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What is with all the threads attacking atheism/atheists lately?

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posted on Feb, 3 2011 @ 02:15 PM
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reply to post by tiger5
 


We have no direct evidence that they had no theistic belief, but we also have no evidence to show that humans always had a theistic belief.

The most famous evidence for a tribal culture with no theistic belief is the Pirahãs. They're even famous for recently deconverting a missionary sent there. Source for this claim.

Now, I'm not 100% sure if there are more, but the fact that there is one culture with absolutely no conception of a deity is quite a lot.




posted on Feb, 3 2011 @ 02:16 PM
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reply to post by tiger5
 


And what about before that age?



posted on Feb, 3 2011 @ 02:17 PM
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Originally posted by Condemned0625
reply to post by something wicked
 


You know why I'm sure? Because it's mathematically impossible for other civilizations in the universe to not exist. I'm talking about real places (exoplanets) that are constantly being found by astronomers almost on a daily basis. Try counting all of the galaxies in the universe and then come back to me when you have a number and try to tell me that other civilizations don't exist. I don't need physical evidence for something that is much more possible and obvious than gods and angels.


Now you are making your own rules. It's improbable but not mathematically impossible for life (not civilisations) to exist elsewhere in the universe. I thought you were smarter than that. I presume you are referring to Drakes theory? Let's just explore that. It says life exists on Earth so it must exist on other planets - but even then that theory does not say life = civilisation. We have one planet we know life exists on - this one. We have no proof, yet, that it exists on others. Oh, and by the way, you are the one saying civilisations do exist, the burden of proof is on you, not me to say that's correct - ironic isn't it? Please give me evidence to back up your faith.

But hey, you have your beliefs and faiths with no proof or evidence to back them up, other people have theirs - cool, no need for debate then.



posted on Feb, 3 2011 @ 02:18 PM
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reply to post by tiger5
 



Your ancestors definately have religions by the end of the paleolithic. look it up. You cannot prove an unbroken line of belief hence your position seems fallacious.


Wrong, ancient man developed "organised" religion over time. Ancient man had little knowledge and often anthropomorphized what they didn't understand. They believed earthquakes and disease were punishment from "GOD" and volcanoes were "GOD's" themselves. Man has always created myth for what he does not understand, for the "unknown". If if God DOES exist, it's an assumption, faith is just remaining narrow-minded.
edit on 3/2/11 by awake_and_aware because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 3 2011 @ 02:20 PM
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reply to post by Chrisfishenstein
 



Originally posted by Chrisfishenstein
reply to post by madnessinmysoul
 


The reason why is being an atheist is a freaking joke



How?



If there is nothing to live for after life, what is the purpose of living??


First off, I'd like to point out that atheism says nothing about an afterlife. No deity is not no afterlife.

Whatever you make that purpose to be. And life gains more value that way. What's the purpose of living a finite life if you have infinite afterlife with an infinitely rewarding afterlife?



Nothing happens when you die, come on!!


Again, atheism means no deity, not no afterlife. The two are often found together, but they aren't necessary. Secondly, there's no evidence that I've ever seen that shows anything happens after you die beyond decay.



I hope you all are the first to burn up in flames in hell.


You know, I think this is possibly the first time anyone on ATS has ever told me they hope I go to hell? Seriously, I actually can't think of a situation where someone said they actively hope for it. I know others have said that I'm going to hell as a statement of their belief, but they've never expressed a desire for me to go to hell.



posted on Feb, 3 2011 @ 02:20 PM
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reply to post by awake_and_aware
 


Which also begs the question. If early man DID eventually develop a Paganistic belief.

Why then... Do Christians and Muslims hate Paganism so much?



posted on Feb, 3 2011 @ 02:21 PM
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Originally posted by mr-lizard

Originally posted by lowki

Originally posted by awake_and_aware
reply to post by lowki
 


The user i am replying to has stated in another thread that:-

"Atheists have no problems with making oaths to Satan"

Nonsense - we don't believe in deities.


Then why not sign on the dotted line?
It's all false anyhow,
test your faith in atheism.

If your atheist faith is strong, nothing will happen.


You do it first...

Test your belief in God.

Go on... If you truly believed in your God, you'd have no problem surrendering your soul to Satan.

I'm a Wiccan.

As far as I'm concerned it's just a variety of spiritual entities.
What happens to you is only what you expect to happen.
Your belief-systems guides the quantum-fog,
which is the substance of our experience.



posted on Feb, 3 2011 @ 02:21 PM
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reply to post by Chrisfishenstein
 


You mean the stupid bigoted lumberjack line? Yeah, because the jokes of a hack comedian are so much better than the works of Bertrand Russel. Hell, if you're going to cite a theist, at least cite a reasonable one.



posted on Feb, 3 2011 @ 02:22 PM
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reply to post by something wicked
 


I have seen way more proof of qi than I have of any god or gods...



posted on Feb, 3 2011 @ 02:23 PM
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Christian Voice

You wrote:

["There are more senses than sight and sound."]

Can you define, demonstrate and test these extra senses (needed for your theist claims), or are you just going to invent them along the road with the traditional christian method of starting with a predetermined answer and after-rationalizing convenient 'facts' to 'prove' this answer?

Quote: ["Faith is the belief in something you can't see or hear or smell. You just feel it."]

The commonly acknowledged senses are rather uniform in their subjective manifestations and can be quantified objectively.

Your 'feelings' are as NON-uniform as they can be, manifested subjectively (do you 'feel' just a general 'god' or 'gods', or do you 'feel' a specific 'god' like Jahveh, Woden, Zeus). Can this 'feeling' be related to any systematic methodology, which can verify your claim of it (I don't insist on hard science evidence, as I'm a social science person by education and accept 'soft' evidence, if it's sound).

Quote: ["So, friend, we have faith in God because to us we feel his persence everywhere. I see him when the wind blows through a tree, when a child is born, every morning I wake up and see the sun."]

Cute as your personal testimony is, it's still one mindset speaking. Other religionists would tell another story.

Quote: ["God said that Noah saved the animals so we as Christians believe and that's it."]

If you get doctrinal publicly, you must be prepared for reactions.

Quote: ["If you choose not to believe then don't, but don't hate us because we do."]

Can only speak for myself. Usually I don't hate people, just because I consider them dumb. But when a group starts in the direction of an active defense for or propagation of elitism, I sometimes get very grumpy. But you reap, as you sow. Civilized abstractions seldom leads to 'bashing', evangelical invasion is exposed to various forms of counter-measures and fortunately atheists (to my knowledge) haven't got an emergency plan for burning christians, but let executive authorities take care of trangressors of secular law.

Christians have the same options as everybody else.

edit on 3-2-2011 by bogomil because: typo



posted on Feb, 3 2011 @ 02:26 PM
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reply to post by something wicked
 


Improbable? That sounds like a belief of your own. You think it is improbable that other life exists among billions of other galaxies? I guess the Mars rover that found organic matter on Mars was just a lie, huh?

www.space.com...

They're just organic molecules, but that does NOT exclude the probability of life elsewhere. We're not exclusive in this universe. It's quite selfish of you to think that other civilizations are improbable.



posted on Feb, 3 2011 @ 02:28 PM
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Originally posted by NonKonphormist

Originally posted by something wicked

Originally posted by NonKonphormist

Originally posted by something wicked

Originally posted by The Djin
reply to post by lowki
 





Anyhow, you're focusing on only a small part of the spells I cast, a large bulk of my magic spells were dedicated to getting a perfect partner. And she is way better than expected, which was also defined.


Hey I'm all up for an online experiment, I've asked this of xtians many a time but get nothing but BS excuses (I got a book full), so how do you fancy casting a spell for me ?

I'll make it easy, you seem to be adept at the perfect woman thing and by sheer coincidence I could well be in the market for one and my budget won't stretch to a ticket to Thailand at the mo.

So you fancy having a crack then ?


Hi, just out of interest, why do some people on here use the phrase Xtian? Do you have a problem with someone named Chris? Surely you need to also remove the 't' also if you wish to indulge in such games?


What's the problem with Xtian?
You know what it refers to.
Then what's the problem?


The fact you responded as such means you haven't really got a clue have you? Have you followed this thread or just jumping in? The point was made by someone using the term was that the name Christ was not one they wished to use, hence Xtian. Christian minus Christ = ian, not tian. Is that not obvious to you? Are you really up this late?

Sheesh, adolescence ain't what it used to be, having an attitude just means you have an attitude.


It is more convenient to use an abbreviated form of the word, and that's all it is, a word.
I have no issue with the word christ, it's just quicker to type xtian, and it's a bonus that it gets your knickers in a twist.


Trust me, my knickers remain untwisted, I understand your point about shorthand, that doesn't match the position of others that have posted on this thread.



posted on Feb, 3 2011 @ 02:33 PM
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Originally posted by awake_and_aware
reply to post by tiger5
 



Your ancestors definately have religions by the end of the paleolithic. look it up. You cannot prove an unbroken line of belief hence your position seems fallacious.


Wrong, Man has always created myth for what he does not understand, for the "unknown". If if God DOES exist, it's an assumption, faith is just remaining narrow-minded.
edit on 3/2/11 by awake_and_aware because: (no reason given)


You need to read your own post a few times.

let me break it down for you and me. It may be a sceptic's trick to drive someone nuts.






ancient man developed "organised" religion over time.


Well Yes that is called "the bleeding obvious" I agree because the lacked KPIs they probably took their time!




Ancient man had little knowledge and often anthropomorphized what they didn't understand. They believed earthquakes and disease were punishment from "GOD" and volcanoes were "GOD's" themselves.


OK That I like you have further qualified your initial statement which Iagreed with. I completely agree with you and would call it animism.

So how come you cannot see that this was not atheism because they belived in GODS.

What are you trying to prove? Do know what you are trying to disprove? You cannot justify your allegation that I am wrong IMHO.



posted on Feb, 3 2011 @ 02:37 PM
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Originally posted by mr-lizard
reply to post by awake_and_aware
 


Which also begs the question. If early man DID eventually develop a Paganistic belief.

Why then... Do Christians and Muslims hate Paganism so much?



Because they are both experts and proponents of "The one right way". I just want to be left alone as a pagan. You guys should get into a stadium with plenty of blunt instruments and beat each other up. You are both as bad on each other.

Sadly life is not fair.



posted on Feb, 3 2011 @ 02:37 PM
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Originally posted by TKDRL
reply to post by something wicked
 


I have seen way more proof of qi than I have of any god or gods...


Please believe me, I'm open to any train of thought..... but please define the proof you believe you have seen please - really, I'm interested.



posted on Feb, 3 2011 @ 02:38 PM
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Originally posted by madnessinmysoul

And not a single scientific paper has proven psychic abilities, let alone a meta analysis of studies done.




Thanks for saying that. I can now comfortably disregard your opinions as those of just another uninformed armchair pseudo-skeptic. You have lost the last bit of credibility in my eyes...not that that should matter to you at all.

On the off chance that you want to do your own investigating some day instead of just listening to debunker rhetoric from the likes of Randi, here is a list of good books that I have read and can personally recommend.

Randi's Prize
Entangled Minds
Extraordinary Knowing
The End of Materialism
The Intention Experiment
Authors of the Impossible
Outside the Gates of Science
Introduction to Parapsychology
Parapsychology and the Skeptics
The Parapsychological Revolution
Varieties of Anomalous Experience


edit on 3-2-2011 by Student X because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 3 2011 @ 02:38 PM
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reply to post by ChocoTaco369
 



Originally posted by ChocoTaco369
In my experience, it's almost always the atheists attacking religion.


Anecdotes aren't evidence. I'd like to see some proof of this claim that controls for confirmation bias, personal prejudice, and sampling size.

Secondly, this is about lately and I've also pointed out that there is literally nothing to attack in atheism, as all those threads boil down to attacks on atheists as people. There is no set of 'atheist' beliefs, there is merely not believing in any deity. Religions, on the other hand, make a lot of claims.



Generally, the religious are far more tolerant outside of the extremists.


Evidence, please.



I'm far more likely to be lectured by your average atheist than your average religious person.


Well, that might make you a statistical anomaly for all we know.



I don't believe any religion is right or wrong. Most religions are right in their own way, it's the blind loyalty to a single book that's the issue. I personally dislike the personification of God.


I'm sorry, but considering the number of claims that most religions make, they're bound to be right about something. It'd be odd if they weren't right about something. But they aren't generally right taken as a whole set of beliefs unless you exclude quite a few of them.



However, I can't respect the shallow mind of an atheist.


I predict...4 straw man arguments. So tell me, what is this 'shallow mind' of atheists?



To honestly believe that not only is ALL life completely pointless, empty and random,


Hm..should I tally this as 3 or 1? I mean...eh...I'll go for 3.

Pointless: My life has a point, I just had to find it for myself. It wasn't given to me, I had to come up with it.
Empty: How is life empty? It's got so much going on in it!
Random: Only in the broadest definition of 'we have no idea what's going to happen next with absolute certainty'. I mean, there are certain things that are most certainly not random. If life was random then you could never make any plans. Life just throws you for a loop sometimes

Atheists do not necessarily have to believe that life is pointless, empty, or random.



but to have the ability to believe that the entire universe was created out of a random explosion that appeared from nowhere


Another 2, we're at 5 now.

The Big Bang Theory isn't part of atheism, it's a part of science. Atheism is no gods, what does that have to do with the origin of the universe?

The Big Bang theory is not 'a random explosion that appeared from nowhere'. If you still think it is, I'd like you to cite an accepted scientific paper that actually says that.



- and to then say that a higher power cannot exist because you can't see it (and basically come out of nowhere) - is incredible hypocrisy.


Up to 6 now. I know of few atheists who say that a higher power cannot exist, most simply say that there isn't a good reason to believe in one.

I'd also like to point out that we have evidence of the Big Bang. A lot of it.



So the entire universe and creation of life can be created out of thin air, but a higher power can't create something out of thin air? WHAT?


I'll let these slide because they're a repetition...

The universe wasn't created out of thin air. Nobody is claiming it came from nothing. The thing is, there's no evidence of this higher power. Why should I accept your claim of a higher power creating everything when there is scientific evidence of an entirely different process?



The most annoying thing about atheism is the blind faith in science.


How can you have blind faith in a testable process that publishes all of its findings and keeps them open for anyone to access? How can you have blind faith when there is active encouragement to test the claims being made?

So this is straw man 7.



So, instead of putting your faith in a man in a white robe who preaches his interpretation out of a book, you...put your faith in a man in a white labcoat...who preaches his interpretation...out of a book...yea...so...I guess atheists are just like the very religious - blind faith in man's interpretation of events?


8. Scientists don't preach from books. They make inferences based on observations and tests. They put together further tests to make sure they're right. This process is repeated thousands and thousands of times each day, making sure that everything we know is right.

Once more, science tests its claims and you are open to test any of them. No faith needed.



IMO, a higher power clearly exists.


[citation needed]
Here's the thing, your opinion isn't a valid argument. In my opinion the Star Wars films are historical documents, doesn't means it's true...though I sure do wish it were.



That doesn't mean our interpretations are correct. To a cockroach, we're a higher power - an omnipotent God. I believe life is not random chance.


Again, you believe. So what? Where's your evidence that it isn't?



Call it what you will, but the morals instilled by religion and spirituality are priceless.


Yes, like the morals of cutting of a section of a child's penis that contains active nerve endings. Like the morals of slavery, mass rape, genocide, discrimination, misogyny, etc.

Morality does not come from religion. End of story. Anyone who has done even a cursory study of ethics can realize that morality can exist apart from religion and spirituality.



posted on Feb, 3 2011 @ 02:39 PM
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reply to post by tiger5
 


We are all atheists until someone tries to describe God or make a positive assertion that there is a God. Ancient man understood very little about the earth so attempted to personify it - It's called animism. (like you said)

Now we have knowledge, and where knowledge is abundant, faith seems to lack - Whether it be in modernised countries like Sweden or within a small sample group like the Scientific community, a majority is Atheist or non-believers of religion because they refuse to assume a creator without critical evidence.

We are all agnostic, some just choose to believe, it's called faith, and it's pressumptious animism of reality.

We are all born Atheists. No one understands language without aid, let alone the cause of the universe.
edit on 3/2/11 by awake_and_aware because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 3 2011 @ 02:40 PM
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Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
reply to post by Rustami
 

I'm sorry, but if you're going to be childish I'm responding childishly. Popular authors writing pro-atheism books is not the same thing as persecution. Hitchens, Harris, Dawkins, and Dennet have written books, so what?


bass ackwards again I see, hey how about instead of twisting things (childish?) why not address the original incorrect statement you were called out on? you know the "90+% of the world" one- maybe start with elementary level mathematics? here's what was written

"as one popular athiest has written plenty about especially concerning Christians (being persecuted)"

disregard my earlier statement made I'll go ahead provide linked answers


That isn't persecution. Persecution is when you're an atheist living in a rural Bible belt town and have to go to Church regularly and pretend to be devout in order to protect your livelihood.


well even though you misunderstood the original (imagine that) I'll go ahead and play for the rest of this post

have to eh? well stop being a pretender, move or stand up 'like a man' they say maybe even do a little study on what you very obviously ill percieve while making many misundertood bogus claims against the same

the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet-Acts7

it was for freedom sake Christ came-Rom8,1Cor7,8,10,13,2Cor3

God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.-John3

Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand. One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.-Romans14


I would like to see your examples of atheists persecuting Christians, please provide them.


you're not kidding either is the funny part, here's a few

I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God-Rev20

you will be hated of all nations for my name's sake.-Matt24

the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.-Acts11

Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.-Gen5

There is neither Jew nor Greek, bond nor free, male nor female: all are one in Christ Jesus.-Gal3


Bolsheviks Murdered
66+ Million In Russia www.rense.com...



After the Revolution of 1917, the Bolsheviks undertook a massive program to remove the influence of the Russian Orthodox Church from the government and Russian society, and to make the state atheist.. 1920 Bolsheviks legalized abortion




Taken all together, we have 401 million deaths over nearly 2000 years of war and barbarism. Just for the sake of argument, let’s add another 10%, or 40 million, to cover margins of error, and other wars. This would bring our total to 441 million deaths over the last 20 centuries.

Now, what about abortion? At the low end of the Guttmacher scale, even if we ignore all abortions done prior to 1980 when accurate numbers are a little more difficult to ascertain, abortion accounts for more than twice the number of deaths by war! In just the last 25 years, the ghastly toll for abortion has totaled over 900 million dead babies. Taking the more probable mean average, the toll rises to well over 1 billion babies; or nearly three times the amount of deaths due to war.www.covenantnews.com...



40 million, Mao Zedong



It is also worth noting the suicide rate among women in China is the highest in the world. Indeed, 56 percent of all female suicides occur in China, mostly among young rural women. It is also the only country where more women die from suicide than men. For women under 45, the suicide rate is twice as high as that of Chinese men. Government officials are reported to be at a loss for an explanation. www.afterabortion.org...



5th August 2006
CHRISTIANS – THE MOST PERSECUTED PEOPLE GROUP ON EARTH
By Anthony Browne, Europe correspondent of the Times.

There are now more than 300 million Christians who are either threatened with violence or legally discriminated against simply because of their faith – more than any other religion. Christians are no longer, as far as I am aware, thrown to the lions. But from China, North Korea and Malaysia, through India, Pakistan and Sri Lanka to Egypt, Saudi Arabia and Turkey, they are subjected to legalised discrimination, violence, imprisonment, relocation and forced conversion. Even in supposedly Christian Europe, Christianity has become the most mocked religion, its followers treated with public suspicion and derision.

I am no Christian, but rather a godless atheist.. but I do believe that all persecution is wrong. The trouble is that the trendies who normally champion human rights seem to think persecution is fine, so long as it’s only against Christians. While Muslims openly help other Muslims, Christians helping Christians has become as taboo as jingoistic nationalism.

On the face of it, the idea of Christians facing serious persecution seems as far-fetched as a carpenter saving humanity. jmm.aaa.net.au...


at the same time I do realize it was religious zealots in cahoots with some others that murdered Christ and many answers are given in the scripts for that as well

They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service.-John16




edit on 3-2-2011 by Rustami because: (no reason given)

edit on 3-2-2011 by Rustami because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 3 2011 @ 02:40 PM
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Originally posted by Condemned0625
reply to post by something wicked
 


Improbable? That sounds like a belief of your own. You think it is improbable that other life exists among billions of other galaxies? I guess the Mars rover that found organic matter on Mars was just a lie, huh?

www.space.com...

They're just organic molecules, but that does NOT exclude the probability of life elsewhere. We're not exclusive in this universe. It's quite selfish of you to think that other civilizations are improbable.


You said civilisation, please stick to the comments you made. It's improbable until facts prove otherwise because as of yet we have no proof - sheesh, I'm almost using the words you used earlier in this thread to deny other peoples beliefs!

Back to my point - no proof, no evidence of other civilisations but you believe - well done, I'm not criticising you, but it's a belief, a faith, no more and no less at this point.
edit on 3-2-2011 by something wicked because: (no reason given)



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