Jesus Christ Master Mason

As a follower of Jesus, and as a person who believes that the original Masons had good intentions, I can believe that Jesus had the quality of being a Mason - He was a carpenter, and the meaning of the word Mason is builder.

I can also believe that Masonry has since become twisted, as everything does that we humans touch.

Think about this, hopefully many of you are aware that google tracks key words on it's search engine to see how and what the masses are thinking and among other things.
Well, if say 70 to 80 percent of the population of the Earth as an example is gobbling up the idea that UFO's, aliens, abductions, and animal mutilations by E.T.'s are real, what do you think the elite's would do to gain total control over people? How about debunking a belief system for one? How about bringing in a false security of peace, or someone or something that finally might have the answers to all humanities problems.
Sometimes people themselves can be their own worst enemy without even realizing it, and causing themselves to fall into tyranny.
Things to ponder upon, psychology can be used as a weapon to manipulate minds. Time to recognize, time to really wake up, time to really take a hard look, and look in the right direction.
I agree, religion is a tool to control, but religion is man made, Christianity is not man made, it is of Christ. It means to be a follower of Christ.
The bible has been translated numerous times, but if you do the research, it has been manipulated about three times and there are about 22 English translations which in my opinion there are about 8 or 9 that are worth having because they are close to the best translations from the original Greek and Hebrew.
How can a book like this last as long as it has compared to all other books in the world.
If scientist were willing and sometimes even allowed, they would be able to prove that God does truly exist.
But because of man's stubborn and sinful nature, God is being and has been pushed out in just about every part of human life.
Mankind is arrogant enough to think that he can out think God. When you consider how big the Milky Way Galaxy is and the infinite Universe, we are less than a speck. Physicist has realized that the laws of physics does not always apply, this is how little humans know. Can there not be a God, I doubt it very much.
The choice is yours to choose your own destiny, choose wisely your soul will depend on it.

reply to post by manna2

But the Lucifer discussed in the Book of Isaiah is actually a Babylonian king, a man, not Satan. It is a mistranslation traced back to the 4th century.

reply to post by hawaii50th

Freemasonry isn't trying to destroy or mix together religions. It's neutral in respect to one's particular faith. I have my Christian faith while some of my Brothers don't.

Originally posted by Masonic Light
Most do not. Actually only two do: the Scottish Rite of Masonry and the Order of Holy Royal Arch Knight Templar Priests, both of which have 33 degrees.

Also, are you not a member of the latter order?

reply to post by daddio

Lucifer or Baphomet are not mentioned in any of our rituals.

reply to post by Phenomium

YEAH! A mad zealot!!!

What exactly about Freemasonry is contrary to the teachings of Jesus? We don't worship Baphomet, that is a lie based on a known, well-documented hoax. What is your evidence of this accusation?

reply to post by sterlingmoon

Satan was cast down, but Lucifer was a Babylonian king who was so disgraced that his descendants were cursed as well. It comes down to a mistranslation by St. Jerome in the 4th Century. The original text said "Helal, son of Shahar" which translates into "Day Star, son of the Morning". In St. Jerome's time, the day star (or morning star) was called Lucifer (aka the planet Neptune). Isaiah even identifies Helal as a Babylonian king earlier in the Chapter. You can also look at different translations of the Bible and Lucifer isn't used anywhere.

Also note some interesting facts: Jesus was referred to as the morning star, the Bible says to let the light of the morning star into your heart, and in the 4th century, there was a Bishop from Cagliari named Lucifer.

Satan literally means "adversary" or "the accuser", it has nothing to do with being unable to speak.

Isaiah 14:4 - That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased!

Revelations 22:16 - I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star

2 Peter 1:19 - We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:

reply to post by hawaii50th

And how is this Masonic hierarchy structured? Could you please enlighten us? Is it through the York Rite, the Scottish Rite, or the Shriners? In the Scottish Rite, is it the 33rd or something higher? In the York Rite, which one of the numerous appendant bodies is it?

Is it the body/rite with more degrees/orders and stricter/selective requirements?

reply to post by felonius

Have you read the Gnostic Gospels? Very interesting read.

Originally posted by KSigMason
Also, are you not a member of the latter order?

Yes. Only the highest degree is actually worked, with the others being conferred as titles previously to one's initiation. Qualifications for membership are that one be Master Mason, Royal Arch Mason, and Past Commander of a Commandery of Knights Templar, as well as being a Trinitarian Christian and contributor to the Order of Knights Templar.

Grand College of America, Holy Royal Arch Knight Templar Priests

What is this, major league Baseball?

reply to post by KSigMason


At the heart of all the ranking systems is an advanced genetic algorithm, basically a geometric construct. Varying "degrees" represent the angle of approach, and there are thus three sides that you can start from.

Originally posted by catwhoknowsplusone
As a follower of Jesus, and as a person who believes that the original Masons had good intentions, I can believe that Jesus had the quality of being a Mason - He was a carpenter, and the meaning of the word Mason is builder.

I can also believe that Masonry has since become twisted, as everything does that we humans touch.

Jesus was never a carpenter. That was his father.

reply to post by KSigMason


lucifer is a light bearer
A shining one.
I believe lucifer is a spawn of "satan" not satan himself. So what you get is a description of the being in their name. Samael, who later was given the name "satan", or liar/deceiver made some babies with the daughter of man. One of these offspring was lucy (lucifer). The early Hebrews called all his offspring satan and lucifer was as much a lineage as it is/was a person.
Like I said, you simplified translations to suit your presupposed ideas to be right, not seeking truth.
Lucem ferre, is this not a description? The ancient Hebrews used this name to describe the snakes in their wanderings in the wilderness.
Are we to assume that they were actually describing satan? Or is this just another key in understanding?
The Hebrews called Nimrod satan. Not lucifer but satan.
Why? Ask yourself why and you might begin to understand.
oh, one mistranslation is not the baby, it's the bathwater. Those who are discerning understand this and therefor NEVER rely on the part to make the whole

reply to post by manna2


which book is all this information in? I admit I have not read the whole Bible, but it seems that since nobody has quoted a scripture with things like this, that it's opinion and no where near fact. If I am wrong, please just list the location where I can find it.

Originally posted by catwhoknowsplusone
I can believe that Jesus had the quality of being a Mason - He was a carpenter, and the meaning of the word Mason is builder.

I have read somewhere I can't remember that "carpenter" in the original language context, actually meant something closer to "one who works with his hands," which could either symbolically or actually be linked to masonry, building, etc.

Originally posted by network dude
which book is all this information in? I admit I have not read the whole Bible, but it seems that since nobody has quoted a scripture with things like this, that it's opinion and no where near fact.

Well, even quoting the Bible wouldn't necessarily make it "fact." The Bible is an interesting starting point for a lot of this conjecture, however, to fill in the gaps left by the people who wanted to make the Bible read a particular way, it's important to read the various apocryphal, Gnostic, and pseudigraphical texts and variant translations found in places like:

EARLY CHRISTIAN WRITINGS

I suppose it should also be mentioned that the original Freemasons, builders and architects with specialized knowledge of astronomy/astrology, physics and math, were likely Egyptian (or even Babylonian), with some of their knowledge being passed along to the Jews and Greeks. So it's not specifically a Christian organization, but tends that way because it was the dominant European Christians who partially revived the organization after it was destroyed in the Dark Ages.

Originally posted by CholmondleyWarner
(Mark 3:25) ..."And if a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand."

Who better to repair that house than a bricklayer, sorry, ahem, a freemason!

Again, in context, Jesus is using this argument to justify his calling on the demon Beelzebub to cast other demons out of people. His idea was that by using Satan's own demons to do good work, you divide his dominion and weaken him. Unfortunately, he may have been wrong. It was around this time that Jesus starts saying some pretty inflammatory things, and even some of his own followers suggest that he has gone insane, or has been contaminated by demonic forces (same thing).

Additionally, because he also talks about Solomon at this time, he may be equating Solomon's work and organization (Freemasonry), with the Devil's house. Beezebul was called to Solomon and was commanded by Solomon to do all kinds of things.

reply to post by Blue Shift


The Lord did say that in the time of the end many will be confused, and it sure does look that way.
I myself am not perfect I never would claim to be. But because of my faith in Christ, I must try and share His good news. It is obvious that He is being rejected again and His Word is being perverted to suit those that can not accept the truth.
I'm out of here, and the rest of you enjoy yourselves bumping into each other in the darkness of the night.

A reply to all the preceding post:

Genesis 11:7 (New International Version, ©2010)

7 Come, let us go down and confuse their language so they will not understand each other.”

Psalm 55:9 (New International Version, ©2010)

9 Lord, confuse the wicked, confound their words,
for I see violence and strife in the city.

Deuteronomy 28:20 (New International Version, ©2010)

20 The LORD will send on you curses, confusion and rebuke in everything you put your hand to, until you are destroyed and come to sudden ruin because of the evil you have done in forsaking him.[a]

Galatians 1:6-10 (New International Version, ©2010)

No Other Gospel
6 I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you to live in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— 7 which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse! 9 As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let them be under God’s curse!

10 Am I now trying to win the approval of human beings, or of God? Or am I trying to please people? If I were still trying to please people, I would not be a servant of Christ.

Originally posted by fordrew

Originally posted by catwhoknowsplusone
As a follower of Jesus, and as a person who believes that the original Masons had good intentions, I can believe that Jesus had the quality of being a Mason - He was a carpenter, and the meaning of the word Mason is builder.

I can also believe that Masonry has since become twisted, as everything does that we humans touch.

Jesus was never a carpenter. That was his father.

Wrong. Mark 6:3:

Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary* and brother of James and Joses and Judas and Simon, and are not his sisters here with us?’ And they took offence* at him.

The word translated "carpenter" from the Greek is actually τεκτων (tekton), which literally means, um, "stone worker." (it's where we get the term "tectonics" for the movement of stone).

Ok, I was gonna leave this alone, but alas, it has gotten silly.

There is no Lucifer in Freemasonry. In the Blue Lodge, you have an open Bible on the altar at all times. It is a King James Version of the Holy Bible. This is a REQUIREMENT in all regular Masonic Lodges. The Lodge is opened with prayers from the Holy Bible. You take a binding obligation on the Bible. You must affirm that you put your trust in GOD.

The secrets are mundane. They are merely a way to tell one is a Mason. Even the Flinstones had a way of telling one water buffalo from another.

In the higher degrees of the York Rite namely the Knights Templar, you swear an oath to support and defend CHRISTIANITY. You MUST be a Christian to take these degrees.

If you are going to condemn Freemasonry, the only thing you have to condemn it on is its EXCLUSIVITY. If you condemn it on that, you better be ready to condemn the Catholic Church, the Christian Church, the Islamic Church, and any and all things that serve to seperate Mankind.

That is the fault I see in the fraternity. It is the only fault I see, but I see that fault in many many organisations around the world. Mankind needs to come together and dispense with the systems of iniquity and division.

There is nothing in Freemasonry that will give you any power except the power of Brotherhood. Brotherhood is not evil save for when it is not extended to all mankind.

Thats the skinny. If you need to judge, judge appropriately. Ensure there is nothing in YOUR heart that divides you from the Brotherhood of Man. That is the highest and the lowest in the family. Remove that stumbling block first, lest ye be a hypocrite.

With Love,

Your Brother

reply to post by Masonic Light

You gotta love the good Joe Manning. Very involved.

reply to post by manna2

Yes, Lucifer translates into "light bearer". In ancient Roman astrology, Lucifer was the "star" that preceded the rising Sun. Lucifer we know today is the planet Venus.

Isaiah clearly says that Lucifer is a disgraced Babylonian king, not a spiritual being. If you remember your history, especially that of monarchs, you will know that kings are often referred to as "shining" or "illustrious". Also, Isaiah is the only book to have used "Lucifer" in it, and that's only with certain translations.

Too many literalistic readers see a mistranslation and still take it at face value without gaining a true understanding of it. Suddenly a man is given the status of a fallen angel and the Prince of Darkness is associated with being a "light bearer".

Plus, Samael is in the Jewish Bible if memory serves me right not the Christian Bible.

reply to post by hawaii50th

I'm not confused about his word. If anything I'm trying to correct those under wrong impressions due to mistranslations that occurred centuries ago.

I have Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, I am not rejecting his message.

reply to post by KSigMason


Read the Gnostics?

Absolutely! I tend toward the Gnostic myself.

My Jersualem Bible and a book called The Other Bible are my two favorites.

IMHO, Jesus taught Gnosticism.

"Know ye not that the Kingdom of God is within you?"

I'm surprised that the "Church" kept that line in the "official" writ. I've always taken that as we have no need for an "intercessor" (confessor priest). We have a personal hot line to Diety. That kinda flies in the face of accepted dogma.

My dogma was ran over at a young age

Eyes to see, ears to hear. I guess "wisdom" will always "snake" its way through the arrogance and corruption of mans machinations!

Originally posted by felonius
reply to post by KSigMason

 

"Know ye not that the Kingdom of God is within you?"

Interestingly, though, the "you" in that text in plural. And the "within" is literally "in the midst of." Both interpretations (kingdom within the individual / kingdom present when believers come to together) are equally valid.

.............That kinda flies in the face of accepted dogma.

Only if you happen to be a Catholic; the rest of us have been reading the text for ourselves for centuries now. The hot-lines have been open the whole time.

all the best.