What is with all the threads attacking atheism/atheists lately?

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reply to post by tiger5


Sounds like you're sort of describing an illusion that subconscious states of brains produces, which does play a role in the experiences religious people speak of. If you want to experience it, you have to believe it and then your brain will do the rest of the work for you to produce the illusion.

Originally posted by Condemned0625
reply to post by EarthCitizen07

 

No, I disagree with those concepts entirely. A god and an anti-god would require creators. The creators would also require creators and so forth. That's called infinite regression and it demonstrates that a god cannot exist. In order for the biblical god to exist, it would have to be possible to obtain infinity because he is claimed to be infinite in all attributes. Most critical thinkers and debunkers know that this is simply not the case because infinity does not hold any specific value, rendering the so-called "infinite" god to be finite. A god cannot create itself because it must exist in the first place to create itself, which is contradictory because there would be no need to create itself if it already exists, which suggests that this god was already created by someone or something else. Nobody knows exactly how the universe began, but it certainly does not require a god.

That is why gods are impossible. Debunked.

Good arguement but I don't necessarily believe in an infinite god and perhaps that is were the bible goes astray in assuming god is all-powerful and the creator of all. I uphold the fringe belief of god in that he is general of intergallactic aliens fighting bad aliens commanded by satan. In other words its a galactic affair!

Perhaps there is an all-encompassing creator who controls everything and is infinite but that is not my version of "god" I suggest you read "The Cosmic Conflict" by Branton as it was very eye opening for me and explains everything much differently. I have already claimed that mainstream religion is for the most part a farce due to the influence of pagan/satanic beliefs of the time.

reply to post by madnessinmysoul


So you play to the audience entertainment a key factor, focus on one religious group as it's the one you know best and are selective even at that point. Ok, a troll then.

You can't not believe in a deity if you don't know what a deity is - hence my point about implicit atheism that you didn't actually answer.

You say Jesus wasn't right about everything so you acknowledge such a person existed and the new testament is a record of his life

Your division of atheism is actually stupid - you are aware of the concept of a deity and say you do not believe in it - that makes said person an atheist. If there is any doubt over belief then they are not an atheist. You can say differently as much as you like, frankly it doesn't make you right, it's your opinion. I've said I consider your opinion ridiculous, it is. I just checked in a dictionary in case rules had changed. Atheism is defined as a disbelief in God. That's it. Stop trying to over complicate things to make it sound more interesting.

I have no desire to ridicule you as a person (although I find the fact that atheism has organised groups a little laughable, what would you talk about all night - oh, let me guess, not your lack of belief in God, but your scorn for those that do), I just find it strange that such a personal statement as "I don't believe in God" needs anything more to quantify it.

reply to post by EarthCitizen07


If there is a "god", it can only be a supreme extraterrestrial leader. However, that doesn't mean the leader is all-powerful. He/She can be overthrown by someone else and it could be a continuous cycle. The biblical Satan does not exist and never will. Good and evil are concepts and do not represent universal facts. One person views murder as evil while another views it as good; same principle applies to all other opinions. There is no battle between "good and evil", there are just opposing forces in the universe that wish to destroy their enemies and fulfill their own agendas. That's it!

reply to post by The Djin


I meant to put /believe

Originally posted by awake_and_aware
reply to post by something wicked

 

civilisations on three different exo planets

Do explain, i must have missed something.

Thanks,

A&A

With pleasure. Condemned said

"I'm sure there are other civilizations out there that have figured out that religion is BS. I'm also sure there are others that are at different stages of development. Example: Exoplanet 1 is in the stone age and conceptual belief systems are the primary contents of thought. Exoplanet 2 is in an age similar to ours and hasn't quite grasped the fact that evidence for religious beliefs is entirely absent everywhere. Exoplanet 3 is thousands of years ahead of us and is completely religion-free, along with many benefits from superior technologies and superior understandings of reality.

So yeah, if the opportunity ever arrives and it's worth it, go for it. I'll see you there."

That to me is belief without proof. As condemned has said, without evidence any belief is worth nothing so I asked for evidence of the civilisations she is sure are out there in different stages of development. Without proof/evidence of this, it is no more than a belief. Belief = faith, just seems a little hypocritical.

Condemned then says the the three versions of civilisation is an example, but she also said she is sure that such civilisations exist. That is again belief without evidence which to me equals faith. Condemned therefore is no different to the people that are the target of that persons scorn.

Originally posted by Condemned0625
reply to post by something wicked

 

I never claimed that those 3 particular hypothetical exoplanets existed. That scenario was an example. Did you even read it properly? The word 'Example' before the example is given should be a clear indication, but you must have missed it.

And you said you were sure such civilisations exist - did you miss that when you wrote it?

Re Condemned0625

You wrote:

["A god cannot create itself because it must exist in the first place to create itself, which is contradictory because there would be no need to create itself if it already exists, which suggests that this god was already created by someone or something else. Nobody knows exactly how the universe began, but it certainly does not require a god."]

Niiiiice, almost with estetic value.

Not that it will change any religionist mindset. The pseudo-science types love to point out, that causality breaks down outside creation (well, not in so many words, it's just majic)...

And then they re-introduce their own version of causality, because such a knowledge vacuum outside creation is too tempting for the missionary mind to be left alone.

Originally posted by The Djin
reply to post by something wicked

 

If you didn't know what the concept of an invisible man was, you wouldn't be in a position to accept of reject it with any degree of certainty.

One doesn't need any degree of certainty nor uncertainty do believe or not believe something, indeed faith is based upon uncertainty ie zero requirement of evidence.

If you have no degree of certainty you neither believe or disbelieve....... I'm sorry, you don't need to be a theologian to understand faith is based on certainty not uncertainty if you like it or not - it is belief without the need for proof, that is the central tenet of faith.

reply to post by Condemned0625


That is exactly what I believe! BTW "The Cosmic Conflict" is free so google and download it if you have not already. Thanks for the discussion.

reply to post by something wicked


No, it is not. I'm not going to explain the difference between "A god exists because this book says so!" and "Other civilizations must exist due to the fact that there are billions upon billions of other galaxies, each with billions of planetary systems." again. The evidence found on Mars is more than enough to support my reasonable analysis. If life can be found in this seemingly lifeless solar system, there must be much more available elsewhere. Even just a .01% chance of life in the universe (among billions of galaxies) still amounts to tens of thousands of other civilizations, at least. Just because you don't understand doesn't mean you get to claim that it's a "belief". Get your facts straight.

Re EarthCitizen07

You wrote:

["Good arguement but I don't necessarily believe in an infinite god and perhaps that is were the bible goes astray in assuming god is all-powerful and the creator of all. IGood arguement but I don't necessarily believe in an infinite god and perhaps that is were the bible goes astray in assuming god is all-powerful and the creator of all. I uphold the fringe belief of god in that he is general of intergallactic aliens fighting bad aliens commanded by satan. In other words its a galactic affair!
uphold the fringe belief of god in that he is general of intergallactic aliens fighting bad aliens commanded by satan. In other words its a galactic affair!"]

A kind of cosmic McCarthy'ism then? But how can you be sure, that you're siding with the good guys?

You relate to a cosmic scope, and let one confused and self-contradictory book be your manual on cosmic ethics.

And redemption doctrine then, where does that fit in?

Originally posted by awake_and_aware

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ermmm

That is up to you but if your too lazy or deadset in your beliefs then that is your problem...not mine!

What about this mods? I found that to be ill-mannered.

Thanks.

reply to post by something wicked


I already explained it in full detail. Your misunderstanding does not justify your accusations.

3 exoplanets scenario = Example. The example itself might not exist exactly the way I explained it, but the chance of it is quite high. I am sure we are not the only ones in the universe. It's not all about humans. This universe belongs to other people as well, so deal with it. There's no doubt in my mind that the ancient civilizations here on Earth were seeing extraterrestrial spacecrafts descend from space. Some descriptions are vague, some are quite clear and even include drawings of these beings, most of them being the grays (Coincidence? No.).

Originally posted by Condemned0625
A god cannot create itself because it must exist in the first place to create itself, which is contradictory because there would be no need to create itself if it already exists, which suggests that this god was already created by someone or something else. Nobody knows exactly how the universe began, but it certainly does not require a god.

How did that computer your using come into being? It did not always exist.

God exists.

God is omnipresent, God is everywhere.
God is omnipotent, God is all knowing and all powerful
God is Omnibenevolent, God is all loving.

Proofs:

God is Omnipresent - As God is everything it is the very fabric of this existence. It stretches out into the infinity that we have not yet discovered, and is compressed into the infinite microcosm of our being. As God is within us and without us we can never fully comprehend God because the observer cannot observe the itself.

God is Omnipotent - As God is all powerful everything moves according to his divine order. It is order for we can calculate the very movements of everything as we grow to understand them. This understanding comes from within us. It is God revealing himself to us. All things we create are but symbols whereby we can better understand the order of his creation. Through this order we learn to manipulate the creation to reveal the wonders contained within.

God is Omnibenevolent - From the very beginning of our existence we have been provided everything we need to survive. The planet was made plentiful and our bodies have been nourished and sustained by all that is here. Everything here has a benefit to us. When we desire more, we get more. When ever we see a need, from the unknown depths of our consciousness is issued forth the way to receive it. Everything we have is but a gift from God.

Man - is but a part of this existence, the most divine part, his finest creation. We have been created in God's image for we have within us the ability to perceive his creation, find the patterns which make it be, and manipulate it to better suit our purposes.

We are of the father (the universe, this existence, the creator, all, what ever)
We are the Son (Man, the species, his finest creation)
We are have the spirit within us (The divine spark that IS life)

All these things you may deny. If you do you have only deceived yourself. I am willing to help you get past your deception, but you must want to see.

I do not know who you are.

But...

I AM

Originally posted by Condemned0625
A god cannot create itself because it must exist in the first place to create itself, which is contradictory because there would be no need to create itself if it already exists, which suggests that this god was already created by someone or something else. Nobody knows exactly how the universe began, but it certainly does not require a god.

How did that computer your using come into being? It did not always exist.

God exists.

God is omnipresent, God is everywhere.
God is omnipotent, God is all knowing and all powerful
God is Omnibenevolent, God is all loving.

Proofs:

God is Omnipresent - As God is everything it is the very fabric of this existence. It stretches out into the infinity that we have not yet discovered, and is compressed into the infinite microcosm of our being. As God is within us and without us we can never fully comprehend God because the observer cannot observe itself.

God is Omnipotent - As God is all powerful everything moves according to his divine order. It is order for we can calculate the very movements of everything as we grow to understand them. This understanding comes from within us. It is God revealing himself to us. All things we create are but symbols whereby we can better understand the order of his creation. Through this order we learn to manipulate the creation to reveal the wonders contained within.

God is Omnibenevolent - From the very beginning of our existence we have been provided everything we need to survive. The planet was made plentiful and our bodies have been nourished and sustained by all that is here. Everything here has a benefit to us. When we desire more, we get more. When ever we see a need, from the unknown depths of our consciousness is issued forth the way to receive it. Everything we have is but a gift from God.

Man - is but a part of this existence, the most divine part, his finest creation. We have been created in God's image for we have within us the ability to perceive his creation, find the patterns which make it be, and manipulate it to better suit our purposes.

We are of the father (the universe, this existence, the creator, all, what ever)
We are the Son (Man, the species, his finest creation)
We are have the spirit within us (The divine spark that IS life)

All these things you may deny. If you do you have only deceived yourself. I am willing to help you get past your deception, but you must want to see.

I do not know who you are.

But...

I AM

reply to post by IAMIAM


My computer exists because it was designed by a human. I thought you left this thread, but now you're back trying to claim that I'm "deceived". You cannot prove that your god exists, yet you still try. Your explanation has no basis on evidence, it's not scientific and it violates logic. You've failed once again.

You are the one who is buying what the anti-scientific babble is selling. You are deceived.

Originally posted by Condemned0625
My computer exists because it was designed by a human. I thought you left this thread, but now you're back trying to claim that I'm "deceived". You cannot prove that your god exists, yet you still try. Your explanation has no basis on evidence, it's not scientific and it violates logic. You've failed once again.

Where did that thought come from?

Where did the idea come from?

Who created the thought?

reply to post by Condemned0625


I noticed in one of your posts that you debunked the existence of God by saying that since a god could not create himself then a god cannot exist. I hope you will agree that we live in a world of complex and orderly life-forms....these things undeniably point to the existence of intelligence. As i see it we only have 2 options either intelligence has always existed or it came into being. If intelligence on the level that we are able to concieve of came into being or always was then why can intelligence of a higher order not have done or been the same?