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Deportation Ordered for 88-Year-Old Man Accused of Killing A Jew During World War II

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posted on Feb, 2 2011 @ 08:55 PM
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Deportation Ordered for 88-Year-Old Man Accused of Killing Jew During World War II


www.foxnews.com

An immigration judge in Detroit has ordered the deportation of an 88-year-old retired auto engineer accused of killing a Jew while serving with a Nazi-controlled police force during World War II.

He served in the Ukrainian Auxiliary Police. The U.S. Justice Department says Kalymon claimed to have shot and killed a Jew in 1942 when Jews were being removed from what is now Lviv, Ukraine.

Kalymon was stripped of his U.S. citizenship in 2007.

(visit the link for the full news article)


edit on 2/2/2011 by VonDoomen because: (no reason given)

edit on 2/3/2011 by semperfortis because: BAN Guidelines.. Copy the EXACT Headline




posted on Feb, 2 2011 @ 08:55 PM
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I added the hypocritical part to the title for this quote right here

"The decision granting Mr. Kalymon's removal, and the more than 100 other cases won by the Justice Department against Nazi perpetrators, reflect our steadfast commitment to pursuing justice on behalf of the victims of crimes against humanity across the globe."

It seems our interpretation of "crimes against humanity" are easily bendable. Illegally invading a country, killing over a million people, and tanking the US/global economy is NOT a crime against humanity. However, shooting one person in war is?
Im not trying to justify what this man did, but murder is murder is murder, no matter the race of the murdered. It almost seems like these judges are saying the life of one person of jewish descent is worth more than whats happened in Iraq. How many people do you think live in the US that killed Allied forces during ww2? I bet theres more than a few.

It seems to me, this man is 88 years old. He worked a job and retired without causing to much trouble here after the war. I just dont see the point in deporting this man now, wasting more resources.

And to anyone in here who is going to start screaming anti-semite or whatever, dont bother! Cause im not justifying what this guy did. I dont justify murder in ANY form!

www.foxnews.com
(visit the link for the full news article)



posted on Feb, 2 2011 @ 08:58 PM
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I'm not sure how I feel about this. I'm thinking house arrest. At his age, it won't make much difference, but at the same time, it will have an effect on him.



posted on Feb, 2 2011 @ 09:01 PM
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reply to post by ladyinwaiting
 

Agreed! Thank you for the rational comment! I have a feeling i'll be feeling a little
for my post.

But yes, maybe monitored with an ankle bracelet, but like you said, he is 88 years old, retired, and he hasnt been causing trouble in the US. The man will probly be gone in a few years. Instead of using our tax money to deport him, why not let him stay here and keep paying taxes?



posted on Feb, 2 2011 @ 09:09 PM
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Wow, that is some revealing information. If the United States is ever found to be guilty of some type of war crime, does that mean every single person, from privates to Generals, would be held liable for the crime? Orders come down a chain of command...from this logic, almost a million or so people in the US military should be locked up, or kicked out of whatever country they might be living in at the time.

I think it's kind of pathetic, really. World War 2 is over. They convicted the commanders of the Nazi/German military during the Nuremburg trials. It is overkill to go after the low-level military police, just for following orders from their superiors. Even if he wasn't ordered to shoot on that particular occasion, he was instructed to do so at some point by his superiors, and was following orders.

It isn't right what the Nazis did during the war, but it also isn't right what the world courts are doing to the ones who simply served their country during that time, it is hypocrisy in it's most ridiculous form.



posted on Feb, 2 2011 @ 09:11 PM
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Assistant Attorney General Breuer said in a statement obtained by Fox News. "Neither he nor other human rights violators should be allowed to gain sanctuary in this country. The decision granting Mr. Kalymon's removal, and the more than 100 other cases won by the Justice Department against Nazi perpetrators, reflect our steadfast commitment to pursuing justice on behalf of the victims of crimes against humanity across the globe."

Faux news

Yeah, our country would never tolerate people who committed crimes against humanity to have sanctuary in this country, right?

Operation Paperclip

Too bad this guy wasn't a rocket scientist or one of the guys who experimented with germs and nerve gas on prisoners; they would have given him the keys to the city then.


Yep, this reeks of hypocrisy through and through.



posted on Feb, 2 2011 @ 09:13 PM
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we must imprison every soldier who has ever bombed a civillian target in every war in living memory otherwise this will be exactly what you are implying this is.
edit on 2-2-2011 by lewman because: tired used wrong word that sounded good at the time



posted on Feb, 2 2011 @ 09:14 PM
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i agree so much to say i dont know how to feel about it, but lets be realistic, this was SO LONG ago and like the op said there are most likely many more who killed both jewish and allied citizens, unless they are going to go probe the entire population and find EVERY single one, then punishing one at such a later date, ESPECIALLY considering the already stated opinion that he had a career and didnt cause any problems, is there really a need to pursue this?? i mean.. its happened whats done is done, but this is just crazy! WAR is WAR, in my opinion if they are gonna do this, they may as well throw every soldier whos ever killed right into jail.

and NO im not condoning the fact that he killed a jew, or anyone for that matter, and im not meaning to speak negatively about any soldiers who fight for their country or their beliefs but COME ON!!! this is just ridiculous, only in the US i assume? any examples of a similar case from another country i wonder?



posted on Feb, 2 2011 @ 09:16 PM
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Hypocrisy? Very possible.

Still, he's a nazi-bastard and deserves whatever misery finds him.



posted on Feb, 2 2011 @ 09:17 PM
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I'm sure the dept of injustice has forgotten all about operation paperclip or Air-America.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but he reportedly shot one Jew.
What about all of the muslim countries not just killing Jews, but murdering Christians as well. I don't hear of any current sanctions against them!



posted on Feb, 2 2011 @ 09:19 PM
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Originally posted by knylon90
Hypocrisy? Very possible.

Still, he's a nazi-bastard and deserves whatever misery finds him.


LOL

he is a nazy bastard is very easy to say when you dont know anything about the guy

nice keep doing that, lets hope no one ever does that to u



posted on Feb, 2 2011 @ 09:23 PM
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reply to post by Faiol
 


Originally posted by Faiol

LOL

he is a nazy bastard is very easy to say when you dont know anything about the guy

nice keep doing that, lets hope no one ever does that to u


I don't really need to know much about the man's personality other than he murdered someone. Is that not enough to assume he's a bad guy? I think it is.

I'll write it again, nazis deserve any misery that finds them. I don't buy the "following orders bit." A full-grown man should know right from wrong and act accordingly. He deserves what he gets, regardless of who may be fronting the bill.

I will admit that it is a waste of tax money to deport such an old man but, I really don't feel that bad for him. He's a murderer. He deserves what he gets.
edit on 2-2-2011 by knylon90 because: Added quote.



posted on Feb, 2 2011 @ 09:24 PM
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This case has been going on for over 6 years, I actually had forgot about it until today.
Here is the original DOJ complaint:
Complaint

The evidence against Mr. Kalymon is actually pretty damning, if not for the crime, but for lying on his visa application, either of which would require deportation. Here are a few snippets:


Evidence at the trial included an Aug. 14, 1942 report, handwritten by Kalymon, in which he informed supervisors that he personally killed one Jew and wounded another that day, authorities say.


He says he concealed his service in the Ukrainian police force on applications for an immigration visa to avoid being sent to the Soviet Union.


The immigration judge, who authored the removal order on Jan. 31, considered surviving records from the Ukrainian police to establish that Kalymon's duties included helping the Germans round up Jews and send them to death camps.

source

Perhaps the most damning element to me is the fact that his attorney tried to have the case thrown out due to mentl capacity. The main defense is no longer that he didnt do it, and then lie on immigartion docs, but that he is incompetent to stand trial.

An immigration judge cast doubt on mental-health problems claimed by an 89-year-old Michigan man who has been ordered deported for his service in a Nazi-controlled police force during World War II.

source

At the end of the day, my take on Mr. Kalymon is that he did do it, he did lie on his visa (he admits to this) but he will not be deported unless he lives for many more years. He is closing in on 90 years old and appealing the decision. He will die long before his deportation date.



posted on Feb, 2 2011 @ 09:33 PM
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reply to post by youdidntseeme
 


Can't blame him for lying on his immigration app if he was from the Ukraine.


Operation Keelhaul

Operation Keelhaul was carried out in Northern Italy by British and American forces to repatriate Soviet Armed Forces POWs of the Nazis to the Soviet Union between August 14, 1946 and May 9, 1947. The term has been later applied - specifically after the publication of Julius Epstein's eponymous book - to other Allied acts of often forced repatriation of former residents of the USSR after the ending of World War II that sealed the fate of millions of post-war refugees fleeing eastern Europe.

Wikipedia

As for his admitting to killing one Jew; does anybody know the circumstances of this killing? Maybe the guy was resisting arrest or was a member of a resistance unit. Everybody is assuming that the killing was done in cold blood or an act of genocide.

War is hell and terrible things happen on all sides. To try to hold a man responsible for something that happened during a war all these years later after he's led a good and peaceful life seems like a travesty of justice to me.

edit on 2/2/11 by FortAnthem because:




posted on Feb, 2 2011 @ 09:42 PM
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It would be nice if an example was stated that anyone would be eventually caught if they have been actively involved with killing or torturing people due to political power - especially if such people are persecuted merely for their race or ethnicity etc. They do not have to suffer physical pain or death - unlike their victims.

Caught and pointed out, not revenged - at 88, perhaps not even stigmatized, except in the free press.

In such sense, it is not hypocritical to catch all criminals actively collaborating with the Nazis.
It would set a standard for humanity.

No one says other mass murders or persecutions are "better" or cleaner. Take Stalin or Mao - it turns out that they were more vicious added it all up.
But, if all murderous Nazis are pointed out, with the help of surviving Jewish organizations, at least there would be ONE standard everyone could point towards on Earth.



posted on Feb, 2 2011 @ 09:43 PM
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reply to post by FortAnthem
 


I dont blame him for lying on the document, he was trying to circumvent the immigration system for fear of going back to the USSR. I probably would have done the same thing.

However, by doing so, I would have, as so he should have, known that if the dishonesty and circumvention be discovered, then there would be consequences for the deception. And that is what we are seeing here.

Forget everything else about the case, the alleged murder, war crimes, country of origin, ethnicity of the victim....
Lying on the immigration document, he should have never been admitted to the country to beging with.

Now add on everything else, an accused murderer, with a handwritten report admitting guilt, other documents putting this man on the trail to the death camps in Poland and lying about his past to gain access to this country.

I think its fairly cut and dry, ut like I said before, I dnt think he will ever see deportation.



posted on Feb, 2 2011 @ 09:48 PM
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reply to post by knylon90
 


i dont think its fair to say that HE is a nazi, if ive misunderstood the material then please ignore this, but from what i gathered he was employed by a NAZI CONTROLLED police force.. yes??

there are MANY documented cases of people under the nazi regime who were not of the same beliefs that they were forced into and were forced under threat of death to do their bidding..
Duress is a very strong force and must be taken into consideration..

I think i speak for more than just myself (but certainly not everyone) when i say that if the majority ruling the region in which i reside threatened to kill me or my family if i didnt kill someone that they approved of.. there would be no question. me or him? him.



posted on Feb, 2 2011 @ 09:50 PM
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reply to post by VonDoomen
 


You know what, this whole Jew thing is disgusting. A Jewish activist is trying to make it so you can see jail time in the Netherlands if you spew anything anti-semetic, or denying the holocaust.

news.yahoo.com...

Why are the Jews so "righteous"? Why should we chase down this man? He was a soldier who killed a single Jew, and nobody alive besides himself even knows the circumstances of the incident.

How about retribution for all the innocent people killed from Israel's radical policies?
edit on 2-2-2011 by RustyShakleford92 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 2 2011 @ 09:51 PM
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Lying on the immigration document, he should have never been admitted to the country to beging with.


HEREIN lies the real issue.

apologies for the back to back posting..



posted on Feb, 2 2011 @ 09:53 PM
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reply to post by knylon90
 


Actualy, your lack of understanding shines through on this.

If you have the attention span-
I would recomend you look into and understand social/group theory and ASCH CONFORMITY
ASCH CONFORMITY





Experiments led by Solomon Asch of Swarthmore College asked groups of students to participate in a "vision test." In reality, all but one of the participants were confederates of the experimenter, and the study was really about how the remaining student would react to the confederates' behavior.

In the basic Asch paradigm, the participants — the real subjects and the confederates — were all seated in a classroom. They were asked a variety of questions about the lines such as how long is A, compare the length of A to an everyday object, which line was longer than the other, which lines were the same length, etc. The group was told to announce their answers to each question out loud. The confederates always provided their answers before the study participant, and always gave the same answer as each other. They answered a few questions correctly but eventually began providing incorrect responses.
In a control group, with no pressure to conform to an erroneous view, only one subject out of 35 ever gave an incorrect answer. Solomon Asch hypothesized that the majority of people would not conform to something obviously wrong; however, when surrounded by individuals all voicing an incorrect answer, participants provided incorrect responses on a high proportion of the questions (32%). Seventy-five percent of the participants gave an incorrect answer to at least one question.


Lets hope your never one of the 75-90% that break and end up conforming to the group.

Do you have ANY idea what life was like for germany after world war 1?
You didnt really have a choice wether or not you wanted to fight when this war happened. These people werent Afforded the extreme luxury we have to say no. It was typically fight, or work slave labor. What good will that do for your family? You see, when you start looking into the social, politcal, and economic factors that effect people, especially ones which they have NO control over, you start to realize the serious situation many people found themselves in.

If you take anything from what I just taught you, I hope it will be to appreciate that YOU have never been put in a position even remotely close to how terrible that situation was, and the situations people of ALL creeds were put into.
edit on 2/2/2011 by VonDoomen because: (no reason given)

edit on 2/2/2011 by VonDoomen because: (no reason given)



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