It appears George W Bush was correct about freedom in the middle east

Originally posted by HoldTheBeans

Lot of fools running around lately.

Not just lately

Originally posted by drkylefletcher

Originally posted by hp1229

Well. Not according to Global Post article. See the link below. Egypt is one of the largest arab nation population wise. It also controls the SUEZ canal which is of strategic and economic progress for the rest of the Arab Countries.

GOLDEN LAND

I mean in regards to Israel's strategy.

Well with respect to that then definitely it is not.

Originally posted by hp1229

Well with respect to that then definitely it is not.

How so?

Originally posted by drkylefletcher

Originally posted by hp1229

True but do you think we (USA) will be one of them?

What about China or Russia?

That will be interesting to see and will drive the political scene for the next few decades in the region.

I've come to the conclusion that most nations are puppet states, with most of the middle east being some of the exception.

edit on 3-2-2011 by drkylefletcher because: (no reason given)

No No. What I meant to say earlier is that will US be one of the influential country going forward in the Middle East or will it be the Russians or Chinese?

Originally posted by drkylefletcher

Originally posted by hp1229

Well with respect to that then definitely it is not.

How so?

Sorry for my incomplete sentences. With respect to Israel's motive for Lebanon, Egypt is definitely not the golden land.

Originally posted by hp1229

No No. What I meant to say earlier is that will US be one of the influential country going forward in the Middle East or will it be the Russians or Chinese?

I'm not ruling out the possibility that the communist nations are sovereign, but it certainly seems to me the democratic nations are playing on the same side as the Russians and Chinese, and the money ultimately goes to the same place that isn't the massive amount of running costs. (I know that last statement will be misconstrued by some, but I refuse to come out and say exactly what I mean by that).

Originally posted by illuminnaughty
reply to post by HoldTheBeans

 

So that they can get a war going for israel. Have israel surrounded by muslims who wont talk to the zionists. Then they can sell lots of weapons and bombs. Spread a little freedom and democracy arround the ME. Lots of money to be made. Might even get the chance to loot oil or any thing else they want, like they did in iraq.

Now you're talking. But who do you think will be there this time? US, China or Russia? or a wildcard?

This has happened in many Arab countries before - Syria for example in 2004-05. It was a big deal when Liberals and Islamists, and disgruntled/passed over former regime members formed a common front against a common enemy.

There were demonstrations bubbling up all over Syria, and you had Damascus University students marching for the Kurds and the Lebanese and vice versa.

In the end the secret police arrested most of them, and the rest fled. Why? Because Bashar al-Asad didn't lose his nerve, and because there were enough officers in the security services to back him.

Same thing took place in Iran after the elections. Millions were on the streets, backed by both mullahs and Ataturk like secularists. It wasn't enough because Khamenei, Ahmadinejad and the Revolutionary Guard (Pasdaran) held firm. The result is that even though the current state has completely lost legitimacy with the Iranian people, the Pasdaran is more powerful than ever, a kind of untouchable Janissary corps that dominates the economy and crushes any and all threats to their power.

The military has to step aside, or better still, stand aside while facing face their own internal struggles if ordinary people are to have a chance against authoritarian states.

Originally posted by hp1229

Originally posted by drkylefletcher

Originally posted by hp1229

Well with respect to that then definitely it is not.

How so?

Sorry for my incomplete sentences. With respect to Israel's motive for Lebanon, Egypt is definitely not the golden land.

I'm sorry, it seems we're getting off track, I'll try to slow down with replies (too much caffeine).

I meant to say that Palestine is the golden land to Israel, and weakening Palestine with people leaving to help/flock to the nations in unrest is wise for Israel's defense/ territory conquering (too aggressive of a word choice but no better comes to mind currently) strategy.

reply to post by hp1229


Thanks for the link. So the riots in Tunisia, spurred a coillition of people already angry at the Egyptian government, created an oppourtunity.

I just have to wonder about the motivation for some who spurred this movement in Egypt. While some/many may be altruistic, my spidey senses are tingling as to the motives of some.

Originally posted by drkylefletcher

Originally posted by hp1229

Originally posted by drkylefletcher

Originally posted by hp1229

Well with respect to that then definitely it is not.

How so?

Sorry for my incomplete sentences. With respect to Israel's motive for Lebanon, Egypt is definitely not the golden land.

I'm sorry, it seems we're getting off track, I'll try to slow down with replies (too much caffeine).

I meant to say that Palestine is the golden land to Israel, and weakening Palestine with people leaving to help/flock to the nations in unrest is wise for Israel's defense/ territory conquering (too aggressive of a word choice but no better comes to mind currently) strategy.

Well. Thats why I asked if Palestine is the only member nation that comprise 'Muslim Brotherhood'? I would assume Hezbollah and its founder(s) and others will also make up the contributing flock to Egypt. Thus it still might not play out in Israel's Favor Atleast thats what I feel and think.

Originally posted by drkylefletcher

Originally posted by hp1229

No No. What I meant to say earlier is that will US be one of the influential country going forward in the Middle East or will it be the Russians or Chinese?

I'm not ruling out the possibility that the communist nations are sovereign, but it certainly seems to me the democratic nations are playing on the same side as the Russians and Chinese, and the money ultimately goes to the same place that isn't the massive amount of running costs. (I know that last statement will be misconstrued by some, but I refuse to come out and say exactly what I mean by that).

edit on 3-2-2011 by drkylefletcher because: (no reason given)

In other words...'Meet the new boss...same as the old boss' NWO ?

reply to post by hp1229


I find it strangely coincidental economic policies seem to be balancing between nations of the world.

So, yes.

Originally posted by beezzer
reply to post by hp1229

 

Thanks for the link. So the riots in Tunisia, spurred a coillition of people already angry at the Egyptian government, created an oppourtunity.

I just have to wonder about the motivation for some who spurred this movement in Egypt. While some/many may be altruistic, my spidey senses are tingling as to the motives of some.

edit on 3-2-2011 by beezzer because: tyupo

The truth of the matter is that Mubaarak's son is/was not interested in running his country of Egypt. TPTB needed a new face/successor to Mubaarak (who is also someone with a military background and was picked by military). This will be going on for a while and eventually it will be filled with another puppet. The rioters will go back to their homes once they get their butt kicked around a bit in the prisons by secret police and the puppet masters. Eventually the media will slow the coverage down or twist the story completely all around and all over the world that it will be forgotten just before the new face is put in place

Originally posted by drkylefletcher
reply to post by hp1229

 

I find it strangely coincidental economic policies seem to be balancing between nations of the world.

So, yes.

edit on 3-2-2011 by drkylefletcher because: (no reason given)

Which post are you responding to ? i'm sorry but i've been going back n forth several threads on ATS

Originally posted by hp1229

Which post are you responding to ?

i'm sorry but i've been going back n forth several threads on ATS

Originally posted by hp1229
In other words...'Meet the new boss...same as the old boss' NWO ?

Originally posted by drkylefletcher

Originally posted by hp1229
Which post are you responding to ?

i'm sorry but i've been going back n forth several threads on ATS

Originally posted by hp1229
In other words...'Meet the new boss...same as the old boss' NWO ?

It took almost 80 years, and a great deal of bloodshed and repeated upheaval for France to transition from an absolute monarchy to a liberal democracy, but it happened because that is what the majority of the French, and the majority of its classes, from the working class to the professional classes wanted.

Iran is in a similar transition, and going through similar struggles over the role of the state, the role of religion in public life, etc. But like France, I believe Iran *will* succeed in making the transition, eventually, just like Turkey did.

I'm not so sure about the Arab world. People are much more wedded to the idea of moral and political order imposed through hierarchy. It will take them longer, but Turkey, the EU, and eventually Iran will be powerful influences that will bring lasting changes to many places - but Egypt will be a tough nut to crack in that respect.

It's still not a sure thing that the Egyptian dictatorship is headed for extinction. A lot of wealthy and powerful Egyptians have a lot to lose (as close allies of Mubarak) if the dictatorship falls. Many of the protesting Egyptians realize that a new government could just turn into yet another dictatorship.Many have died so far in the violence, and in the background deals are being made by a desperate, but resourceful, ruling class.

reply to post by HoldTheBeans


I believe that you are way off base if you think that the Egypt uprising is a movement orchestrated by the egyptian people in hopes of duplicating the situation in Iraq. Just exactly what part of that little paradise in the desert known as Iraq do you think the egyptian people yearn for?

IMO, the egyptian uprising is a demand for social justice and equality. The people of Egypt are sick and tired of being ruled and oppressed by the elite class and they are demanding change. Some of the things they are demanding include, health care for all and putting an end to their nations corrupt police force. I think they are also calling for food subsidies and jobs.

If I didn't know better, I'd say this sounds a lot like the call for change heard in the U.S. that led to the election of Barak Obama and nothing like the illegal Iraq war instigated by G.W. Bush, where he intended to replace Saddam with another puppet president chosen by America's ruling elite in order to insure future U.S. access to their oil. If anything, the egyptian uprising just proves how WRONG Bush was as it clearly demonstrates that we don't have to sacrifice our sons and daughters to overthrow a dictator, all we have to do is to quit supporting the dictator and the people will do the rest.

To the worlds' ultra wealthy ruling elite, I'd would say this; You had better wake up to the facts surrounding these uprisings because this movie could soon be coming to a theatre near you. Just like the online movie "Zeitgeist" explains, the world is like a huge monopoly game and once all the properties and assets are possessed by one player it's "game over." At that time, all the money and assets must be returned to the box if you have any future intentions of restarting the game.

Originally posted by drkylefletcher
I'm gonna take a wild guess that maybe the CIA had something to do with the uprising in Egypt.

Edit: Let me clarify that I'm stating the possibility.

edit on 3-2-2011 by drkylefletcher because: (no reason given)

100% definitely not...as horrible as Mubarak was, he was doing exactly what the US wanted him to do. Why on earth would they want to remove him? Can't be because of human rights as they tolerated and paid his torture regime for 30+ years now...

Originally posted by MrXYZ

Originally posted by drkylefletcher
I'm gonna take a wild guess that maybe the CIA had something to do with the uprising in Egypt.

Edit: Let me clarify that I'm stating the possibility.

edit on 3-2-2011 by drkylefletcher because: (no reason given)

100% definitely not...as horrible as Mubarak was, he was doing exactly what the US wanted him to do. Why on earth would they want to remove him? Can't be because of human rights as they tolerated and paid his torture regime for 30+ years now...

as stated earlier in this thread

Originally posted by hp1229

The truth of the matter is that Mubaarak's son is/was not interested in running his country of Egypt. TPTB needed a new face/successor to Mubaarak (who is also someone with a military background and was picked by military). This will be going on for a while and eventually it will be filled with another puppet. The rioters will go back to their homes once they get their butt kicked around a bit in the prisons by secret police and the puppet masters. Eventually the media will slow the coverage down or twist the story completely all around and all over the world that it will be forgotten just before the new face is put in place

Originally posted by drkylefletcher
I'm gonna take a wild guess that maybe the CIA had something to do with the uprising in Egypt.

Edit: Let me clarify that I'm stating the possibility.

edit on 3-2-2011 by drkylefletcher because: (no reason given)

CIA always has something to do with politics Directly or In-Directly. It all depends (benefits) when their need is called for. Why would they risk their resources for a failing dictator? Let the media and internet do the trick this time.