What is with all the threads attacking atheism/atheists lately?

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
reply to post by Christian Voice

 

Le sigh...

Agnostic: I don't know
Atheist: I don't believe in any deity.
Gnostic: I know
Theist: I believe in at least one deity.

Agnostic atheist: I do/can not know, I do not believe.
Gnostic atheist: I have (or think I have) definitive knowledge of the nonexistence of deities)
Agnostic theist: I do/can not know, I still believe
Gnostic theist: I know my deity or deities exist.

How can anyone prove or disprove a diety exists if we can't agree on what a deity constitutes?

What would constitute a deity in your opinion? What is supernatural in your opinion? What is hyperdimensional physics in your opinion?

You may not think the world is controlled by anyone or anything, but I beg to differ. I believe both good and bad forces are at work on this planet and we may have some freewill but not much.

Some things are hard to prove because we do not have the capability to fully understand them and because the forces at work may function on higher realms of existance; we know of four confirmed dimension(space which is 3-dimensional plus time) but scientists have spoken of up to 11 dimensions so if the majority of humans only comprehend 4 dimensions, how can we understand god/satan or any other deity that funcions on those higher dimensions?

Given this, should we believe in deities or should we not believe in dieties? The wind itself is hard to prove because you can ONLY FEEL ITS EFFECTS by touching and hearing it. You cannot smell or see it! People have five senses but some may have a sixth sense which is super-natural...super only because some people have that sense and not all!

Originally posted by Condemned0625
You can't "know" it just because you experienced something on a purely personal level. What about those near death experiences? Some are different than others. Some claim to see a light ("heaven"), some describe seeing absolutely nothing at all and others describe floating outside their bodies and looking at themselves. For all you "know", your experience could be explained very simply by a scientific investigation. Have you ever wondered why other people of other religions claim to experience their gods in the same way you supposedly do? You should approach this rationally, not immediately dismissing it and crawling back under your rock. It turns out that if you sincerely believe something, you'll likely "experience" it as your brain is further convinced that the illusions are real. That's called being delusional.

I am not here to convince you my friend. I am simply here to offer an olive branch and ask you to prepare. When you experience it, come back and explain it to me.

With Love,

Your Brother

reply to post by kallisti36

Originally posted by kallisti36
reply to post by madnessinmysoul

 

I'm totally going to ignore the persecution complex that would have been laughed out of a thousand chat rooms and internet threads if it was a theist (or more likely a Christian) making these claims.

Or they would get nearly 1000 posts.

Now, there's no persecution complex here. I was just remarking at the anomalous number of anti-atheist threads on here lately.

If you hadn't noticed the state of youtube and how if you type "Bible" into google you get "Bible contradiction" and "Evil Bible" within the first couple results, atheists have kind of had a monopoly over the internet.

That might be because the Bible is...well...full of contradictions. And parts of it are in fact quite evil. But how do we have a monopoly of the internet? I mean...it's a huge thing. There are plenty of places for Christians to go. There's Rapture Ready for crying out loud. The idea that atheists have a monopoly over the internet fails quite a bit when you realize the sheer volume of internet Christian evangelizing.

Hell, how many "Let's get 1 million people for Jesus to support ______ " groups are there on Facebook?

Try being an apologist on Youtube until that massive neck-bearded yeti, the amazing atheist makes a video consisting of swearing and personal attacks and gets a million likes from his idiot fans.

Wow, 2 1/2 personal attacks in a complaint about personal attacks! I happen to not like his channel because of his style.

YouTube has an outspoken atheist community. Deal with it.

The point I'm trying to make is that Atheists have been attacking Theists for a long time and that will naturally put them on the offensive.

Wow, you're going to put the atheists as the aggressors? What about Socrates? He was an atheist put to death for spreading atheism. What about anyone who was an atheist in the Middle Ages? What about being an atheist under McCarthyism?

I'm sorry, but we're not the ones who started this.

There aren't any secret meetings for either group as far as I know,

...that was a joke in reference to the amount of anti-atheist threads. Of course there wasn't a meeting.

they just constantly victimize each other by being jerks and morons. These are natural internet cycles, you were probably just inside when the gale changed directions.

The problem is that this has been more than a cycle, it's been a constant since I got back.

reply to post by The Sword

And Christians offer an arrogant, self-righteous view of the world

I would wager that someone that claims to be Christian that is arrogant and/or self-righteous in the way that the view the world/themselves is either not a true Christian or very, very immature in their faith and thus doesn't know very much about Christianity.

Someone that truly gets the Christian message doesn't have room to be arrogant and self-righteous.

reply to post by octotom


And here is a Christian being reasonable. A little information goes a long way. Thanks for teaching me something about Christianity's early history.

Why...does that mean it's a railroad Christing?!

reply to post by EarthCitizen07


11 dimensional spacetime isn't something that simple...nor is it something that's high consensus. In fact, there are varying ideas about the 'size' of those 11 dimensions. One prevailing idea is that 7 of the 11 dimensions are so hard to detect because they're so damn 'thin'.

Again, the axiom stands: That which is presented without evidence can be dismissed without it.

Originally posted by IAMIAM


I know this because I have experienced IT. There is no way for me to convince you.

I know you can't convince me nbased on subjective experience so I won't ask that. However, how do you explain the experiences of others who have had the same kind of subjective revelation, but claim different -sometimes opposite- qualities about this god?

reply to post by IAMIAM

I am not here to convince you my friend. I am simply here to offer an olive branch and ask you to prepare.

You're here to offer me something and you're asking me and a few others to prepare for it. What evidence do you base this on?

When you experience it, come back and explain it to me.

There will be no such thing. Don't assert when I will have this so-called experience unless you can prove without a doubt that it will happen. I was an xtian once and I was having the same "experiences", but later on as I read more of the worthless book, I realized how utterly absurd it is and came to the conclusion that I was deluding myself. After that, guess what happened. The delusions stopped! I was finally free from the grasp of a delusional concept and my intelligence exploded tenfold what it already was in a matter of months. Evidence is the key to truth and you are lacking it.

reply to post by something wicked


I still don't see how calling out people on their basic scientific illiteracy is bigoted. Creationists routinely demonstrate a lack of knowledge of science, from the man on the street to the guy in the front of the auditorium giving talks on the subject. Hell, Kent Hovind claims to have taught high school science for years and demonstrates less scientific knowledge than I had as a student in high school.

Sure, those accusations have been throw about by all sorts of people about all sorts of groups...but those groups are more groups than atheists. Atheists lack a single belief....we're not a group that congregates out of anything more than a need for defense.

As for why we (and particularly I) hang around religious forums: this sums it up nicely:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/0ef87a9d6e4b.png[/atsimg]

reply to post by madnessinmysoul

And here is a Christian being reasonable.

There are a few of us around and we poke our heads out from time to time.

A little information goes a long way.

Indeed, it does. I just wish that some of those that fulfill the Christian stereotype would learn this.

reply to post by NewAgeMan

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by madnessinmysoul

 

Which threads are you referring to?

As I said earlier:

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
In Religion, Faith, and Theology:

The Origin of Atheism (153 posts)
Atheism's Missionaries (194 posts)
A Question for Atheists (14 posts)
What are atheists thoughts on quantum mechanics? (83 posts)
The Disingenuousness of "Weak" Atheism (115 posts)
The truth about athiests (13 posts)
Atheism is a Cop-out (181 posts)
Are Atheist Arrogant (275 posts)
The arrogance of the atheists (182 posts)

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
Please forgive some of us for reacting, but on the whole the atheists around here have been totally "snarky" to believers, mystics and philosophers alike who have a conception of a God as supreme being, spirit of the universe whatever you want to call "it" or Him.

We snark, so what? It's part of our charm. And philosophers? I'm a philosophy student (well, it's my minor), and see no need for a conception of any deity. In fact, a great deal of philosophers have come to similar conclusions.

To repeat what I've repeated ad nauseum: Any claim that is made without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

Claims of believers and mystics are made without evidence, we dismiss them without evidence.

Try to look at it from our perspective, and recognize how much bashing goes on, and the assumptions which are made, and the bold-faced statements of "fact" which have no foundational basis such as "the sole purpose of all religion is to enslave the masses and coddle people in their fear of death" stuff like that, which is so ill informed and ignorant it's not funny.

But the thing is that some of those statements are made with actual arguments. Marx is the most famous person who made the argument about religion being used to sate the masses, and he had quite a damn good point. Now, if those sorts of statements are made without arguments...then they're stupid.

I'm sorry but I don't think it's the Christians or believers in God who are being highly uncivilized, and most certainly not any more so than the atheists, who, at times, can be ok, even playful, although for the most part, they come across as a very hard hearted lot, cold.

Well, continue with your popular prejudice against atheists then.

reply to post by octotom


They don't typically do a media blitz about it though. This is the first time I remember in my lifetime where religious groups were taking out billboards with a specific end of the world date on them or driving cars around with stickers proclaiming the same message.

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer
I know you can't convince me nbased on subjective experience so I won't ask that. However, how do you explain the experiences of others who have had the same kind of subjective revelation, but claim different -sometimes opposite- qualities about this god?

I cannot make claims about how others have tried to explain the unexplainable. All I can say is that they gave it their best shot. You will know yourself soon enough.

The days of following prophets are over. All will know soon enough. The days of uncertainty are coming to an end. Mankind for what ever reason is about to meet their maker. It has never left us, we just chose not to see it. It has been with us all along, practically begging us to look.

With Love,

Your Brother

Originally posted by IAMIAM
I cannot make claims about how others have tried to explain the unexplainable. All I can say is that they gave it their best shot. You will know yourself soon enough.

Are you explaining "the unexplainable"?
What will I know soon enough? Why?

The days of following prophets are over. All will know soon enough. The days of uncertainty are coming to an end. Mankind for what ever reason is about to meet their maker. It has never left us, we just chose not to see it. It has been with us all along, practically begging us to look.

You are now describing more qualities and events. Why should others believe what you're saying?

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
What about Socrates? He was an atheist put to death for spreading atheism.

No, not quite. If Plato's descriptions are accurate, Socrates was put to death for not worshipping the state gods of Greece and for being a general pain in the butt. If you reread Apology you'll see that he refutes the claim that he is an atheist, and it seems like the "pain in the butt" end of things was the real crime.

It is claimed by some (not by me) that Socrates was a monotheist, as he always refers to God in the singular, rather than plural, as would be typical at the time. But, by Plato's claims, at least, he did clearly attest to belief in a deity (just not the "right" one.)

I am a Christian theist and it makes no difference to me whether or not somebody else believes in a higher power.

What generally happens is Christians get defensive about their beliefs and start to doubt themselves so they have to go on the attack. A true believer has nothing to defend. All our beliefs are based on our life's experiences and what we have been taught. I don't blame somebody for their upbringing, education, etc. If they don't believe in anything, good for them. Personally, I believe it takes more of a leap of faith to believe that everything happened randomly than by a Creator.

Originally posted by Condemned0625
You're here to offer me something and you're asking me and a few others to prepare for it. What evidence do you base this on?

All I am offering is an olive branch of peace. If you do not want peace, if you are not willing to let the argument go for a time, if you are not willing to wait patiently, then continue on squabbling over things neither side can define.

I do not have evidence as I am not here to convince you. The convincing will come soon enough.Disregard the message if you find it so offensive. It will not change the outcome.

Originally posted by Condemned0625
There will be no such thing. Don't assert when I will have this so-called experience unless you can prove without a doubt that it will happen. I was an xtian once and I was having the same "experiences", but later on as I read more of the worthless book, I realized how utterly absurd it is and came to the conclusion that I was deluding myself. After that, guess what happened. The delusions stopped! I was finally free from the grasp of a delusional concept and my intelligence exploded tenfold what it already was in a matter of months. Evidence is the key to truth and you are lacking it.

I am not a wild boaster or a teller of tales my friend. I am not here to pump up your ego, to inflate your hope, or to tell you things I do not know to be the truth. I have never mislead anyone, I do not exaggerate, and I do not make claims that I do not know. I make the assertion because I have the authority to do so.

What you do with what I have said is not my concern, but as sure as the Sun rises in the East and sets in the west, that which governs the Universe WILL be made known to all and sooner than you can ever imagine.

People have been clamoring for God to come make his will known, he is delivering on his promise. Do what you will.

With Love,

Your Brother

reply to post by madnessinmysoul


That's true, I can't recall there being as much hoopla about this date either in a general sense. In Christian circles though, these dates can get fairly well known. For example, 1988 and 1994 were two big years that had rapture predictions in them. (The 1994 prediction was even made by the man that predicted this May 21 thing!)

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
reply to post by EarthCitizen07

 

11 dimensional spacetime isn't something that simple...nor is it something that's high consensus. In fact, there are varying ideas about the 'size' of those 11 dimensions. One prevailing idea is that 7 of the 11 dimensions are so hard to detect because they're so damn 'thin'.

Again, the axiom stands: That which is presented without evidence can be dismissed without it.

I edited my previous post so you might want to take a relook at it. In any case I will respond to this post----

If evidence of 11 dimensions was plenty and getting the proof was easy, then we would be able to play the role of dieties and we would have no reverence for them. Usually it is good to be "below the cut" if you cannot handle the repsonsibilities that come along with the title. Something to think about...........

I remember watching the movie "The Myst" by Stephen Speilberg and the so called Project Arrowhead where a strange myst developed and huge monsters appeared devouring everyone in their path. Can you imagine the awful possibilities that are possible if governments, via CERN and other scientific bodies, go down that dangerous path? And perhaps you should like into the Montaulk Project as I heard its real.....

Anyway I am not here to convince you of anything other than its lame to discount the possibility of dieites. I for one have little respect for modern day organised religions because I believe they have been infiltrated by roman paganism which imho has a lot to do with covert satanism. There was no reason to ban any "controversial" books along the way! People should have all material available to them so they can judge by themselves what they like and dislike. I actually have more respect for the old testament than the new testament without that meaning I am a jew or that judaism is pure...they have also banned books such as the book of enoch and the book of giants!

reply to post by IAMIAM

The days of following prophets are over. All will know soon enough. The days of uncertainty are coming to an end. Mankind for what ever reason is about to meet their maker. It has never left us, we just chose not to see it. It has been with us all along, practically begging us to look.

Prove it, proselytizer. Prove it.

Your belief system has not proven any of its claims at all. Thousands of years is plenty of time to prove something, yet the worthless pile of fiction you call "truth" has proven absolutely nothing. The same goes for every single other religious text (concerning supernatural claims). You continue to avoid particular questions regarding your belief and instead you're just stating the same nonsense over and over. Check out the book below.

Koran

If you don't believe it, you're going to islamic hell! Check this out as well: quod.lib.umich.edu...

That website asserts that there is evidence to prove the Koran's claims. What do you have to say about that? Looks like your bible is wrong. Actually, both are wrong because evidence is nonexistent on both sides. I was just making a point.