The Egyptian Protesters are Wrong

Leader's are simply the public face of a much larger and complex chain of command. If there was not a leader, that chain of command could be held accountable. So leaders are basically hired fall-guys who take the flack for every problem that occurs in their country, they do not have sole and powerful control over the country.

Muzzleflash

Get real.
Seven people died on the Cairo streets yesterday.
They lived and died by the famous maxim of 'give me liberty or give me death'.
Looking at the decadence and stupity of the west, particularly the Zionist controlled United States one wonders how many Americans will eventually step up to the plate and stand by that great comment from a generation who knew what liberty meant and put their lives on the line.
I am watching Freedom Square as I write and now is not the time to make stupid philosophical comments and challenges.
These people are sheltering behind the paving slabs used as some sort of shields.
They are standing there waiting for the next onslaught from the state sponsored thugs.
They have no time for the nuances of what and what may be and what isn't.
It is the barracades of 1848.
Les Miserables.
Live free or die like some poor dog in a ditch.
Get your mind off your naval an get a dose of reality.
The FEMA camps are waiting.
Now is not the time for facile comments from facile people whose greatest threat seems to be if the McDonalds will not be open.

reply to post by muzzleflash


You would think that in the land of were the pyramids are, that those who live next to them would wonder on how or why they are in the shape they are, and what for? There fighting for a Figurehead for a Shepperd an idea and an ideal, basically something that does not exist. Such is the power of human thought especially in large groups, that it can turn a fool and tool into a king or demigod. And it is the structure of becoming and expressing there way, that they know, there must be somebody to direct things, or if not then at least somebody to appear like there directing things, so everybody can go and do as they do and always done. Without that system, how would the people "function" it's what they crave, and want. Just like when they get there new leader, and some time passes they will be arguing about that leader that they elected as the figurehead, and why he is not good.

Fear is always of the unknown, in this case of the unknown future, in a changing world. Somebody has to point a finger down a path that they all can go down, thats what there looking for, and tptb know that and I'm sure they have some plans, of what road they all should go down. Would they want to go down that road? does it matter as long as somebody makes a good looking abstract of how it will be, and were it will head. I'm sure they all will love to go, just remember ask no questions, and follow the asshole in front of you, the blind power of belief in the system, is the power at work there. Something that has been inbred in us for a long time, cant fight thousands of years of nature and human programing

www.activistpost.com...

And your leader is???????????????
As they impose censorship on the people of the USA.
Watching Aljazeera?.
Far chance.

reply to post by muzzleflash


HUH?

No dude ... you lost me on this one. What a crazy thought.

You have enlightened me dude and have shown me the light! I had not thought of it that way. Why? Because my sense of thinking about leaders of countries were that if you don't follow them you're screwed! Thank you!

reply to post by muzzleflash

Whatever works to mobilize the people toward an end, I guess. Right, wrong; consensus, no consensus. He may have no "power," but there he sits. The important thing is that they did mobilize, no?

You know why they protest? Because its a dictatorship. You deny this?
Mubarak pays people to reak havok and shoot protestors and what more.

Originally posted by HoldTheBeans
Hey OP tell your thoughts to Obama's henchmen when they herd you off to a FEMA camp. I'm sure plenty of folks in Iraq maybe thought the same way before they were tortured and killed by Sadaam too. Maybe not.

You will not be forced to go to a FEMA camp! People will fight with each other to go in there! People will be scared to death and they will see the FEMA camp as the last resort and therefore all of the sheeple will run there and overrun each other to have a place in those facilities. After they are in, all will be all prosecuted!

People will be induced to go to such places in order to be protected by their govt! Think about the rapture scenario! Dont people want to meet jesus up there? So please, dont await any force unless you go against it!

There is no spoon!

Originally posted by Mizzijr
We need to come together, not as Anarchist, and not as the government we know today. What we need to come together as is a word that isn't even made yet, because no society has EVER been there.

By the way, this is just a small quote from the best response to the original post, in my opinion. As far as your statement above, there is a word that has been made. It's called voluntaryism. And believe it or not, it is the essence of true anarchy. The information is out there, folks. For example, in the early days of the American colonies, the settlers and indigenous peoples practiced voluntaryism regularly.

There are many ways to become a society whereby people may peacefully coexist without a small elite oligarchy dictating the standards by which we are to live. I have seen a few names throughout this thread that are worthy of studying. If we really want the world to be a better place, we need to study and collaborate. Some of these names may surprise you. Some may offer both criticism and praise of anarchy. In any case, these are just a few brilliant minds to help you ponder the alternatives to the current way things in this world are done:

These are in no particular order...
Frederic Bastiat
Ayn Rand
Ralph Waldo Emerson
Henry David Thoreau
Samuel Adams
Thomas Paine
Patrick Henry
Karl Marx
Mohandis Gandhi
Martin Luther
John Wesley
Friedrich Nietzsche
Lysander Spooner
Leo Tolstoy
Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
and then last but not least: The Torah, Bible, Koran, and any writings of faith and spirituality

Don't stop here. Like I said, the information is out there. It is time for the world to wake up from the little Pre-Kindergarten Sleeping Mats and graduate into adulthood. I could spend all day pulling quotes and information, but I know that ATS members are likely to DO THE RESEARCH on their own.

This post has been opening some eyes but still some of those replying are still groggy from the nap.

S and F.

Peace.

reply to post by muzzleflash


I am sorry, what you are saying is horse pucky and pseudo philosophy that might find its way into a grade school handbook for anarchists, if there were such a thing. It is neither wise or profound. It is silly and in no way reflects the REALITY of what it means to be human and function in a civil society, which requires cooperation, which requires people to follow instructions of sorts.

I am sure your simplistic concepts would be so soothing to a 17th century slave bowing under the whip after she objected to having her children sold.

Utter nonsense and dangerous garbage typed from the cozy, non-threatening cocoon of your room.

Because of Egypt's unique connection to both the western and eastern countries the president has a power in wich everyone knows what is at stake.

For the people this never was supposed to be a monthly long demonstration beacuse of their demands wich is to get the main problem out of the way, Mubarak, and then start over. Because this is not a demonstration that really has been going on only in the last weeks but in many ways constantly since the change of the regime in 1981.

There is very much control in this situation when you break the pieces down to element, such as the pro demonstrators and the military force.
After the big clash yesterday we clearly see that this idelology about us leading a country without a leader is only possible if the leader is replaced by a group. But that is in many ways how a democratic system works where you have departements that all have a leader wich is represented in the administration as ministers.

THIS is where you cannot remove goverment because its the backbone of a society. Schools, industry, infrastructure, diplomacy etc.

We are so frightening far from being at the point of even considering a more global society, not just because of general conspiracies about power, but also as different countries with different values and GDP.

However, it is very clear that the ripple effect from the demonstrations will start some kind of change that could make the connection between east and west more flexible for foreign investments that truly can give this people a better life. We all know how painfully it must be to live in a world where everyday is a fight for food and what that must do to them when they see the life of tourists and those of a higher class, wich is growing and by that i mean that the upper middle class is the part of these countries that has seen profit from growth while the poor has only gotten it worse.

With this in mind i can't see how this will end, but a leader or a group of temporary leaders is needed.

Originally posted by pajoly
reply to post by muzzleflash

 

I am sorry, what you are saying is horse pucky and pseudo philosophy that might find its way into a grade school handbook for anarchists, if there were such a thing. It is neither wise or profound. It is silly and in no way reflects the REALITY of what it means to be human and function in a civil society, which requires cooperation, which requires people to follow instructions of sorts.

I am sure your simplistic concepts would be so soothing to a 17th century slave bowing under the whip after she objected to having her children sold.

Utter nonsense and dangerous garbage typed from the cozy, non-threatening cocoon of your room.

Well said! Really Refreshing

reply to post by darkl0rd


You should try going to a nation thats really oppressed.. Maybe you would start to see how good you have it compared to some in the world. Maybe you would see there no reason to sensationalise a lie to feel important and part of something bigger then yourself.

reply to post by muzzleflash


Seriously thats the best you can come up with...where did the stars come from? I didnt see where you qualified your self having an understanding of Arab culture. You didn't qualify your opinion. You didnt give us statistics, or facts. You just gave an opinion about something you clearly know little about or you would have expanded greatly about it. This doesn't even qualify for Pseudo Intel, Psyc, just opinion. Thats it Pseudo Opinion. Its all in the mind...OooooKaaaaaayyyy! I rather would have heard from you its a "wag the dog" just all on TV and not really happening at all.... I dont know how you got everybody to buy into your OPINION but maybe one of the politicions needs a speech writer. You obviously have an uncanny ability.

reply to post by mike184ever


Show a little optimism pal.
Don't think of threads like this as being so stupid and ill informed it makes your head hurt.
Think of them as perfect opportunities to flesh out your "respected" foes list.

These threads always bring out the strange minded atsers.

reply to post by mike184ever

I see you will not accept ideas that are not handed down to you from an 'authority' on high. You need 'statistics' to prove that political 'leaders' almost never have the best interests of the people at heart? Really?

I'm sure when people who work for the system conduct studies funded by institutions that rely on the existing power structure, they're not at all bias in favor of keeping the whole thing going. No, of course they must be trusted. Their credibility has been verified by the regime.

Heil, mein Führer!

Originally posted by nenothtu
[ALL rulers rule by consent of the governed, democratic and despotic alike. NO ONE can rule a man who refuses their rule - all they can do is kill him, and even that is on his own terms, not theirs.

Furthermore, ALL rulers derive their alleged "power" from control of the governed. Government itself is nothing more than a attempt at control, and only works against those so consenting to be controlled by it. Without their consent, their willing abdication of their own power to another, no control is possible, hence no governance.

You should tell that to Ed and Elaine Brown and thousands or millions of others that have been imprisoned or worse for victimless crimes. The OP sounds good in theory, but in reality the Browns did not consent to the gov't hauling them off for not paying taxes, they were forcibly taken by people who do believe the gov't has power. As long as those that believe in the leader's power exist, so does that leader's power.

reply to post by eMachine


I had stated something, but the first half of your post was worded so strangely I wasn't sure about it and took it off.

Originally posted by muzzleflash

Originally posted by DevilJin
You have a valid point but he does actually have to "step down" and officially resign. The "people" can't just rally together, take over without dealing with the old regime, hence making it officially over. Otherwise, it'd be a kind of occupation, if you will, of the governmental seat. You're right but technically wrong since we do live in a "civilized" society, not a tribe or the wild.

Actually you have it backwards.

We are not "civilized". A Civilized person does not need leadership. They can lead themselves just fine. Thus a "civilized" man is a "free" man.

Primitive people's are incapable of rational or logical thought. They are incapable of making good decisions. Therefore primitive people's need leaders to make choices for them.

Today Earth's population is entirely primitive in this respect.

If we simply led ourselves, all governments would lose power over night. Instantly.

But it requires all of us to shrug off the old outdated ideas of power and control that are actually just illusions.

Once we shrug it off, no government is necessary. We will become self-governing.

What you want is organization. You do not need leaders with power to form organization.

I have organized with friends, and we did not need a leader to achieve that. We did not have conflicts or lose control of ourselves, we just got together and agreed on some mutual aspirations.

What we humans really are seeking is organization and the agreement of mutual aspirations.
Don't need leaders for that.

Excellent point there and I agree, the shackles placed on out minds need to go. I think people get scared at the thought of no government. They wonder who will feed them, who will keep the conveniences within their life sustained. They forget that everyday people and not government employees make life livable. Of course, here in America, people would need to fight off a very heavy physical assault to gain such freedom.

Hundreds of thousands would be shot and blown to pieces trying to tear the hand of government from our collective society and even more would sit and starve rather than get together locally. It is how the past few generations have been conditioned...to rely on a father figure government, authority and media. Some would rather be slaves than free.