End the slander : Obama is a Christian

Originally posted by Tiste
I am christian and have strong faith...my God is a peaceful, loving God who teaches and preaches tolerance of others no matter their faith. I do not claim to speak for him or to him directly, but I believe that I carry his spirit within me as do others.

Reading some of the posts by members on here...the worst sinners are the ones who feel that they speak directly for my Lord and feel that they can judge others in his name. All I can say is "Shame on you" and as a christian, I am embarrassed by this attitude.

I have many friends from many different religions...no particular belief is better than any other. As long as that belief makes you a better person to others and this world.

On a side note, Buddhism trumps us all...their belief system is awesome!!!

Your post is pathetic. The christian faith is offensive to people when you tell them the truth. Lets see....the faith offended people so bad that they crusified Jesus for his words.....the faith offended poeple so bad that Jesus' disciples were murdered for their words as well. When your a christian your words will offend the non christian.

Your quote "as long as that belief makes you a better person to others and this world", are you freakin kidding me! show me where in the bible it says this you new ager. Have you been listening to Oprah for too long? There is only one way to the Father and that is through the son Jesus. No one shall see the Father except he go through the son. You are way of base, and that is not a christian way of thinking/belief! Sorry my words are hard, call it tough love, but I am not going to let you mock christians with your new age way of thinking.

My sister follows buddhism. How can you call it a awesome belief system when it will send all its believes to hell. Again, IF your a christian, you know that only those who worship the son Jesus can see the Father and Heaven. Yes I love other people of other religions, however, I also tell them the truth that the path they are on will lead to eternal damnation. I guess you dont love people enough to tell them the truth, you would rather let them go to the pit for eternity as long as they are a good person on earth and not offending others. pathetic.

I love my sister, but I tell her the plan truth, that they path she is on will lead to hell. I have had atheist friends and muslim friends, and I have told them the truth as well. Its love when you care enough about people that you dont want them to go to hell. How can they know the truth unless someone tell them.

And NO! I am not without sin. I am a sinner. I love Jesus, and his sacrifice is the only thing that makes me in right standing with Father God.

When a christian is off track, a good christian will call them out and point out the errors of their ways so that they can repent. People calling out Obama for his errors as a "christian" is Godly. He needs to repent. I do pray for him and other leaders of this county.

I said this all out of love, even tho it does not appear so. I love Father God so much that I will not let his word be mocked and I love you so much that I am responding to show you that you are off the path that the only way to Father God is Through Jesus.

accepting jesus christ as savior is not all one must do. one must not kill for 1 thing and he orders the killing as long as he is presadent . Unlike a true christian as jimmy carter refused to do. OBAMA is not a true christian as far as what i have read and others have said. You cant be a soldier either so you hero worshipping soldiers out there should go read the bible instead of talking about it. verry few according to the bible are christians---maybe 1 percent of the world---

Originally posted by itsawild1
accepting jesus christ as savior is not all one must do. one must not kill for 1 thing and he orders the killing as long as he is presadent . Unlike a true christian as jimmy carter refused to do. OBAMA is not a true christian as far as what i have read and others have said. You cant be a soldier either so you hero worshipping soldiers out there should go read the bible instead of talking about it.

Wow just wow. Your inferences are truly astounding. So by your logic NONE of the former war time Presidents have been Christians since they are Commander in Chief of US military. Is that what you are suggesting?

Previous wartime Presidents:

George Washington: war with Native Americans in Ohio
Thomas Jefferson: Tripolitan War, 1800-1805, against the Barbary pirates
James Madison - War of 1812, 1812-1814, against the British
James Monroe - First Seminole War, 1817-1818
Andrew Jackson - Black Hawk War, 1832
Martin Van Buren - Aroostook War, 1839; Second Seminole War - ended 1842
William Henry Harrison - Second Seminole War - ended 1842
John Tyler - Second Seminole War - ended 1842
James Polk - Mexican War
James Buchanan - beginning of the Civil War
Abraham Lincoln - Civil War, 1861-1865
William McKinley - Spanish-American War, 1898; Boxer Rebellion, 1899-1900
Woodrow Wilson - WWI, 1914-1918
Warren Harding - formally concluded WWI
Franklin Roosevelt - WWII, 1941-1945
Harry Truman - conclusion of WWII, Korean War - 1950-1953
Dwight Eisenhower - conclusion of Korean War
John Kennedy - Bay of Pigs Invasion, 1961; beginning of Vietnam War
Lyndon Johnson - Vietnam War, Dominican Republic, 1965
Richard Nixon - Vietnam War
Ronald Reagan - Grenada Invasion, 1983
George Bush - Invasion of Panama, 1989-1990; Persian Gulf War, 1990-1991
George W. Bush - War against the Taliban, Iraq, 2001 to present.

SOURCE

(Also at the above link is Presidents by religion - useful info.)

verry few according to the bible are christians---maybe 1 percent of the world---

Here is a breakdown of world religions. As you can see Christians represent a substantial percentage of world religions. (Approx 28%)

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/3e2390fbf302.png[/atsimg]

Forgive me but your vague references and unsubstantiated facts display utter ignorance.

Originally posted by YeshuaWarrior

Your post is pathetic. The christian faith is offensive to people when you tell them the truth. Lets see....the faith offended people so bad that they crusified Jesus for his words.....the faith offended poeple so bad that Jesus' disciples were murdered for their words as well. When your a christian your words will offend the non christian.

Your quote "as long as that belief makes you a better person to others and this world", are you freakin kidding me! show me where in the bible it says this you new ager. Have you been listening to Oprah for too long? There is only one way to the Father and that is through the son Jesus. No one shall see the Father except he go through the son. You are way of base, and that is not a christian way of thinking/belief! Sorry my words are hard, call it tough love, but I am not going to let you mock christians with your new age way of thinking.

My sister follows buddhism. How can you call it a awesome belief system when it will send all its believes to hell. Again, IF your a christian, you know that only those who worship the son Jesus can see the Father and Heaven. Yes I love other people of other religions, however, I also tell them the truth that the path they are on will lead to eternal damnation. I guess you dont love people enough to tell them the truth, you would rather let them go to the pit for eternity as long as they are a good person on earth and not offending others. pathetic.

I love my sister, but I tell her the plan truth, that they path she is on will lead to hell. I have had atheist friends and muslim friends, and I have told them the truth as well. Its love when you care enough about people that you dont want them to go to hell. How can they know the truth unless someone tell them.

And NO! I am not without sin. I am a sinner. I love Jesus, and his sacrifice is the only thing that makes me in right standing with Father God.

When a christian is off track, a good christian will call them out and point out the errors of their ways so that they can repent. People calling out Obama for his errors as a "christian" is Godly. He needs to repent. I do pray for him and other leaders of this county.

I said this all out of love, even tho it does not appear so. I love Father God so much that I will not let his word be mocked and I love you so much that I am responding to show you that you are off the path that the only way to Father God is Through Jesus.

I guess to each their own...I do pity people who feel the need to tell others they are on their way to eternal damnation. Sad really...

Just a question. Do you believe the bible is a divinely written book and take it literally for what is written in the pages? I think you need to put down the bible and pick up the writings of the Essenes who were much closer to Jesus than the accounts in the bible which were written years (and changed many times) after the crucifixion.

I am no new ager...far from it. You in fact sound more like a new ager and much less like a believer in what Jesus taught. If you think that you and your lot are the only ones accepted into paradise and myself, non-christians and all others who understand tolerance and acceptance is going to eternal damnation...not only is that narcissistic, but against the teachings of Jesus.

Soooo....I guess from one christian to the next, I am asking you to repent...is that how this works? You are the almighty and trying to be God by calling out Obama to repent...who are you to judge? You say that this is out of love, but all I sense is hate...and that is wrong.

Originally posted by Maxmars
I am not a regular 'defender' of political figures, but some of your comments strike me a ill-considered. If I may explain, respectfully.

Originally posted by sara123123
Hello Maxmars! I will do my best to answer your questions and address your points. To launch this, though, I think you need to understand this about me. I am a constitutionalist.

As such, I am for the constitutional structure of Federal and State power and for individual the rights listed in the constitution in it's original intent as documented in the Federalist papers and including the lawful amendments to the constitution. By lawful amendments, I mean amendments that have been made to the constitution via the process prescribed in the constitution. Judicial activism that has demolished the constitution and illegally rewritten it, at judicial whim, does not count to me. Presidential and congressional violations of the constitution are illegal to me. Treason comes to mind.

Total power corrupts totally and we have a totally corrupt government, no matter which party controls it. They do no respect the rule of law which they swear an oath to after each election. They do not look out for our interests; they look out for our interests; they look out for the interests of their own bank accounts and power, special interests, foreign governments and international corporations and global multi-billionaires.

So here we go!

I expect that any executive of the US administration meets - from time to time - with all manner of groups, so simply meeting with them is likely a function of foreign policy; since our government hides almost all things as 'secret' I can't say that I know the purpose of the meeting (aside from what the press and PR people report).

Could you please elaborate on the 'infiltration' of the government? I am curious because the same characterization can be laid upon the 'infiltration' of the government by corporate banking cartels, Christian and non-Christian groups, Shriners, Masons, etc, etc. I mean to ask, at what point is it infiltration? Since most such groups are guilty of self-serving reasons to occupy what is ostensibly 'public service' responsibilities, our entire government could be said to be 'infiltrated.'

Life in the US is so odd these days, I can't even assume when addressing you that you agree that the Islamic ideology of the Muslim Brotherhood (MB) is violent and dangerous to other peoples and governments. I can't assume that you are not rooting for harm and violence against the US; angry at our government for it's many sins. We have become pretty strange, self hating, raging and suicidal bunch since Bush angered the Nation with the Iraq war and thereby elevated radical anti-American voices and agendas through the anti-war movement. It's like Viet Nam insanity all over again except we can now add the MB. I will give you the benefit of the doubt here and assume you love this country and our people as much as I do, dispite our faults, and that you want nothing exceedingly bad to happen to us.

Islam is a Koran perscribed legal, social, economic and political system. Jihad, to the Muslim Brotherhood, is enacting Islam rule over every government and people of the world. That is their goal. That is their plan. That is behind every action they take in every Western nation.

The MB is well educated, organized, well funded (by the Saudis, Mosques, Non-profits, etc.) aggressive and committed international organization. It advances it's cause through stooge organizations like Cair in the name of Muslim rights, through Mosques, University Muslim schools, University departments, professors and student groups and through violent organizations like Hamas and al queda. (The CIA used Al Queda, but Al Queda existed via the MB before the CIA used them in Afghanistan). Through these roads, it has infiltrated US Congress, government agencies and the White House - big time since Obama took power.

You will not understand what it means when I say Islam is a politcial, social and economic governing system unless you study the truth about it rather than the political correctness about it. You can look at Turkey and say, it is a moderate, modern, secular State that is majority Muslim and I would say you must study the MB's view of Turkey as a State that is in need of being brought under Islam rule and they operate in Turkey to radicalize the young people and the government of Turkey. You must look at the Afghanistan's Taliban or Iran to see a Muslim country under Islamic rule per the ideology and goals of the MB. (Iran the the MB are different sects of Islam but close enough for you to see.) It is not moderate. It is total unreformed Islam in absolute and total control.

Either Obama does not recognize all the dangerous agenda and ideology of the MB organizations of the United States or he does not care because he is advancing the power and cause of the Muslim Brotherhood to rule over the Middle East (and then Europe and the US). He does not care that known MB agents have infiltrated the US government as he protects them in the name of civil rights.

Is the church you refer to in Chicago really "his" church? Or is it simply the church he belonged to for the purpose of garnering local political support? Do you have any reason to believe he specifically chose THAT church because of its rhetorical stance against what they call social and cultural offenses, and thus shares that church's leaders' view of the world? Not trying to be argumentative here but I don't agree with many, if not most, of my church leaders' views (or government for that matter)... why can the same not be true in his case?

Come on now. He went to the church for twenty years and if your political enemy went to a racist church for twenty years and he told you - "don't worry about it! I was only there for the votes!" would you accept that nonsense? I think Obama chose that church because it is in line with the outlook of his anti-Colonial upbringing as an African Muslim and because the Nation of Islam and Rev. Wright's church is well connected in the Black community of Chicago. He knew he could not run for National office as a Muslim so he had to find a Christian-Muslim church and Rev. Wright, a former Imam, fit the bill.

But let's say, you lived in KKK country and you wanted to run for President. Let's say you were a Senator and belonged in the KKK church because it was well connected in the white community of your city. Would that be okay with you? Could you really stand to send your wife, children and yourself to the KKK preacher's church so that you could get power to represent their interests and mentality if you if it was actively hateful towards Jews and other races of people? Does the means justify the ends of power? To me, it does not. And I am not a racist so I don't hold double standards for people seeking power. I don't want any color of hater or anti-American fool in power no matter their excuse or rationale. The stakes are too high for a President.

I suspect that I cannot reason with you regarding how these matters felt to you. I can understand that he might (as any president might) want to influence Americans not to take their pain and outrage out on Muslims because the shooter at Fort Hood was a Muslim acting, allegedly, on his religious convictions. I'm sure that he didn't demonize Americans in general, but American gun owners in the Arizona case.... which is keeping with his ideological conviction that guns are 'bad' for society. I didn't see the comments as a reflection of the nation, but on those who demand the right to bear arms.

It would have been honorable to me for him to protect innocent Muslims at that time by focusing guilt on the guilty individual and the Army brass that failed to act on the intellegence they had on the jihadist. They knew he was a radical and they knew he was in contact with a man who advises radicals on violent operations. He was reported as such to the Army brass. They were negligent to leave him in that position, COUNSELING broken American soldiers returning from war. Why did they do this? Because they did not want to take the heat of removing a Islamist from the Army because of his ideology. Everyone is to pretend Islam is the "religion of peace." (Thank you, liar Bush and company.) Obama, in the name of protecting Muslims, played down the terrible tragedy and loss to those soldiers families. He demoralized the troops acting like their lives did not matter.

"He" is behind that? I believe you are mistaken. That is part and parcel of the national mistake known as the Department of Homeland Security and it's operational subordinate the TSA. I don't believe that any political party is singularly behind that practice; instead, I attribute it to interests that have 'truly' infiltrated the government..., but that is another conversation entirely.

Is he behind the policy and actions of Homeland Security's air port policy? Is Homeland Security in the Executive Branch? Yes! Is he the head of the Executive Branch and the supervisor of Jan N. who is in charge of airport security? Yes! He has direct supervisory power to stop the abuse at any time he chooses to. The Congress bought all those machines in a deal with the crooked former head of Homeland Security, but Obama did not have to deploy them. He could have ordered homeland security to focus their searches on likely offenders and leave everyone else alone. Obama recently joked about the sexual molestion of flyers at our airports. He thinks it's funny to do this to Americans. Why is that funny to him? Go back to his "church" and it's ideology."

Several assumption herein. First off, the state of the border is unchanged .... not only did his administration have nothing to do with the situation, they remain disconnected from it. Why? I would say globalization agenda, but that's just me. As for it being done for the benefit of terrorists, well.... I can't see how that can be proved... although I understand that it is frustratingly incongruent with national security.... especially in light of the way American citizens get treated by the same government when they travel.

It is his policy that is carried out on the border and he as his own immigration policy different from Bush. Border Patrol is part of ICE and ICE is a part of Homeland Security. You know that chain of command from above now.

I agree that open borders is a globalist ideology and I agree that he's not the first President to refuse to guard the border from massive illegal immigration. But he is the president now and we are supposedly under the threat of Islamic terrorism. We have evidence Islamic radicals have crossed the border through Mexico and we know (according to Wikileaks) our government knows they have access to nucelar materials and biological weapons. His policy of molesting everyone at the airports and soon - buses, trains, arenas and malls, is supposedly to stop terrorism - yet he leaves the opportunity for the largest possible terrorist attack of all to happen - the release of nukes and biological weapons on Americans!

I'm sorry but that is an action of a man who said "The US can afford to take a nuclear attack." He said that! Who's he gonna knowingly "afford" to sacrifice? I hope it's not you. I like you. I hope it's not me. I like me, too. And please, can we stop with the "everybody does it" corruption excuse? We have to stop that or nothing will get better - ever - and it will only keep getting much worse. We have to make anti-constitutional mentalies and all corruption a real big deal and it won't happen as long as they can divide us into "everybody does it" camps! We lose. Freedom loses.

I expect that you are assuming the Muslim Brotherhood will take control of Egypt. I'm not sure even THEY think that would be in the best interest of their membership, but thats just my opinion. I have been waiting for him to demand the resignation of Mubarak, he really hasn't. The political elite are friends, they always cover each other; and even when they do, they are careful with their rhetoric so as not offend any other friends who might disagree.

I know the MB wants to take over power in Egypt just like every other country, especially Muslim majority countries. That is their feverent mission. Obama has demanded Mubarak resign this week. Murbarak said he will step down but not in the middle of chaos because that will give the MB the government. The other factions are not organized yet. A Parlimentary system has to reflect that organization of factions. If it was turned over now as Obama demanded, the most organized, brutal and powerful group to assume power is the MB. And they would assume power. They also said they would attack Israel as soon as they assmed power.

Fortunately, we have a renigade foreign service staff in Egypt and sane European and Arab allies who announced that Mubarak will step down at the end of his term in order to give the country a change to organize and establish a new representative government. The desires of Obama and the MB were rejected.

He trained revolutionaries? I didn't know that. I know our country trains insurgents ans revolutionaries all over the world; but it usually turns out that it has to do more with commercial and financial exploitation of the regime than any religious ideology, which is mostly used as a tool of political expedience.

According to State Department leaks via wikileaks, our State Department was "secretly" involved in training revolutionary leaders to overturn the Egyptian government. (also leaked today, by the way, Obama agreed to give Russia Britian's nuclear secrets in the new arms agreement). The Telegraph published both these wikileak reports.

It was "on his watch" that this trend became prevalent, that much is true. But it started well before he took office. Sadly, political success relies heavily on the ability to name and vilify enemies... especially when they are vulnerable. I don't want our nation to persecute any religious group, including Muslims. I suspect he would say he agrees. But everyone has a right not to agree, including you.

He can politically name and vilify all his heart's desire as long as he does not act like a dictator and sic law enforcement and spy agencies he controls on his political enemies like he is Hugo Chavez or Fidel Castro or like he is running the KGB of the former Soviet Union. His Homeland Security named these groups as breeding grounds for "domestic terrorists": Second Amerndment rights groups and gun owners, constitutionalists, pro-life groups, veterns of the Iraq war, third party voters, Survivalists, Christians who believe in Revelations...

That means these "terrorist" breeding ground groups fall under the extra-constitutional Patriot Act powers which was passed to control Islamic terrorism on the US. He's redefined terrorism from Islamic terrorism to American crime. And it's Americans selected based on who is his political enemy. That is a tad more than just vilifying people for an election. It would take a lot of material to explain to you what it means to be a Homeland security identified terrorist group in America. This possibility of power abuse is why I was against the Patriot Act. You too, probably. All of us will be sorely abused by it if we don't stop politicans using terrorism powers on non-Islamic terrorist US citizens. If they are really worried about Islamic terrorism keep those powers for Islamic terrorists. American crime is to be handled through constituional justice just as it has always been.

Finally, when Obama's gang villifed his political enemies they demanded these enemies be stripped of their first and second amendment rights BY THE GOVERNMENT. The classification of his enemies as terrorists, makes all that possible, actually. He can arrest them and hold them w/o a trial. He can even have American terrorists killed - an executive order he passed for himself.

I'm sorry. I am too tired to go any further in addressing the rest of this now. It is late. But I sure enjoyed chatting with you and I hope we can talk more as time go by. Thanks for being polite during this discussion.

Forgive me if this is not formatted right; it is my first try at this kind of response with interspersed quotes. I hope I did it right!

Originally posted by Maxmars
I have to echo the sentiments expressed by some here already.

It is in no way defamatory to be called a Muslim.

Were he a Muslim (and even IF he is a Muslim or ever was one) it has no effect on the mandate of the nation.

While most of us accept that a person's stated faith and spirituality are the stuff of political theater today, it is nevertheless (at least in theory) their own business and has nothing to do with their capacity or eligibility to serve the public.

We are fortunate, thus far, that we do not live in a nation with theocratic tenancies, because given the class-based oligarchical conservative tendencies that are already in place, America would become a veritable Hell on earth.

This is a 'cosmetic' issue,

I only wish to stress that it is NOT slander to be considered a Muslim. Muslims have honor, dignity, and no small degree of a charitable nature. (of course, as is with all cultures and classifications of humans, exceptions can become glaring, especially when in the hands of the political kabuki theater producers we have all come to accept as 'in the know')... and the same applies to Christians, Jews, Atheists, Buddhists, Hindus, and all manner of human beings.

It is prideful vainglory and lust for celebrity that drives people to vilify others, and it is sheer ignorance to create memes which extend to entire peoples for the purpose of manipulating the adoration of comrades and patriots.

You're absolutely right, Maxmars.
Here in New Zealand, the religion of the leader is, thankfully, considered completely irrelevant. Our previous Prime Minister was an agnostic, the current one (who has lived in the USA, and is very American influenced) waffles and claims to be whatever he thinks his audience wants to hear (but is probably also agnostic.) He's ethnically Jewish, but on a Christian radio station just before the last election, was waffling about being Christian. I just thought at the time "what a pity anyone thinks it's relevant!"
One thing I think seriously needs pointing out on this thread - it is neither illegal nor immoral to be a Muslim in the USA!
I remember reading before 9/11,that there were a huge number of Muslims already in the USA, and that of all Muslims in the USA, most were actually born there! African-Americans, I assume, such as Muhammad Ali, the boxer who was born Cassius Clay, for example...
Vicky

Originally posted by GrisGris

Originally posted by YeshuaWarrior
He's not a christian. A christian does not believe in or support abortion, period. He can call himself a christian, but he is just kidding himself, not God. what a phony.

You may be interested in considering this:

Herod was the ruler put in place by Ceasar. When he heard of the jesus, he set about murdering the children of the area. He killed 1000's.

Why is this relevant, you may ask. When Jesus was asked about taxes (something that funded the search and destroy of children) he said: give unto Ceasar what Ceasar is due and unto god what god is due

This could be seen as keep religion and politics separate and pay your taxes.


Just saying,
Gg

edit on 5-2-2011 by GrisGris because: Add link

I dont see that there are multiple interpretations. Jesus was asked a simple question about money by a man who was trying to come up with an excuse not to pay taxes. Jesus answered simply pay the government what they require and give to God what has been asked as well. Nothing more, nothing less. This has nothing to do with separation of church and state and the ability to serve two masters and have it be acceptable before God.
I dont believe in different interpretations of the bible. God is not the author of confusion, the devil is. If you get baptised in the Holy Spirit and have Him lead you as you read the bible confusion will be taken away.

Also, in a seperate post you said "Between you and the maker. He says he's Christian". Well I say I am a seven foot NBA Basketball Center, but just because I say it, doesnt make it so.

nice debate, I appreciate it.

Originally posted by Tiste

Originally posted by YeshuaWarrior

Your post is pathetic. The christian faith is offensive to people when you tell them the truth. Lets see....the faith offended people so bad that they crusified Jesus for his words.....the faith offended poeple so bad that Jesus' disciples were murdered for their words as well. When your a christian your words will offend the non christian.

Your quote "as long as that belief makes you a better person to others and this world", are you freakin kidding me! show me where in the bible it says this you new ager. Have you been listening to Oprah for too long? There is only one way to the Father and that is through the son Jesus. No one shall see the Father except he go through the son. You are way of base, and that is not a christian way of thinking/belief! Sorry my words are hard, call it tough love, but I am not going to let you mock christians with your new age way of thinking.

My sister follows buddhism. How can you call it a awesome belief system when it will send all its believes to hell. Again, IF your a christian, you know that only those who worship the son Jesus can see the Father and Heaven. Yes I love other people of other religions, however, I also tell them the truth that the path they are on will lead to eternal damnation. I guess you dont love people enough to tell them the truth, you would rather let them go to the pit for eternity as long as they are a good person on earth and not offending others. pathetic.

I love my sister, but I tell her the plan truth, that they path she is on will lead to hell. I have had atheist friends and muslim friends, and I have told them the truth as well. Its love when you care enough about people that you dont want them to go to hell. How can they know the truth unless someone tell them.

And NO! I am not without sin. I am a sinner. I love Jesus, and his sacrifice is the only thing that makes me in right standing with Father God.

When a christian is off track, a good christian will call them out and point out the errors of their ways so that they can repent. People calling out Obama for his errors as a "christian" is Godly. He needs to repent. I do pray for him and other leaders of this county.

I said this all out of love, even tho it does not appear so. I love Father God so much that I will not let his word be mocked and I love you so much that I am responding to show you that you are off the path that the only way to Father God is Through Jesus.

I guess to each their own...I do pity people who feel the need to tell others they are on their way to eternal damnation. Sad really...

Just a question. Do you believe the bible is a divinely written book and take it literally for what is written in the pages? I think you need to put down the bible and pick up the writings of the Essenes who were much closer to Jesus than the accounts in the bible which were written years (and changed many times) after the crucifixion.

I am no new ager...far from it. You in fact sound more like a new ager and much less like a believer in what Jesus taught. If you think that you and your lot are the only ones accepted into paradise and myself, non-christians and all others who understand tolerance and acceptance is going to eternal damnation...not only is that narcissistic, but against the teachings of Jesus.

Soooo....I guess from one christian to the next, I am asking you to repent...is that how this works? You are the almighty and trying to be God by calling out Obama to repent...who are you to judge? You say that this is out of love, but all I sense is hate...and that is wrong.

edit on 5-2-2011 by Tiste because: (no reason given)

IF you do not believe what Jesus said (John 14:6) " I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me" then you are not a christian. period. Your posts are the exact opposite of Gods word and therefore you are not a christian. It is not judging when I am simply repeating what God has already said. There is NO interpretation here, simply repeating what God has said. Until you come to grips with what God has said (John 14:6) then I can not debate with you anylonger.

Also, if you know based on Gods own word (the Bible, not any other sourse) that someone is going to hell, and you dont tell them, what kind of friend are you? Sounds like something the devil would do.

I hope you allow the Holy Spirit to guide you to the truth.

reply to post by sara123123



I must thank you for your response. Well thought out and very worthy of consideration. While I can't respond at length now, I want to point out that you have captured the precise method to discuss the matter without making the person you are conversing with feel attacked or humiliated.

You have given me food for serious thought. But just to answer an implicit question: I am most likely to be considered a Constitutionalist myself, although I resist falling into a generalist label since there are some things considered Constitutional that I have a difficult time accepting. But rather than digress into religion and such, I will say this:

To be an effective politician, political loyalty, expedience, and the support of the party must outweigh other considerations.... that makes politicians a dangerous group to 'trust.'

Your vigilance, and the questions and observations you make are why this country cannot be simply 'subverted.'

We may never reach global dominance as a nation, assuming that some feel this is a valid objective, but we will never be a theocratic oligarchy (or a corporate tool pretending to be one) without oppression and repression being a glaring component of society.

I always remember the wisdom of Fredrick Douglas who advised a young activist of his day... "Agitate, agitate!"

Stay well..... we will return to this discussion soon I hope.

Of course he's a Christian. A black seperatist racist one, but a Christian none the less. Other wise he and Reverand Wright wouldn't have been such a topic during the campaign. The making of him a muslim by some is pretty pathetic in my opinion anyway, what he already truely is, is far worse.

Originally posted by YeshuaWarrior

Your post is pathetic. The christian faith is offensive to people when you tell them the truth. Lets see....the faith offended people so bad that they crusified Jesus for his words.....the faith offended poeple so bad that Jesus' disciples were murdered for their words as well. When your a christian your words will offend the non christian.

Your quote "as long as that belief makes you a better person to others and this world", are you freakin kidding me! show me where in the bible it says this you new ager. Have you been listening to Oprah for too long? There is only one way to the Father and that is through the son Jesus. No one shall see the Father except he go through the son. You are way of base, and that is not a christian way of thinking/belief! Sorry my words are hard, call it tough love, but I am not going to let you mock christians with your new age way of thinking.

My sister follows buddhism. How can you call it a awesome belief system when it will send all its believes to hell. Again, IF your a christian, you know that only those who worship the son Jesus can see the Father and Heaven. Yes I love other people of other religions, however, I also tell them the truth that the path they are on will lead to eternal damnation. I guess you dont love people enough to tell them the truth, you would rather let them go to the pit for eternity as long as they are a good person on earth and not offending others. pathetic.

I love my sister, but I tell her the plan truth, that they path she is on will lead to hell. I have had atheist friends and muslim friends, and I have told them the truth as well. Its love when you care enough about people that you dont want them to go to hell. How can they know the truth unless someone tell them.

And NO! I am not without sin. I am a sinner. I love Jesus, and his sacrifice is the only thing that makes me in right standing with Father God.

When a christian is off track, a good christian will call them out and point out the errors of their ways so that they can repent. People calling out Obama for his errors as a "christian" is Godly. He needs to repent. I do pray for him and other leaders of this county.

I said this all out of love, even tho it does not appear so. I love Father God so much that I will not let his word be mocked and I love you so much that I am responding to show you that you are off the path that the only way to Father God is Through Jesus.

You have to understand YeshuaWarrior that there are many different interpretations of the Bible and the wording has changed so much, you can not take it literally. It is also not a divinely written book, I'm not going to give you a lesson, but I do hope you understand that many of the Old Testament stories are taken from other beliefs and "myths" as well as historical books. The New Testament was written by the "Christian" movement years after the crucifixion and once again changed throughout the years by councils of bishops and popes. This is why the God of the Old Testament is a violent and vengeful God, and in the New Testament, God is forgiving and a tolerant God. Pretty big contradiction if you ask me.

When you quote John 14:6, I see that Jesus is saying to believe in what he has to say and how to live your lives...remember, there was no such thing as Christianity during the time of Jesus, him and his followers were a small Jewish cult along the lines of the Essenes (Dead Sea Scrolls). The Christian movement came along after with the disciples spreading the word (by the way, Paul and James taught different things and were at odds over Jesus' teachings).

To say that your one view (which is just a small group amongst us christians) is the only way to salvation is extremist...When I read the Bible, go to church, help others, are tolerant of all races and cultures, I know this is what Jesus and the Father has wanted me to do. To say that I am not a christian because I do not have your exact view is ludicrous...thats what extremism is.

Going back to Obama, how dare you judge this man when you do not even know him other than what you see on the media.

1 Peter 3:8-11 Finally, all of you, have unity of mind, sympathy, brotherly love, a tender heart, and a humble mind. Do not repay evil for evil or reviling for reviling, but on the contrary, bless, for to this you were called, that you may obtain a blessing. For “Whoever desires to love life and see good days, let him keep his tongue from evil and his lips from speaking deceit; let him turn away from evil and do good; let him seek peace and pursue it.

Matthew 7:1 “Judge not, that you be not judged.

Acts 10:28 And he said to them, “You yourselves know how unlawful it is for a Jew to associate with or to visit anyone of another nation, but God has shown me that I should not call any person common or unclean.

John 8:7 And as they continued to ask him, he stood up and said to them, “Let him who is without sin among you be the first to throw a stone at her.”


If I do know one thing though, beliefs run deep within us and no matter what we argue, we will both feel that we are in the right. I am passionate about my beliefs as it is obvious that you are passionate about yours.

Originally posted by kinda kurious
I am puzzled as to why you insist on introducing race to the topic?

Don't even try to pull that insinuation with me. That bunk won't work.
HE has mingled his race and his religion. You know it.
Black Liberation Theology. That's his religion (if you can call it that) of choice.
Again .. answer the question ... is it a christian religion or is it a black power cult?
Look at what it says .. change the words from black to white and back again.
Do you call the KKK full of christians in a christian church? If not .. then Obama isn't Christian either.

in the meantime I choose to remain on topic.

You are deflecting and NOT staying on topic if you refuse to acknowledge that he spent 20 years in the black power cult that says they need to 'kill god' if god doesn't bow to their race war. Christians don't go around saying that they will kill god if they don't bow to their political racist views. It doesn't work that way.

Obama claims christian .. but his actions say otherwise.
His religion is 'pander' for election purposes.

reply to post by FlyersFan


Thanks for your reply, I wasted no time in reading it.

reply to post by alienreality


Well, I'm glad to know that you have been ordained (by whom? God?) to be the judge of who is a Christian and who isn't. I have always thought that only God could know what is really in our hearts, and here you're telling us that you can.

In my opinion you're not speaking for God, but I am only a humble Christian who thinks Obama is truly one of us.

In my book, if you believe Jesus Christ is the Son of God and that we are saved by grace then you're a Christian. After that, let God decide who is a pretender and who isn't. I don't feel qualified to judge.

None of us can pretend that we really know what is in another's heart, though I would venture to conclude that yours is a pretty hard one.