The Egyptian Protesters are Wrong

reply to post by mike184ever


Please don't take this as condescention or patronization, because it's not intended to be - it's a serious question, and may put my own ignorance on display:

WHERE are folks getting this odd notion that Egyptians are clamoring for "freedom", "democracy", or as you add here, "capitalism"?

Am I missing something by not watching TV any more? Is that where folks get this strange notion?

You're not the first to make that claim in this thread, so I have to wonder what the source of it is.

All I've heard is that they want rid of Mubarak - nothing at all about wanting to replace him with good ol' American values. The very notion is antithetical to the Arab cultures I've experienced..

reply to post by nenothtu


From some of the coverage I have seen ( interviews etc) people have stated they are wanting freedom. It, at least to me, harkens back to the Coptic church incident. When a car bomb went off at the church (christian) many egyptians were pissed it happened. They are sick of the death and destruction, and made the agrument that the attack was not on the coptic church, but on all egyptians.

The protests (anti mubarik) consist of people of all age groups, across all sectors (rich, poor, religious, educated, non educated, etc, etc). The fact women were involved in the protest, intermingeling with guys was also pointed out that in the past that was not allowed at all.

Usually protests like this revolve around denouncing something (the west, another religion, foreign policy of other countries etc). This protest was different in terms that it not only targeted the government, the normal rhetoric was not present. They peacefully demanded mubarik step down, and demanded elections and the freedom of choice, where normally you would see a violent protest and crackdown.

The 64k dollar question is will the demands for change be drowned out by extremists groups waiting for the right moment to take advantage of the chaos, or will freedom and a generation of people tired of the fighting / killing prevail.

reply to post by nenothtu


If you go back to what OP stated in the thread the point is that Mubarak is no longer the leader anyway. Why does it have to be officially stated that he is not the leader? It is clear that his oppression is not welcome in Egypt anymore and there is no need for someone else to be put into leadership of that country. If people just continue on ,contribute to society, and pick their brothers and sisters up off the streets than a leader is not necessary. Military is not necessary, taxes are not necessary, welfare is not necessary. None of it is necessary. Just wake everyday and do what inspires you naturally and everyone will mesh as one unit without dictatorship which is what every government is. They are all a form of dictatorship driven by the fear of insecurity.

reply to post by Xcathdra


Thanks for that. I reckon I AM missing something by not watching TV any more! It still strikes me as odd, and seems a bit suspicious, but that's just me. I'll wait to see what happens with it.

Odd, too, that it cuts across socioeconomic levels - that sort of shoots in the foot the notion that it's an uprising of the poor against the rich.

I have heard that most, if not all, of the top leadership of the Muslim Brotherhood who were in prison aren't any more, and are mingling among the protesters. If it runs true to historical form, they - being practically the only organized faction - will likely try to capitalize on the confusion and steer the movement into a direction of their own choosing, so you're absolutely right, the outcome IS the 54k dollar question.

Should the Muslim Brotherhood seize the momentum, all bets are off. They are the ones who assassinated Sadat in 1981 (paving the way for Mubarak), and bin Laden's "right hand man", Zawahiri, got his start with them.

Interesting times we live in.

Originally posted by Jessicacd36
reply to post by nenothtu

 

If you go back to what OP stated in the thread the point is that Mubarak is no longer the leader anyway. Why does it have to be officially stated that he is not the leader?

It really doesn't. No one has to "undeclare" his leadership, if he is universally ignored until he goes away or dies of old age. I can't think of a single reason an "official statement" is necessary. Matter of fact, the "official" part of that is completely unnecessary, don't you think? Wouldn't anyone with the authority to release an "official" statement be nothing more than a new leader?

It is clear that his oppression is not welcome in Egypt anymore and there is no need for someone else to be put into leadership of that country.

My concern is not that "his oppression" is no longer welcome in Egypt, it is rather what NEW oppression they want to replace his with.

If people just continue on ,contribute to society, and pick their brothers and sisters up off the streets than a leader is not necessary. Military is not necessary, taxes are not necessary, welfare is not necessary. None of it is necessary.

A military is only necessary if the want to avoid being overrun by invading neighbors. Otherwise, you're right, it's unnecessary. I believe taxes are already pretty low in Egypt, and I don't think they have a state--administered welfare system at all. As far as I can tell, you're right, NONE of that is really necessary.

Just wake everyday and do what inspires you naturally and everyone will mesh as one unit without dictatorship which is what every government is. They are all a form of dictatorship driven by the fear of insecurity.

Exactly! Now, that "meshing" thing would take a while to sort itself out, but it's not impossible, given the diversity of human interests. I agree wholeeartedly with your assessment of governments. A certin level may be necessary to fend off a minumum level of insecurity, but what we have now is entirely beyond the pale.

reply to post by nenothtu


I totally agree with everything you've stated and we can only hope that no leader is placed but the people instead realize that life isn't as scary as they are led to believe. Your absolutely right that if an public announcement is made that a new leader is placed in power than it only means that a new oppressor has taken the seat. I wish people around the world could just understand that when we contribute our passions and talents to society as a whole than we will all be safe and happy in life as one entity. Thanks for your thoughts

reply to post by Xcathdra

when all of this started,when reporters were still on the street,protesters were all pissy about not having freedom to grow economicaly. It was blamed on the internet that they can see America and western civilization as a whole having a grand lifestyle. So we have here ,IF THIS IS THE CASE, a nation of poverty standing up against its opressive ruler.
We all know that you cannot vote out poverty. We americans are also waking up that "The American Dream" and "Living The Dream" is the GRAND ILLUSION.

Some will argue with me but true riches cannot be created or destroyed. Riches are gathered, split up, shared. When somebody gets richer, somebody else gets poorer. Argue with me all you want and accuse me of ranting. I am not. Have you actually heard what Van Jones is preaching. Look him up. On your own time.

I have been to and lived in an Arab Culture. These people as a whole are quite content to be poor because they are not materialistic. Remember that this uprising is by a small % of the populis...

As for women in the streets along with the men....not for long..in their culture a woman has no say in anything. Ask the twenty year old woman from Iran .....oh you cant, her father ran her over. killing her because she stormed out of the house for the 5th time....this is embedded in Arabs.


One of the journalists picked up a tid bit of conversation between 2 brothers They were chanting FREEDOM then one of the brothers shouted ISLAM. The other brother shushed him and said "now is not the time,first freedom" that is a very dangerous comment. The Arabs only know the rule of the sword.

Look I too am trying to understand what is going on but if this is about opressed people trying to climb out of poverty, dont we have poverty here in America also. And who among you ,raise up your hands, will give up what you have worked hard for so they can share the "DREAM" "The Dream" is an Illusion chased by hard work and diligence.
Who can argue the Obama doesnt want to redistribute Wealth. If we see that this is a western Coup against wealth and a model, then how can we say "we the people" are not next

While I am here, if you take out 1 household income from each family havent you just created 100% inflation without raising the price on any goods and services........dont we have that going on right here in "Dream Land"