This Has To Stop Now

Originally posted by bekod
reply to post by MindSpin

 

do you know what would happen?? i know what would happen but do you? and i am being serious.

Yes, I do...and I don't think it is a good model to follow.

Now tell me...do you think we should use Mexico as our role model on how to run our country?

reply to post by jam321

that is true but not all illegals are drug dealers i am saying to average Joe/ jane land is cheep $1000 there is $10,000 if i understand it right, my understanding is not that good and i have worked with many Mexican's. they do not understand me any better than i do them. do i hate then no do i dislike them , some do i think something needs to be done, you bet!!!

reply to post by MindSpin
no i do not, i can not see being put in prison for ????? for just trying to make it in life but there has got to be a limit come here stay here, work here, speak /learn our language. is that to much to ask????

reply to post by guohua


How does an "illegal" get all these things? You can only get so much on fake ID's...and they try real hard to not get caught and keeping a low-er profile. Sure cant get welfare, S.S. cards, Health care, Credit Cards etc and all else....but I suspect you mean not "illegal immigrants" who really cant get thru all the background checks, ID verifications, residence requirements because they ARE illegal.

But if you mean the ones who are here and living here continually without becoming a citizen, then I agree 110% with you. Illegals cannot get most of this list of yours...they are too busy trying to keep a low profile so they dont have to show their non-existent "green card".

I do see your point about taking jobs and not speaking the language...but as for supporting them? I dont think we really do give them all that much as you listed. If we do? It all has to be with fake ID's and that only goes so far before theyre found out..and kicked out. If you mean LEGAL foreign stay-here-wont go-home-or join-us-either...youre absolutely right.

Loans, housing, health care etc? Doesnt happen. A few, sure.

reply to post by mysterioustranger


They do get all that she listed except for social security cards granted those things that they do gladly receive aren't directly placed into their hands but they do get those perks and all for being criminal. With The drivers license for example, you do not need to show proof of citizenship to obtain one in some states. They also come here and have babys to get the food stamps so that is a way to get around getting government assistance because their babies are considered legal. If you really think about it that is a very rotten way to play the system but I think the government is working on fixing that. Now I'm not saying all illegals do this but a lot of them doing so it is common place.


Hell, even legal immigrants don't pay taxes which is BS. A family member of mine works for an income tax agency and that is what i'm told. Not paying taxes is not contributing to social security that they will probably receive after retirement amongst other things.

Originally posted by myster0
reply to post by sonofliberty1776

 

How is this Obama's fault?

I seem to recall that so far during this administration border security has been bolstered, not only by more fences and personnel, but by robots.

ROBOTS!

Just 1 example? How about the stupid lawsuit against Arizona preventing them from protecting themselves against illegals? Be serious, how can you ask how this is his fault? That stupid lawsuit alone is all the evidence one could need.

Has anyone mentioned that deportation has been higher under Obama than under Bush?

reply to post by Tiste


Thats a very good point about the deportation. But isn't the influx of immigrants also higher now than it was than? That would kind of even things out a little bit I would assume but, we all knows what happens when one assumes. Also, aren't there more people against the deportation now than there were than?

I would also like to point out to pro-illegal immigrants, something to look into... Look at the countries of Europe. Look at their crime rates 10 years ago and than now. You will see a correlation of more immigrants equals higher crime rates and in fact it is the immigrants that fail to assimilate into the society of their new homeland that are committing the bulk of the crimes. I'm pretty sure that some members that live in the U.K. may be able to shed some light on that and correct me if I'm wrong.

I am not against immigration what so ever but I am against illegal immigration. I made the crime rate statement in the above paragraph just as an educational nugget because if you do a little research on it many of you may be surprised.

Illegal Immigration into the US has been an issue my entire life.

For those that remember the Regan years, the US was facing an widespread illegal immigration problem at that time.

The Congress did debate and pass an immigration bill at that time. Sanctuary was give to ALL illegals then. The rhetoric was that those that were here could stay and we would assimilate them into our system, but those who entered after that would be deported. The teeth of the bill was that those who EMPLOYED illegal’s would be committing a felony and the promise was that the Federal Government would prosecute the Employers of illegals to the full extent.

See how well that worked out.

The first REAL large prosecution was TYSON FOODS , Mr. Tyson was looking at some heavy prison time but since he was a friend of Bill Clinton no prison time, just a fine.

So what is the Morale of the story.

Corporations need a supply of cheap labor, since after Civil Rights era Blacks and women have demanded equal pay, corporation look south of the boarder. This too is changing, Corporation have now found a even cheaper labor supply in China.

It is the PLAN of the N W O to have the North American Union. Our Federal Government is fully onboard with this. Illegal Immigration is VITAL for this plan to succeed. So, No matter what LIP SERVICE we hear from our Federal Government they will NEVER fix the boarder issue.

Unfortunately, trying to go the legal route as an immigrant isn't too easy these days. I have a friend who has been in the USA for 8 years on a student visa. If she can't find a job after she graduates, in the line of work that she studied, mind you, she has to go back to her own country within a month of graduating. She is basically an American now, spending most of her "growing up" years here in the States. She speaks better English than she does Spanish at this point.
Just saying...
I am not supporting illegal immigrants here as I have to wonder if they aren't partly to blame for her difficulties...
It is just sad that those who want to stay and have followed the laws since day one, can not....

Not ALL illegal immigrants commit other crimes while here. We all know this. We have illegal immigrants from all over the world. Most are hard working people trying to make a better life for themselves and their families. There are many who commit crimes, and unfortunately the majority of these are from Mexico and many other countries to our south. If you doubt this, look at the prison populations broken down by ethnicity. This one group has sky rocketed in our prisons, and along with them, the influx and influence of Hispanic gangs in our prisons and society as a whole. I know, we would have gangs if they were not here. True.

So, what if they weren't here? Yes, many crimes would not have been committed. Many lives would be saved. Who is responsible for these problems? The representatives and senators we all keep sending to Washington. They have no desire to fix this problem. It benefits their main contributors. They do all they can to make it easier for illegal immigrants to live here. Most any form we fill out has English and Spanish printed on it. Interpreters are supplied for those who can't read English or Spanish, and of course those who can't speak English. We sit idly by and let it continue.

I worked for over 20 years in the Texas prison system. Every aspect was directed toward making life easier and more comfortable for Spanish speaking individuals. All the forms in Spanish were a joke...most couldn't read or write Spanish. Someone had to translate and then fill out the form for them. English as a Second Language classes were offered, but most refused to take them, or used class time to pass information to other parts of the prison. They had no desire to assimilate into our society, and demanded we honor theirs. They could not understand the concept of earning respect. They demanded respect up front or face the consequences. I and many of my staff learned Spanish in order to be effective in our jobs.

Name me ONE country who goes to the extremes America has gone to accommodate one group of people who have entered their country illegally? Do we want to look to the rest of the world as an example of how to address our own problems? At some point America is going to have to quit worrying what the other countries think of us, and realize it is time to FIX some of these problems NOW! Shut our borders by any means necessary, address the illegals here. Either deport them, or find a way for them to EARN the PRIVILEGE of being an American. Only then can we return to a time when America said "give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses, yearning to breathe free ".

reply to post by kimish

Hell, even legal immigrants don't pay taxes which is BS. A family member of mine works for an income tax agency and that is what i'm told. Not paying taxes is not contributing to social security that they will probably receive after retirement amongst other things

Yes they pay taxes...or do you think businesses can just magically make money dissapear from their books?

They don't file a tax return (duh)...but that doesn't mean they don't pay taxes.

reply to post by MindSpin


Of course they pay taxes, just about everything you buy is taxed. That is my fault, I should have been more specific. I'm meaning that a person making 1000 dollars a wk gross and not having federal or state tax being withheld from their paychecks. Most if not all Illegals work under the table so there isn't a chance in Hell that they pay taxes except for what they are taxed when they buy something.

Let me ask you this, with our country (U.S.) all about "affirmative action" and "equal opportunity" what makes immigrants soo special that they don't have to file a tax return? That is not equal to me and everybody else filing a tax return. Isn't that a bit hypocritical? I think so. Who else agrees?

P.S. I once was a manager and I did the hiring and all the paper work for employees to get hired and blah blah blah and I also know business owners. I know damn well that business' don't get incentives for hiring naturalized citizens which often times makes an under-qualified candidate that is an immigrant more appealing to hire than a qualified natural citizen. That topic itself deserves its own debate.

Evidently I struck a nerve on you and for that I am sincerely sorry. Are you yourself an "illegal", are you emotionally attached to an illegal immigrant? Because I don't understand how I've gotten soo deep under your skin.

Originally posted by IAMIAM

Originally posted by kimish
Especially when I have mouths to feed and I am barely making it (only making it btw from family handouts, hell i'm on my mothers computer) and criminals are getting free government handouts when I am a productive member of society and I am denied this help which would help my children live a better life and Im sure as hell that my two boys will become productive members of society and not criminals. (note I say sure and not %100 positive) I have no problem with helping people, I am a people pleaser but damn come here legally like others.

Here is the crux of the issue my friend. This is really where your rage comes from. Immigrants have been coming and going across our southern borders since this country was founded. The only reason, the ONLY reason you are enraged about it now is because YOU are struggling economically and to divert the attention from the real criminals, the immigrants are being made the scape goat.

Your Government is the one waging the drug war which fuels the gang violence. Your government is the one allowing the banks to hold you down financially. Your government is the one who is making your life miserable.

Look around you, don't we have resources in this country?
Don't we have factories sitting idle?
Don't we have workers needing work?

resources+factories+workers=production !

IamIam you write eloquently; and with a calm measured tone; that said; I am admittedly trolling this reply for details.

"resources+factories+workers=production !" You left out the "MARKETS" for said production. Nobody has any disposable income to buy your "artificially suppressed" production. Holding hands and singing "kumbaya" is not an answer: Its just not that simple.

Originally posted by IAMIAM
What are we missing? MONEY
What is money? The ILLUSION

Try not to get to attached to being "American" my friend. The new term for the age is Man. It is coming and there is nothing that can stand in its way.

Ha (snake tongue!)...Welcome these new oppressors and all their double speak?

Originally posted by IAMIAM
Throw down your oppressor and be ready to be liberated.

"Liberated"?? Our oppressors are coming and they've taken off the gloves;sharpened their tactics; and oiled their locks and chains "comrade"

Originally posted by IAMIAM
Just an opinion, and I am not trying to change yours. Hold on for the ride though, it is gonna get a little bumpy.

In the mean time, bless you for working so hard for the boys. I know it isn't easy right now. Draw close to family, bring friends together and buckle down. Try getting a bunch of families together for meals. There is a multiplication affect to more people eating at meals, especially if you have potluck dinners. Have a couple families in your neighborhood get together and each bring a dish for the meals. You will find you food stretches the more that participate.

Times are only going to get tougher for America. I am not saying this for any other reason than for you to be prepared. Be prepared mentally and spiritually.

With Love,

Your Brother

Originally posted by MindSpin
reply to post by guohua

 

Blaming members of a group for an individuals action may make you feel better...it may give you an outlet to direct your anger towards...but it will never bring back your loved one.

"illegals" didn't kill a loved one...an individual person did. That person alone is responsible for the action...not any group they belonged to.

Would it make anyone feel better if their loved one was killed by an American citizen rather than an "illegal"??? If so...that is kind of twisted.

Quote from: MindSpin ["Blaming members of a group for an individuals action may make you feel better...it may give you an outlet to direct your anger towards...but it will never bring back your loved one."] My answer:
YES it does as lone as they are here illegally and run away instead of taking their punishment in our Judicial System. It's not so much Anger or Hate as it is a Sick Feeling that there are peoples Sucking the Life Out Of American Citizens and Not Caring About The Damage They Have Caused. It also makes me Sick to know that there are a group of peoples in America that want Open Borders and don't believe that our laws should be Respected and Obeyed!

Quote from: MindSpin ["illegals" didn't kill a loved one...an individual person did. That person alone is responsible for the action...not any group they belonged to.'] My answer: I suppose breaking our Laws by entering our Country illegally and Disrespecting the Family Members by not saying your Sorry but Running for the Border, That does not that person an Individual in my way of thinking, That person is a Cold Hearted Criminal and that person falls back on a group of individuals to protect them.

As far as your last question and my answer, at least an American Citizen would have a hard time running for the border and hiding there, That American Citizen would morre than likely go to court and to prison.

Take any and all Open Border and Sanctuary Cities Attitudes way of thinking to some one who believes that CRAP!
You come across our border and don't have the proper documentation, You're and illegal and you've already committed a Crime Against the People Of America. The People of America have some of the Laxest Laws when it comes to entering our country illegally, That is a fact!
No One As Said We Wanted Our Laws To Be Like Mexico's or My Old Home Land Of China,,,

reply to post by guohua


Maybe Mindspin should try to illegally enter China and live there. Just a thought

Eventually, there will be so many illegal immigrants from Mexico here, that the North American Union will be the only way to resolve it. You can thank G.W. Bush and his good buddy Vicente Fox for this. These 'south of the border' illegals are here by design. Their presence lowers the cost of menial jobs as well as threatening the paycheques of the American working class. The current administration will continue the laissez faire immigration policy just as they continued most other policies from the previous administration. Change is a myth. Nothing will be done. Illegal Mexicans have come so far north in the last 10 years that they are now entering Canada.

The American people are being told Muslims are the problem when really the problem is all around them. It's probably in their front yard raking leaves for a price no fellow American could compete with. Plenty of middle class Americans are to blame also. Why are your landscapers not American? Why can't they even speak English and why are they wilfully ignorant or even contemptuous of American culture? The answer is simple .................. you took the "cheap" option in order to procure a service that would probably lie beyond your means if it was to be performed by an American.

Employers are guilty here too. Twelve years ago, every home where I live was landscaped by Americans. Now it is 90% Mexicans, either illegal or on H2B visas which are as bad if not worse. Of course most of the landscape company owners are Americans who do very well from it by charging their clients top dollar while paying their immigrant employees a slave wage. It's not hard to see where the problems lie. A new and culturally different underclass is being created, from which the only escape is to "breed in" to America as quickly as possible, ie Anchor Babies and lots of them.

reply to post by kimish

I'm meaning that a person making 1000 dollars a wk gross and not having federal or state tax being withheld from their paychecks. Most if not all Illegals work under the table so there isn't a chance in Hell that they pay taxes except for what they are taxed when they buy something.

Are you trying to suggest that "illegals" make $52,000 a year???

Yes...they do work "under the table", but clearly you don't know what that means. Let's say a business hires 10 "illegals"...and pays them each $100 (not $1000 ) a week. Do you just think that the business can somehow hide $1000 a week in their books? $52,000 a year?

No...so they do it in a few ways. One, they can use a fake SSN and report the wages of $1000 a week to the IRS under that one fake SSN. All taxes are taken out of that...and the rest is distributed to the 10 "illegals" working for the business. Another way they can do it is to have a "legal" worker and pay them "double"...give them a little kickback and take the rest of the money and distribute it to the 10 "illegals". It's not rocket science.

But the point is that all money paid out to "illegals" is still reported to the IRS and all taxes (Federal/State Income tax, medicare, social security, unemployment) is paid on that money. The IRS actually makes out fairly well on this, because like I said no "illegal" is going to file a tax return using that fake SSN...and so the IRS gets to keep the overage paid in taxes.

You seem to have a very simplistic view on how the world works...and thus are confused about the state of affairs.

Let me ask you this, with our country (U.S.) all about "affirmative action" and "equal opportunity" what makes immigrants soo special that they don't have to file a tax return? That is not equal to me and everybody else filing a tax return. Isn't that a bit hypocritical? I think so. Who else agrees?

Like I explained above, them not filing a tax return is not a benefit to them. The IRS gets to pocket the overages paid that would normally be paid back to a tax payer due to deductions and credits.

If you pay your taxes and don't want your refund...feel free not to file a tax return...the IRS will gladly keep your money.

P.S. I once was a manager and I did the hiring and all the paper work for employees to get hired and blah blah blah and I also know business owners. I know damn well that business' don't get incentives for hiring naturalized citizens which often times makes an under-qualified candidate that is an immigrant more appealing to hire than a qualified natural citizen. That topic itself deserves its own debate.

You completely lost me on this little rant. I feel like you are a little angry and not thinking straight...please calm down and try to clearly re-iterate your point.

Evidently I struck a nerve on you and for that I am sincerely sorry. Are you yourself an "illegal", are you emotionally attached to an illegal immigrant? Because I don't understand how I've gotten soo deep under your skin.

I think you may be confused again. No one is under my skin...I'm just replying to angry rants about non-justified hatred towards a group of people.

If it makes you feel better to attempt to label me as an "illegal"...feel free to do so. But is it so hard to understand that someone can sympathize with an "illegals" situation of wanting to provide a better life for their family?

reply to post by guohua


Like I said...you can continue to blame a group for the actions of individuals...that just means you are an active stereotyper and discriminate against people.

If that is how you want to live your life...then so be it.

Originally posted by MindSpin
reply to post by randyvs

 

You know what the difference is don't you? Ops talking about what's happening right now to people who are alive.
No we shouldn't forget the past. But that was a way different conglamoration of people.. There are millions of people here now who had nothing to do with the way this country was founded.

And there are many "illegal" immigrants here that have absolutely nothing to do with other "illegal" immigrants that have killed people.

The OP is focusing on the fact that they are "illegal" in order to push their agenda of a crusade against "illegals". They are using the deaths of American citizens as political fodder for their own cause. Let's attempt to demonize thousands of hard working, innocent people that are trying to provide a better life for their families by trying to lump them together with murderers.

How about we just call these individuals that have killed people murderers and leave it at that. How about we don't try to spread fear and propaganda about ALL immigrants becasue of the actions of individuals who are murderers.


Let's attempt to demonize thousands of hard working, innocent people that are trying to provide a better life for their families by trying to lump them together with murderers.

And as long as we are on the topic of people that had "nothing to do" with past actions of their ancestors...I guess that means that me and you can agree that the children of "illegals" shouldn't be punished for the actions of their parents....RIGHT????

Yes there are many illegal immigrants here that have absolutely nothing to do with other illegal immigrants that have killed people. There are many as I have stated before that lie and say they are a one income home and get welfare, when in reality they are a two income household making above the poverty limit who are stealing because they make too much money to even be elegible for these benefits. There are those who steal identities, those that pay for false documentations to get what they want. All of these are still crimes and illegal.

You speak of me demonize thousands of hard working, innocent people that are trying to provide a better life for their families by trying to lump them together with murderers. Fact is that we have murderers who are illegal. Fact is that these thousands of hard working "innocent" people" that you speak of are not innocent. They know full well that they are replacing a hard working legal citizen in the job market. Fact is that we have millions of unemployed legal citizens who would have a job if it wasn't for the millions of illegals who have taken those jobs.

These illegals who have lied and cheated the system have taken the place of legal citizens, many who have fallen through the cracks and are worried sick about providing for their families. What gives them the right to boldly shove aside any American citizen????? What about the citizen who has worked hard their entire lives and now have nothing because of these illegals? They have lost their homes, jobs, medical and are forced to pay for these illegals through their tax dollars when they can't afford to have their own needs met!!!!!! Is this fair? Is this right?