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What is with all the threads attacking atheism/atheists lately?

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posted on Feb, 10 2011 @ 03:47 PM
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Originally posted by Condemned0625
You claim that the discovery of other Earth-like worlds is "against" the possibility of intelligent life, but that's just an opinion. How the hell is that a "vote" against it? There never was a damn vote in the first place. It's time for facts and statistical probabilities, not mere opinions.


Oh, I absolutely agree, which is why I brought it up -- it changes one of the key variables in the Drake Equation, to statistically favour lots of interstellar life. That's the good part. The bad part is that there's no evidence of alien civilizations that one would typically say is concrete enough to call factual. It is ludicrous to say that all life would form, evolve and advance at the same rate, or starting at the same time, or even that we, as humans are the first.

So, statistically, the conclusion is that there's lots of life out there, a fair amount of which should be significantly more advanced than we (consider the exponential growth of technology in the past 50 years -- now apply that to a civilization that had a thousand year head start on us, a million year head start. A billion. It's unfathomable.) So the Fermi Paradox poses the question -- well then, where are they? There are a number of answers to that question that fit in with your beliefs, but I personally take a kind of negative view -- the constraints of General Relativity and the incredible distances between stars make practical interstellar travel impossible, so we're all just kind of drifting on our islands in space and, within such a closed system, no society can be particularly long lived.

If you are so inclined, there's a great science fiction novel by Larry Niven called The Mote In God's Eye which features an alien race that is subjected to that isolation, and what their civilization becomes as a result of thousands of years of living in a system that has long ago run out of natural resources.




posted on Feb, 10 2011 @ 03:59 PM
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reply to post by adjensen
 


Hate to be pedantic but the Moties were Niven AND Pournelle's creation. As was the sequel The Gripping Hand from '94, a 20 year gap.
Highly recommend Footfall, if you haven't read it, by the same authors. Another interesting look at first contact.



posted on Feb, 10 2011 @ 04:18 PM
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Originally posted by EarthCitizen07

Perhaps your not aware that most religious texts have been significantly altered and/or banned meaning the true words of god have been mixed with paganism, especially up to the 4th century ad by the romans. Why would the various religious councils need to ban something like 30 books and barely mention anything about satan in the meantime?


See my thread "Is the New Testament Fabricated & Fraudulent?" on: www.davidicke.com...

The New Testament appears to be a total fabrication derived in the 4th century era of Constantine from aspects of "in all, two thousand two hundred and thirty-one scrolls and legendary tales of gods and saviors, together with a record odoctrines orated by themf the " ("Life of Constantine," Ibid); however whenever a Christian refers to the fraudulent, edited and re-edited New Testament, they are generally not agreeing with the conclusions of historical and textual criticism, which would destroy their entire faith; they are usually just claiming that some passage which they disagree with, and which does not suit their personal beliefs and misinterpretations can be discarded as being unreliable; they are then free to just make up their religion as they go along and to later reject the conclusions of literary and historical criticism when there is some pasage they wish to cite.


"her"? What makes you think god is a her or him?


What makes you think that god is a "man?" Could this just be a projection of your own homo-erotic desires for a dominant sadistic male?



Originally posted by Lucifer777
Dear Jesus

I would also like you to give "Adjensen" the power to cure all lepors and blind people in the world, and the power to miraculously cast mountains into the sea, and I would like you to do this immediately; and while you are at it, I would like you to immediately remove all Christians and religious fanatics from the earth; I pray all this in Jesus name.

Regards

Your eternal enemy.
Lucifer


Ah this explains a lot! I was going to call you an ignorant fool but then I saw this ridiculous letter


Well you are not mocking me really, but rather you are mockng your god Jesus. I am just responding to his teachings. After all he did claim that "anythng" that we requested in his name would be answered. I was only requesting that your Christian brother could have the power to cure leprosy and blindness and the power to throw mountains into the sea.



and realise your one of those new age LaVey satanists! Do tell us, are you a theistic satanist or an "atheist" satanist?

That should be interesting.


Well the Laveyan Satanists are essentially just atheists who believe that your sadistic and genocidal deity is just an anthropomorphic psychological projection and has no real existence. I do agree that the Biblical deity is an evil anthropomorphic projection, however I am not convinced that this ancient deity is "only" a mental projection; as a consequence of a lifetime of experiences with shamanic psychoactives, I do tend to "believe" that such demonic deities do actually exist in other dimensions; I am really more of a Crowleyist than a Laveyan; my revulsion for your Biblical deity has nothng to do with the alleged existence of non existence of your sadistic, genocidal god, it has more to do with how he is defined, and the rather long and bloody history of his devotees

Lux
edit on 10-2-2011 by Lucifer777 because: mis-spelling-itis



posted on Feb, 10 2011 @ 04:18 PM
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Originally posted by adjensen
So the Fermi Paradox poses the question -- well then, where are they? There are a number of answers to that question that fit in with your beliefs, but I personally take a kind of negative view -- the constraints of General Relativity and the incredible distances between stars make practical interstellar travel impossible, so we're all just kind of drifting on our islands in space and, within such a closed system, no society can be particularly long lived.


If your going to discount the possibility of wormholes, nuclear energy and anti-matter then what you say has lots of merits, however lots of sci-fi books have been written and many sci-movies produced, meaning its more than likely aliens are visiting us constantly but do not wish to make their appearance in public.

Why they chose to remain in secret is a large debate but I doubt ATS posters have the maturity to discuss this with the appropriate civillity, so I might as well let it go and stick to mainstream discussions. I mean no disrespect but everyone says "hoax this" and "hoax that" so what other conclusions can be drawn?

Yeah lets blame the lack of disclosure on pseudo-mainstream religious dogma though, since its so convienent for the governments to blanket smear the public with ignorance while simultaneously allowing themselves immunity to backstab the public.



posted on Feb, 10 2011 @ 04:58 PM
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Originally posted by Lucifer777
The New Testament appears to be a total fabrication derived in the 4th century era of Constantine from aspects of "in all, two thousand two hundred and thirty-one scrolls and legendary tales of gods and saviors, together with a record odoctrines orated by themf the " ("Life of Constantine," Ibid); however whenever a Christian refers to the fraudulent, edited and re-edited New Testament, they are generally not agreeing with the conclusions of historical and textual criticism, which would destroy their entire faith; they are usually just claiming that some passage which they disagree with, and which does not suit their personal beliefs and misinterpretations can be discarded as being unreliable; they are then free to just make up their religion as they go along and to later reject the conclusions of literary and historical criticism when there is some pasage they wish to cite.


I am not a closed minded religious fanatic so when evidence of anything is presented I always take a look at it and judge the contents for myself. I know for a fact the council of laodicea banned quite a few christian books but the jews banned "controversial" material themselves so where does that leave us?


Originally posted by Lucifer777
What makes you think that god is a "man?" Could this just be a projection of your own homo-erotic desires for a dominant sadistic male?


I think of god as neither male or female. I think of god as the absolute of absolutes!


Originally posted by Lucifer777
Well you are not mocking me really, but rather you are mockng your god Jesus. I am just responding to his teachings. After all he did claim that "anythng" that we requested in his name would be answered. I was only requesting that your Christian brother could have the power to cure leprosy and blindness and the power to throw mountains into the sea.


Jesus is the alleged son of god and of the virgin mary! Jesus may have had the power to cure illnesses and perform other special tasks, but why should he give everyone those powers, especially to those who do not believe in him?


Originally posted by Lucifer777
Well the Laveyan Satanists are essentially just atheists who believe that your sadistic and genocidal deity is just an anthropomorphic psychological projection and has no real existence. I do agree that the Biblical deity is an evil anthropomorphic projection, however I am not convinced that this ancient deity is "only" a mental projection; as a consequence of a lifetime of experiences with shamanic psychoactives, I do tend to "believe" that such demonic deities do actually exist in other dimensions; I am really more of a Crowleyist than a Laveyan; my revulsion for your Biblical deity has nothng to do with the alleged existence of non existence of your sadistic, genocidal god, it has more to do with how he is defined, and the rather long and bloody history of his devotees


Thanks for explaining your position clearly however I believe you are "missing the boat" by using corrupt religion as an excuse to practice crowley's dark mysticism. Even if the bible and other religious texts have been totally perverted by the will of satan I do not see how that justifies hate in jesus and god.

If anything it should make you want to get to the bottom of this great mystery once and for all!
edit on 10-2-2011 by EarthCitizen07 because: fixed quote



posted on Feb, 10 2011 @ 05:05 PM
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Originally posted by EarthCitizen07

Originally posted by adjensen
So the Fermi Paradox poses the question -- well then, where are they? There are a number of answers to that question that fit in with your beliefs, but I personally take a kind of negative view -- the constraints of General Relativity and the incredible distances between stars make practical interstellar travel impossible, so we're all just kind of drifting on our islands in space and, within such a closed system, no society can be particularly long lived.


If your going to discount the possibility of wormholes, nuclear energy and anti-matter then what you say has lots of merits, however lots of sci-fi books have been written and many sci-movies produced, meaning its more than likely aliens are visiting us constantly but do not wish to make their appearance in public.


Stable wormholes of sufficient constancy are theoretically unlikely (though possible, of course, and if someone had that million year head start, well...) but barring such "tricks", no type or amount of energy (within reason) is going to accomplish practical interstellar travel through real space. Generational ships, sure, but that's for colonization, not exploration, so we once again butt our heads into the "where are they?" because if they were colonizing planets a million years ago, they'd be everywhere, including here, long before the planet showed the slightest inkling of harbouring intelligent life.

If I had to choose another answer from the Fermi possibilities, it would likely be the "quarantine" option -- we're sufficiently violent and unpleasant that I kind of doubt that any advanced race would put out the welcome mat. The fact that we seem to get worse and worse is an indication that, if they were hiding here and guiding us, they're pretty darned ineffective.



posted on Feb, 10 2011 @ 05:28 PM
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Originally posted by adjensen
Stable wormholes of sufficient constancy are theoretically unlikely (though possible, of course, and if someone had that million year head start, well...) but barring such "tricks", no type or amount of energy (within reason) is going to accomplish practical interstellar travel through real space. Generational ships, sure, but that's for colonization, not exploration, so we once again butt our heads into the "where are they?" because if they were colonizing planets a million years ago, they'd be everywhere, including here, long before the planet showed the slightest inkling of harbouring intelligent life.


By generational ships do you mean aliens living&traveling in big hollow spheres at less than light speed?

BTW I saw a history channel documentary yesterday about the mysteries of the bermuda triangle, where a pilot by the name of bruce gernon claimed to enter a wormhole and made a 20 minute journey within 2 minutes. The guy seems pretty sincere to me. Also flight 19 mystery that was about a hundred miles off the shore of florida somehow mysteriously ended up crashing in northern flordia close to the georgia border according to navy records that never made it public.

Many ships and airplanes have mysteriously disappared both in the bermuda triangle and the dragons triangle. I am pretty sure there are lots of mudane explanations, but still it makes for great discussion and wondering of the mind if nothing else.



posted on Feb, 10 2011 @ 05:39 PM
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Originally posted by EarthCitizen07

I am not a closed minded religious fanatic so when evidence of anything is presented I always take a look at it and judge the contents for myself. I know for a fact the council of laodicea banned quite a few christian books but the jews banned "controversial" material themselves so where does that leave us?


Well why stop there; if you look at the article hyperlinked on my previous post, there is ample evidence that the entire New Testament can be considered entirely unreliable and a complete fabrication.



Originally posted by Lucifer777
Well you are not mocking me really, but rather you are mockng your god Jesus. I am just responding to his teachings. After all he did claim that "anythng" that we requested in his name would be answered. I was only requesting that your Christian brother could have the power to cure leprosy and blindness and the power to throw mountains into the sea.


Jesus is the alleged son of god and of the virgin mary!


Well you probably believe that due to years of religious hypnosis and indoctrination; you probably don't believe the irrational myths of 100's of other gods, but you can believe that Jesus (i.e., God) impregnated his mother (the Mother of God) in order to give birth to himself.


Jesus may have had the power to cure illnesses and perform other special tasks, but why should he give everyone those powers, especially to those who do not believe in him?


You should perhaps consider taking such questions up with the dead god and religious charlatan, Jesus himself, since it was he who claimed that his followers would have the power to work miracles, miraculously heal the sick and indeed that any request in his name would be granted; it is such texts which form the basis of the multi bliiion dollar miracle healing business of the professional Jesus business charlatans who prey on the sick and the vulnerable.


Even if the bible and other religious texts have been totally perverted by the will of satan I do not see how that justifies hate in jesus and god.


With regards to "hating Jesus," I consider the Jesus of the Gospels to be a fabricated, fictional figure; if the myth is based on a real person, it is impossible to be certain of anything about him, and it is really no more appropriate to hate a fictional character like Jesus as it is to hate Donald Duck.

With regards to hating "God" I am merely referring to the sadistic Biblical deity, which was one of many tribal deities of the ancient world, and was certainly an anthropomorphic projection of the authors of the texts, who were rather primitive and barbaric religious fanatics. The idea that this tribal deity is a definition of the Creator of the Universe, if there is a Creator, I think would be rather instulting to Her.

Since the Biblical definition of a deity would probably be most modern non religious people's definition of an evil, human hating, psychopath, irrespective of whether this deity exists or not, I most certainly do despise the Biblical fanatics who consider such an evil definition of a deity to be the definition of "goodness;" it is anyway human nature to despise evil and to hate one's enemies; however more than merely despising such morally repugnant wretches, I consider them to be genocidally dangerous; there are after all hundreds of millions of Biblical fanatics, they infiltrate and seek to control governments, they have armies and nuclear weapons; they constitute one of the central threats to humankind; it is a far more serious matter than some fictional deity.

Lux
edit on 10-2-2011 by Lucifer777 because: mis-spelling-itis



posted on Feb, 10 2011 @ 05:41 PM
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Originally posted by EarthCitizen07

Originally posted by adjensen
Stable wormholes of sufficient constancy are theoretically unlikely (though possible, of course, and if someone had that million year head start, well...) but barring such "tricks", no type or amount of energy (within reason) is going to accomplish practical interstellar travel through real space. Generational ships, sure, but that's for colonization, not exploration, so we once again butt our heads into the "where are they?" because if they were colonizing planets a million years ago, they'd be everywhere, including here, long before the planet showed the slightest inkling of harbouring intelligent life.


By generational ships do you mean aliens living&traveling in big hollow spheres at less than light speed?


Yeah, effectively a portable planet that is self sustaining and has everything that you'd need to start a new civilization someplace else, and a "crew" that is capable of dealing with the fact that they'll never see their destination. A very optimistic guess (found here) is that it would take 85 years to get to the nearest star from us, so the crew that took off from Earth likely wouldn't be the crew that arrived there, and that assumes that there's a planet to settle there -- if there isn't, off you go to the next one.

Errant generational ships was a popular theme in science fiction short stories in the 50s, once it became pretty evident that the speed of light was, in fact, a pretty practical limit.


Many ships and airplanes have mysteriously disappared both in the bermuda triangle and the dragons triangle. I am pretty sure there are lots of mudane explanations, but still it makes for great discussion and wondering of the mind if nothing else.


It sure does
Life is pretty boring if you can't use your imagination.



posted on Feb, 10 2011 @ 06:06 PM
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Originally posted by notsoperfect
reply to post by madnessinmysoul
 


Humans have to believe in something.

Since when? Open mind policy here pal. Don't start with, I'm not your pal... Religion is the evil, on this rock, I have witnessed it first hand, I can tell ya.. Religion is for folk who are afraid of dying, then try and take it out on everyone else..



posted on Feb, 10 2011 @ 09:31 PM
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No, it is because this site has been infested! They are those here now whose purpose is to ruin the site. Like ridiculous threads, over flagging of threads that should be junked and causing arguments. Also they post topics that are so ridiculously stupid that it makes everyone on here to look like nutbars.



posted on Feb, 11 2011 @ 09:57 AM
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reply to post by adjensen
 



Oh, I absolutely agree, which is why I brought it up -- it changes one of the key variables in the Drake Equation, to statistically favour lots of interstellar life


"Fermi paradox"

A good read too

edit on 11/2/11 by awake_and_aware because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 11 2011 @ 12:48 PM
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Originally posted by awake_and_aware
reply to post by adjensen
 



Oh, I absolutely agree, which is why I brought it up -- it changes one of the key variables in the Drake Equation, to statistically favour lots of interstellar life


"Fermi paradox"

A good read too


I guess that you missed my later reference to Fermi in that post, but, yes, it is a very good summation of the problem, as well as a starting point for considering the reasons. As I said, I'm in favour of the limitations of practical interstellar travel, though my second choice would probably be a quarantine or intentional isolation from louts such as us.



posted on Feb, 11 2011 @ 01:09 PM
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reply to post by adjensen
 


Humans are not inentionally violent creatures. I dont think its in their dna so to speak. I think we are being controlled by ultraterrestrial demons on this very planet we call earth. The "forbidden history" that I kept alluding to but few people notice or understand, has to do with reptillian "alliens" that have lived here before man and have problably set up man to be his unconditional slave. We could not evolve from cave dwellers to what we are now without some intelligent guidance and that is why I disagree with hardcore evolutionists!

Greys, pleadians, arcturians, reptillians, chupacabra, montauk monster, demons, angels, god, satan are not unprovable if you are in the correct circles but for everyone else its mere speculation. People working in area 51 and dulce underground labs have already spoken decades ago but they always get discredited for a or b reason. I am not sure everything should be public but I also question why everything should be hidden as well. Something is not right in my honest opinion and yes I smell a conspiracy to mislead and control. Human elites, the illuminati, must be coperating with these alliens on a need to know basis hence the national security state, the various clearances of which some may be hidden themselves, the saps(special access programs) of which are acknowledged or unacknowledged, etc.

I suggest you and others take a close look at project camelot to get an idea. Yes it can be shocking but do people prefer to remain in the dark with wishful thinking alone? Maybe something can be done and a revolution of the mind will transform to a revolution of politics but we gotta start by accepting the truth for what it is. A revolution just for the sake of revolution is counter-productive and dumb! Thanks for the rant...............



posted on Feb, 11 2011 @ 01:19 PM
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edit on 11-2-2011 by EarthCitizen07 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 11 2011 @ 01:29 PM
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reply to post by adjensen
 


Apologies, i didn't see that - I quite like the concept of a Type 1, 2 and 3 civilisations.

Michau Kaku



I also entertain the possibility that chances of life forming in the universe could be a lottery, We could have been formed on an absurd probability, the chances COULD be very small of life forming. We COULD still be the only life in the universe, but i think that would be surprising


Logically, especially based on observation of millions of gallaxies, i think it is quite likely. I think that would be a somewhat rational take on that.

By what logic and reason to you form your faith in God? Have you heard of the Atheists wager? (Similar to Pascal's wager)



posted on Feb, 11 2011 @ 01:30 PM
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Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
I suggest you and others take a close look at project camelot to get an idea. Yes it can be shocking but do people prefer to remain in the dark with wishful thinking alone? Maybe something can be done and a revolution of the mind will transform to a revolution of politics but we gotta start by accepting the truth for what it is. A revolution just for the sake of revolution is counter-productive and dumb! Thanks for the rant...............


No worries, that's what anonymous forums are for


Though some would question it, I'm an extremely pragmatic person, and for some reason, my brain is wired to see almost everything in terms of maths and statistics, or at least to see that component of something before setting it aside and looking from another direction.

The struggle that I have to accept any conspiracy, let alone sweeping ones that fly in the face of exposed reality, is that I've seen that one of the most common human characteristics is that we like to blab. Constantly. You want to get some information disseminated? Slap a "top secret" stamp on it, or tell someone and instruct them to never, ever, ever tell anyone else. The weirder the news is, the quicker you're likely to see it on the news.

Why? Psychologically, some people just want to seem smarter, or more "in the loop" or some other attribute that sets them apart from others. Or they feel guilty about knowing it, or they're worried that if they don't tell someone, it will be lost.

I once had a close relationship with someone who had high level security clearance with the DoD, and I finally had to tell them to shut up about what they did for a living. Part of that was because I found it boring, but mostly it was because I didn't want them to get in trouble if they were ever questioned about security (as well as not getting dragged into it myself.)

So, pragmatically, when you look at that fact, you quickly come to the conclusion that the more people that are needed for a conspiracy, the less likely that it is to not be out in the open. You've a secret on your own? Well, that's pretty safe, so long as you don't have a streak of intellectual bravado and go drinking in pubs much. Add a few people in, now it's less likely to stay hidden. Put in a couple hundred, maybe a bureaucracy, now all of the sudden it's practically impossible.

That said, if there was a massive, worldwide conspiracy to hide aliens among us or some other massive undertaking, I'd be far more interested in how they keep it under wraps than the actual goings on, because whatever they'd be doing to control that "blab instinct" is far more likely to have a negative impact on me than the secret that they're hiding.



posted on Feb, 11 2011 @ 01:45 PM
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Originally posted by awake_and_aware
By what logic and reason to you form your faith in God? Have you heard of the Atheists wager? (Similar to Pascal's wager)


No, I haven't, but Pascal's Wager is a dumb argument, so I'd assume that anything similar would suffer from the same deficiency.

My state of faith is a lifetime journey, but the bit that opened my eyes came out of some things that I was doing in maths and physics, and, for the first time in my life, instead of settling on the "how" of it, I was struck by the "why". That sent me off to think about things, and when I was done, I had a radically different view of God than I had before, and from that moment on, I've seen enough things in my life and the lives of others to say that my journey is on the right path, for me.

My Christian view is that we need the grace of God to have faith, but we have the freedom to dismiss it. At that point in my life, I had the grace, I had the "revelation", and I wanted to step through that door. Haven't regretted it since.

"Why" is a very deep hole to crawl into, and, no matter what conclusions (or lack thereof) one might come to, I think that we're all a bit wiser for the contemplation.



posted on Feb, 11 2011 @ 01:48 PM
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reply to post by adjensen
 



My state of faith is a lifetime journey, but the bit that opened my eyes came out of some things that I was doing in maths and physics


Well what about "The mandelbrot set" or the "fibonacci sequence" these mathematical formulas imply infinity. Could you entertain the POSSIBILITY that reality could be infinite, and there is no creator required?

Or are you happy enough to call infinity "GOD"? This seems like the pantheism stance to me.



posted on Feb, 11 2011 @ 02:06 PM
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reply to post by adjensen
 


First of all everything is highly compartalised in the DOD and second the government(s) are using so many security features that is practically impossible to get information out. These people get paid lots of money for the job they do and if they open their mouth they lose everything, sometimes even their life. Under these circumstances human instincts of survival kick in and people do what is best for them, not best for society.

Then consider the fact that big multinational corporations run the government because they pay for the campaign election process and you begin to see a clear pattern emerge. Corporations have their own secrets and they protect them for profit such as trademarks, patents and copyrights. People do not stand a chance of knowing anything unless they work for the military industrial complex and have the appropriate security clearance as well as the need to know.

Its a losing battle imo but some brave people will come forth none-the-less and already have. The real issue is that people have been conditioned to believe in authority and government as the be-all and end-all and when information leaks do develop hush-hush disinfo agents, sponsored by the government and subdelegated to public relation firms, kick in to squash everything. I have a member on ATS for years and a member on other conspiracy sites as well and I can tell you first hand that lots and lots of good valuable information has been swept under the carpet never to be dredged to the surface. The powers to be cannot afford any public disclosure of anything it seems other than a few theories tosted out for people to contemplate. Here is another great video but I will leave it at that because we are going off topic:




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