Teen 'Wolf Pack' Arrested for kidnapping and hanging a boy [he survived] Bullying out of control?

reply to post by glad_to_be_His


I wouldn't say that we just say, "it sucks to be the weak guy." And, in the case of this OP, it is quite possible that the boys have already been in previous trouble, and they might deserve this attention and law involvement.

I would say though, that it does suck to be the weak guy, but one has to learn to survive and play the hand they are dealt. The weak guy needs to learn survival mechanisms that will allow him to grow up and fend for himself. Maybe it is humor or intelligence or karate or whatever. Society will never be able to remove every threat, and it is dangerous to shelter somebody for so long that they never learn those necessary mechanisms to use whatever their unique qualities are to survive in adverse conditions. I believe we are damaging the society as a whole by over-protecting our children. I don't want my sons to have to face a bully for the first time when they are 25. I want them to face them down day after day in all the different varieties that bullies come in, so that they can learn different reactions and tactics for every situation. Some bullies are bigger and violent, some are wittier and snide, some are backstabbing and two-faced. Our children need exposure to all types, and if we keep interrupting that natural process, we are damaging their growth as little people.

Originally posted by LadySkadi
Just to add a bit more perspective and background: the teens (all of them including the victim) attend the alternative program/school, which right there says that none of them are "model" teens. The program is for teens that make bad decisions and need more "care" with regards to education setting, decision making skills and behavior issues. Bear in mind, I've worked in alternative high school (teaching) so am quite familiar with the various reasons students would have, for attending these programs.

I have run into some of these troubled teens from "alternative schooling" programs. IMO what they are for the most part is a way to keep the graduation rates in a district up so that the system looks better than it actually is. My experience comes from military recruiting whereby a lot of these kids from these alternative schools would come in with their "diplomas" and try and enlist.

How one can issue a "diploma" to and call someone a "high school graduate" who can barely read write or speak basic English I cannot fathom.

The average AFQT from these type kids was around 15-20 on a 1-99 scale. It’s a basic percentile score meaning these kids are academically the bottom 15-20% of the population. Yet they have graduated from high school which is the benchmark the schools are looking for. They could care less about the kid’s actual intellect or ability which is one problem with the No Child Left Behind thingy.

Also, many had criminal records so long that we needed extra pages for their applications and there is room for 10-15 charges on the original. Invariably they would have 10-15 minor type possession or assault charges all of which were either dismissed, adjudicated to a lesser charge or mitigated by a host of "intervention" programs all in the name of the system not wanting to mark a kid with a permanent adult charge for as some people have opined "acting like kids".

This is in effect the problem - these kids would invariably walk in and feel like they were entitled to a waiver for these issues. Sure we do grant waivers but no one is entitled to one; however, we'd approve 50% of them while IMO only 10% or so were actually remorseful about their past behavior. (This was when the Army was having trouble recruiting - now that the economy sucks we don't have to scrape the barrel.)

The program has been successful in helping many students rehabilitate, he said, but "apparently the students taken by the police today chose to continue to make bad decisions that ultimately resulted in their arrests and removal from school."

Of course he thinks the program is successful he'd have to keep his job - I wonder if they track the kids after they "graduate" from their programs. I would bet most are virtually unemployable intellectually and I bet morally most business owners wouldn't want them around your cash drawers.

These schools cost a lot more to run than regular schools as well because they have to have special ed teachers and a different counselor to student ratio not to mention their security requirements and such.

All this for the sake of funding since I would argue these "poor decisions" (I call them crimes, which they are.) if dealt with harshly and swiftly with actual and effective punishment rather than understanding and indulgence by the system there would be less of them. I am curious if your experiance teaching at one of the schools has resulted in a similar conclusion.

I know some kids have real issues and in that case should have some special considerations made but not all kids who get in trouble have them. Some (I would say most) are just not taught at home the clear and fundamental difference between right and wrong. The parents fail then the system in hopes of being kind and understanding of that fact do the same thing by being lenient and understanding….

Kids act out when there are no clear consequences to their actions - this is fairly obvious to me as a parent. I don't know a lot about social work I guess....

Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by glad_to_be_His

 

I would say though, that it does suck to be the weak guy, but one has to learn to survive and play the hand they are dealt. The weak guy needs to learn survival mechanisms that will allow him to grow up and fend for himself. Maybe it is humor or intelligence or karate or whatever. Society will never be able to remove every threat, and it is dangerous to shelter somebody for so long that they never learn those necessary mechanisms to use whatever their unique qualities are to survive in adverse conditions.

Totally agree.

Our children need exposure to all types, and if we keep interrupting that natural process, we are damaging their growth as little people.

The bullies need to be taught as well and encouraging the behavior (which igoring the behavior does) also brings bad consequences. If my son were bullying someone I would want him to face the consequences of his actions (...er, "man up") and learn that this is not acceptable behavior. That's all I am trying to say. That downplaying this type of story sends a message that it is all normal and therefore the people offended by this obscene behavior are the one's who are somehow "flawed."

Originally posted by Wyn Hawks

Originally posted by LadySkadi
America's youth getting more out of control?

...bullies arent a new problem... we just hear about it more than we did prior to the internet...

...if this boy's mom hadnt pressed charges, we probably wouldnt be hearing about this one since he wasnt hospitalized or killed...

...this boy's school administration is part of the problem... they told him not to come back to school, which is punishing the victim, imo... i'd like to hear their excuse for that...

The new movies dont help- if there wasnt films it would be alright-if there wasnt soaps its would be alright- if there wasnt tv it would be alright

reply to post by glad_to_be_His


True. The bullies need to learn their life lessons as well. But the most natural way to learn those is to underestimate one of the littler or weaker guys!

I mentioned earlier that we used to hang my little brother up on the light poles, the last time we did that, was the time that he went and found his bow and arrow and came back after us! Not only did I fear for my life, not sleep too well for a few nights, and learn to respect him, but we also both had to answer to Mom and Dad for the arrows stuck randomly through the house!

I had a bully once that was 6 years older than me, he was on steroids and playing center for a local college football team. He would pick at me and slap me around and just be overall mean, and one day I laid into him in his most vulnerable spot, and he was sitting on an icepack and pissing blood for a week! Of course, he also caught up with me and through me into a spruce tree, and I was picking needles out of my arse for a week! We learned to co-exist, mutual respect and all that.

I think the only reason school officials told him not to come back to school it b/c they don't want to be held accountable if something bad happens to the kid. Of course this reasoning is BS because the ADULTS at the school should be watching out for kids, but we all know THAT is not going to happen.

Have boys always had it this rough with bullies? When I was in high school all the girls were catty at times but I never saw the boys do stuff like this.

reply to post by angrymomma


I agree, the girls are far meaner.

Yes, the boys have always had it this way, but they usually get over it and move on quickly. It doesn't fester and turn into a lifelong feud like it does for some of the girls.

I don't know how many times I got in fights with my friends, or how many friends I made after good ol' Midwestern fights. Sometimes a very close bond can be forged this way. A couple of my best buddies started off as enemies.

I actually have a boxing match planned with one of my best buddies coming up soon. He has been working out and talking a lot of smack lately, I'm pushing 40 and he's about to turn 30, so we decided to see how much of it we still got! Not quite the knock down drag outs we had at a young age, but still a good physical resolution and a great way to let off some steam and settle some differences. We'll surely go have a beer afterwards, if either of us can move.

reply to post by getreadyalready


Yeah, that's the reason I don't have many chick friends. I have maybe 2 and the rest are guys. I can't stand cattiness. Though, I know some men that are just as bad as girls O.o

Eesh, no doubt girls and boys resolve social status hierarchies and problems in a different way. If only it were as simple in "girl world" as having a knock-down fight and then brushing it off and moving on after. Anyone interested in reading up/getting a bit of insight into what really goes down, not to mention what Parents do to contribute to the issues girls face, should take a look at the book: Queen Bees and Wannabes (and NO, the movie doesn't count!)

Mod Note - Please Review - Courtesy is mandetory

Whenever I hear something like this, my heart aches. This is the type of thing that will scar the person it happens to for life. People joke in their comments about it, but there is NOTHING funny about it AT ALL. I have never been bullied, but it affects me deeply when I see it or read of it. I was the one in school who always took up for the bullied kids, I adopt abused animals, because I can't stand to see another living being have their spirit crushed. Call me oversensitive, but I don't care....it is something I'm passionate about. Bullying does so much more than hurt the victim physically...it is HUMILIATING....it crushes their spirit. It can have so much psychological effect, that the person either totally turn inward, and become depressed and suicidal, or, it can go the other direction, and one day they just explode and hurt others. The "boys will be boys" thing is just BS! Every living thing deserves respect, human or animal. I think bullies should be punished AND have to attend mandatory counseling. It's cruel....period!