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How do we know what the truth is?

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posted on Feb, 3 2011 @ 10:30 AM
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So yeah when we hear something lets say from a story teller sitting around a campfire. How would we know if his story is true or he is justa good story teller? Once more is there an absolute universal truth out there? I know I am not supplying alot of opinion right here.

I think what real truth is has to do with having a paradigm shift. Take for example one of the famous of all paradigm shifts. Galileo Vs the church in whether or not the earth is round or flat and we revolve around the sun or not. This was a person saying his truth against what was the commonly believed perception about the truth of the earth. (Now history wise I am not sure if the church turly believed the Earth was round or didn;t just want to get caught with their pants down.) Anyways he created a paradigm shift where mass people confirm an idea that has a change on life. That might not be the exact definition of a paradigm shift I was talking with a SCIENTIST AND SHE WAS TELLING ME THATS WHAT SHE THOUGHT IT WAS.

So I went to the dictionary and what it is saying 1. the true or actual state of matter: he tried to find out the truth 2 conformity with fact or reality; verity: the truth of a statement. 3 a verified or indisputable fact,proposition, principle or the like: mathemetical truths.

So can we find out if someone is telling the truth by body language or some physical tell like poker players use? Is there a physical manifestation of truth or out being of truth? And if someone says there is well I just let Aristotle handle that. He ahs some sage words on that.

So i heard this qoute on a radio show. "that the truth has a certain ring to it." That if you have someone saying lies and anothe rperson saying something true won't more people gop to what is true?? And what is that certain ring that we would hear??

How do we know what the truth is?





posted on Feb, 3 2011 @ 10:34 AM
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reply to post by American-philosopher
 


Truth is an individual conclusion after unique filters are applied.

I'd say agreement is more apt than truth being the same for any two people.



posted on Feb, 3 2011 @ 10:38 AM
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reply to post by zroth
 

Do you mean like how you telll if something is bueatiful or what beauty is? Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and there is usually a consensus on what is beautiful by alot of peole agreeing right?



posted on Feb, 3 2011 @ 10:39 AM
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reply to post by American-philosopher
 

Truth is a journey.

You can start to approach it by remaining open-minded and having the wherewithal to hold multiple viewpoints in your . at the same time, playing with and nurturing them until contradictions arise. Read much, study deeply a philosophy that you fancy, as if you were going to "sign on" to it, but once you are through with studying it find another and do the same.

Ultimately, though, you must look within. The intellectual work described in the last paragraph, if pursued honestly, will force you to realize this.



posted on Feb, 3 2011 @ 10:45 AM
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reply to post by NewlyAwakened
 


I agree with you that being able to detect what is true and what is not true is a journey that oen must go within to hone your skill and abilities. But I think there might be a truth out there that is established already. When you frirst coem into this world is there justa question mark for you or is something already established?



posted on Feb, 3 2011 @ 10:47 AM
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This is a question which boggled the mind since the invention of lies. My take on it is there are always 3 sides to the coin. 1-You perseptions of what occured. 2-Their perseption on what occured. 3-And the facts. But as for truth, I think in depends. I agree with zroth's statement.



posted on Feb, 3 2011 @ 10:47 AM
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Originally posted by American-philosopher
.line]How do we know what the truth is?


Through verification I would think. If he is telling real stories then seek proof. If no proof is within seekers grasp then go on insinct.



posted on Feb, 3 2011 @ 10:53 AM
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reply to post by Ophiuchus 13
 


Why not switch up the order and rely on instinct first?



posted on Feb, 3 2011 @ 10:57 AM
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reply to post by American-philosopher
 


I enjoyed your post


Marilyn Manson has a great quote- "But what's real? You can't find the truth, you just pick the lie you like the best"

How does ANYONE know ANYTHING??? I can go on millions of websites, newspapers, etc. that tell me one thing, and millions more that will contradict what I just read.



posted on Feb, 3 2011 @ 11:15 AM
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I once believed that Mathmatics was the only real truth in the universe, and that we all had our separate and unique truths depending on our experiences. That to argue over truth was like trying to compare apples and oranges.

I believe when it comes to great truths, or people telling me or everyone the "truth", it does have a "ring" or a feeling inside, to it. When we hear it, we just "know". Lies are not so easy, often, we want to believe. I do think that lies have a "ring" also and bother us, our minds, or deeper selves, just won't let it rest. Like a bad tooth we can't keep our tongue away from, we keep coming back to the lie, worring it, turning it over, thinking about it. Like President Kennedy's death, and other conspiracies, it just won't go away. Imo, it is because we still have not heard the truth.

I think there are Truths in Physics, Philosophy and Psychology that are always true.

Great thread, Thank you so much for posting it. F&S.



posted on Feb, 3 2011 @ 11:19 AM
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"Truth" has become a subjective term. It used to hold more clout in our society, but that was back when we still spoke English in America. That was before most of the people on this website were born. I understand what you mean when you ask "Is there a universal truth?" however, truth is no longer the best word to use as it has become entirely too corrupted by Americans own unwillingness to get an education. It''s kinda like when people say "I believe in God." If they are a westerner, there is better than an 80% chance that what they really mean is "I believe in believing in God because of the social benefits it gives me in this society."

People who are looking for a "universal truth" are more often than not simply seeking to have their own ideas and opinions validated as fact under the guise of truth. Truth is subjective. Truth is whatever you (the individual) want it to be. For the evangelical Christian, truth is in making the verbal statement that you accept Christ as your personal lord and savior and anything that doesn't fit into that mold is false (and often "of the devil"). For the 9/11 truther (wow, there's a lot of different kinds of truthers out there and they all have their own version of "truth") the idea that 9/11 was entirely a US Government sponsored inside job is absolute truth. Anything that counters that is a conspiracy of the NWO or Illuminati....even if the person is partially agreeing with them.

Mankind has been asking a version of your question since the beginning. Why am I here? Is there a reason for all of this? Am I alone? There is nothing set in stone for your journey, as it is yours to take. You are the one who carves the history of your journey into the stone tablets of collective human memory. There are a few basic facts that one must accept and contend with (and a lot of people can't do this, or won't):
1. You exist.
2. You have several physical sense receptive organs
3. You are aware of the fact that you exist and that others acknowledge your existence too by interacting with you.
4. You will have to interact with other humans throughout the course of your life, most of whom you will probably dislike.
5. There are no living humans who can describe accurately what happens after death (no one has really come back to tell the tale, although a lot have lied about it and a few of those built entire religions off it.)
6. No one can make your mind up for you (although you will go through life trying to get that to happen)
7. Many will try and trick you into believing that they have the authority to make your mind up for you.
8. You will have opportunities in life to do good and/or bad things for good and/or bad reasons which will have good and/or bad outcomes. It is solely up to you what you choose to do, and you have no choice but to live with the consequences of those decisions.

Truth is subjective and requires attachment to the individual concept of truth.

Facts are objective, and one must remain detached from a situation (even when in the middle of it) to be able to discern the facts from the many "truths."

Discernment is a skill that we are born with, but most of us forget it as a result of a flawed upbringing by ignorant parents. Most people are unable to penetrate that veil of forgetting and go right along with what they were taught and fed by their parents and peers.

In conclusion, there is no truth. It is a phantom. You'll waste your life away trying to figure out "what is truth." Truth is an oil painting. Facts are a mirror. Which one are you going to trust to give an accurate depiction of you?



posted on Feb, 3 2011 @ 11:24 AM
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Originally posted by American-philosopher
reply to post by Ophiuchus 13
 


Why not switch up the order and rely on instinct first?


Its hard for some to rely on instinct my friend. So I suggested verification first for those who have issues excepting what their instinct is telling them...



posted on Feb, 3 2011 @ 05:13 PM
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Truth is subjective. Truth is whatever you (the individual) want it to be.
reply to post by Control
 


I don;t know if I agree with that. One of the reasons why people lie is because they are afraid to face the truth.



posted on Feb, 3 2011 @ 05:19 PM
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3 a verified or indisputable fact,proposition, principle or the like: mathemetical truths.
reply to post by American-philosopher
 


How is this even right. What if you are living in Orwells 1984 and there is just a rebranding of everything by the state and they say 2+3=6. And the numbers are all switched around to accordingly to their value.



posted on Feb, 3 2011 @ 05:23 PM
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Truth does exist, but you won't find many folks on this board who will agree to it as being a definite qualification. On this board, truth is a point of view. A perspective. I know. I've had this pissing contest already, and you're asking the wrong people if you want to know what truth actually is.

There is relative truth - the kind of truth that represents a moment in the relationship between this and that, but only during a particular moment in the relationship between the two. That's actually called "contextual juxtaposition", but if you want to call it truth, then go a.. It's not like it matters what you decide to call something if what you claim means nothing to anyone else anyway.

Then, there is absolute truth, but be careful in using the word absolute around semantics enthusiasts. Their fun in life is fighting over whether you have the right to use a word in a narrowly defined manner or not - even when you were the one who wrote the sentence, and used the word properly within that sentence. That sort of thing doesn't matter to semantics enthusiasts. They live to simply piss you off over useless arguments that achieve nothing whatsoever and enlighten no one.

Absolute truth does exist, and the proof that it does exist is that physical existence became stable enough for something as insanely sophisticated as your own corporeal brain to develop to the point where you are capable of wondering if truth exists. That kind of existential stability is impossible unless there is a truth that is just as stable and just as immutable. Don't expect any agreement here though. Most of these geniuses actually believe that the moon ceases to physically exist if no one is looking at it, only to suddenly exist again when someone bothers to look up again. I guess they see it as the light in the refrigerator, but to be honest, I have no idea how these people see anything. They're a complete mystery to me.

You can't "sense" someone telling the truth. People honestly believe all kinds of stupid things, and they really believe that they're being honest and truthful when they're completely lost in delusion. There are other people who truly think that truth is elastic, and that it exists to serve them - reconfiguring reality as they simply imagine that reality to exist at that specific moment. You'll "sense" them to be telling you the truth too. And why not? They don't understand what truth actually is, so in their minds, they're being truthful.

In the end, truth is a concrete, immutable definition of what is as opposed to what isn't. Reality is the definitive comparison, and logic is how truth is determined. Any other method of establishing truth simply isn't a method at all. And it doesn't reveal truth. When you get to dealing with the kind of existential staple that truth is, it all gets really simple.



posted on Feb, 3 2011 @ 05:31 PM
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Originally posted by American-philosopher

How do we know what the truth is?



The TRUTH must examine its own argument.
edit on 3-2-2011 by RRokkyy because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 3 2011 @ 06:11 PM
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If your not sure what truth is than how would you know what a lie is?



posted on Feb, 3 2011 @ 06:15 PM
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Jesus said "I am the way, the life, and the truth" as if it's a state of mind or a way of being..



posted on Feb, 4 2011 @ 03:57 AM
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reply to post by American-philosopher
 


In my honest opinion, Truth is found within each and everyone of us, everyone and everything must be examined carefully before we start looking for it.
edit on 4-2-2011 by franspeakfree because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 4 2011 @ 05:03 AM
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reply to post by NorEaster
 


i am actually starting to become insulted by your manner. do you honestly believe that you are the only person to ever fill up notebooks full of drawings and writings in an attempt to come up with a fully abstracted model of reality? the way that you toy with the people on this board (by asking questions that you already have solved to your own satisfaction, and then playing aloof as though you are actually interested in whatever anyone else has to say), smacks of a tortured and perpetually misunderstood teenager.

so, that being said, i find your use of the term "Absolute Logic" appalling. i think that it is the most basic flaw in your thinking. and if you continue to think in this manner, you will never become successful at solving the riddle of existence.

it is simply not possible for anything such as "Absolute Logic" to exist, as this would require reality to be "built UP" from the bottom from perfect clarity to increasing levels of vagueness.

luckily, the most recent studies on the human brain and the nature of consciousness are showing that reality, as perceived by the human mind, is "built DOWN", starting at vagueness and only becoming more clear after repeated renderings. (drawing below depicts this type of detection algorithm)





...More generally, dynamic logic describes interaction between bottom-up and top-down signals (to simplify, signals from sensor organs, and signals from memory). Mental representations in memory, sources of top-down signals, are vague; during perception and cognition processes they interact with bottom-up signals, and evolve into crisp mental representations; crispness of the final states correspond to crispness of the bottom-up representations...

taken from THIS ARTICLE.



i really appreciate the monumental effort that you make to get people on this board to sharpen up their arguments. but i will caution you that your espoused infallability can be overturned in a heartbeat.


...best




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