Are you riding Jesus or are you elevating him?

Are you riding Jesus or are you elevating him?

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Substitutionary atonement is thought of by many to be an immoral practice yet Christians embrace such a notion as moral and good.

Christians see God sending Jesus to be murdered as a good thing as it makes it possible for God to forgive man’s sins.
They tend to forget that the moral thing to do was to just forgive outright the same way he had done before sending Jesus.

This thinking says then that it is ok to use a scapegoat for our sins and not take responsibility for our own sins. That is why many think that we are saved by faith alone and not by deeds. Obviously a poor moral position.

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Who ultimately is responsible for your sins?
Should Jesus, as your hero, be carrying you and your responsibilities, or should you be carrying your hero?

Matthew 10:38
And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

Did Jesus do the immoral thing and try to offer himself as a scapegoat?

Regards
DL

Originally posted by Greatest I am
That is why many think that we are saved by faith alone and not by deeds. Obviously a poor moral position.

I do not think jesus dying meant that at all, and i am sick of people saying they can do anything and just say oh jesus died for our sins, so everything is ok, what rubbish. You still have to be responsible for your life and what you do.

How many murders do a policeman do, and then goto mass on sunday and say, all is forgiven. What a joke. I do not think jesus meant that at all.

Its a false logic, and remember the church pushed this logic on its followers.

I believe totally in jesus, and i know when i die i have not done anything, and i have lived a life mainly without sin, and i can say that truthfully, but what about the majority of people. I think its a joke that people can commit any crime and do what they want and they go, oh never mind jesus will save us.

I do not think it works like that.

with all due respect.

Jesus is God in flesh (John 1:1,14; Col. 2:9) and only God can satisfy the Law requirements of a perfect life and perfect sacrifice that cleanses us of our sins.


1 Tim. 2:5, "For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus."


Jesus became sin for us and bore our sins in His body on the cross, thus fulfilling the Law.
2 Cor. 5:21, "He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him."
1 Peter 2:24, "and He Himself bore our sins in His body on the cross, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness; for by His wounds you were healed."
Rom. 8:3-4, "For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, 4so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit."


God be with you my friend, and i hope you find enlightenment. God bless.

reply to post by andy1033


The gospel of John chapter 15 is where Jesus states perfectly the relationship of the Lord Jesus and God the Father . They are not the same entity although they are one in spirit .
When you call on the name of Jesus the Vine you are saved , but God the Father is the husbandman over the Vine will prune the branches ( commonly called suckers ) that do not bear fruit and cast them forth , they wither and men pick them up and cast them into the fire . The Father will weed out those that are not serious about Jesus .He doesn't recognise denominations only men's hearts .

Originally posted by andy1033

Originally posted by Greatest I am
That is why many think that we are saved by faith alone and not by deeds. Obviously a poor moral position.

I do not think jesus dying meant that at all, and i am sick of people saying they can do anything and just say oh jesus died for our sins, so everything is ok, what rubbish. You still have to be responsible for your life and what you do.

How many murders do a policeman do, and then goto mass on sunday and say, all is forgiven. What a joke. I do not think jesus meant that at all.

Its a false logic, and remember the church pushed this logic on its followers.

I believe totally in jesus, and i know when i die i have not done anything, and i have lived a life mainly without sin, and i can say that truthfully, but what about the majority of people. I think its a joke that people can commit any crime and do what they want and they go, oh never mind jesus will save us.

I do not think it works like that.

I agree.

No self respecting God would create such a poor system.

Regards
DL

Originally posted by Jophiel
with all due respect.

Jesus is God in flesh (John 1:1,14; Col. 2:9) and only God can satisfy the Law requirements of a perfect life and perfect sacrifice that cleanses us of our sins.


1 Tim. 2:5, "For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus."


Jesus became sin for us and bore our sins in His body on the cross, thus fulfilling the Law.
2 Cor. 5:21, "He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him."
1 Peter 2:24, "and He Himself bore our sins in His body on the cross, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness; for by His wounds you were healed."
Rom. 8:3-4, "For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, 4so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit."


God be with you my friend, and i hope you find enlightenment. God bless.

So God is now the medeator between man and God/himself. LOL.

Nice use of logic friend.

All fathers should then arrange to have their sons murdered and demand barbaric blood sacrifices.

Regards
DL

Originally posted by SimonPeter
reply to post by andy1033

 

The gospel of John chapter 15 is where Jesus states perfectly the relationship of the Lord Jesus and God the Father . They are not the same entity although they are one in spirit .
When you call on the name of Jesus the Vine you are saved , but God the Father is the husbandman over the Vine will prune the branches ( commonly called suckers ) that do not bear fruit and cast them forth , they wither and men pick them up and cast them into the fire . The Father will weed out those that are not serious about Jesus .He doesn't recognise denominations only men's hearts .

Thanks for showing how well you know the unknowable immutable unfathomable God.
His ways are not mysterious to you at all.

Regards
DL

reply to post by Greatest I am


Sound like I'm talking to IamIam from another blog topic . The bible is easy to understand if you have the wisdom given by God to understand it . If you intend to discredit it or give mysterious meanings to it you have lost the true content given .
God didn't consult me when he decided to sacrifice Jesus for our sins . I didn't make the rules I just adhere to them .

Originally posted by SimonPeter
reply to post by Greatest I am

 

Sound like I'm talking to IamIam from another blog topic . The bible is easy to understand if you have the wisdom given by God to understand it .

Really?

Who or what does the talking snake represent and why did God give it access to his brand new children?

Regards
DL

In the beginning, The Word was God
Existence by Word
Manifest Truth ~ Life created
God is Truth.

Absolute Truth; contrary is but lies
The Word became flesh
The liar thought he killed Truth!
Truth cannot die.

Men made in the image of Truth, twisted by lies
Both coming to and from men…
Who create and destroy with words
The plummet ever present.

Truth stifles lies.
No lies in the presence of Truth = life
Truth be known, lies expire.
Truth reigns.

reply to post by Greatest I am


In the grand scheme of things God put the tree of knowledge in the midst of the garden for a reason as well as the "talking snake " . In Gods plan the tree of knowledge was concerning the knowledge of good and evil and good and evil were both in the garden .God was not fooled about what was to happen . As for the quite simple way of explaining this to us , as man we knew nothing . We could not and still can not understand our creation or the wisdom of God . Why were we created ? From what was the world made and where does it exist in what we call space . Lets get to something that we could understand , how does a computer store and retrieve memory ? I don't know about you but I will take the layman's version over the highly incomparable version . If you read Genesis you will soon come upon the chapter dealing with Abraham being asked to sacrifice his only son . God had already planned the fall of man and the sacrifice of Jesus his only begotten son . Again I wasn't consulted about his plans . It's his game and he is the boss and you will play one way or the other .

reply to post by Greatest I am


Scripture says that Faith without works means nothing. You have to have both works and faith. We do take responibility for our sins by asking God forgiveness.

Old scripture tell us that the soul who sins is the is the soul who dies.

reply to post by Soke33


Thanks for ignoring the issue.

Regards
DL

Originally posted by SimonPeter
reply to post by Greatest I am

 

In the grand scheme of things God put the tree of knowledge in the midst of the garden for a reason as well as the "talking snake " . In Gods plan the tree of knowledge was concerning the knowledge of good and evil and good and evil were both in the garden .God was not fooled about what was to happen . As for the quite simple way of explaining this to us , as man we knew nothing . We could not and still can not understand our creation or the wisdom of God . Why were we created ? From what was the world made and where does it exist in what we call space . Lets get to something that we could understand , how does a computer store and retrieve memory ? I don't know about you but I will take the layman's version over the highly incomparable version . If you read Genesis you will soon come upon the chapter dealing with Abraham being asked to sacrifice his only son . God had already planned the fall of man and the sacrifice of Jesus his only begotten son . Again I wasn't consulted about his plans . It's his game and he is the boss and you will play one way or the other .

So much for free will eh.

Quite the perfect plan that has to include God having his son murdered instead of his just forgiving without condition the way we know he can.

Quite the S O B as compared to most men.

And we are supposed to follow that immoral construct. Never.

You go ahead and follow what is more like Satan than God.

Regards
DL

Originally posted by slymattb
reply to post by Greatest I am

 

Scripture says that Faith without works means nothing. You have to have both works and faith. We do take responibility for our sins by asking God forgiveness.

Old scripture tell us that the soul who sins is the is the soul who dies.

While in the same breath telling us that souls are immortal. Sigh.

"responsibility for our sins by asking God forgiveness"

Your responsibility is to the victim. Not some God who is beyond offence or some weak kneed sissy.

Regards
DL

reply to post by Greatest I am


You are not Christian . You have not read the bible . You don't have an idea what you are talking about . You should stick to watching Oparah . You have no part in the Blood of Jesus .

Originally posted by SimonPeter
reply to post by Greatest I am

 

You are not Christian . You have not read the bible . You don't have an idea what you are talking about . You should stick to watching Oparah . You have no part in the Blood of Jesus .

Thank God for that.

Regards
DL