What is with all the threads attacking atheism/atheists lately?

Originally posted by tiger5

If you do not wish to ponder the origin of life that is your right to do so and I support that. All I ask is that people do not keep jumping in trying to derail threads of those who choose to ponder the origins of life.

I wasn't trying to derail your exchange. I wasn't even aware of it as I had only read replies on the first page and had to respond to that individual's ridiculous statement. My reply in no way keeps you from carrying on with your conversation.

Why are you preaching that people should be spending time worrying about the concrete. Can you now see the evangelical nature of your thinking?

I'm not 'preaching' to anyone. Not sure what you mean by the 'evangelical' comment.

How do you know that people do not ponder both. People can be surprisingly multi-valent even if you may not be so. For the record I have worked with Madness in my soul d to counter creationism.

People are more complex than you can imagine so perhaps you should watch your assumptions.

Why so defensive? My only point was that people waste so much time and energy pondering and debating something that will most likely always be unknown to humans.

reply to post by HarmonicNights



Sorry then. My mistake. Don't let me upset your day. you see us believers can be courteous. I do belive in evolution too.

I say live and let live. I was raised Catholic, had all my sacraments, but as I got older I formed my own opinion.
And Agnostic is definately me. I'm open to spirituality, just not convinced entirely. We should just give each other a break.

Stop trying to prove one or the other is correct and just believe what you believe.

And the one thing I took with me from my earlier christian upbringing is; "Treat others how you would like to be treated."

So like I said, live and let live.

reply to post by ScepticalBeliever


The notion that you are not supposed to judge is a misnomer... You can judge a persons actions, in fact, you are subscribed to; however, you cannot judge a person's soul. Only God can judge the person, but we can and are required to judge the person's actions.

Jaden

Originally posted by tiger5
Atheists have nothing to offer as any fool can say "I do not believe" or "prove it".

And sadly, most of the fools never say those things and instead believe all kinds of weird things for no good reason. Atheists offer such people the clarity of vision to ask such simple questions when they're of highest import.

reply to post by madnessinmysoul

"I find your lack of faith disturbing." One of the best lines in any movie, EVER. And if you don't know from which movie this came, then not only are you a heathen non-believer, but you're lame too. Just kidding about the heathen non-believer part.

Except for a few staged threads, I would liken trends on ATS like the paratrooper attack on Normandy. Scattered pockets of paratroopers out there in the dark, attacking Germans here and there --seemingly everywhere. The Germans had no idea how small the attack really was. The scattered nature of the paratroop landings and assaults gave the Germans the impression that it was somewhat larger and more coordinated than it really was.

So, IMHO, there's no coordinated effort to attack aetheists. I would imagine that many Christians (or whoever) have the modern notion of "Believe and let believe, or not." Some few probably even might think, "Let them go to ______ if they want to."

Personally, I believe that we have an afterlife of our own choosing. A non-believer who *believes* that there is NOTHING after death receives exactly that: nothing. There is no evidence that there is anything after death, and there is also no evidence that there isn't anything either. We simply don't know. Therefore, I choose to believe that there IS a greater power and that we DO have some energy (the soul, the force, the whatever), and that there IS existence for us after we depart this frail mortal coil.

Will I try to convince anyone else of this? Nah. Life's too short. For people who think that this world we experience called "reality" is all there is to "reality" and that there is nothing else... That's fine. Personally, for those who believe in a higher power have stopped looking at the shadow's on that cave an ancient Greek philosopher so eloquently spoke of in "The Allegory of the Cave." Check it out if you are unfamiliar with it, for there are different levels of perception and awareness. We have a choice about how we choose to see the world.

To each his own. And may you all find the happiness you seek. Focus determines reality.

One last thought: it does take a measure of FAITH to *believe* that there isn't more to this world that what we can hold in our hands or see with our eyes or taste with our tongues or smell with our noses or hear with our ears, IMHO.

Originally posted by GhostLancer
One last thought: it does take a measure of FAITH to *believe* that there isn't more to this world that what we can hold in our hands or see with our eyes or taste with our tongues or smell with our noses or hear with our ears, IMHO.

I don't believe I've ever heard any atheist claim that the world is strictly limited to what we can detect with our five senses. In fact, that has nothing whatsoever to do with atheism.

reply to post by traditionaldrummer

Atheists offer such people the clarity of vision to ask such simple questions when they're of highest import.

Nope, atheists offer their brand of clarity of vision. Again you are a proponent of the one right way. Sadly you seem unaware of how fundamentalist that sounds. Frankly that is also your belief as you cannot prove your brand of clarity of vision is the right way.

"Atheists offer" - ok take out the "Atheist" and replace it with "Xtian" how does that sound. Can you not see that evangelical atheism is a reasonable assessment of some atheist's conduct?

Some atheists further cement their belief system by being zealots 9in the religious sense). And finally most people have heard of atheism so it is not new.

reply to post by madnessinmysoul


I've also noticed a slight rise in topics attacking evolution, homosexuality and so forth.

It's as if a certain group of people completely missed the "Deny Ignorance" tagline.

reply to post by tiger5


And Christians offer an arrogant, self-righteous view of the world that demands attention and subservience to an invisible man in the sky.

Seriously, I welcome intelligent discussion on WHY I should believe in God. So far, no one's given me a credible reason to do so. You're welcome to try.

reply to post by madnessinmysoul


You associate skepticism with the opposite of belief. One can believe something and still be skeptical. The very act of being skeptical is a belief in and of itself.

In addition, things are changing. Atheism had its high, now its entering a low. Just like every other belief system out there. You wanted recognition. Well, welcome to the cycle.

Both Christians and Atheists are the ones who keep perpetuating the conflict.
God exists except, it's not what certain individuals attack themselves for.

There are plenty of people such has myself, that don't give a crap about these sort of argument anymore.
I can understand what God is all about. So i Just moved on. I suggest you all do the same. Stop fighting eachother

One Love.

reply to post by notsoperfect

Originally posted by notsoperfect
reply to post by madnessinmysoul

 

Humans have to believe in something.

I do agree with that. I just don't agree that we have to believe in anything supernatural or theistic.

The reason is because the rational mind has limited influence in human behavior. Sometimes, you need to act before figuring out if a certain action is moral and proper or not.

Which is why I do my best to maintain rational control.

You will find even the most avid atheist has certain sets of beliefs or prejudices before rational thinking.

Yes, but those beliefs and prejudices are based in reason and experience rather than in religious tradition. It's a removal of some prejudice, not all.

I would rather attack the Muslim belief system or that of the Hindus for the overall progress of the human society.

Why? I mean, there aren't many Muslims on ATS and there aren't many Hindus on ATS...and you'd just be stoking the flames of intolerance against a minority group. Sure, the religious claims are ridiculous, but why bother if you're not going to be confronting those who hold those beliefs?

If you believe the theory of human mind saying that you become what you worship,

I'm sorry, but that is in no way a 'theory of human mind'.

worshipping someone who resurrected after being killed of his good act should be the ultimate goal of a good and rational human being, because he/she will become one the same way.

Except you'd not be worshiping what you describe. He was killed and resurrected for no good reason. An omnipotent being didn't have to perform a blood sacrifice to do anything.

You will probably never know if it will ever happen, but how much superior is this belief system, compared to worshippling the animal (Cow for example) or someone who killed many others in his life time for his own survival (Mohammed for example).

I'm sorry, but not all Hindus worship cows. It's just a popular premise. And Muslims don't worship Mohammed, he's a prophet. Islam actually has as a fundamental principle that Allah is the only being worthy of worship.

In either of those inferior cases, you will become either a cow or a killer (or similar to that effect) at most.

I can only say a bit here: This was a stupid and empty post, lacking in reason and chock full of ignorance.

Originally posted by tiger5
Nope, atheists offer their brand of clarity of vision. Again you are a proponent of the one right way. Sadly you seem unaware of how fundamentalist that sounds. Frankly that is also your belief as you cannot prove your brand of clarity of vision is the right way.

Sorry, but I have proposed no way whatsoever, nor suggested that there is a right one. If you cannot make your point without lying then perhaps your point has no validity.

"Atheists offer" - ok take out the "Atheist" and replace it with "Xtian" how does that sound. Can you not see that evangelical atheism is a reasonable assessment of some atheist's conduct?

My statement was a response to your errant claim that atheists have "nothing to offer". If you poke and prod you just might receive some back.

Some atheists further cement their belief system by being zealots 9in the religious sense). And finally most people have heard of atheism so it is not new.

Sure. Some atheists can be zealous, abrasive jerks.
And just so you don't go making even more incorrect assumptions, atheism is not a belief system.

reply to post by GhostLancer


Do you remember what happens after that line is uttered? The believer starts to strangle someone. Really bad example there.

As for this quote:

One last thought: it does take a measure of FAITH to *believe* that there isn't more to this world that what we can hold in our hands or see with our eyes or taste with our tongues or smell with our noses or hear with our ears, IMHO.

Well, of course. You'd be discounting the majority of the electromagnetic spectrum, sounds below 20 Hz and above ~20,000 Hz, temperatures above and below human thresholds...etc....

Of course, it doesn't take any measure of faith to reject claims that there is more to this world than the material. Any claim made without evidence can be rejected without evidence.

Originally posted by tiger5
Anyone offering unsolicited preaching or inappropriate scepticism runs the risk of being bashed.

The simple fact that you feel scepticism to be inappropriate shows just how myopic you are.

Scepticism is NEVER inappropriate - a truly intelligent and free individual must be reasonably sceptical of all things, ALL of the time. You cannot argue with this, the logic is infallible.

The Rev.

reply to post by _SilentAssassin_


I'm sorry, I refuse to accept any claim of any deity without evidence. As I've said many times before, as others greater than me have said before me, any claim made without evidence can be rejected without evidence.

reply to post by Blue Shift


You called it right there, Blue Shift, it is entrainment, especially for those with a great deal of knowledge and a strong understanding of the English language. Better than watching the History Channel or a good Clint Eastwood movie. I think it is time we examined our belief system in general, and questioned everything about our "beliefs."
We are not a static thing here, we are a dynamic, and we are in motion all the time. We learn, we evolve, we become. The "Hidden Hands" behind everything are controlling religion, I tend to strongly believe it is the Draco. Religious belief chains a Spirit down to Earth, 3rd dimension. We are destined to "move on up" to the New World that either we have created, or has been created for us. Heaven, as it were.
Those who deny the Spirit, and those who have embraced Technology and have forgotten about Spirit, and those filled with anger and strife, and those who will go to churches and wait to be saved will not make it, I think.

reply to post by Gorman91

Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by madnessinmysoul

 

You associate skepticism with the opposite of belief.

...because it is the opposite of belief in this case. Skepticism can lead to belief. You are skeptical of the initial claim, test the claim, and then only accept the claim if it passes whatever tests it needs to pass...belief can be derived this way. Of course, no religion passes any test.

One can believe something and still be skeptical. The very act of being skeptical is a belief in and of itself.

How is not accepting claims which lack sufficient evidence a belief in and of itself?

In addition, things are changing. Atheism had its high, now its entering a low. Just like every other belief system out there. You wanted recognition. Well, welcome to the cycle.

Atheism had its high? I'm sorry, but its still the fastest growing 'religious' group in most western nations.

reply to post by The Sword


Oh, the number of threads ignorantly attacking evolution seems to have skyrocketed lately. Normally you'd get one or two big ones...but now we're getting more medium sized ones.