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It appears George W Bush was correct about freedom in the middle east

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posted on Feb, 3 2011 @ 12:43 PM
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Originally posted by hp1229

Originally posted by drkylefletcher
I'm gonna take a wild guess that maybe the CIA had something to do with the uprising in Egypt.

Edit: Let me clarify that I'm stating the possibility.
edit on 3-2-2011 by drkylefletcher because: (no reason given)


CIA always has something to do with politics Directly or In-Directly. It all depends (benefits) when their need is called for. Why would they risk their resources for a failing dictator?
Let the media and internet do the trick this time.


Thank you for stating what I could not.




posted on Feb, 3 2011 @ 12:44 PM
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Originally posted by drkylefletcher

Originally posted by MrXYZ

Originally posted by drkylefletcher
I'm gonna take a wild guess that maybe the CIA had something to do with the uprising in Egypt.

Edit: Let me clarify that I'm stating the possibility.
edit on 3-2-2011 by drkylefletcher because: (no reason given)


100% definitely not...as horrible as Mubarak was, he was doing exactly what the US wanted him to do. Why on earth would they want to remove him? Can't be because of human rights as they tolerated and paid his torture regime for 30+ years now...


as stated earlier in this thread

Originally posted by hp1229

The truth of the matter is that Mubaarak's son is/was not interested in running his country of Egypt. TPTB needed a new face/successor to Mubaarak (who is also someone with a military background and was picked by military). This will be going on for a while and eventually it will be filled with another puppet. The rioters will go back to their homes once they get their butt kicked around a bit in the prisons by secret police and the puppet masters. Eventually the media will slow the coverage down or twist the story completely all around and all over the world that it will be forgotten just before the new face is put in place

edit on 3-2-2011 by drkylefletcher because: (no reason given)


Definitely yes but CIA wouldnt waste their resources for something that can be accomplished by others/parties who requested/dreamed to replace a failed/failing dictator for 30 years
With globalization there are lots of powerful propoganda tools. Internet (Facebook) are just few
besides ofcourse Television.



posted on Feb, 3 2011 @ 12:46 PM
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Originally posted by HoldTheBeans
I remember people calling Bush a fool for thinking that freedom could spread in the middle east. Show them Iraq can have freedom from Sadaam and others will follow.



Muslim Brotherhood wants end to Egypt-Israeli peace deal

Egypt's banned Muslim Brotherhood movement has unveiled its plans to scrap a peace treaty with Israel if it comes to power, a deputy leader said in an interview with NHK TV.

Rashad al-Bayoumi said the peace treaty with Israel will be abolished after a provisional government is formed by the movement and other Egypt's opposition parties.

"After President Mubarak steps down and a provisional government is formed, there is a need to dissolve the peace treaty with Israel," al-Bayoumi said.
En.Rian.Ru



Jordan's Muslim Brotherhood: Arabs will topple U.S.-backed tyrants

Hammam Saeed says Arabs have grown disgruntled with U.S. domination of their oil wealth, military occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan and its support for totalitarian leaders in the region.
Haaretz




Um...so kudos to Mr. Bush for having something happen he didn't really want?

- Lee



posted on Feb, 3 2011 @ 12:47 PM
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Originally posted by HoldTheBeans

Originally posted by drkylefletcher
I'm gonna take a wild guess that maybe the CIA had something to do with the uprising in Egypt.


Why would the CIA create an uprising in a country who is our military ally?


Why indeed?

These guys have involvement even in places like Britain, in some cases even in opposition to our OWN intel...



posted on Feb, 3 2011 @ 12:53 PM
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Originally posted by Flatfish
If I didn't know better, I'd say this sounds a lot like the call for change heard in the U.S. that led to the election of Barak Obama and nothing like the illegal Iraq war instigated by G.W. Bush, where he intended to replace Saddam with another puppet president chosen by America's ruling elite in order to insure future U.S. access to their oil. If anything, the egyptian uprising just proves how WRONG Bush was as it clearly demonstrates that we don't have to sacrifice our sons and daughters to overthrow a dictator, all we have to do is to quit supporting the dictator and the people will do the rest.


Amen to that.
Starred.

- Lee



posted on Feb, 3 2011 @ 01:05 PM
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Originally posted by hp1229

Definitely yes but CIA wouldnt waste their resources for something that can be accomplished by others/parties who requested/dreamed to replace a failed/failing dictator for 30 years
With globalization there are lots of powerful propoganda tools. Internet (Facebook) are just few
besides ofcourse Television.


Just for reference in agreement with your post:
blogs.suntimes.com... egy.html



posted on Feb, 3 2011 @ 02:05 PM
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Originally posted by lee anoma

Originally posted by HoldTheBeans
I remember people calling Bush a fool for thinking that freedom could spread in the middle east. Show them Iraq can have freedom from Sadaam and others will follow.



Muslim Brotherhood wants end to Egypt-Israeli peace deal

Egypt's banned Muslim Brotherhood movement has unveiled its plans to scrap a peace treaty with Israel if it comes to power, a deputy leader said in an interview with NHK TV.

Rashad al-Bayoumi said the peace treaty with Israel will be abolished after a provisional government is formed by the movement and other Egypt's opposition parties.

"After President Mubarak steps down and a provisional government is formed, there is a need to dissolve the peace treaty with Israel," al-Bayoumi said.
En.Rian.Ru



Jordan's Muslim Brotherhood: Arabs will topple U.S.-backed tyrants

Hammam Saeed says Arabs have grown disgruntled with U.S. domination of their oil wealth, military occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan and its support for totalitarian leaders in the region.
Haaretz


Um...so kudos to Mr. Bush for having something happen he didn't really want?

- Lee




The muslim brotherhood is not really a influential party to be honest. Surely they are being used as well for now to show something worthwhile to look at as per possible influential party in the region. More like Rev Al-Sharpton led party type


MB



posted on Feb, 3 2011 @ 02:23 PM
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Originally posted by beezzer
In order to apply the title of this thread, the first thing should be, "What precipitated this "revolt"?" What started it? What was the first thing that got this ball rolling?

Was it for freedom?
Was it becuase of a new law?
Did someone get treated unjustly?
Did someone get a parking ticket?
Did a butterfly flap its wings in Mongolia and that, through a series of events, cause this?

Forgive my ignorance. But what started this?

Find THAT answer, and you'll have the reason for this movement.

In my humble opinion, of course.


Very short simplified story

Initially this current revolution we see today in Egypt started with the help of Egypt's tech-savvy youth and blogosphere.

2006-07 a few of them decided to drop their masks, and said; screw the dictatorship and started to write with their own full names about the corrupt dictatorship and developments in Egypt in a very clever way for both the domestic Egyptians and Egyptian readers living abroad.

They also wrote blogs in English to tell the world about the crimes which the regime was guilty of doing in the name of the dictatorship.

By doing this their message went out to a huge audience with readers both in Egypt and abroad.

Most Egyptian readers from all walks of life on the Internet with their own experiences could easily identify themselves with the young bloggers and their writings about the corrupt dictatorship and the NDP.

They wanted freedom from the oppressive regime!

From there it grow to a non-political grassroot movement with only one goal - to get rid of the oppressive dictatorship and demand democracy.

These bloggers were of course arrested by the vile security forces and tortured, but later after a few months they were released and were blogging once again, this time often about their time in jail.

And then this internet and mouth-to-mouth grassroot movement was growing and growing with social media up to a boiling point when the people finally said with one voice - enough is enough! screw this damn dictatorship!

Short thereafter Tunisia happened - and here they are today! in a middle of a revolution!



posted on Feb, 3 2011 @ 03:24 PM
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Originally posted by HoldTheBeans
I remember people calling Bush a fool for thinking that freedom could spread in the middle east.


I remember people making a case that the USA could not spread democracy by bombing the hell out of a country and invading it. Imperialism/Nation building...

Organic uprisings vs. invasion....It's a night and day distinction.


Originally posted by HoldTheBeans
Show them Iraq can have freedom from Sadaam and others will follow.


Wow...OK....Yah..everyone in the middle east takes a look at Iraq and says, I want me some of that!..

Iraq...We toppled the government, bombed, ivnvaded and occupied Iraq

Egypt...US Ally, Jordan US Ally, Tunesia: US Ally, Suadi Arabia: US Ally

Get it? One we went to war with...the others we SUPPORT those regimes and Change/democracy/revolution is occuring within these US supported regimes IN SPITE OF THE USA, NOT BECAUSE OF IT.


Originally posted by HoldTheBeans
It appears that strategy has taken hold in many middle eastern countries here lately.


What strategy?...To be invaded and occupied?

The only difference between Saddam and Mubarak is that Sadamn stopped taking orders from the USA...while the regimes in Egypt, Tunesia, Saudi Arabia etc. (Our Middle Eastern dictator "Friends") still did what we told them.

Iraq is not remotely relevant to Egypt, in fact it is a case study in how NOT to spread democracy.
edit on 3-2-2011 by maybereal11 because: (no reason given)

edit on 3-2-2011 by maybereal11 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 3 2011 @ 06:03 PM
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The wisdom of George Bush: invade Iraq and Afghanistan to overthrow dictators installed by previous administrations.

Not sure where "freedom" enters into the equation with regards to George Bush. First, install and arm a dictator in Iraq. Once he stops cooperating, attack him, enforce a no fly zone and sanctions, then attack again. This time destroying the infrastructure, killing hundreds of thousands all the while using thousands of tons of radioactive Depleted Uranium. But wait, theres more. The perpetrators of these crimes against humanity are there to stay, forever.

Hopefully youre right. As the Egyptians are rallying against their US backed dictator, maybe the Iraqis will once again rally to be freed from American occupation as they did in 2003 days after Bush declared "mission accomplished", chanting "no to Saddam no to America".



posted on Feb, 3 2011 @ 06:06 PM
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reply to post by HoldTheBeans
 


Did someone hack your account? Two days ago, you were ranting about the protesters being Muslim Brotherhood and that the US must stand behind Mubarak. Now you are saying that people are fighting for freedom in the Middle East.
edit on 3-2-2011 by InvisibleAlbatross because: spelling



posted on Feb, 3 2011 @ 07:38 PM
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Originally posted by hp1229
The muslim brotherhood is not really a influential party to be honest. Surely they are being used as well for now to show something worthwhile to look at as per possible influential party in the region. More like Rev Al-Sharpton led party type


MB


Sure, and like Hamas , they'd have no chance of being elected into a position of power in the middle-east due to their extreme beliefs.

Oh wait...


So again, Bush is to be credited for having one of the stronger supporters of the U.S. in the middle-east (whom we paid billions to annually by the way) kicked out, and leaving a vacuum for groups like the Brotherhood to inevitably fill.

Oh and making our ally Israel quit worried.


US response to Egypt draws criticism in Israel

"I don't think the Americans understand yet the disaster they have pushed the Middle East into," said lawmaker Binyamin Ben-Eliezer, who until recently was a Cabinet minister and who is a longtime friend of Mubarak.

"If there are elections like the Americans want, I wouldn't be surprised if the Muslim Brotherhood didn't win a majority, it would win half of the seats in parliament," he told Army Radio.

"It will be a new Middle East, extremist radical Islam."

Jpost


But okay, credit Bush for the current destabilization, sweeping anti-U.S./Israel sentiment and possible radicalization of Egypt, because he invaded Iraq.


Binyamin Ben-Eliezer is right.

Apparently most Americans don't understand what is going on.

- Lee
edit on 3-2-2011 by lee anoma because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 3 2011 @ 09:23 PM
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the only reason egypt is on the verge of democracy is because obama is righting america's wrongs, like he said he would.

i'm pretty sure he abandoned egypt and told mubarak that he's on his own. if bush were still president, this would have been squashed at the beginning thru arrests, torture and executions.

mubarak is completely powerless without u.s. support. nations, like people, are tough when they have an 800 lb gorilla watching their back.

the same thing would happen to israel if america abandoned netanyahu. the military occupation would end and there would be a wave of peace that would spread thru the region.



posted on Feb, 3 2011 @ 09:43 PM
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Originally posted by randomname
the same thing would happen to israel if america abandoned netanyahu. the military occupation would end and there would be a wave of peace that would spread thru the region.


I don't believe that to be true at all.



posted on Feb, 3 2011 @ 11:35 PM
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An interesting point one will note about the struggles in Egypt as far as motives are concerned.

Suez Canal.

Oil Prices.

Reconstruction

Media field day, breed insecurity's about the possibility of revolt in the Western world.

Follow me? If they can insure this "revolution" happens in a way that their candidate will still be the one in power after. It is a win/win situation, you got oil going way up to maybe even 120+ a barrel if the rioting does reach those places, and the entire time no one is looking at Israel...

Unfortunately for the people trying to manipulate this I believe their plan backfired.

The army did not attack the populace they rallied beside them, the footage of violent riots that the Western media was coveting was cut off, and replaced with scene's of joy from Aljazzera when Mubarak in his fear removed the internet against the wishes of his owners. Then all of a sudden no more footage was coming in from Egypt, I wonder why? Just a coincidence? Strange that Western media would go from poring in footage from Aljezzera showing the violent riots before, but when they start transmitting pictures of people cleaning up together, and the army arresting Mubarak supporters it gets cut off.

Once they realized that the Egyptian people might in fact place their own leader in charge instead of jumping on the available U.S backed dictator in waiting, and that the images might give the people in the Western world a hope that we could also have a revolution. They panicked, and shut down all the feed they could.

The Suez Canal carries about 2.4 million barrels daily, threats of violence may cause this port to be shut down, that would raise the price of crude oil drastically (it already has). However (to my knowledge) the full on rioting has not effected the Suez Canal as much as some parties might have wished, and might not at all.


This is my synopsis of what happened/is happening.



posted on Feb, 4 2011 @ 01:35 AM
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Originally posted by drkylefletcher
I'm gonna take a wild guess that maybe the CIA had something to do with the uprising in Egypt.

Edit: Let me clarify that I'm stating the possibility.


You're right, the CIA is under the control of the CFR .
There are many that have connected the dots leading to Egypt and the breakdown of the other moderate Arab states. Soros and Brzezinski are behind this as they are also behind Obama. You'll have noticed how quickly Obama handed over long time US ally Mubarak. Boehner and McCain nearly tripped over each other agreeing with Obama. Was there an election in November? What's wrong with this picture? Nothing actually, we have only one party in the US despite the pretense. And so while we are being placated with the carrot of healthcare reform on the home front, every moderate ally of the US is being thrown under the bus. Tea Parties rendered powerless. This is why Obama showed no real concern following the November election. His mission and concerns are not what we are led to believe. Jimmy Carter must be so proud. Correct that, Brzezinski must be so proud, Carter like Obama is a witless puppet.

Egypt-ElBaradei-Soros connection

Soros blames Jews for Egypt


Soros vouches for a potential Egyptian government comprised of the Muslim Brotherhood and Mohamed ElBaradei.


And so Soros vouches for instability in the middle-east? No kidding! What's next? $140 a barrel oil? Oops, did I say that out loud? Wow, if someone were to be heavily invested in green technology... did I say that out loud too?

Egypt is Another Soros "Color" Revolution

Proof George Soros is behind Egypt's Revolution


Elad strongly suggested that I investigate who was behind Mohammed ElBaradei. Look what I discovered! Just a few months ago, Mohammed ElBaradei was paraded on the front cover of the Council On Foreign Relations (CFR) rag, Foreign Affairs, with a headline asking if he could be Egypt's savior. What uncanny foresight, for on the second day of Egyptian protests he showed up in Cairo and was named as the negotiator of The Muslim Brotherhood. So where did he come from? It turns out from the board of an NGO run by CFR muckrakers George Soros and Zbigniew Brzezinski.


You also likely noticed where the Egyptian military hierarchy was during the early days of the unrest.

Egyptian military delegation at Pentagon for annual meeting


"So that's just an example of how engaged we are with the Egyptians, even as these developments have taken place on the streets in Cairo and elsewhere, which I think State and the White House have spoken to in terms of our concerns about how they proceed in terms of non-violence and how they are reacted to by the government and so forth," Morrell continued.

NPR reported from Cairo Thursday that while the Egyptian police are out in force trying to block protests, the Egyptian military has as yet not made an appearance.


How convenient. Do we think the disgruntled Egyptian "man-on-the-street" was aware that the military leadership that could have quelled the violence early on was out of town? Not without an Internet barrage sent their way from the Soros group. By the time Mubarak shut down the Internet, all was lost.

Anything GWB had to say about freedom in the middle east was written for him to save his sad ass when this went down. What did he do to foster peace in the mid-east in eight years? His father was the head of the CIA and the first in this line of POTUS creeps to endorse a "New World Order". There's no way that his mentally challenged spawn was doing anything other than carrying out the master plan to manufacture global instability. Taking out Saddam was for the sake of the Saudis. The Bushes and the Saudis are long time butt buddies.
edit on 4-2-2011 by Hemisphere because: punctuation



posted on Feb, 4 2011 @ 01:47 AM
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Originally posted by HoldTheBeans

Well I sure wouldn't try and overthrow the government. I could care less what China thinks. We go nukes pointed right back their way. What are they gonna do try a normandy landing in California? Or are you saying if China invades Mexico we should topple the government?


Not to worry, the POTUS is "taking care" of our nuclear arsenal under the cover of darkness.

President Obama Signs START Treaty, Doesn't Allow Reporters in the Room

One word comes to mind regarding Barry, "transparency". It's clear, the man's a naked Marxist.



posted on Feb, 4 2011 @ 01:53 AM
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reply to post by Hemisphere
 


Fascist is a much more deserving term.

The man is a living, walking billboard for corporate interest.

If he had his choice he would have changed the "American" flag to a Goldman & Sachs logo.



posted on Feb, 4 2011 @ 02:26 AM
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reply to post by HoldTheBeans
 


testcase



posted on Feb, 4 2011 @ 06:51 AM
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Originally posted by HoldTheBeans

Originally posted by drkylefletcher
I'm gonna take a wild guess that maybe the CIA had something to do with the uprising in Egypt.


Why would the CIA create an uprising in a country who is our military ally?


Remember Ferdinand Marcos in the Philippines and we flew him out with all the gold/wealth of that country in our military planes?

Would be a grand plan if we could do it to 30 countries.



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