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Hyper-Inflation Has Arrived

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posted on Feb, 3 2011 @ 06:25 PM
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reply to post by Leo Strauss
 


It has nothing to do with greed, your purchasing power is the same or better today than it was then. See my previous post and you will see. There is another argument about the attack on the middle class(which is happening but not on purpose), but that is not here. I'm sure there is another thread for that.
edit on 3-2-2011 by memarf1 because: (no reason given)




posted on Feb, 3 2011 @ 07:02 PM
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reply to post by crimvelvet
 


I know gold is a really popular fall back method and has a long history in banking, but it also has some problems. It is a commodity that fluctuates in price, open to manipulation through various scams and is better put into manufacturing than stuck in a bank vault. I just had an idea and what I propose is that money is based on people.

The only value in money is the value people put in it. The purpose of money is to balance supply and demand, when there is lots of people, lots of money is needed, when there is few people, a few bits of money is needed. I am not sure of the exact value to use per person, so lets just start with one million dollars. This means that a nation with 1000 people can produce one billion dollars and have that as its limit to allow economic trade. When someone dies, a million dollars is taken out of the system, when some one is born a million dollars is put back into the system. This will keep fluctuations within the economy stable with the population and allow all trade surrounding that individual to occur over their life. On average this with create a more stable economy, but some people will still be poor and others will be rich. System wide inflation and deflation will not happen, as long as the rules are enforced. Any thoughts?



posted on Feb, 3 2011 @ 09:18 PM
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reply to post by mnemeth1
 


mnenmeth did you read the thread I wrote recently?
The occurence of debt - or what I would do with $7 Trillion

I am pretty concerned about our economy as you can see. However I think we should try and fix this mess, instead of intentionally causing chaos, via a credit run.



posted on Feb, 3 2011 @ 09:39 PM
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Originally posted by mnemeth1

Originally posted by Dance4Life
reply to post by mnemeth1
 


lol

Currencies are only measured against other currencies. There has been very little dollar devaluation over the past 5-10 years in these terms. Everything else is speculation relating to commodities. If real inflation is here why isn't natural gas at 8 and still sitting inverse to all others? Supply / Demand etc. - 90% of commodities are speculation, just providing liquidity to wholesalers for hedging purposes.

You mean to tell me that after 2008-09 that we are heading for hyperinflation all of the sudden? Laughable.


LOL

So you believe that price rises across EVERY SINGLE COMMODITY SECTOR are due simply to speculators?

hahahahhahha

And yes, we are going to have hyper-inflation.

This is what happens when the Fed outright prints 600 billion dollars.




edit on 3-2-2011 by mnemeth1 because: (no reason given)


God, this is getting ridiculous.

Yes, it is absolutely speculation. I have news for you. Derivatives are almost now entirely driven by speculation. Do you really know what you are inferring? Why do you think volume keeps climbing yearly but companies like ConAgra / Hersheys / whomever are still hedging within a small percentage range of total volume for years?

With your reference you are basically stating that the market ( highly leveraged futures markets ) moves lock step with the real economy.

Absolutely everything is speculation when you are dealing with forward looking instruments.

This is from 2008 showing the growing ratios at that time even. speculators : commercial positions. I would like to see some real statistics on Crude and Natural Gas, although it isn't easily available.

Even though the answer is obvious, let me ask you this. I can't even believe I have to do this, logically you make absolutely no sense.

When in 2008-09 while the dollar was extremely strong were you calling for massive deflation when all commodities tanked? No, I am guessing you were calling for the market to fall apart and the earth to split open. But let's take one of your arguments from above, as illogical as it sounds:

"But the xxx commodity index is up xx% over the past 3 months". Well that is great and all but who cares? When the index was down the same percent if not much more during 2008 were you saying the opposite? Of course not because you do not understand anything about market equilibrium concepts and you certainly do not understand anything about leveraged futures contracts.

Btw, make sure and send me a PM the next time you got a hot tip from ZH stating that the sky is going to fall. I'll know when to add to my positions.

But in all seriousness, there is no chance the USA goes into hyperinflation.



posted on Feb, 3 2011 @ 09:39 PM
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Originally posted by ziggy1706
I work in a retail store in southwest CT. past week, ive noticed prices have gone up on most things, not all,...about 20-30 cents. In our store, disposable razors, priices dropped about 10 cents. dunno if it means anything.


They want people to take suicide?



posted on Feb, 4 2011 @ 03:10 AM
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reply to post by Dance4Life
 


From some reports of the Derivatives market, there is more money tied up their than in the rest of the world combined. I don't know how true this is, but it does suggest that this market is a big financial force and can make a big difference for how the economy goes. I am a noob when it comes to the workings of Wall Street, basically I see it as the worlds biggest casino with a small group of the central American banks holding the house. I see part of the GFC problem was due to this house going bust. The futures market does help some corporations plan their productions, but can also bring famines through hoardings. Like any power it can do good and bad. It is complex currently being the main demand for mathematicians. One problem I see with it is how this small central group, which where the biggest receivers of the bailout funds manages the pools in the derivatives market. Maybe I am wrong? but it is how I currently see it.



posted on Feb, 4 2011 @ 06:49 AM
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reply to post by Leo Strauss
 





To me the problem centers on greed vs sharing. The system is set up to encourage greed as the highest value and moral standard. Talk about lipstick on a pig!

This is a global war on labor or the "middle class" if you like. The middle class is a relatively recent phenomena in human history and something the elite fear. Greed is masked by words like ambition and competition. But the game is rigged and we are indoctrinated from an early age by sophisticated propaganda which blinds us to the game.


If you do any in-depth research you will find the actual problem is not "GREED" it is "FRAUD" You will also find that Capitalism is the scapegoat that takes the blame for the injustices caused by Fractional Reserve Banking!

You do not get rapid massive accumulation of wealth if you have to invest Real wealth that is wealth you created through your own labor.

When a bank can create fiat currency out of thin air and use that fake money to create a mortgage on YOUR land that is FRAUD! SEE: First National Bank of Montgomery vs. Daly (1969)

When a bank creates fiat money out of thin air and then lends it to an "Investor" who uses it for a hostile takeover of a healthy well run business and then tears it apart and ships it overseas. That is NOT capitalism that is THEFT!

What I am talking about is Leveraged Buyouts.


Leveraged buyouts involve an investor, financial sponsors or private equity firms making large acquisitions without committing all the capital required for the acquisition. To do this, a financial sponsor will raise acquisition debt which is ultimately secured upon the acquisition target... en.wikipedia.org...


In other words the investor is placing a mortgage on property he does not OWN!!!



If you want to know what the US government was doing about it...

...In January 1982, former US Secretary of the Treasury William Simon and a group of investors acquired Gibson Greetings, a producer of greeting cards, for $80 million, of which only $1 million was rumored to have been contributed by the investors. By mid-1983, just sixteen months after the original deal, Gibson completed a $290 million IPO and Simon made approximately $66 million.[9] The success of the Gibson Greetings investment attracted the attention of the wider media to the nascent boom in leveraged buyouts.[10] Between 1979 and 1989, it was estimated that there were over 2,000 leveraged buyouts valued in excess of $250 billion[11]
en.wikipedia.org...


The New York Times on January 29, 1989 summed up the situation very nicely.


....These days, corporations seem to exist for the investment bankers.... In fact, investment banks are replacing the publicly held industrial corporations as the largest and most powerful economic institutions in America.... THERE ARE SIGNS THAT A VICIOUS spiral has begun, as each corporate player seeks to improve its standard of living at the expense of another's. Corporate raiders transfer to themselves, and other shareholders, part of the income of employees by forcing the latter to agree to lower wages....



posted on Feb, 4 2011 @ 07:07 AM
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I have noticed the decrease in size of goods for some time now,like over 20 years.....

My garden is planted,I can get clams at night,I have a good bicycle with spares,a large bicycle trailer and a motorcycle that gets about 50mpg.

I have been downsizing for about 10 years,and am an inch from being homeless.

Freedom is so close if you remove your "Unnecessary Luxury Blinders".

I feel comfortable in saying that most have been living beyond their means for a very long time.

This is the result of our actions,what we do with what's left is what will determine the difference between those who are awake,and those that refuse to wake up and see things for what they really are.



posted on Feb, 4 2011 @ 07:39 AM
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reply to post by memarf1
 





It has nothing to do with greed, your purchasing power is the same or better today than it was then. See my previous post and you will see. There is another argument about the attack on the middle class(which is happening but not on purpose), but that is not here. I'm sure there is another thread for that.


SIGHhhh. I am afraid you are incorrect on several accounts.

Purchasing Power
The bankers stole our "Purchasing Power" or wealth through a combination of inflation of the price of goods and the deflation of wages.

From the beginning of 1964 to the end of 2010 the bankers have made $1961.967 billion dollars in fiat currency. That is the amount they increased the money supply ($2016.205 Billion minus $54.238 Billion)

Here is a money supply/gold/wage chart:
Date.....$ /oz gold.. Money supply......minimum wage...min wage in gold..CEO pay in gold
1971 ......40.62.............. 81 billion...........$1.60 ...................0.0394 oz.
1974 ......195.20...........101 billion...........$2.00.....................0.0102 oz.
1976 ......124.74 ........... $113 billion.......$2.30.....................0.0184 oz............0.663.oz
1985 .....354.20 ...........$205 billion........$3.35....................0.0094 oz.
1994 .....409.80........... $ 406 billion.......$4.25.....................0.0104.oz.
2006 .....636.30 ...........$808 billion........$5.15.....................0.0081 oz.
2008 .....880.30........... $831 billion........$5.85.....................0.0066 oz.............2.44.oz
2009...1,020.28...........$1663 billion........$6.55.....................0.0064.oz.


Let's see why that happened.


In 1976 A typical American CEO earned 36 times as much as the average worker. By 2008 the average CEO pay increased to 369 times that of the average worker. timelines.ws...


If you look at the table the typical American CEO is actually paid five times MORE in “buying power” compared to 1976 while the rest of us are now paid a third of what we were paid in 1976. The price of gold indicates the steady devaluation of the US dollar as its purchasing power is diluted by the ever increasing supply of fiat money.

At the same time our wages were devalued, the price of goods was inflated thanks to taxes and the increased money supply. Therefore we can no longer SAVE to buy things. All the excess "fat" from the economy has been siphoned off and placed in the bankers' pockets. We are now in a vicious cycle of more and more debt.




There is another argument about the attack on the middle class(which is happening but not on purpose)


I am afraid the attack WAS on purpose.
I have not finished the research, but according to one article the Leveraged buyout feeding frenzy that destroyed our industrial base was due to the government under Ronald Reagan not enforcing the anti-monopoly laws and the 1933 and 1934 Security and Exchange laws. This was all part of the plan by the bankers to "De-industrialize" the USA.

All you have to do is look at what has happened to our laws.

After the Great Depression, several laws were put in place to prevent another depression. The 1933 and 1934 Security and Exchange laws as I said I have not researched yet

The critical part of the scam was the Commodity Futures Modernization Act. This allowed CDSs to be placed on mortgages. If a bank has a couple of CDSs on your mortgage then the bank WANTS to force you into foreclosure See: How the AIG Bailout Could be Driving More Foreclosures


..because the CDSs were unregulated—and this is because of a specific law back in the year 2000 called the Commodity Futures Modernization Act, which was sponsored by Phil Gramm. These instruments were unregulated. They were designated outside the regulation of—they couldn’t be regulated as futures commodities or as gaming, so there were no rules about this. So you could sell as much CDS protection as you wanted, but you didn’t have to actually post any capital when you did it....

...a lot of these contracts, these CDS contracts, are like gambling, in the sense that—normally when you buy an insurance policy, you’re buying a policy on a house that you actually own. With these CDS contracts, you could actually bet on somebody else’s mortgage.... www.democracynow.org...


Here are the other laws that set up the AIG Bailout - Foreclosuregate:
(I rearranged the order and added comments)


Important Banking Legislation
The McFadden Act of 1927 or Amendment to the National Banking Laws and the Federal Reserve Act (P.L. 69-639, 44 STAT. 1224): Prohibited interstate banking.

[Clinton's Law: Negating above:]
Riegle-Neal Interstate Banking and Branching Efficiency Act of 1994 (P.L. 103-328, 108 STAT. 2338).
Permits bank holding companies to acquire banks in any state one year Beginning June 1, 1997, allows interstate mergers.

The Glass-Steagall Act or Banking Act of 1933 (P.L. 73-66, 48 STAT. 162): Separated commercial banking from investment banking, establishing them as separate lines of commerce.


Bank Holding Company Act of 1956 (P.L. 84-511, 70 STAT. 133): Prohibited bank holding companies headquartered in one state from acquiring a bank in another state.

[Clinton's Law: Negating both of the above laws:]
Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act of 1999 (P.L. 106-102, 113 STAT 1338)
(pdf version from Government Printing Office.)
Repeals last vestiges of the Glass Steagall Act of 1933. Modifies portions of the Bank Holding Company Act to allow affiliations between banks and insurance underwriters. Law creates a new financial holding company authorized to engage in: underwriting and selling insurance and securities, conducting both commercial and merchant banking, investing in and developing real estate and other "complimentary activities."
Allows national banks to underwrite municipal bonds.
Amends the Community Reinvestment Act to require that financial holding companies can not be formed before their insured depository institutions receive and maintain a satisfactory CRA rating.
Makes significant changes in the operation of the Federal Home Loan Bank System, easing membership requirements and loosening restrictions on the use of FHLB funds.


[MORE on The Clinton Years:]
Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation Improvement Act of 1991 (P.L. 102-242, 105 STAT. 2236).
Also known as FDICIA. FDICIA greatly increased the powers and authority of the FDIC. Major provisions recapitalized the Bank Insurance Fund and allowed the FDIC to strengthen the fund by borrowing from the Treasury.
The act mandated a least-cost resolution method and prompt resolution approach to problem and failing banks and ordered the creation of a risk-based deposit insurance assessment scheme. Brokered deposits and the solicitation of deposits were restricted, as were the non-bank activities of insured state banks. FDICIA created new supervisory and regulatory examination standards and put forth new capital requirements for banks. It also expanded prohibitions against insider activities and created new Truth in Savings provisions.
[TRANSLATION: Allowed big banks to gobble up smaller banks more easily.]

Housing and Community Development Act of 1992 (P.L. 102-550, 106 STAT. 3672).

RTC Completion Act (P.L. 103-204, 107 STAT. 2369):
implement provisions designed to improve the agency's record in providing business opportunities to minorities and women.. Expands the existing affordable housing programs of the RTC and the FDIC by broadening the potential affordable housing stock of the two agencies.
Increases the statute of limitations on RTC civil lawsuits. In cases in which the statute of limitations has expired, claims can be revived for fraud and intentional misconduct resulting in unjust enrichment or substantial loss to the thrift.




posted on Feb, 4 2011 @ 08:27 AM
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You guys think you have it bad? You should see the kinds of prices we have up here in Canada,
Quebec is a producer of milk, you'll end up paying 4.50$ for a carton of 2 liters.
Things are indeed expensive, and the government takes more money than your own, mainly because we're socialist in nature. Not much to brag about, we have one doctor per hospital, some people end up waiting 3 days in the ER. There's horror stories of people dying in the waiting rooms. There's a reason the chairs are bolted to the floor, security is 5 feet away and the receptionist offices are covered in hardened glass.

I'm surprised people don't revolt because of the health care issue itself.

Our homeless shelters are overcrowded, there's no jobs, and the media keeps reporting the news like nothing's going on, even though Montreal has some of the worst arson related crimes since I can remember, houndreds of stores got torched, they blame gang warfare, I also assume that gang warfare explains the many cars and households that are being broken into as well hmmm? Not to mention cops cruise facebook in search of the next guy who displays anarchy like sentiments, I heard just yesterday about a guy who got arrested for death threats against police simply because he quoted a song on his facebook page. Not ridiculous? The police don't discriminate, they'll arrest you for none sense no matter what color you are. They figure that our "fair and balanced" justice system will sort things out. People get thrown in nut houses after they get arrested, the arrests are baseless and usually there is no crime committed. All it takes is a 5 minute evaluation by a self proclaimed psychologist, you'll see one before you see your lawyer. All this in the name of crime prevention. If you have a government appointed lawyer, forget about winning your case. You end up with a criminal record even if there's no proof against you. Pardon fees have climbed to 635$, how is anyone supposed to afford that when they can't even get a minimum wage job because of the said criminal record?

Like I said, I'm astounded that there's not even one protest about all this, well, beyond the yearly march against police brutality that usually ends in... police brutality...



posted on Feb, 4 2011 @ 08:56 AM
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reply to post by kwakakev
 





I know gold is a really popular fall back method and has a long history in banking, but it also has some problems. It is a commodity that fluctuates in price, open to manipulation through various scams and is better put into manufacturing than stuck in a bank vault. I just had an idea and what I propose is that money is based on people.

The only value in money is the value people put in it. The purpose of money is to balance supply and demand, when there is lots of people, lots of money is needed, when there is few people, a few bits of money is needed....


I think you are confused about what money is and what its role in society is.

What is Money?
Money is the tool of exchange. It is the logical refinement of the barter system. Money is used by people as the easiest means of trading value for value. Money has been shells, wampum, obsidian arrows, brass, gold, silver, copper and now paper certificates.

Money, especially those pieces of paper, is a token of honor. When you go to work you accept money in payment for your effort or products whether you are an employee selling labor or the business owner selling a product or service. All civilized people do so only on the conviction that this token of honor can be exchange for the product of the effort of others.

Bankers short circuit the system because the "money" they create is created out of nothing. In the exchange of value for value, they cheat the system by exchanging value for debt and use trickery to conceal this theft.


WHY GOLD?
Gold has been the agreed upon exchange material for thousands of years because it has the characteristics needed. First it is durable and second it is relatively scare but there is enough to make it useful. It's major drawback is that it is heavy.

Mises explains why the current system of an ever increasing money supply is so unfair and just plain WRONG.



NO NEW MONEY IS REQUIRED



"As the operation of the market tends to determine the final state of money's purchasing power at the height at which the supply of and the demand for money coincide, there can never be an excess or deficiency of money. Each individual and all individuals together always enjoy fully the advantages which they can derive from indirect exchange and the use of money, no matter whether the total quantity of money is great or small." The conclusion is obvious, and he makes it: "The quantity of money available in the whole economy is always sufficient to secure for everybody all that money does and can do" (p. 421).


[WHY FIAT CURRENCY IS THEFT]


New money does not appear magically in equal percentages in all people's bank accounts or under their mattresses. Money spreads unevenly, and this process has varying effects on individuals, depending on whether they receive early or late access to the new money

It is these losses of the groups that are the last to be reached by the variation in the value of money which ultimately constitute the source of the profits made by the mine owners and the groups most closely connected with them

This indicates a fundamental aspect of Mises's monetary theory that is rarely mentioned: the expansion or contraction of money is a zero-sum game. Mises did not use this terminology, but he used the zero-sum concept. Because the free market always maximizes the utility of the existing money supply, changes in the money supply inescapably have the characteristic features of a zero-sum game. Some individuals are made better off by an increase in the money supply; others are made worse off. The existing money is an example of a "fixed pie of social value." Adding to the money supply does not add to its value.
Mises on Money: www.lewrockwell.com...


Do you understand that?
When the Bankers create money through debt to "increase the money supply" they STEAL the value of that money from the rest of us through the decrease in the purchasing power of our wages and the increase of the price of goods sold.


That is why no matter what is used for money the amount must remain fixed in a fair and lawful society.

This is why the author of this thread and I are predicting massive inflation.

The Money supply has been more than doubled, from $831 billion in 2008 to over $2000 billion in december 2010. This means the value of money now is effectively half of what it was in 2008. We are just waiting for the other shoe to drop.

Mises was correct. To fix the problems we need a fixed money supply AND we need to make bankers adhere to the same laws the rest of us do. Bankers are getting away with FRAUD on such a massive scale it has bankrupted this country and judges are afraid to enforce the law!


Don't believe banks create the money they lend? Neither did the jury in a landmark Minnesota case, until they heard the evidence. First National Bank of Montgomery vs. Daly (1969) was a courtroom drama worthy of a movie script.3 Defendant Jerome Daly opposed the bank's foreclosure on his $14,000 home mortgage loan on the ground that there was no consideration for the loan.

"Consideration" ("the thing exchanged") is an essential element of a contract. Daly, an attorney representing himself, argued that the bank had put up no real money for his loan. The courtroom proceedings were recorded by Associate Justice Bill Drexler, whose chief role, he said, was to keep order in a highly charged courtroom where the attorneys were threatening a fist fight. Drexler hadn't given much credence to the theory of the defense, until Mr. Morgan, the bank's president, took the stand. To everyone's surprise, Morgan admitted that the bank routinely created money "out of thin air" for its loans, and that this was standard banking practice. "It sounds like fraud to me," intoned Presiding Justice Martin Mahoney amid nods from the jurors. In his court memorandum, Justice Mahoney stated:


Plaintiff admitted that it, in combination with the Federal Reserve Bank of Minneapolis, . . . did create the entire $14,000.00 in money and credit upon its own books by bookkeeping entry. That this was the consideration used to support the Note dated May 8, 1964 and the Mortgage of the same date. The money and credit first came into existence when they created it. Mr. Morgan admitted that no United States Law or Statute existed which gave him the right to do this. A lawful consideration must exist and be tendered to support the Note.

Justice Mahoney, who was not dependent on campaign financing or hamstrung by precedent, went so far as to threaten to prosecute and expose the bank. He died less than six months after the trial, in a mysterious accident that appeared to involve poisoning.4

....Since that time, a number of defendants have attempted to avoid loan defaults using the defense Daly raised; but they have met with only limited success. As one judge said off the record:


If I let you do that – you and everyone else – it would bring the whole system down. . . . I cannot let you go behind the bar of the bank. . . . We are not going behind that curtain!5



www.webofdebt.com...



posted on Feb, 4 2011 @ 10:06 AM
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reply to post by mnemeth1
 


this is a really long winded rebuttal of any hyper-inflation hitting the USD.
it has to do with the monies printed by the FED to bail out banks & the money printed for the Treas. to bail out Freddy & Fannie, and the SocialSecurity tax reduction of 2%
is not being shoveled into the Economy and the creation of money velocity...the inflationary $$s are being mostly hoarded by the financial system.

the rising costs of foods & other commodities is more a result of futures bets than actual demand for the goods...although there is indeed a squeeze in the production of wheat and other grains because of adverse climate variations on certain crops...but mostly any 'shortages' are being engineered (IMHO)




If the Federal Reserve is determined to print its way out of this depression, why won’t hyperinflation occur in the U.S.?

First, with very rare exception, hyperinflation has been the worst economic consequence of destabilized (politically and/or economically) second and third world nations. While the U.S. certainly has a good deal of issues to resolve, it is very far from resembling a destabilized second or third world nation.

Second, in order to experience hyperinflation a nation must flood astronomical amounts of currency into the banking system rapidly and continuously. Conservatively, I would define hyperinflation as a long duration of increasing levels of inflation at 30% to 40% per month. Many others have defined it at higher levels.

Moreover, this flood of currency must be made widely available to consumers and businesses so that demand for goods is dwarfed by the available supply. As we know, despite the printing of currency over the past two years, very little has reached consumers and businesses. Finally, this demand must continue to increase each month at a very high rate.

Although U.S. banks have not provided credit to businesses and consumers in proportion to the amount that has been issued by the Federal Reserve, inflation has been increasing throughout the globe due various stimulus packages, the carry trade and other forms of speculation by banks and other financial institutions. But still, we do not even see any sign of massive inflation at this stage, although I feel it is very likely in the future


www.marketoracle.co.uk...





It goes on to say:


What is the definition of massive inflation?

It depends on who you ask and the nation under consideration. In my opinion, massive inflation would resemble what the U.S. faced in the late 1970s and early 1980s, which is not even in the same universe as hyperinflation. Alternatively, we could experience a more protracted but less severe period of inflation. Either way, hyperinflation in the U.S. is not a reasonable possibility in our life time.

Third, the Federal Reserve is able to print an excessive amount of currency without creating a proportionate increase in the inflation rate because of two factors. First, the U.S. runs trade deficits with much of the world. This is especially the case with Asia. This alone serves to export inflation out of the U.S. This dynamic is aided by the dollar-oil link. Second, China’s currency peg has actually diminished the chances of a hyperinflationary event in the U.S. While China will eventually lift this peg, it will be a gradual process. Even if both of these relationships were to change abruptly, they would not lead to hyperinflation.

Why?

The principal force making hyperinflation a virtual impossibility in the U.S. is the dollar-oil link. As a consequence of this link, it could be argued that the dollar is not exactly a true fiat currency. At the same time, the dollar is not backed by a finite asset directly under its possession, although the Saudis realize that any threat to decouple the dollar from oil sales would be met with very severe and immediate consequences. Therefore, the U.S. has a good deal of influence in maintaining this vital economic link.




i like the bottom line --- "Not In Our Lifetime"



posted on Feb, 4 2011 @ 02:10 PM
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reply to post by St Udio
 


Yeah, I don't really care how they spin it, they can't get around a few facts.

1. Brian Sack's interns are monetizing freshly minted bonds at an epic rate

2. The primary dealers are making epic billions off of flipping bonds.

3. The Bernank has doubled M2.

4. The Bernank has no way of drawing down the monetary base.

5. The oil-dollar link is being severed by a Russian/China/Iran deal to sell oil outside of the dollar.

6. The government is burning a tremendous of resources in unproductive activities

7. The commodities markets are all skyrocketing


Anyone that tries to sell me on a deflationary scenario has to demonstrate:

1. How the Bernank can draw down the monetary base without imploding the US government

2. How ZIRP4EVER will not ultimately result in insane inflation rates and how paying banks with tax dollars is a legitimate function of government

3. Why more nations will not begin trading oil outside of the dollar



posted on Feb, 4 2011 @ 02:17 PM
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Originally posted by crimvelvet
reply to post by Leo Strauss
 


If you do any in-depth research you will find the actual problem is not "GREED" it is "FRAUD" You will also find that Capitalism is the scapegoat that takes the blame for the injustices caused by Fractional Reserve Banking!

You do not get rapid massive accumulation of wealth if you have to invest Real wealth that is wealth you created through your own labor.



Don't underestimate the greed game in casino America. The conditions that brought this "inflation" about are directly and almost solely tied to commodities futures arbitrage speculations being played on the Chicago Mercantile Exchange of all these worldwide necessities, like wheat, corn, rice, cocoa, sugar, etc, as well as the US subsidies that categorically "prop up" the worldwide prices for them. It has been well documented for decades that this system causes worldwide food shortages, leading to massive worldwide hunger and deaths because of it.

There have been repeated calls to end if not curb the systematic speculative (betting spreads) of the Mercantile, and severely limit the subsidies, but to no avail. Blame not the weather, but the US systems in place for causalities and food problems worldwide.

As far as the Fed goes you are correct... but all currency is symbolic, or a fantasy of the mind, including shiny metal. You are also correct that the Fed encourages corruption and gaming of the system. The regulations put into place after the last great depression were removed by Saint Ronnie Reagan and voila another depression. We need regulation, oversight and transparency.



posted on Feb, 4 2011 @ 02:43 PM
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reply to post by Leo Strauss
 





Don't underestimate the greed game in casino America. The conditions that brought this "inflation" about are directly and almost solely tied to commodities futures arbitrage speculations being played on the Chicago Mercantile Exchange of all these worldwide necessities, like wheat, corn, rice, cocoa, sugar, etc, as well as the US subsidies that categorically "prop up" the worldwide prices for them. It has been well documented for decades that this system causes worldwide food shortages, leading to massive worldwide hunger and deaths because of it....


On that we agree, Although you forgot the CDSs used to make a casino game out of home and business foreclosures.

Our "Representatives" in the District of Criminals are SUPPOSED to represent our interests and protect us from the FRAUD committed by these greedy criminals. That is why we have a government and a Constitution instead of a Feudalistic Society run by a mob boss....

A reminder as we go into the seating of the new Congress Critters. This is the oath they swear upon being seated:

I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter: So help me God.

As far as I am concerned most of those seated in the US Congress for any length of time are OATH BREAKERS!



posted on Feb, 4 2011 @ 02:45 PM
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Originally posted by kwakakev
reply to post by Dance4Life
 


From some reports of the Derivatives market, there is more money tied up their than in the rest of the world combined. I don't know how true this is, but it does suggest that this market is a big financial force and can make a big difference for how the economy goes. I am a noob when it comes to the workings of Wall Street, basically I see it as the worlds biggest casino with a small group of the central American banks holding the house. I see part of the GFC problem was due to this house going bust. The futures market does help some corporations plan their productions, but can also bring famines through hoardings. Like any power it can do good and bad. It is complex currently being the main demand for mathematicians. One problem I see with it is how this small central group, which where the biggest receivers of the bailout funds manages the pools in the derivatives market. Maybe I am wrong? but it is how I currently see it.



OK. This is another great example of how the media loves to sell stories for advertising dollars.

First, let's understand something called "Notational Value". Basically notational value means the total amount of your leveraged position in the marketplace.

Second, let's understand leverage. Here is a simple example. If I have :

10 : 1 Leverage

this means I can get in essense 10: 1 on my money for a fixed instrument. So let's say I have 10,000 in a futures account I can leverage this money to $100,000 (10,000 * 10).

Now these wild numbers people are throwing around in the media (carelessly, IMO) are strictly notational value PLUS leverage.

So, here is the deal. For a large size Sp500 Futures Contract, (not the E-Mini) here is how it breaks down.

1 contract = 250 units of the Sp500 - aka you are buying the Sp500 * 250 , or 250 times over.

The Sp500 currently is at 1300 lets say. Let's do the math for the notational value of your position.

1 contract @ 250 units ( 1 * 250 ) * the Sp500 price currently @ 1300 = ( 1 * 250 * 1300 ) = $325,000

Now the media would have you believe you have laid out on the line $325,000 just on this 1 contract position. But in reality the margin requirements for this position is around $10,000. The margin requirement is actually a short term bond position, not many people know that. But that really doesn't matter here.

So while you have laid out $10,000 margin to hold this leveraged position, the media would go on TV and say ATS Memeber kwakakev has a $325,000 bet on the line.

Which sells more advertising do you think ( that is if anyone gave a hoot about your position )?

Anyway, the real point is you should always be suspect of anything you read online / print / TV media.



posted on Feb, 4 2011 @ 03:17 PM
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Originally posted by kwakakev
 

We are part of a multinational global community all dependant on each other to some degree.

Agreed but:
Maybe I am the only one who sees this as a bad thing.
Who would want a global community with leaders that corruptly spend all the acquired wealth?
Problem I see is that this nation has stretched itself thin.


Funding the war machine is killing you. It may be profitable for a few, but is disastrous to the many at home and abroad.

Having a physical choice of where my tax dollars go is out of my hands.
It should be put in the hands of people who know how to run a country.
Not frivolous spending on needless projects and government mandated control/regulations.
But I digress, it's not like the public, as a whole, would do anything to change it.
They haven't yet...because obviously not enough people see a big enough problem.



International discussions have been going on for a while and no consensus has been reached yet. I do think an international currency is the best way out for all concerned, but it needs to be based on a strong foundation free of corruption if it is to work, not pushed through the back door like the Euro. Maybe the world can get there one day, maybe it can't. The future is uncertain.

I can clearly understand why you say the things you do.
You see the international community as a good one.
Whereas I see it only as an opportunity to create more wealth.
I don't believe there is a need for this.
Corruption comes with those that lust for power/wealth.

No consensus has been made because they need a large crisis to change things.
Something to scare the masses into submission.
People won't change unless something alters there collective thinking.
It's already been mentioned..."We should take advantage of every crisis...(Emanuel)"
Either that, or they are scared of a real revolt.



It feels like a drastic change is coming, regardless if it's a slash of the dollar or a burp in the market. There's entirely too much happening at once, markets, 'politics', currency, or inflation of a fiat money.
Something has got to give.






posted on Feb, 4 2011 @ 03:18 PM
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reply to post by Leo Strauss
 





The regulations put into place after the last great depression were removed by Saint Ronnie Reagan and voila another depression. We need regulation, oversight and transparency....


Again you are half right. Saint Ronnie Reagan's administration ignored/ was lax in enforcing the anti-monpoly laws and Security and exchange laws during the 1980's Saint Billy Clinton (1993 - 2000) repealed the McFadden Act and the Glass-Steadman Act (the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act of 1999) and signed off on the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation Improvement Act of 1991 and Housing, the Community Development Act of 1992 and the Commodity Futures Modernization Act of 2000

The Commodity Futures Modernization Act of 2000 allowed the credit default swaps — CDSs to be completely unregulated.


AMY GOODMAN: So you have—Cassano [AIG] sells $500 billion of CDS protection with at least $64 billion of that tied in the subprime mortgage market.

MATT TAIBBI: Right, and right. And because the CDSs were unregulated—and this is because of a specific law back in the year 2000 called the Commodity Futures Modernization Act, which was sponsored by Phil Gramm. These instruments were unregulated. They were designated outside the regulation of—they couldn’t be regulated as futures commodities or as gaming, so there were no rules about this. So you could sell as much CDS protection as you wanted, but you didn’t have to actually post any capital when you did it. You know, when you sell a bond, somebody actually has to—you know, a $100 bond, somebody actually has to have $100. Well, that’s not the case with CDSs. You could sell as much of the stuff as you wanted, and you didn’t have to have any money at all. And that’s why AIG got in so much trouble. www.democracynow.org...




As I said the critters in the District of Criminals are either to IGNORANT to be allowed to run a government or are OATH BREAKERS. They certainly have not defended the USA against enemies domestic, instead they have aided in the rape of the US citizen.
edit on 4-2-2011 by crimvelvet because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 5 2011 @ 04:42 AM
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reply to post by crimvelvet
 




I think you are confused about what money is and what its role in society is.


I fail to see where the confusion is. I agree with the definition of money you provided. Money can be backed by anything, gold, assets, collection of other currencies, debt, nothing, ect. It is the shells, paper or digits that is important along with the rules behind it that maintains trade.



The quantity of money available in the whole economy is always sufficient to secure for everybody all that money does and can do


And that is where inflation comes in to secure a fair trade among the increasing amounts of money. Security does break down when too much money enters the market suddenly as peoples expectation and access to money is outstripped by its supply. This is hyper inflation and it does not sound safe for the community as monetary value losses it worth faster than society can keep pace with.



The existing money is an example of a "fixed pie of social value." Adding to the money supply does not add to its value.


Agreed. This is why I proposed fixing the money supply on the population to get rid of inflation and help limit all the other corruption currently going on. I also agree with all your other statements, things are a mess and unless things are cleaned up behind the bankers curtain the mess is just going to continue to spread.


reply to post by Dance4Life
 


Ugh...


I do understand what you are saying, the implications sounds like a magical fairyland. Do you think all these types of trading rules are beneficial to society or beneficial to the traders?


reply to post by havok
 




You see the international community as a good one. Whereas I see it only as an opportunity to create more wealth.


I see it as the only one we have got. Considering its history and where it has come from a lot of progress has been made. Considering the national leaders are bound to consider their national interest, the global interest does take a back seat at times. It is a complex world and when things are in such a mess that nations must work together, they will. Hopefully there are people smart enough to cut off the trouble before it starts, unfortunately that is not always the case.
edit on 5-2-2011 by kwakakev because: added some spaces



posted on Feb, 5 2011 @ 12:47 PM
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reply to post by kwakakev
 


I am not sure what you mean exactly. Can you go deeper in detail with your question?

There really are no "implications". Think about it like this.

Leverage can be a double edged sword. It can benefit you greatly, or you can blow up. Just like the housing market.

For example. You get leverage from a bank when you buy your home, no? You put down $50,000 on a $500,000 hours. You are getting 10 : 1 leverage in this example.

We need leverage in these markets because speculators are providing liquidity for commercial entities. But let's use another example, such as the 30 Year T-Bond.

If you were really thinking ahead, and had a home loan for this length you could perform an arbitrage ( this is a weak example ) of sorts. Lets say you have an adjustable home 30 year mortgage @ 5%. You are thinking that the rate is going to rise. You can sell the contract "ZB" ( 30 Year T-Bond ) with only $5500 in margin to open a position of $100,000.

You guess correctly, rates are rising and the price of ZB goes down. Remember, yields go up - prices go down. Congratulations, you have just made your adjustable rate mortgage into a fixed @ 5%.

A better example of an arbitrage would be selling the 10 year and buying the 30 year / or any combination of such.



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