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UFO over Jerusalem: CONFIRMED HOAX

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posted on Feb, 4 2011 @ 01:23 AM
link   
I am done posting for the night. To sum it up. The sound waves on the audio dont line up as the same sound for Videos 1 and 2 so dudes video debunking it just doesnt pan out. They also discuss the parallax and this is still in debates. The walls have been proven to be at 2 different locations. Not the same wall. So that about sums 1 and 2 up. I am still sticking by these videos till they are debunked with something I can not redebunk or someone else cant.

Video 3 is debunked - check gone!

Video 4 is in debates on if the people in the video are people who also make other videos on youtube. Guy also claims this is the same voice in Video 1 and I am highly doubtful of this. Video 4 could be a hoax created in light of Video 1 and 2. Thats in the air.

Now I am going to bed I hope someone will step in and keep this sane.




posted on Feb, 4 2011 @ 01:25 AM
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Originally posted by h4y6d2e
i am amazed at all the hard work put in by the debunkers - and appreciative too. the debunkers largely come off as people who would GLADLY entertain the notion of the UFO phenomenon being real - but will NOT tolerate people who blatantly try to ruin a legitimate field with bogus videos. i am truly appreciative of the time and energy they put in to discredit this bunk. the people that facilitate these fakes are just the absolute worst and i wish nothing but the absolute worst for them.

...sucks though. would've been really something if was the real deal


If debunked I am okay with it. I am neither here nor there on the videos you just have to have the proof and until the proof is there I will defend it as it could be legit. So thats where I am at.



posted on Feb, 4 2011 @ 01:30 AM
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Originally posted by Ashtrei
and it did feature in israeli news both on TV and web papers, all have been posted here


yeah I love the way MSM is about two days behind ATS these days
But the flash, bright enough from a distance... it would have been daylight beneath it... considering the way it 'lit up' the dome.

There is no way that would not have cause a stir IMO



posted on Feb, 4 2011 @ 01:33 AM
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reply to post by jennybee35
 


It should teach me not to stay up all night and chase after strange lights. I had a real good laugh at my stupidity. It was very funny. This whole affair is making me getting carried away. As somebody said, if one wants to see things, he always will.



posted on Feb, 4 2011 @ 01:41 AM
link   

Originally posted by TheSearchforSpork
reply to post by Mr Mask
 


Thank You for the very thoughtful and considered post! This sure has opened a can of worms at ATS, and future sightings will continue to do so when the subject of 'real or hoax' is raised.


Thank you. I was a little afraid to reopen this myself and was a little worried abut the community being a little pissed at my involvement and/or the odd circumstances involved with this reopening. I almost refused out of that fear.

But of course the honor of being asked to do it, and the worries that someone else may make the OP biased (something I hope I didn't do), made me accept the mission. I am a little disappointed that my OP was missing so many good clips and posts from the original thread - but when I started building the OP it quickly became apparent that if I add "this one" then I need to add "that one, and that one, and that one, and that one- etc"

So I decided to go bare-bones and present little argument and just try to document the event as I witnessed it from a poster's view. Thanks for everyone who didn't yell at my attempts, and thanks to everyone who said I did a god job.

It was a fun.



I posted in the original thread some thoughts about the technicalities of hoaxing. I'm sure some other members are involved in visual effects professionally (as am I) and rather than going into specifics about the pieces I think we have to address an insoluble problem: Visual Effects packages now make it relatively easy to produce flawless hoaxes.


Damn right...and to my dismay. And to be "honest" you would "have to" accept that these hoaxers must als be stalking forums and chat rooms dedicated to the subjects these hoaxer's hoax on.

It sucks to know that these dishonest slobs will go as far as to "take advantage of" innocent people looking for ways to decode their very existence and place in the universe.

They are messing with people's heads for a buck, or a laugh, or just too be cruel or petty. Oh how clever it is to be able to do harm with technolgical tools...you can pick up a stick and do harm with it easy. Using tools to better the world is the hardest thing.

Hoaxers are leeches who syphon off the energy of people simply trying to "learn".



Online tutorials teach not just the technical aspects but also the theoretical knowledge so that the average latchkey teenager can become very adept at this art in short time. I personally know dozens of people who could have produced these pieces, flawlessly, in an evening with little effort.


I agree. I also roll with a lot of talented young artist types- and when I see people pointing at these videos and saying "that's either real or BIG Hollywood", I end up shaking my head and thinking of how my friends easily manipulated film in a far greater way.



This means the only true measure of authenticity has to be 'multiple witnesses with no connection to each other'. The more, the better. Think about this, it's staring us in the face: 3 videos of the same event. World-famous landmark-tourist-destination in a densely populated city. Where are the eyewitnesses? What are the odds of 3 videos coming out and no 'man in the street' interviews, etc by the MSM? Believe me, they'd be all over it. This is a profoundly important site to a huge chunk of the world. If it had been seen by even a few dozen, or hundred citizens or tourists, the religious factions would be going ape about this 'sign from God'.


I think in all cases things leave evidence. And that Bat-Man would find that evidence...

In short...we must combined like mighty Voltron to form the world's real Bat-Man.

Critical thinkers need to join forces for the causes of good.

IMHO.



I am not concluding that this is a hoax. I am just saying: we must re-assess our 'authenticity priorities' and put 'convincing footage' lower on the totem pole.


One thing I do like abut technology. It usually leaves finger prints, showing altering/editing that shouldn't be there in raw footage, and those who are keen with the tools of the trade are trained in noticing those finger prints.

But I agree- film is a whole new species now that it is digital. New species with new weaknesses and strengths.

The new beast.

Bat-Man don't care...he's Bat-Man.

Thanks for your post, I just wanted to say thanks.

MM



posted on Feb, 4 2011 @ 01:42 AM
link   

Originally posted by TheSearchforSpork
reply to post by Mr Mask
 


Thank You for the very thoughtful and considered post! This sure has opened a can of worms at ATS, and future sightings will continue to do so when the subject of 'real or hoax' is raised.


Thank you. I was a little afraid to reopen this myself and was a little worried abut the community being a little pissed at my involvement and/or the odd circumstances involved with this reopening. I almost refused out of that fear.

But of course the honor of being asked to do it, and the worries that someone else may make the OP biased (something I hope I didn't do), made me accept the mission. I am a little disappointed that my OP was missing so many good clips and posts from the original thread - but when I started building the OP it quickly became apparent that if I add "this one" then I need to add "that one, and that one, and that one, and that one- etc"

So I decided to go bare-bones and present little argument and just try to document the event as I witnessed it from a poster's view. Thanks for everyone who didn't yell at my attempts, and thanks to everyone who said I did a god job.

It was a fun.



I posted in the original thread some thoughts about the technicalities of hoaxing. I'm sure some other members are involved in visual effects professionally (as am I) and rather than going into specifics about the pieces I think we have to address an insoluble problem: Visual Effects packages now make it relatively easy to produce flawless hoaxes.


Damn right...and to my dismay. And to be "honest" you would "have to" accept that these hoaxers must als be stalking forums and chat rooms dedicated to the subjects these hoaxer's hoax on.

It sucks to know that these dishonest slobs will go as far as to "take advantage of" innocent people looking for ways to decode their very existence and place in the universe.

They are messing with people's heads for a buck, or a laugh, or just too be cruel or petty. Oh how clever it is to be able to do harm with technolgical tools...you can pick up a stick and do harm with it easy. Using tools to better the world is the hardest thing.

Hoaxers are leeches who syphon off the energy of people simply trying to "learn".



Online tutorials teach not just the technical aspects but also the theoretical knowledge so that the average latchkey teenager can become very adept at this art in short time. I personally know dozens of people who could have produced these pieces, flawlessly, in an evening with little effort.


I agree. I also roll with a lot of talented young artist types- and when I see people pointing at these videos and saying "that's either real or BIG Hollywood", I end up shaking my head and thinking of how my friends easily manipulated film in a far greater way.



This means the only true measure of authenticity has to be 'multiple witnesses with no connection to each other'. The more, the better. Think about this, it's staring us in the face: 3 videos of the same event. World-famous landmark-tourist-destination in a densely populated city. Where are the eyewitnesses? What are the odds of 3 videos coming out and no 'man in the street' interviews, etc by the MSM? Believe me, they'd be all over it. This is a profoundly important site to a huge chunk of the world. If it had been seen by even a few dozen, or hundred citizens or tourists, the religious factions would be going ape about this 'sign from God'.


I think in all cases things leave evidence. And that Bat-Man would find that evidence...

In short...we must combined like mighty Voltron to form the world's real Bat-Man.

Critical thinkers need to join forces for the causes of good.

IMHO.



I am not concluding that this is a hoax. I am just saying: we must re-assess our 'authenticity priorities' and put 'convincing footage' lower on the totem pole.


One thing I do like abut technology. It usually leaves finger prints, showing altering/editing that shouldn't be there in raw footage, and those who are keen with the tools of the trade are trained in noticing those finger prints.

But I agree- film is a whole new species now that it is digital. New species with new weaknesses and strengths.

The new beast.

Bat-Man don't care...he's Bat-Man.

Thanks for your post, I just wanted to say thanks.

MM



posted on Feb, 4 2011 @ 01:44 AM
link   

Originally posted by TheSearchforSpork
reply to post by Mr Mask
 


Thank You for the very thoughtful and considered post! This sure has opened a can of worms at ATS, and future sightings will continue to do so when the subject of 'real or hoax' is raised.


Thank you. I was a little afraid to reopen this myself and was a little worried abut the community being a little pissed at my involvement and/or the odd circumstances involved with this reopening. I almost refused out of that fear.

But of course the honor of being asked to do it, and the worries that someone else may make the OP biased (something I hope I didn't do), made me accept the mission. I am a little disappointed that my OP was missing so many good clips and posts from the original thread - but when I started building the OP it quickly became apparent that if I add "this one" then I need to add "that one, and that one, and that one, and that one- etc"

So I decided to go bare-bones and present little argument and just try to document the event as I witnessed it from a poster's view. Thanks for everyone who didn't yell at my attempts, and thanks to everyone who said I did a god job.

It was a fun.



I posted in the original thread some thoughts about the technicalities of hoaxing. I'm sure some other members are involved in visual effects professionally (as am I) and rather than going into specifics about the pieces I think we have to address an insoluble problem: Visual Effects packages now make it relatively easy to produce flawless hoaxes.


Damn right...and to my dismay. And to be "honest" you would "have to" accept that these hoaxers must als be stalking forums and chat rooms dedicated to the subjects these hoaxer's hoax on.

It sucks to know that these dishonest slobs will go as far as to "take advantage of" innocent people looking for ways to decode their very existence and place in the universe.

They are messing with people's heads for a buck, or a laugh, or just too be cruel or petty. Oh how clever it is to be able to do harm with technolgical tools...you can pick up a stick and do harm with it easy. Using tools to better the world is the hardest thing.

Hoaxers are leeches who syphon off the energy of people simply trying to "learn".



Online tutorials teach not just the technical aspects but also the theoretical knowledge so that the average latchkey teenager can become very adept at this art in short time. I personally know dozens of people who could have produced these pieces, flawlessly, in an evening with little effort.


I agree. I also roll with a lot of talented young artist types- and when I see people pointing at these videos and saying "that's either real or BIG Hollywood", I end up shaking my head and thinking of how my friends easily manipulated film in a far greater way.



This means the only true measure of authenticity has to be 'multiple witnesses with no connection to each other'. The more, the better. Think about this, it's staring us in the face: 3 videos of the same event. World-famous landmark-tourist-destination in a densely populated city. Where are the eyewitnesses? What are the odds of 3 videos coming out and no 'man in the street' interviews, etc by the MSM? Believe me, they'd be all over it. This is a profoundly important site to a huge chunk of the world. If it had been seen by even a few dozen, or hundred citizens or tourists, the religious factions would be going ape about this 'sign from God'.


I think in all cases things leave evidence. And that Bat-Man would find that evidence...

In short...we must combined like mighty Voltron to form the world's real Bat-Man.

Critical thinkers need to join forces for the causes of good.

IMHO.



I am not concluding that this is a hoax. I am just saying: we must re-assess our 'authenticity priorities' and put 'convincing footage' lower on the totem pole.


One thing I do like abut technology. It usually leaves finger prints, showing altering/editing that shouldn't be there in raw footage, and those who are keen with the tools of the trade are trained in noticing those finger prints.

But I agree- film is a whole new species now that it is digital. New species with new weaknesses and strengths.

The new beast.

Bat-Man don't care...he's Bat-Man.

Thanks for your post, I just wanted to say thanks and stuff.

MM



posted on Feb, 4 2011 @ 01:45 AM
link   

Originally posted by TheSearchforSpork
reply to post by Mr Mask
 


Thank You for the very thoughtful and considered post! This sure has opened a can of worms at ATS, and future sightings will continue to do so when the subject of 'real or hoax' is raised.


Thank you. I was a little afraid to reopen this myself and was a little worried abut the community being a little pissed at my involvement and/or the odd circumstances involved with this reopening. I almost refused out of that fear.

But of course the honor of being asked to do it, and the worries that someone else may make the OP biased (something I hope I didn't do), made me accept the mission. I am a little disappointed that my OP was missing so many good clips and posts from the original thread - but when I started building the OP it quickly became apparent that if I add "this one" then I need to add "that one, and that one, and that one, and that one- etc"

So I decided to go bare-bones and present little argument and just try to document the event as I witnessed it from a poster's view. Thanks for everyone who didn't yell at my attempts, and thanks to everyone who said I did a god job.

It was a fun.



I posted in the original thread some thoughts about the technicalities of hoaxing. I'm sure some other members are involved in visual effects professionally (as am I) and rather than going into specifics about the pieces I think we have to address an insoluble problem: Visual Effects packages now make it relatively easy to produce flawless hoaxes.


Damn right...and to my dismay. And to be "honest" you would "have to" accept that these hoaxers must als be stalking forums and chat rooms dedicated to the subjects these hoaxer's hoax on.

It sucks to know that these dishonest slobs will go as far as to "take advantage of" innocent people looking for ways to decode their very existence and place in the universe.

They are messing with people's heads for a buck, or a laugh, or just too be cruel or petty. Oh how clever it is to be able to do harm with technolgical tools...you can pick up a stick and do harm with it easy. Using tools to better the world is the hardest thing.

Hoaxers are leeches who syphon off the energy of people simply trying to "learn".



Online tutorials teach not just the technical aspects but also the theoretical knowledge so that the average latchkey teenager can become very adept at this art in short time. I personally know dozens of people who could have produced these pieces, flawlessly, in an evening with little effort.


I agree. I also roll with a lot of talented young artist types- and when I see people pointing at these videos and saying "that's either real or BIG Hollywood", I end up shaking my head and thinking of how my friends easily manipulated film in a far greater way.



This means the only true measure of authenticity has to be 'multiple witnesses with no connection to each other'. The more, the better. Think about this, it's staring us in the face: 3 videos of the same event. World-famous landmark-tourist-destination in a densely populated city. Where are the eyewitnesses? What are the odds of 3 videos coming out and no 'man in the street' interviews, etc by the MSM? Believe me, they'd be all over it. This is a profoundly important site to a huge chunk of the world. If it had been seen by even a few dozen, or hundred citizens or tourists, the religious factions would be going ape about this 'sign from God'.


I think in all cases things leave evidence. And that Bat-Man would find that evidence...

In short...we must combined like mighty Voltron to form the world's real Bat-Man.

Critical thinkers need to join forces for the causes of good.

IMHO.



I am not concluding that this is a hoax. I am just saying: we must re-assess our 'authenticity priorities' and put 'convincing footage' lower on the totem pole.


One thing I do like abut technology. It usually leaves finger prints, showing altering/editing that shouldn't be there in raw footage, and those who are keen with the tools of the trade are trained in noticing those finger prints.

But I agree- film is a whole new species now that it is digital. New species with new weaknesses and strengths.

The new beast.

Bat-Man don't care...he's Bat-Man.

Thanks for your post, I just wanted to say thanks and stuff.

MM



posted on Feb, 4 2011 @ 01:46 AM
link   
Folks,

Looking at the 4th video, knowing the 3rd one is bogus, I'd go so far as to say you're seeing some of the best genuine UFO footage shot in recent memory. I'm kind of stunned that there was so much discussion on here about the stabilized footage, a basic understanding of parallax tells you the obvious, and this fourth video is nothing short of stunning. I'd love to be in Israel tracking down primary witnesses - I suspect that others saw this thing besides the sources of the videos. Outside of determining the precise provenance, and doing some actual analysis work on the original video data, not the compressed Youtube files, I'd say this is a hot one.

I think there's something here. I don't think the three compelling videos will be debunked. You can quote me on that... but I always reserve the right to be wrong.

I'm saddened by the fact that nutjobs like Webre are putting out nonsense on the event, it deserves some serious, sober journalism. The primary prerequisite is that the investigation needs to happen in Israel proper.

David Biedny

P.S. Mr. Mask, thanks for reopening the topic.
edit on 4-2-2011 by davidbiedny
edit on 4-2-2011 by davidbiedny because: (no reason given)
extra DIV



posted on Feb, 4 2011 @ 01:49 AM
link   

Originally posted by Mr Mask
I agree. I also roll with a lot of talented young artist types- and when I see people pointing at these videos and saying "that's either real or BIG Hollywood", I end up shaking my head and thinking of how my friends easily manipulated film in a far greater way.


People forget that studios hire directly from these schools... in fact internship is part of the graduation program at my daughters college. There is such a shortage of animators, etc that they are usually guaranteed a job with really good pay


Being able to pull off a hoax that makes international news would be a nice perk in a resume



posted on Feb, 4 2011 @ 01:53 AM
link   
Wow, crazy debate either way, just a couple of things

One a couple notes to self - buy HD camera, keep with and running at all times in order to hopefully capture the perfect HD image of UFO, because anything less is auto-hoax.

Second note to self - NEVER upload said video to YouTube unless fully prepared to be raked over the coals for trying to show something unusual, yeah I wonder why there aren't more videos of this incident or any witnesses ready and willing to be ridiculed and flamed out there?

Then third is more a note for the Gov't, you guys no longer need to devote any more resources to debunking anything, just send the footage to clown Cohen and once he uploads it, case closed, period.

Some of the debunking efforts are appreciated since you are only trying to keep em honest (right? I hope), but there are issues with almost each and every one of them, the only true way to get to the bottom on this one is to put the original footage (not YT uploads) through a variety of video analysis, anything less than that is really just your take on a YT upload and all the issues involved with that.

For me the jury will remain out, but I have to lean towards not hoax, the multiple angle issue backed up with the weathercam makes a tough one.



posted on Feb, 4 2011 @ 01:53 AM
link   
So has 1,2 or 4 been proven to be a hoax yet?



posted on Feb, 4 2011 @ 01:53 AM
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i'm torn about the 4th video. if it's a hoax they did an amazing job with the flash illuminating the area of the city near the Mount. At first, the driving-around leadup seemed very Cloverfield to me - but if these kids make a lot of videos, it seems reasonable that they'd be filming like this on a night out.

Correct me if i'm wrong, but isn't the second video from the other person you see in the first video? Shouldn't the audio be virtually the same as a practical matter (just at a different level)?

On a side note, even though the third video is garbage, i'm curious what they used as the soundtrack. Was it lifted from another sighting video or recorded for the hoax?
edit on 4-2-2011 by oleus because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 4 2011 @ 01:56 AM
link   
Hello ATSers,

I have a question for the debunkers.

In video 4 when the ball flashes it lights up the buildings in the background, which prior to the flash where completly black (under exposed). How does artifical light allow you to get detail out of an under exposed area? Remember this is video not film.

If this was lightening footage with a fake UFO the flash would've lit up the whole area without a noticable dissipation.

Why are there anomalous objects in a weather cam that corroborate the same time and date?

Just curious what you guys think as I'm on the fence still...



posted on Feb, 4 2011 @ 01:57 AM
link   

Originally posted by Mr Mask

Originally posted by gift0fpr0phecy
Hey Mr Mask, is there any way you can edit a mistake in the original post, or ask a moderator to?


Leo fixed it. Thank the heavens for Mods who fix my mistakes.


Hey M&Ms,

You know I'm your buddy right? You know I love having you around and wouldn't do anything to jeopardise our relationship? OK? So don't take this personally it's an observation about conduct is all.

I'd like to stipulate on underhanded management of this topic. That is; if this can be altered for you then why didn't it occur in the original thread closed currently and in the [HOAX] section. If ATS insists on using stars and flags (and the odd applause) as currency then surely this is nothing short of a hand out.

At time of posting this thread has generated 188 flags, some of which I'm sure are from members who posted in the original thread, however some will be from new members. It is my opinion that whilst each thread brings much needed investigation to the subject there is nothing to suggest the thread was proven false earlier or indeed why that thread has now been closed and redirects, via suggestion, to here.

Now off course an ATS bashing post would be entirely off-topic here and so to allay any suspicions that this is off-topic, derailing or trolling; I stipulate that Mr Mask, in league with the moderation and admin of ATS, is fully aware that this UFO incident of Jerusalem is indeed real and is trying to control the situation to minimise the risk of the truth being exposed. Whilst his usual use of dialogue to alleviate tensions can be seen here, if one skews their outlooks just a touch (Including parallax) it can be seen to be a use of neural-linguistic programming to herd concepts and ideas too close to the mark away from the truth.

His popular online comic book published here (By the way...issue three?? When??) aligns him with the governing powers of ATS and suggests he is aware of their overall direction. The moving to [HOAX], and closure of, the original thread whilst redirecting here is proof that ATS wishes for MM to manage this topic. And his handling of people within this thread, which could be seen as decent and friendly by those unaware of the truth, is indeed an indicator of his malice towards the search of true knowledge.

I won't quite wrap this up in bows and Doc Martin shoelaces by suggesting that he is a Reptilian overlord from Niburi hell bent on New Order (the concept, he is on the band) but logical analysis of the situation does suggest a nepotist approach to managing this.

In short - why do you think this happened?

-m0r



posted on Feb, 4 2011 @ 01:59 AM
link   

Originally posted by QuantumDisciple
Hello ATSers,

I have a question for the debunkers.

In video 4 when the ball flashes it lights up the buildings in the background, which prior to the flash where completly black (under exposed). How does artifical light allow you to get detail out of an under exposed area? Remember this is video not film.

If this was lightening footage with a fake UFO the flash would've lit up the whole area without a noticable dissipation.

Why are there anomalous objects in a weather cam that corroborate the same time and date?

Just curious what you guys think as I'm on the fence still...


THIS

very good point. you just articulated what i couldn't quite describe, and why i found that particular part of the 4th video so impressive (i.e. the flash illumination of the direct area)
edit on 4-2-2011 by oleus because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 4 2011 @ 02:01 AM
link   
reply to post by oleus
 


After reading your post I realized that there was one more thing that I'd like to add. While watching the 4th video I was surprised to find myself naturally laughing along with the friends of the kid that has to pee and very naturally kind of enjoying the humor of it. What I mean is that these kids are really good actors to elicit that response in me, a non-Hebrew speaker. I kind of forgot for a moment what I was watching and just kind of jelled with the human moment. These are the kinds of things that seem to steer my critical thinking. For better or worse. Maybe it is critical feeling. Which works pretty well for many of us.



posted on Feb, 4 2011 @ 02:04 AM
link   
reply to post by Ashtrei
 


What about the possibility that the cell phone camera is on the back side of the phone, and the microphone on the front? does that change anything?



posted on Feb, 4 2011 @ 02:09 AM
link   
reply to post by Mr Mask
 



Just letting y'all know that your post just went viral.....


You may want to go check your last post/s and delete 3 on 'em!!

edit on 4-2-2011 by annella because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 4 2011 @ 02:22 AM
link   
I have seen the Youtube clips last week. I have a nagging doubt about it whcih crystalised when it was shown in the news on UK terestrial TV yesterday.

Could it be a light being shon on a pane of glass? and the speed of tghe upward motion was amazing. Could it not be explained as said hand held light being mved upwards to give th eillusion of rapid flight?

Don't all flame at once please



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