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The Amazing Paranormal Power of... Disbelief

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posted on Feb, 1 2011 @ 07:43 AM
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Thats right, true disbelievers! It seems that you too have a superpower - the power of disbelief! Equal and opposite to the power of belief. Together, the power of belief and the power of disbelief comprise the sheep-goat effect. This is an effect that shows up in parapsychology experiments when you have test subjects that are believers and subjects that are disbelievers and you compare their scoring patterns. They call the believers sheep and the disbelievers goats.

"The sheep got more right than you would expect by chance guessing, they were occasionally using ESP. The goats, on the other hand, got significantly fewer right than you would expect by chance. Think of it this way. If you were asked to guess red or black with ordinary playing cards, no feedback until you'd done the whole deck, you would average about 50% correct by chance. If you got 100% correct, you don't need statistics to know that would be astounding. But if you got 0%? Just as astounding!

The sheep thought they could do it, they got "good" scores, they were happy. The goats knew there was no ESP, nothing to get, they got poor scores, they were happy, that "proved" their belief. These were not people who were sophisticated enough about statistics to know that scoring below chance could be significant…

Many other experimenters replicated this effect over the years.

The only way I've ever been able to understand it is to think that the goats occasionally used ESP, but on an unconscious level, to know what the next card was and then their unconscious, acting in the service of their conscious belief system, influenced them to call anything but the correct one. The goats used a "miracle" to support their belief that there were no such things as miracles….

Talk about living in samsara, in a state of illusion!"
Charles Tart

Wow.

So, it could be that disbelievers have the power to unknowingly use psychic ability to maintain their flawed belief that there is no such thing as psychic ability! Amazing! The power of disbelievers vs the power of believers produces a sort of transpersonal stalemate...which is part of the reason why the paranormal is so elusive.

Here are a couple of parapsychology papers for your consideration.

Effect of Belief on Psi Performance in a Card Guessing Task

Abstract

Subjects were asked to carry out a clairvoyance task as a study of the effect of belief and its modulation on psi performance. The task was to guess hidden symbols on Zener cards. Subjects stated whether they believed in the existence of psi, after which the belief was either supported or contradicted by written and verbal arguments. After this, the subjects carried out the clairvoyance task. A total of 12 subjects were each asked to guess the content of 100 hidden Zener cards. The p-value for believers given pro-psi arguments was 0.028 (two-tailed), which is substantially different (p = 0.039) and better than the values for the nonbelievers and believers who were given anti-psi arguments. This supports the concept that successful psi performance results from belief in psi, and not the reverse.

[...]

It can help explain why many experiments have not shown repeatable results, where differences between subjects rather than experimental conditions influence the results.

[...]

If subject belief is required for significant psi-task success, then it could explain why certain people are such deeply rooted believers or nonbelievers..."

[...]

CONSISTENT MISSING: A TYPE OF INFORMATION-PROCESSING ERROR IN ESP

ABSTRACT

Consistent missing (CM), defined as the tendency of the subject in an ESP test to mistake particular symbols for certain other symbols, has been discussed as a type of information-processing error in ESP and also as a possible source of psi-missing. The present paper surveys the relevant literature and summarizes (1) the extent of occurrence of CM, (2) the relationship between scoring rate and CM, and (3) the available evidence concerning the factors that lead to CM.

Six of the 11 subjects for whom CM analyses have been carried out showed significant CM effects in all or parts of their data. The presence of CM was not consistently related to the direct-hit scoring rate; and in the two sets of psi-missing data that are available, CM did not appear to be the dominant factor in the production of the negative scoring. The factors that apparently sometimes lead to CM confusions include the similarities of meaning and associations between targets as well as the visual resemblances.

Further work should pay particular attention to the subjects' reports about the nature of their ESP impressions in order to investigate the extent to which CM is determined by the specific mechanisms used to mediate ESP information into consciousness.

[...]

It should also be kept in mind that CM could occur when there is motivation for low scores. Thus, CM could be a mechanism for the production of psi-missing. From a more general point of view, CM could result from a situation in which, given that the correct target is to be avoided because of motivational factors, the calls are systematically associated with particular alternative targets rather than uniformly distributed over all the other targets. Thus, the presence of CM in psi-missing data does not disqualify the possible role of motivation. Also, under these conditions, CM would not necessarily reflect any particular similarity or "confusion" between targets.

[...]

Favorable Psychological Factors: An Organizational Schema

In addressing psi-conducive psychological conditions, I will make use of an organizational schema proposed by Allan Combs (1996). Combs’ schema includes three hierarchical levels: There are states of mind (such as sadness, joy, depression, enthusiasm, doubt, determination, and other moods and dispositions) that are relatively transient, and their defining content is important and narrow. These are supported by a second level: states of consciousness.

These consciousness states are larger and consist of unique configurations of sets of processes of thought, imagery, feelings, memories, world perceptions, and self-perceptions. Examples include the well-recognized ordinary and altered states that have been discussed extensively by Charles Tart (1969, 1975), Stanislav Grof (1975, 1985, 1988; Grof & Bennett, 1992), and others—ordinary waking consciousness, nondream sleep, dream sleep, meditative states, shamanic trances, hypnosis, and so on. Combs likens these states of consciousness to the so-called attractors of chaos theory. The third, and broadest, level is that of structures of consciousness. These are “entire overarching regimes that determine how the world is experienced and understood” (Combs, 1996, p. 263).

These are the more global forms of consciousness—the archaic, magical, mythical, mental, and integral patterns of thinking—identified by Jean Gebser (1949/1986). In these different structures of consciousness—which, according to Gebser, developed in successive historical periods, but which continue to be active in us, today, in various ways and at various times—different mental processes are possible, impossible, and differently valued. These five consciousness structures are more inclusive and more enduring than are states of consciousness and states of mind, and they may be likened to worldviews or mindsets (or even paradigms of thought).

[...]

Thanks for reading.




posted on Feb, 1 2011 @ 05:12 PM
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Why don’t I believe there is a god? Because everything has a beginning... so where did god come from?
And I guess dinosaurs are the devils work... or that when scientists find dinosaur bones, they first remove the human bones before taking pictures.
Why do you celebrate your “saviour’s” birthday on the birthday of the Roman Sun god’s?
And of course the Earth is only about 6000 years old.
Oh... and Noah’s arch just so happened to hold two of each animal. Really? He traveled to the two poles and all the continents to collect two of each animal and bug/insect? The body mass of bugs/insects alone is enough to fill up the biggest ship we have.
Go peddle your fairy tails somewhere else.



posted on Feb, 1 2011 @ 06:12 PM
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reply to post by ijoyisback
 


I can't see how that reply addresses the original post.

Thanks for the good read, OP. Star and flag.



posted on Feb, 1 2011 @ 06:49 PM
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Disbelief is an incredibly powerful tool, well not so much disbelief but more belief in the status quo. Most practioners will tell you they have trouble around too many skeptics, even when skeptics aren't actively engaged in observing whatever act of paranormal activity is taking place.

Its part of the reason why the controlling powers choose to flaunt certain things in peoples faces, to ensure that the subconscious mind of the masses is attuned to a certain type of reality.



posted on Feb, 1 2011 @ 06:59 PM
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reply to post by maskfan
 


Id have to agree with this outlook on reality thus reinforcing it.

Ok when I was in college before I began my own investigations similar to the experiment at the start of this thread our teacher split the group into 2 sides.
*On one side they were to write as many things as they could that had positive meaning to them.
*The other side were to write as many negative meaning things as they could. There was a prize at the end for motivation.

By the end of the experiment the Positives were all active moving about energetic laughing you get the idea.
The negative side were all apathetic in attitude not motivated slouched in their chairs disinterested you get the idea.

The results were the positive side words greatly outnumbered the neg side. Not only this but the focus on these words had had an effect on their general attitude. I was on the neg side and I felt like S%*t. I jusst wanted to share this observation try it as a party game sometime the results are an eye opener.



posted on Feb, 1 2011 @ 07:16 PM
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reply to post by delta.bravo.delta
 


Id say it addresses it by demonstration!

Behold, the power of disbelief resulting in missing the focus entirely!
I think we see this particular iteration demonstrated, and represented, on a pretty consistent basis.

Good thread



posted on Feb, 1 2011 @ 07:40 PM
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reply to post by sinohptik
 


I think there are inherent duality properties to intention as in. Many people use an egoic way of gauging their self worth that I have met. This includes ideas and perspectives they may have. Once an idea disagrees with an individuals egoic reality outlook this must often be confronted and dis-proven. A cow who thinks it is not a cow is still a cow. It just hasn't realized it yet.
In walks someone who says hey reality may be different to this perspective we have all been told to accept. The critic will see this as an affront to their accepted reality and because their self worth is based on the validity of their outlook their ego directs the higher mind to impede the success of the proposed pk action. (or reality manipulation)

This actually can be measured as a statistically significant effect. There is also another effect I cannot remember the coined term however it was shown that as scientific tests were drawn out and the subject became disinterested the recorded pk effect decreased. This of course is all opinion but its the best model I have to explain the observed effects in this scenario so far.
edit on 1-2-2011 by Shirak because: Spelling correction Com to Cow



posted on Feb, 1 2011 @ 07:55 PM
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Originally posted by Shirak
reply to post by maskfan
 


Id have to agree with this outlook on reality thus reinforcing it.

Ok when I was in college before I began my own investigations similar to the experiment at the start of this thread our teacher split the group into 2 sides.
*On one side they were to write as many things as they could that had positive meaning to them.
*The other side were to write as many negative meaning things as they could. There was a prize at the end for motivation.

By the end of the experiment the Positives were all active moving about energetic laughing you get the idea.
The negative side were all apathetic in attitude not motivated slouched in their chairs disinterested you get the idea.

The results were the positive side words greatly outnumbered the neg side. Not only this but the focus on these words had had an effect on their general attitude. I was on the neg side and I felt like S%*t. I jusst wanted to share this observation try it as a party game sometime the results are an eye opener.


Wouldn't it make sense that if you were forced to think of all the negative things in life, that you would suddenly not feel too good? If you have to remember all the bad things that ever happened to you, I can't see how that would be uplifting in any way. The happy side was happy, because they were remembering happy memories in their life. If we're having a great conversation about something positive and then suddenly I mention something about how your ex broke your heart, will you be able to maintain your positive attitude through that conversation?

The experiment you participated in doesn't seem too revealing, other than learning that if you're going to think of bad things, you'll probably start feeling bad/stressed out because in a way you are reliving those moments, which inhibits your brain function. Seems like a no-brainer.

As for the OP, interesting find.



posted on Feb, 1 2011 @ 08:18 PM
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I personally found the value in the observation that the positive outlook produced a larger result of words than the negative outlook and not only did it have an effect on productivity but general attitude and feel. The neg side demonstrated a self fulfilling "prophesy" (metaphor) By exhibiting the traits they were focused on.

Analysis: I think it demonstrates that the reality you focus your intention and energy on is the reality you will produce.

A: I think that pk does not exist I am critical of anything that does not fit into my mechanical model of reality this is the reality effect I have on my surroundings.

B:I believe in a multidimensional and infinite potential ie anything is possible. I focus on affecting something through my intention it happens.



posted on Feb, 1 2011 @ 08:44 PM
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Student X. Dude. You just rock!

Are you sure you aren't me while I'm sleepwalking? Or sleep-posting?

You even worked in Charles Tart.

What's next, posting scans of the necronomicon?



posted on Feb, 1 2011 @ 08:47 PM
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Originally posted by Shirak
I personally found the value in the observation that the positive outlook produced a larger result of words than the negative outlook and not only did it have an effect on productivity but general attitude and feel. The neg side demonstrated a self fulfilling "prophesy" (metaphor) By exhibiting the traits they were focused on.

Analysis: I think it demonstrates that the reality you focus your intention and energy on is the reality you will produce.

A: I think that pk does not exist I am critical of anything that does not fit into my mechanical model of reality this is the reality effect I have on my surroundings.

B:I believe in a multidimensional and infinite potential ie anything is possible. I focus on affecting something through my intention it happens.



Is it really a prophecy in the case of the experiment? If I start thinking about all the negative things in my life, I'm going to have a very hard time focusing on any task ahead of me. My stress level will rise, which will inhibit my brain function. Stress has a lot of negative effects on our body. If we focus on the negative, it will manifest itself in many different ways. Saying that bad thoughts will make you feel bad, is like saying if you stab your hand with a knife, it is going to hurt. It's an obvious connection.

If you constantly concentrate on the positive, you will be able to focus better and get more work done. You will feel as though you can accomplish anything. A positive outlook on life does not produce stress, and therefore makes you feel less inhibited when performing a task.

You'll get no argument from me if you say we shape the reality around us. We certainly do.....whether consciously or subconsciously.



posted on Feb, 1 2011 @ 09:03 PM
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reply to post by ijoyisback
 


Just making a point.....Noah took 2 of each kind not 2 of each species therefore he didnt need to go all round the earth collecting them. i.e 2 dogs, not 2 beagle, 2 great danes, 2 corgies etc.



posted on Feb, 1 2011 @ 09:59 PM
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Originally posted by squizzy
reply to post by ijoyisback
 


Just making a point.....Noah took 2 of each kind not 2 of each species therefore he didnt need to go all round the earth collecting them. i.e 2 dogs, not 2 beagle, 2 great danes, 2 corgies etc.


Don't try and interpret the old testament in a literal sense, it wasn't written to be read that way and you just end up backing yourself into corners by doing so.



posted on Feb, 1 2011 @ 10:15 PM
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reply to post by maskfan
 


Some people believe in it literally, your reality is what you believe. I never get backed into a corner as I make sure I am always in a round room when here



posted on Feb, 2 2011 @ 12:01 AM
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Originally posted by squizzy
reply to post by maskfan
 


Some people believe in it literally, your reality is what you believe. I never get backed into a corner as I make sure I am always in a round room when here


That is true but in this case you aren't actually following what the bible says literally, you are merely passing on a justification for a literal interpretation which you have been taught.

The actual story you're talking about in the original text clearly states "And from all that lives, of all flesh, two of each shall you bring into the Ark to keep alive with you; they shall be male and female. From each bird according to its kind, and from each animal according to its kind, and from each thing that creeps on the ground according to its kind, two of each shall come to you to keep alive".

It seems pretty clear that the order was to take two of every kind of every living creature (apart from aquatic creatures), not simply one master print for each race of beast but 'two of each according to its kind' and that those creatures came of their own accord (indeed part of the miracle of the flood was that the animals came of their own accord and that such a small boat housed so many varied creatures).

Take the bible literally if you like, but at the very least take it literally. Perverting or wantenly misinterpreting the lessons of the bible (or any other sacred book) to try and make it seem to fit with the modern world view (such as in your example of only 2 dogs not 2 beagles 2 great danes on the Ark, or in the bible museum in the US where they show man playing with dinosaurs) is why lay members of certain faiths fail to inspire non belivers (and why many educated people fall out of love with god).

Actually the three major religions (four if you include atheism) are a good example of the elites preprogramming of the subconsiousness of the masses. They expertly hide valuable information in plain sight whilst making you see something completey different.



posted on Feb, 2 2011 @ 12:27 AM
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reply to post by maskfan
 


I hear what you are saying, at the same time your specific example was flawed. The text you cited commands Noah to take "from each kind" of animal; so what is, that? Is it a species, a phylum, an order? A super-order? Honestly, you are so quick to point out his/her logical dishonesty that you are painting them into a corner by "force-feeding" a particular interpretation...and isn't that what you are decrying in the first place?

Telling him/her what he/she "must believe" if they want to take the account seriously... Why, so you can set them up as a straw man for you to knock down?

I could tell you that your problem is that you think a metaphysical text can possibly have a single interpretation. But then, I'm not in the business of telling people what to believe.



posted on Feb, 2 2011 @ 01:09 AM
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reply to post by dr_strangecraft
 


Actually the way I was taught is that this particular text has 72 distinct interpretations (which is in itself not to be taken literally) which can be applied. I'm very open to the idea of interpretating the text in an honest fashion.

What I am hostile to is the modern need (by Christians in particular) to take scripture and change the meaning in plain sight simply to try and 'circle around' the intellect (as I've seen it put in several places).

In this particular instance the idea being that god could of course send a flood (floods are only natural of course so its quite understandable), but how could it be that Noah gathered 2 of EVERY animal, well of course that sounds silly and so the lesson is taught that Noah didn't have to go all over the world collecting animals, that he only grabbed 2 of the closest thing nearest him and set off on his boat.

That concept is not what is written in the text, very clearly it is not. It states very clearly the animals will come to him, that two of every kind of bird, beast and insect would come, because God would tell them to. What's more the text goes on to explain how Noah didn't know how he would fit them all in there where so many, but that miraculously they all fit.

In my view the way that the original poster presented it (a way that feels like it was taught in a childs sunday school) is merely a way to quiten dissedence amongst inquisitive minds without fully exploring the actuality of the concept being presented, and worse it is plainly not what is written in the text.

Have faith, believe with all your heart. Don't hold back in fear because you think modern society may laugh at you, but don't make stuff up, don't pervert the message.

These texts provide many layers of meaning, but people are trained to not even look for them. Instead you get the innocently faithful being fed this kind of garbage, which they either accept or reject (with many educated people choosing to reject such out of hand). It is precisely because of this kind of concept warping of literal applications of the words (which aren't even actually in the book in question) being applied to holy lessons in a widespread manner (not just in the bible either) that so many have turned away from faith.

A miracle is not supposed to make sense, that's what makes it a miracle. In this case (and in many others) attempting to make it fit into an acceptable non-mystical idea in order to make people accept it only causes the point to be lost along the way.

The truth is you can bend anything in loops if you want, but if you take a valuable lesson for personal development and twist it so that blind faith is being cultivated in its place, then essentially you end up in the same place as the athiestic blind faith of scientific belief (or disbelief to get back on topic), its certainly as hollow and unappealing.

There are several major realities accepted by the people of this world and they clash, though slowly they are being subverted into this big huge conjoined mess, through mass media and through deliberate programming in the education systems (in which I include the religious dogmas as taught to the layman).

Before education and after education waits religion, it is the first and final trap, but the power of belief (of faith) is incredible and its one which our masters learnt to harness long ago.

Really it isn't for me to tell anyone what to believe, all I can say is don't be a slave, everyone can free themselves to find their god in their own reality, don't let anyone else get in your way, but do make sure you actually go looking.
edit on 2-2-2011 by maskfan because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 2 2011 @ 12:42 PM
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The concept of belief also falls well outside of the realm of the belief in the paranormal.

For example simply look at successful people vs unsuccessful people.
A very common trait amongst the unsuccessful is the lack of confidence in one's self and/or low self esteem.
A self defeating personality.

There is a book entitled "Think and Grow Rich" by Napoleon Hill. Where Andrew Carnegie hired a Hill, a journalist to interview the worlds most successful self made millionaire industrialists of the 20th century and write the aforementioned book about how they achieved their wealth.

in summary: The common element amongst these successful achievers was fundamentally the belief in one's self to achieve.

In fact, one of the quotes from the book was....

"Whatever the mind can conceive and believe, it can achieve....."

So belief in one's ability to accomplish something, whatever it may be, is the fundamental essence of creation and invention.



posted on Feb, 2 2011 @ 12:45 PM
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posted on Feb, 3 2011 @ 10:32 AM
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Here's a Huffpo article on the role of psychology in the people Jesus heals in the Gospels: Jesus the Healer



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