesus was one with the spirit of the living God aka God in the flesh. Why do you deny him and his love? How can you not recognize his taking upon himself the sins and sufferings of a fallen world to clense the karmic debt and make all things new?


Why the anger and the willfulness, chucky? I don't get it.



posted on Feb, 7 2011 @ 04:06 PM
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reply to post by warbird03
 


And a satan lover, who is at enmity with God and man...

what's WITH you people..?



posted on Feb, 7 2011 @ 04:13 PM
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reply to post by NewAgeMan
 


Nobody should be held to somebody else's impossible standard.

God's own standard of "justice and mercy" involves killing off almost the entire planet. Real nice guy, isn't he?

Which is it? Was Jesus God's son, or was he god? It constantly gets switched around by you people (Yes, I said "You people"! Quick, everybody freak out!)

Prove god to me without referring back to the bible. Go ahead, please. Prove anything at all from the bible. Without proof of something, the only option for reasonable people is to deny it.



posted on Feb, 7 2011 @ 04:14 PM
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Originally posted by NewAgeMan


"P.S. Jesus was one with the spirit of the living God aka God in the flesh. Why do you deny him and his love? How can you not recognize his taking upon himself the sins and sufferings of a fallen world to clense the karmic debt and make all things new? "

a) I do not expect god to have a son . why not daughter? mother ? father ? uncle ?

b) god in flesh ? why would i want my creator to be in flesh ? flesh = weak , bleed , sickness , death . I would never want my creator to be in such a fragile body.

c) deny whos love ? why would i worship someone on a sucide mission ?

d) how can i recognize jesus ? when the bible is full of holes , contradictions , a jealous god , and numerous errors ?

e) jesus did not die for my sins , jesus is not god .

f) you have christians debating people on a daily basis and looking like fools , why does your jesus not help them and fill there heads with knowledge so they stop losing debates ?

g) the bible has so many edited , removed , added texts that its impossible to know what is inspired by "god" and what is the work of man .

h) why would i worship such a diety who hides him self behind a contradictary book ?

i) why would god give me a critical thinking brain and not expect me to use it ? e.i - blind faith ?

j) jesus lied . he said i could move a mountain but i cant

k) jesus lied told me i could drink poison and not die ..

l) shall i go on...?
edit on 7-2-2011 by seedofchucky because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 7 2011 @ 04:14 PM
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Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by warbird03
 


And a satan lover, who is at enmity with God and man...

what's WITH you people..?



Did I once say that I'm a Satan lover? I simply asked for proof either way, which I'd be willing to bet you can't do.

The bible was made by mankind, and we all know how easy people are manipulated.
edit on 7-2-2011 by warbird03 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 8 2011 @ 01:21 AM
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My proof to show you God, the spirit, which is love and life is the learning I do within myself and the guidance I receive to live my life.



posted on Feb, 8 2011 @ 09:13 AM
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reply to post by etherical waterwave
 


"My proof to show you God, the spirit, which is love and life is the learning I do within myself and the guidance I receive to live my life"

this is not proof this is a subjective statement.

Why is your proof differnt then say budda subjective experince ?

Why is your proof differnt then islams ?

how about the hindus?

you all have hearsay ... you all claiim to know whats behind the veil and how operations are run and how we should behave to get full salvation from this experince we call life .


You are trying to spread something that has no more value then just words .


Ask your god how many prayers it takes to heal a amuptee?

Ask your jesus how many prayers it takes to heal a amputee?

Can your god do that ?


okay forget the amputee. I'll give u a very simple experiment


Put a glass of water on top of a dresser or table.


Everyyday i want you to come to this water and pray to your god to change its color.

Lets see how many prayers it takes to do this simple task?



posted on Feb, 8 2011 @ 09:16 AM
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reply to post by NewAgeMan
 


"Oh how we rebel against God's own standard of justice and mercy.. oh sigh. Forgive us father for many among us do not know"


Where is God's standards ? in the bible ? the one full of errors contradictions and flat out lies ?


Would got really hold it against me for not accepting that broken book as divine inspiration ?


Surley if i have .1 reason and logic got must have x10123101201 more then me ?


If he honeestly tells me to accept that broken book . I would still chose hell over accepting that garbage.


I will never worship the god of the bible . Because that is a flawed lyiing contradictary jealous God.


Im sorry i pictured the supreme creator of the universe alot more then the little God the bible makes him out to be.



How many prayers will the holy father require to heal a amputee?



posted on Feb, 8 2011 @ 09:19 AM
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Originally posted by seedofchucky
a) I do not expect god to have a son . why not daughter? mother ? father ? uncle ?


Who cares what you expect? If you expect the Earth to have a gravity half what it is, does this make it so? If you expect to get an iPod for Christmas, do you always get one? Your clueless expectations have no bearing on reality.


b) god in flesh ? why would i want my creator to be in flesh ? flesh = weak , bleed , sickness , death . I would never want my creator to be in such a fragile body.


Again, who cares what you want? But your attitude demonstrates a complete lack of understanding of Christian theology -- not surprising, of course, and you can't be faulted for being ignorant on a subject that you're clearly not interested in.


f) you have christians debating people on a daily basis and looking like fools , why does your jesus not help them and fill there heads with knowledge so they stop losing debates ?


I don't know, you look pretty foolish in this posting, and I scarcely see anyone, Christian or atheist, winning any converts to their side with online debates. Most of the finest minds that this world has ever produced have been theists of one sort or another, so your belief that believer == unintelligent is flat out wrong.

I do like the irony of saying "fill there heads" in a paragraph implying that someone other than yourself is dumb, though.


g) the bible has so many edited , removed , added texts that its impossible to know what is inspired by "god" and what is the work of man .


Not, it is unfailingly easy. Read Luke 10:25-37, where Christ explicitly spells out what God wants you to do. Anything in the book the contradicts that contradicts him, and is probably not accurate. It's not surprising, though, that very little of the New Testament contradicts that. (If you are a fundamentalist and want to argue about the Old Testament, take it up with the Jews who wrote it.)


i) why would god give me a critical thinking brain and not expect me to use it ? e.i - blind faith ?


Nowhere is it written that you shouldn't use your brain. The fact that you are not is your fault, not God's.


j) jesus lied . he said i could move a mountain but i cant


You have no faith, and you're complaining that you can't do something by faith? Good one.



posted on Feb, 8 2011 @ 09:50 AM
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reply to post by adjensen
 


"Who cares what you expect? If you expect the Earth to have a gravity half what it is, does this make it so? If you expect to get an iPod for Christmas, do you always get one? Your clueless expectations have no bearing on reality."

Umm.. the post was in my view . I don't care if you don't like what i expect of god. That doesnt change the fact of what i expect . I don't expect anything on Christmas matter of fact i don't get anything on christmas because i dont' celebrate it ? My clueless expectations are in my view and what i expect of a Supreme Being ?lol no bearing on reality ? and these subjective double standard experinces are ?


"Again, who cares what you want? But your attitude demonstrates a complete lack of understanding of Christian theology -- not surprising, of course, and you can't be faulted for being ignorant on a subject that you're clearly not interested in."


Again its my point of view and im sharing it . i do care. but you don't have too np . Complete lack of understanding of christian theology ? My good man most christians lack this because there really is no such thing as christian theology . Its a change over time pay as you go type ideology that changes over the years with loads of double standards , hippocracy editing changing revising , council of nicia , spanish inquisition etc. Please save me the dogma and pretend like it has some merit . I am intrested in it . But nothing of substance to show in bible besides contradictions hearsy and half christians who don't really read the nasty parts of the bible...


"I don't know, you look pretty foolish in this posting, and I scarcely see anyone, Christian or atheist, winning any converts to their side with online debates"

The point is they lose support . Christianity has to puts its machine into over drive these days. Thanks to the internet and information sharing many christians are waking up and realising how full of # they are . Trying to spread a gospel that has so many problems in it that calling it divine inspiration would be an insult to the Creator.


"I do like the irony of saying "fill there heads" in a paragraph implying that someone other than yourself is dumb, though."

No you misunderstood. If jesus was god , im sure he would help out his fellow christians who fight verbally for him ? Help them out in debates? so they don't look foolish at the end of them ? When i finish watching a christian debate , it always drives down creadiblity never up . This is a bad sign if you are trying to represent a divine cause. When you keep failing it should give you a few hints .....that maybe your divine creator is not what you thought he was ?


"Not, it is unfailingly easy. Read Luke 10:25-37, where Christ explicitly spells out what God wants you to do. Anything "

This is my problem with bible quotes .



this is my point about versions of the bible. Its cherry picking thrown out , edited changed that has ZERO Credibility left . Why do you ask me to read such a broken book?


If we had a science book in school and it was proven without a doubt that it has many many problems all over it . .... would you still ask me to refrence from this book ? No ? then why pretend like the bible is a divine inspiration when its full of errors contradictions hearsay and blatant violent acts ?



"Anything in the book the contradicts that contradicts him, and is probably not accurate. It's not surprising, though, that very little of the New Testament contradicts that. (If you are a fundamentalist and want to argue about the Old Testament, take it up with the Jews who wrote it.)"


Really probably not accurate ? really ? of course its nor surprising . I don't subscribe to any new or old testament . They have to many errors for me to even consider a divine inspiration behind it . Sure once upon a time it may have had some divine inspiration . but since man got his filthy little hands on it . I don't trust it anymore . Its tainted my good man and the bible is bleeding .


"Nowhere is it written that you shouldn't use your brain. The fact that you are not is your fault, not God's"


Actually the statement was about why would god give me a critical thinking brain and not expect me to use it ? I never once said anything abotu it not being written or written. The fact that some christians follow this book which clearly takes away any critical thinking if you actually take it literal is fact enough our brains and our gift of critical thinking helps us debunk this man made garbage passed as diving inspiration. Shall i thank god for that. ? or shall i thank the men who messed up the bible so bad it helped me get away from it ?


"You have no faith, and you're complaining that you can't do something by faith? Good one. "


Okay can you show me a christian with who can move a mountain or drink poison ?










I do not think jesus would lie to me . I do not think God would lie to me


Conclusion = Bible been tampered with so much you misplaced God and Jesus in the process.

Please don't disrespect Jesus and God by partnering them with such a broken book known as the bible ?


If you were the creator would you not be pissed ? i know i would be



posted on Feb, 8 2011 @ 10:25 AM
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reply to post by NewAgeMan
 


Be calm NWM.

Aummmmmmm.



posted on Feb, 8 2011 @ 10:39 AM
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Originally posted by seedofchucky
reply to post by adjensen
 


"Who cares what you expect? If you expect the Earth to have a gravity half what it is, does this make it so? If you expect to get an iPod for Christmas, do you always get one? Your clueless expectations have no bearing on reality."

Umm.. the post was in my view . I don't care if you don't like what i expect of god. That doesnt change the fact of what i expect . I don't expect anything on Christmas matter of fact i don't get anything on christmas because i dont' celebrate it ? My clueless expectations are in my view and what i expect of a Supreme Being ?lol no bearing on reality ? and these subjective double standard experinces are ?


Well, that's kind of a big mess that you've written there, but, yes. Complaining about something because it doesn't meet your expectations is not a valid criticism. There's nothing wrong with your disagreeing with it, but your opinion doesn't change what it is.


Complete lack of understanding of christian theology ? My good man most christians lack this because there really is no such thing as christian theology . Its a change over time pay as you go type ideology that changes over the years with loads of double standards , hippocracy editing changing revising , council of nicia , spanish inquisition etc.


Once again, you really need to work on your arguments. Throwing out random concepts doesn't really accomplish anything.

Are there Christian doctrines that have remained constant since the early church fathers? Certainly. The Doctrine of the Trinity, the Doctrine of the Incarnation and the Doctrine of Grace were formulated prior to 500AD and haven't really been changed.

Is there a lot of disagreement among Christians regarding things like the role of works in salvation, or whether infant baptism is valid, or whether the congregational polity is more effective than the Ecclesiastical model? Sure, but who cares? Those are matters of denominational opinion. Find a denomination that thinks like you do on these minutia, and you're done with it.


The point is they lose support . Christianity has to puts its machine into over drive these days. Thanks to the internet and information sharing many christians are waking up and realising how full of **** they are . Trying to spread a gospel that has so many problems in it that calling it divine inspiration would be an insult to the Creator.


On the contrary, the message is what it has always been -- love God, love your neighbour, and accept Christ. Maybe that's not the message that you're getting, and there certainly are those who preach something else, but from Christ's words to your ears, that is the centre of Christ's teachings.


Why do you ask me to read such a broken book?


I honestly don't care if you do or don't, but if you fail to do so, you will continue to make stupid arguments. You have a very immature understanding of Christianity, akin to those who believe that God is an old white guy sitting on a cloud. That's fine for children, but when adults want to talk, simplistic misconceptions are of little value.


Actually the statement was about why would god give me a critical thinking brain and not expect me to use it ? I never once said anything abotu it not being written or written. The fact that some christians follow this book which clearly takes away any critical thinking


I can assure you that I am a critical thinker. The difference is that I've taken the time to learn about what I speak, not just babble on about something that I don't understand. If it doesn't make sense to you, fine. But lots of people have taken a critical view of Christianity and come to the conclusion that it makes perfect sense, so give up the argument that faith means not critically thinking.


Okay can you show me a christian with who can move a mountain or drink poison ?


Let's see if we can manage this critically. We'll start with the actual quote:


Then the disciples came to Jesus in private and asked, "Why couldn't we drive (the demon) out?" He replied "Because you have so little faith. If you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there' and it will move. Northing will be impossible for you." (Matthew 17:19-21 , NIV)


So, the Apostles, holy men, failed to do something, and Christ told them that the reason was that they lacked faith. That if they had true faith, even a little bit of it, nothing would be impossible.

Now, there are three possibilities. First, Christ may have been speaking metaphorically -- they will be able to accomplish all that they set out to do, in faith, and he uses the "mountain move" command as a hyperbole that overstates the point. Secondly, he may have been literal, but no one in this world is capable of the enabling faith that he speaks of -- that makes a bit of sense, as even his devout followers lacked it. Or thirdly, again taken literally, it may be that people are capable of this, but that level of faith would result in a person taking the admonition not to "test the Lord" seriously and not performing such parlour tricks.

Three very reasonable explanations for the text, none of which require Jesus to "lie".

This is called "critical thinking." Deciding that Jesus lied, simply because you don't like him, and you can't do it, is not called "critical thinking."



posted on Feb, 8 2011 @ 10:47 AM
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reply to post by adjensen
 



"Now, there are three possibilities. First, Christ may have been speaking metaphorically "

This is why debating with a christian is like teaching a monkey to use google.

You can bring out hundreads of "possibilities" just to cover the bs.


With this sort of reason and logic . I chose to not further discuss this matter.

No matter how much evidence points opposite to your broken belief system you will have a 100 possibilities to cover the bs





sorry pal i smell it from here its harder and harder to cover?



looooooool


"Well, that's kind of a big mess that you've written there, but, yes. Complaining about something because it doesn't meet your expectations is not a valid criticism. There's nothing wrong with your disagreeing with it, but your opinion doesn't change what it is"

Thats why its called an opinion







"I honestly don't care if you do or don't, but if you fail to do so, you will continue to make stupid arguments. You have a very immature understanding of Christianity"


vs

""Now, there are three possibilities. First, Christ may have been speaking metaphorically "


Like i said before your best scholars don't understand christanity . Nobody understands christanity . Because everyone has there own version and keep covering it up with bs after bs after bs .


Why can't i take your three possibilities when i talk about jesus not being god ?


Can you show me where the bible says trinity please ?

Could you show me the word "bible" in bible?


How much bs do you need before your bs meter goes off my good man ?


I could easily sit here and break down your reason and logic you posted above . But whats the point ?? when you come out with bs like




"Now, there are three possibilities. First, Christ may have been speaking metaphorically "



why stop at three ? why not 10 ?


everyone else keeps making # up why not add more ?


lol i rest my case good luck with your "bible" and how broken it is .


"This is called "critical thinking." Deciding that Jesus lied, simply because you don't like him, and you can't do it, is not called "critical thinking."

Um did you read my post ? i said i do not think jesus would lie to me . But the bible makes him out to be the liar . I believe in a character name jesus . but not the son of god nor god in flesh .

The bible lied to me not jesus . Please don't confuse the two . I was not there in jesus time . I can't confirm nor deny . But alot of the words in bible are lies . The mountain and poison are just two of them .


Debating christians actually turns me away from God and Jesus because of how much Christians LIE
Thank you for that
edit on 8-2-2011 by seedofchucky because: (no reason given)

edit on 8-2-2011 by seedofchucky because: (no reason given)



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