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What is with all the threads attacking atheism/atheists lately?

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posted on Feb, 3 2011 @ 01:42 AM

Originally posted by Condemned0625
It's beyond absurd.

Then we must be getting SOMEWHERE, and that's probably a good a time as any to say good night.

Punching out the time card

"G'night Sam"

"Night Ralph"

posted on Feb, 3 2011 @ 01:43 AM
reply to post by Student X

Nope. I started thinking about something else entirely different soon after I asked you to "read" my mind. Nice try though. Even if you were correct, it doesn't qualify as mind reading. Maybe you should practice more and sharpen your skills a bit. Maybe you'll catch me fantasizing about an erotic mystic club when you "read my mind"! Thanks for adding some comedy into the mix.

posted on Feb, 3 2011 @ 01:47 AM
reply to post by Student X

Disbelief is a flawed belief? You're the one who believes in mysticism, not me. Rejection is not acceptance of something else. Your assertion that my disbelief is a "flawed belief" is actually a flawed belief of itself. I'll pack your English supplies for you if I have to. You're going to be late.

posted on Feb, 3 2011 @ 01:47 AM

Originally posted by LazerTron
reply to post by lowki

Let me get this straight...
You got on welfare, then disability, and a social worker helped you...and you never applied for these things???

it was practically forced onto me.

This apartment that you never put your name on a list for subsidized housing??

The housing people showed up at my temporary place of residence,
unfortunately it was 2 days after I had to move out from there.
I had been hesitant as in the temporary place,
there was far too much intrusion for my comfort.

later my other social worker convinced me,
that this subsidized housing was really a good thing,
so I let her apply for me, as soon as she open the website,
there happened to be a vacancy in North York, my preferred area.

I will say this...if no one ever filled out any welfare forms for you,

Well I'm assuming someone did.
I was instructed to call them,
and had to show my ID.

and magically you started getting welfare check...then you may have some evidence there...but I am willing to bet that, along with prayers, you or someone else filled out the proper paperwork to get it to happen.

of course silly,
otherwise it wouldn't be legitimate.

Your example is a magical miracle that happens for millions of people who never bothered with the spell...

really? I doubt it,
cause I don't know anyone else in my particular situation.

As soon as I got my apartment,
all the "disability symptoms" magically evaporated. lol

the spell part is rather useless.

you're just talking about yourself.
we do to you, what you do to we. ;-)

The vast majority of friends my age, live with their parents,
The few that live elsewhere are wage-slaves.

Anyhow, you're focusing on only a small part of the spells I cast,
a large bulk of my magic spells were dedicated to getting a perfect partner.
And she is way better than expected, which was also defined.

Skin, hair, eyes, genes, parents, education, personality, diet, social situation.
Honestly, absolutely everything I thought of I defined,
and she is all those things and many more.
edit on 3/2/11 by lowki because: partner

edit on 3/2/11 by lowki because: the few

I got apartment 2 years back in september,
my girlfriend was first to show up to my birthday party in november,
and she moved in with me at apartment that december.

you know what,
I'm gonna go cuddle :-)
edit on 3/2/11 by lowki because: cuddle

posted on Feb, 3 2011 @ 01:51 AM

Originally posted by Student X

Originally posted by Annee
still don't believe in a deity.

Whats a deity?

Wrong timing to try and be cute.

edit on 3-2-2011 by Annee because: quotes

posted on Feb, 3 2011 @ 01:57 AM

Originally posted by Condemned0625
reply to post by Student X

Disbelief is a flawed belief? You're the one who believes in mysticism, not me. Rejection is not acceptance of something else. Your assertion that my disbelief is a "flawed belief" is actually a flawed belief of itself. I'll pack your English supplies for you if I have to. You're going to be late.

Well there is your first flawed belief. Mysticism is not something you believe in, its something you do. I don't believe in it...I DO IT. Its like looking through a telescope. You just do it. In fact, thats the analogy Sam Harris uses:

"To judge the empirical claims of contemplatives, you have to build your own telescope. Judging their metaphysical claims is another matter: many of these can be dismissed as bad science or bad philosophy by merely thinking about them. But to judge whether certain experiences are possible—and if possible, desirable—we have to be able to use our attention in the requisite ways. We have to be able to break our identification with discursive thought, if only for a few moments. This can take a tremendous amount of work. And it is not work that our culture knows much about.

One problem with atheism as a category of thought, is that it seems more or less synonymous with not being interested in what someone like the Buddha or Jesus may have actually experienced. In fact, many atheists reject such experiences out of hand, as either impossible, or if possible, not worth wanting. Another common mistake is to imagine that such experiences are necessarily equivalent to states of mind with which many of us are already familiar —the feeling of scientific awe, or ordinary states of aesthetic appreciation, artistic inspiration, etc.


So, apart from just commending these phenomena to your attention, I’d like to point out that, as atheists, our neglect of this area of human experience puts us at a rhetorical disadvantage. Because millions of people have had these experiences, and many millions more have had glimmers of them, and we, as atheists, ignore such phenomena, almost in principle, because of their religious associations—and yet these experiences often constitute the most important and transformative moments in a person’s life. Not recognizing that such experiences are possible or important can make us appear less wise even than our craziest religious opponents."
-Sam Harris

Now then sir or madam, you have already shown that you have no interest in mysticism so you neglect the whole area. To an expert like me, that makes you appear very foolish, and Sam would agree with me.

edit on 3-2-2011 by Student X because: (no reason given)

posted on Feb, 3 2011 @ 02:10 AM
reply to post by Student X

In order to do it, you need to believe in it. You need to believe that it works in order to do it, do you not?

To an expert like me, that makes you appear very foolish, and Sam would agree with me.

You're beyond foolish. Your ignorance of fallacies and facts makes you appear insanely foolish. Isn't Sam Harris the atheist who was siding with another skeptic, trying to challenge Deepak Chopra's New Age claims? That's right, there's an entire debate available on YouTube! Deepak meditates as well and believes in different aspects of spiritualism. Sounds sort of like mysticism. Are you sure your quote is from Sam Harris? Or are you just cherry-picking people who seemingly agree with you? Sounds like what christians do. Again, you're a joke and your argument is done.

posted on Feb, 3 2011 @ 02:52 AM
Where does paganism, mysticism, and all the other ism's come from. There is a trail to follow if you can find it.
First you have to humble yourself and admit to all your imperfections, than you need to have faith, next you can ask for truth.
But who do you go to to get this truth?

Here's a link that might help, but it's just a start or a beginning. There is a lot more to it than just this.
And I know they'll be those that will be nay sayers, but you can't please everybody all of the time.

edit on 3-2-2011 by hawaii50th because: (no reason given)

posted on Feb, 3 2011 @ 03:09 AM
reply to post by Rustami

did the voice in your head ask that without considering any situations that that thought may come up in? maybe you should start a thread about it if you're just attempting to go the crusade argument route, I suggest a little more in depth study starting with abortions (they exceed all wars in the last 2000 years from just 1920 by more than double) then maybe Bolshevik or Mao.. there are plenty more examples though

A simple yes or no will suffice

If the voice told you to kill me, would you do it yes or no ?

As questions go that's about as unambiguous as you can get, we can discuss abortions later if you wish.

posted on Feb, 3 2011 @ 03:12 AM

Originally posted by Blue Shift
This kind of thing comes and goes in waves. Next week somebody will come on and post some topic claiming to "prove" Christianity to be a sham or something, as if that was a huge challenge to attack a belief. Of course belief doesn't have proof. That's why they call it a belief.

In either case, it's just a result of people feeling insecure about their own beliefs, and wanting some kind of affirmation from the other "side." It's all pretty pointless, really. Most people decide on their own to seek out and question what they believe, and are rarely swayed by direct arguments against them.

Atheists can't prove a negative. Religious people can't prove or even define "God." So it's all just entertainment.

I completely agree. If you are completely secure in your beliefs and faith, then you wouldn't need to get defensive when someone attacks your views - you simply remain calm and correct misunderstandings, then move on.

The act of trying to "disprove" someone's BELIEF is rooted in a deep insecurity of your own worldview. If atheists are so convinced that God (or gods) doesn't exist, then why try to condescendingly "disprove" something that can never be satisfyingly PROVEN?

posted on Feb, 3 2011 @ 03:16 AM
reply to post by lowki

Anyhow, you're focusing on only a small part of the spells I cast, a large bulk of my magic spells were dedicated to getting a perfect partner. And she is way better than expected, which was also defined.

Hey I'm all up for an online experiment, I've asked this of xtians many a time but get nothing but BS excuses (I got a book full), so how do you fancy casting a spell for me ?

I'll make it easy, you seem to be adept at the perfect woman thing and by sheer coincidence I could well be in the market for one and my budget won't stretch to a ticket to Thailand at the mo.

So you fancy having a crack then ?

posted on Feb, 3 2011 @ 03:37 AM
Its funny you bring this up.

I recently approached a friend who is a fully devoted Christian to discuss what he believes and determine the way he looks at other faiths, beliefs and stances.

I gathered the following:

He firmly believes that Islam is 100% wrong, a lie and that the Muslim people are agents of the devil.
He believes that not everyone is entitled to a view, but he does not hate them, he simply believes they are wrong.
He says the earth was created 6000 years ago regardless of modern technology measuring the life of our earth vastly past 6000 years.
He says carbon dating, fossil records and methods used to determine the age of the universe are wrong, he gathered this from Christian teachers and Christian 'science' sources.
He says evolution is completely wrong, he even claims that on his death bed, Charles Darwin stated that his idea of Evolution was absurd and completely wrong.
God is a he, not a she and not a non-gender being.

posted on Feb, 3 2011 @ 05:18 AM
reply to post by imjustlikeyou

Originally posted by imjustlikeyou
A thread about "Christians attacking Atheists Beliefs" which is actually filled with posts from Atheists attacking Christians !!!!!!! < L O L

I'm sorry, but I'm not talking about atheist 'beliefs'...for one thing, it's a single absence of belief. Singular. No god(s).

I'm concerned with the whole threads dedicated to attacking atheist individuals. If you want to critique atheism, do so in the only rational way: prove your theistic claims.

Things I have noticed in the last few years > >

Subjective anecdotes, probably ignorant, ahead.

Is it just me or is Atheism starting to attract all the dumb ones because it is trendy.
Real Atheists must cringe at some of the crap that is posted here by so called Atheists.

Atheism is becoming more popular, the more popular you get the more diversity. Diversity includes dumb people. And it's really not all that trendy when people have to stay in the closet about it for fear of losing their jobs in 'at-will' employment areas...

Atheists only attack Christians because they are a soft target.
You don't see them attacking the Muslims faith with as much zest, why is that ?.

I've addressed this many times before. Most atheists target Christianity because it is the primary religious practice in their area. I am equally critical of Islam, but I hardly know any Muslims and we hardly see any on ATS.

Atheists will quote The God Delusion to avoid thinking of their own arguments, while mocking Christians for quoting the Bible in the same way.

We only quote it when it makes a good point that is supported by either evidence or reason. We don't hold it as self-validating. Christians who quote the Bible to prove their points are using quotes that are unproven and lack evidence. And I don't think I've quoted the God Delusion in ages...

Just like Christians, many exhibit very serious cases of a persecution complex, believing that Secret Societies are trying to eradicate them.

Secret Societies? No, I know that institutions that are far from secret would love to see us gone. Evangelical groups, the Catholic church, Islamic organizations, Lutheran synods, etc...

Granted, their methods aren't genocidal, though they are oppressive. Hell, have you not heard how the Pope speaks about atheists and atheism?

They constantly quote Nietzsche's "God Is Dead". Never mind that he was talking about slave morality rather than the actual entity. (It looked cool on that shirt at Hot Topic.)

Speaking as someone who is currently studying philosophy...there are much better things for atheists to quote from Nietzsche (this study is actually why I'm making this my only post on ATS in the next 6-7 hours, feel lucky). Hell, the full quote is "God is dead and we have killed him" or something along that line depending on your translation. And where is the constant quoting of that? I think most atheists actually shy away from such declarations as sort of...over the top.

They will Often dwell on religion more than theists, why is that ?.

[citation needed]

Final note > >

Atheists are completely without morality and treat the rest of humanity like , whilst accusing theists of the same thing.

I'm sorry, but how does not believing in any deity lead to a completely absence of morality? Can I not follow Kant's categorical imperative as an atheist? Can I not have a utilitarian view of morality? I mean, I just provided two moral systems I can follow without deities...

And I've never seen an atheist accuse theists of being without morality, though I have accused them of treating people like fecal matter. Why? Because people treat each other like fecal matter, and it's wrong no matter what the reasons are. However, religious reasons for treating people like fecal matter are more abhorrent than most.

Lastly, where is the example of most atheists treating the rest of humanity like fecal matter? I mean, I'm sure some do it, but where is the evidence that it's any significant number of us?

When called out on this, they will invariably justify their self-serving behavior by crying about religious persecution.

No, when I'm called out on being completely without morality and treating humanity like fecal matter, I respond with a rational answering because you made a completely baseless and stupid remark.

posted on Feb, 3 2011 @ 05:23 AM
reply to post by Rustami

NUH-UH! You have homework to do!

I'm sorry, but if you're going to be childish I'm responding childishly. Popular authors writing pro-atheism books is not the same thing as persecution. Hitchens, Harris, Dawkins, and Dennet have written books, so what? That isn't persecution. Persecution is when you're an atheist living in a rural Bible belt town and have to go to Church regularly and pretend to be devout in order to protect your livelihood.

I would like to see your examples of atheists persecuting Christians, please provide them.

(Edit: I know I said before I was only making one post, but I'm making a couple more to the easier to respond to things just to clear my head a bit from all this German philosophical thought)
edit on 3/2/11 by madnessinmysoul because: Noted in text.

posted on Feb, 3 2011 @ 05:26 AM
reply to post by The Revenant

Nope I am a skeptic. I do not believe in the Zionist involvment in 9/11. I also am skeptical of new age claims. I have collaborated with the author of the OP on explaining why evolution is correct. If I am ill I go to the Doctor first!

Your myopia is very evident becaue you blindly lumpall believers as the same. If Atheism is a wide range of thought around a small core of beliefs then at least have the common courtesy to acknowledge that believers have a similar wide belief!

posted on Feb, 3 2011 @ 05:27 AM
reply to post by Student X

No, you're thinking of rationalism and empiricism. I'm a rational empiricist or empirical rationalist...I don't know which would be more appropriate.

..and 'psychic potential' is a claim based in...well, let's just say Penn and Teller have a show that's titled what it is. There's no evidence to support it...

And lastly: What does not believing in a deity have to do with psychic potential anyway? Is believing in a deity a prerequisite for it?

posted on Feb, 3 2011 @ 05:30 AM

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
reply to post by _SilentAssassin_

I'm sorry, I refuse to accept any claim of any deity without evidence. As I've said many times before, as others greater than me have said before me, any claim made without evidence can be rejected without evidence.


I completely support your views! You practice free will. God bless ya!

Or is that very offensive. We can still attack the creationists

So why not leave others to do as they see fit. Let the netiquettte shine forth.

posted on Feb, 3 2011 @ 05:44 AM
You know half of this fighting would stop if people were a bit more considerate of other people's sensibilities. I have seen both obnoxious people who are atheists as well as those from xtianity.

Netiquette does matter.

posted on Feb, 3 2011 @ 05:49 AM
To all sceptics I can prove psychicism does happen. It would take a maximum of 18 months and you would have to take time of work as would I. you would have to pay my salary. If you are so desperate for proof take the time to do work as opposed to talking. Think of the time that you spend beating your heads doing all other activities like drinking beer and watching sports! I have seen many who got their effects within three weeks and were far too scare after that.

I bet I got no takers only because you all have comfy armchairs.

posted on Feb, 3 2011 @ 05:58 AM
reply to post by NewAgeMan

Ok, this is my last post for a while because it's going to be a long one...and I have an exam in about 4 hours.

Note just for clarity and because I care about keeping our forums clean: paragraphing. It helps people read your posts.

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
One thing is for certain, at least from my own POV. It's very tiring always defending the good name and infinitely intelligent spirit of Jesus Christ relative to the onslaught of attacks by atheism,

I'm sorry, but 'infinitely intelligent spirit'? The guy put forth ideas that were not infinitely intelligent. I mean, the thought = action idea was an espousing of what Orwell would later dub 'thought crime'.

Using Kant's categorical imperative standard I can think: If everyone was always looking at others with lust in their eye, would that be ok? Oh wait, NEWSFLASH, everyone does. There is nothing immoral about thought, only about action.

which conveniently employs a strawman God of the exoteric tradition,

I'm sorry, but you can't accuse people of making a straw man when the exoteric tradition of this deity is the majority opinion..sort of. In fact, you can't claim that we're using a straw man when there are so many damn versions of the idea. Now, if you object to how people are discussing the deity, make it known and we can have a discussion on your ideas.

in a concerted effort to make any and all Bible students and Christian believers, including gnostics (experiencial knowledge),

...le sigh. "Experiential knowledge" is epsitemologically weak. Do you know how I know experiential knowledge in this field is flawed? Meta analysis. Look at the overall body of experiential knowledge of God...and you'll find more than one of them.

or mystics, look like absolute morons duped by the mindless brainwashing of a bunch of "fairy tales" cloaked in an iron fist of domination and submission.

If you're saying that I think Isaac Newton was a complete moron, or that Robert T Bakker is a moron...then you're wrong. I honestly think that ignorance in certain area, a lack of intellectual honesty, and a refusal to apply logic to certain areas of life is responsible for a good portion of religious belief.

And what's even more disheartening is that when we do this work, in the hopes of setting the record straight, we have to do so while imagining the atheists giggling,

So you have to do something whilst imagining your own prejudicial views? Wow, it's good to know that you're a bigot.

in smug self-assurance thinking they've rendered the Bible and the ancient wisdom of all ages,

The Bible is not wisdom. Of course, we can address this elsewhere. I can prove that it is not wisdom. Genital mutilation, genocide, demonization of the menstrual cycle, commands of genocide, bizarre creation myths, acceptance of slavery, etc =/= wisdom.

...obviously I'm breaking this up because it's a massive sentence and I'm not writing walls of text.

as nothing but an antiquated security blanket

And can you prove it otherwise?

- a tattered heap of mere rubbish, on the ash heap of human history, as we presumably march forth into a new age, as mere things,

Mere things? I'm sorry, but you're acting as if all atheists must accept whatever philosophy you apply to them. I'll have to direct you to the mountain of philosophy that atheists have written on such subjects.

And you accuse us of straw man arguments?

or social animals at best,

Again, straw man.

imprisoned forever as subjective observers in a very constraining, and meaningless existence, and in a very harsh, cold, and entirely impersonal universe,

Well...philosophically there's debate over whether or not a human being can be an objective observer, but that's just another example of you applying a straw man to atheists.

Apparently not believing in god has all sorts of philosophical entanglements for you that aren't actually there.

And the universe is harsh. It's ~99.999999999999% uninhabitable (and that's assuming that every star has at least 1 Earth-like planet). It is cold, as there isn't that much heat in it per volume. It is impersonal, because it's a universe not a person.

Of course, does this make life meaningless? Hell no. You're equating atheism and nihilism. I'm sorry, but why do you have to tie these straw men to me just because I'm an atheist. How can life be meaningless when we managed to work out a way to survive in a mostly hostile environment? Life a greater gift when you realize that we've adapted ourselves to an incredibly harsh and hostile environment and are now able to observe the beauty and wonder of that harshness and hostility.

made of nothing but matter,

Well, that's over-simplifying physics much. Matter comes in so many damn forms that 'nothing but matter' is sort of a hilarious thing to say. Hell, just on the Newtonian atomic level there are ~3 forms of over a hundred elements (some elements are not present in all 3 forms...try getting solid hydrogen some time).

in a WYSIWIG (what you see is what you get) existence -

I'm sorry, but it's not what you see, it's what you measure, observe, test, repeat, etc....and that's not even a necessity of atheism. You're thinking materialism.

All this unnecessary baggage. I'll tell Benevolent Heretic that she apparently isn't an atheist because she isn't a materialist.

while calling US on this side of that fence of potential mutual understanding,

I'm sorry, but how are atheists opposed to mutual understanding?

all manner of things, from morons, to ignorant, misinformed, unscientific, the list goes on, and on and on, with unrelenting ferocity and all manner of prejoratives.

You are unscientific. Religion is inherently unscientific. If you're relying on experience, you aren't relying on science. How is that a pejorative? When I'm making a short film I'm being unscientific, I don't see this as an insult in any way.

You're not doing science, why do you care when people say you're being unscientific?

As for might very well be. If you're a creationist, you are ignorant. In fact, I'm guessing you're probably ignorant about something in your own theism. Why? Because it's a damn big field.

Also, pot kettle black much? I was just told that atheists cannot have morality. In this thread. You have personally labelled atheists with philosophical baggage that is in no way a logical consequence of atheism. I'd rather face pejoratives than have hypocrites like you attaching all sorts of unnecessary philosophical baggage to my claims.

I call you a hypocrite only because you've demonstrated hypocrisy, or did you not just cry foul about straw men?

So forgive me if I cannot help but be just a tiny bit elated, and even grateful, that, in the face of this onslaught, the truth remains, no longer buried, but to the contrary increasingly illuminated as a result of the debate and the conversation, left out in the open like a diamond in one's very own back yard.

What truth? That you're being a hypocrite? That you have no logical, rational, scientific, or any other sort of basis for your claims?

We as Christians, and as scientifically minded people,

You are not scientifically minded. If you were, you'd be doing science. Where's your scientific testing? Where's your controlled experimentation? Where is the double blinding? I have yet to see a religious individual who claims to be scientifically minded actually apply science to their belief.

Now, if you can please show me where you've applied science to religion, I'll be happy to insert my foot in my mouth after retracting my statement.

Meanwhile THEIR position OTOH is the easiest thing in the world - it's NOT FAIR!

I'm sorry, but how is being the least trusted group in America the easiest thing in the world? How is it the easiest thing in the world for me to live as an atheist in my own nation and still have to fear imprisonment for up to six months if I say anything that portrays the Catholic church in a negative light (it's up to 3 months for other religions)? I'm living in the friggin EU for crying out loud!

Sure, philosophically holding the logical position is the easiest thing in the world, but it's only easy because of how obvious the support for it is. Skepticism is the easiest thing when there's no proof of the claims you're skeptical of. On the other hand, being skeptical of heliocentrism would be a lot more difficult.

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