Definetly not a Christian nation now

I've never done a thread in contrast to another thread before.
First time for everything I guess.

So ,,, Arn't we just so much better off ? Now that we've tossed God out of the classroom? Outlawed The Ten Commandments from the court buildings. No! We're not a Christian nation now. Never we're a Christian nation ?
That's highly debatable at best. I know there was a time when Christianity was most definetly the dominant belief
for all Americans. All the way up to 1963 and for a little while after that.

Let's see about 1963. Oh of course, that was the year Kennedy was gunned down on national T.V. in front of God and everybody else. What else though? That was the year prayer in school was outlawed. Hmmm. After that?
More assassinations and more and more and more and more corruption. Then we outlawed The Ten Commandments and well clearly, you can't help but see the pattern I'm speaking of here. Morality has declined.

So now it's for sure as hell has bells. We are a nation without The Father, The Son and The Holy Ghost.
I want someone to tell me exactly what is a DIRGE ? Then tell me why we may soon be singing them in the dark? Some people say this is a song written about Buddy Holly. The man who sings it, doesn't make that claim.

Seems to me a prophetic funeral hymn for our great nation, America, would be discription spot on.

We are in deep deep doo doo my people. That is something we all agree upon. So why? No great empire is ever
conquered from outside, until it is weakened from with'in.
Follow the lyrics closely and see what I'm talking about.

Morality hasn't gone downhill. It's just that some forms of immorality are out in the open now, and others have shifted to different types of immorality.

reply to post by gnosticquasar


The issue of the change in morality is certainly up for debate. My great grandmother used to talk about how common it was in her time for girls to get married at a young age (somewhere around 8-12) with older men in order to have as many children as possible to pass on the bloodline. Nowadays, if two 17 year olds have sex, the male can get 10+ years in prison for statutory rape. On the flip side, black folk and women used to have barely any rights, with white folk doing their best to keep it that way. Now, they have more rights than white folk and continue to ask for more.

It is all in the eye of the beholder.

Originally posted by randyvs
So ,,, Arn't we just so much better off ? Now that we've tossed God out of the classroom?

There's a difference in saying that can be no mandated prayer led by teacher, and "tossing god out of the classroom." If you mean getting tossed out of the cirriculum, you might want to talk to my younger sister, who had to read genesis as part of an english Lit project (

Outlawed The Ten Commandments from the court buildings.

Well, considering that only three of the ten commandments are actually reflected in US law? Murder, theft, and perjury?

No! We're not a Christian nation now. Never we're a Christian nation ?

What?

That's highly debatable at best. I know there was a time when Christianity was most definetly the dominant belief
for all Americans. All the way up to 1963 and for a little while after that.

Oh, it still is. However, the religion does not get to set policy. The reason is simple; though Christians are the dominant religion in this country, there are a lot of us who do not cleave to the Christian faith. According to US law, we deserve equal protection under the law and equal access to government; which means that this cannot be a "Christian" nation. Even if it were, whose Christianity would it be? Roman Catholicism? Baptism? Calvinism (now there's a scary thought)?

Let's see about 1963. Oh of course, that was the year Kennedy was gunned down on national T.V. in front of God and everybody else. What else though? That was the year prayer in school was outlawed. Hmmm. After that?
More assassinations and more and more and more and more corruption. Then we outlawed The Ten Commandments and well clearly, you can't help but see the pattern I'm speaking of here. Morality has declined.

Has it, now? I'm sure you have supporting evidence, including yearly measures of average morality from, oh let's say 1900 onward?

So now it's for sure as hell has bells. We are a nation without The Father, The Son and The Holy Ghost.
I want someone to tell me exactly what is a DIRGE ? Then tell me why we may soon be singing them in the dark? Some people say this is a song written about Buddy Holly. The man who sings it, doesn't make that claim.

...Say what?

Seems to me a prophetic funeral hymn for our great nation, America, would be discription spot on.

'Cause we have something against putting Pat Robertson in charge?

We are in deep deep doo doo my people. That is something we all agree upon. So why? No great empire is ever
conquered from outside, until it is weakened from with'in.

And incidentally that weakness has always come about either from economic troubles, or having too many powerful people trying to assume control. In some cases, such as the Macedonian and Mongol empire, the whole premise of the empire stopped working hte moment the wars of conquest haltered, sapping inertia from the nation.

reply to post by SonicInfinity


Okay but what about the question of a dirge? Can you tell me what a dirge is?

I should prolly mention that I am all for separation of church and state of course.

Walking fox
Ok you hit me below the belt with that Pat Robertson crap lil lady.


:

you are way off my friend. morals do NOT start with religion.

If you look even deeper into history you would find religion has one HELLUVA bloody past.

Look at the causes of wars today...

Originally posted by randyvs
No! We're not a Christian nation now. Never we're a Christian nation ?
That's highly debatable at best. I know there was a time when Christianity was most definetly the dominant belief
for all Americans. All the way up to 1963 and for a little while after that.

I never consider any country which has premarital sex culture to be a christian nation at all, because it's fornication. Believe what you want but when the entire country is fornicating (including yourself perhaps), it's unchristian.

Unfortunantly because this is a nation of various perspectives, opposing views, etc. of course we were going to fall apart eventually. And I don't think it is because we go rid of christinity, it is because we have gotten rid of commonality. What I mean by that is, back when it was a christian america, people we expected to go by christian beliefs and goals. Where as now, people are asking in what direction is this country going? What beliefs and goals does all it's citizens hold dear?

If america were to come up with a non religious belief and goal system. A set of morals (not just law) everyone has to go by. Well then we might be able to clean up.

America is a diverse nation and our diversity is what is tearing us apart.

Originally posted by furzball
America is a diverse nation and our diversity is what is tearing us apart.

No, what's tearing us apart is a small but loud cluster of people who are frightened by the notion of people who are different from themselves. Folks such as - guessing from this post - yourself, who believe that the only way to success is for everyone to become perfectly homogenized, no doubt to a standard modeled entirely off yourself. These folks stoke fear of the "other" in an effort to lead others into a paroxysm of panic and turn against said "others."

One of my favorite goofy movies has this to say to such people;

According to Cocteau's plan, I'm the enemy, 'cause I like to think, I like to read. I'm into freedom of speech, and freedom of choice. I'm the kinda guy that likes to sit in a greasy spoon and wonder, "Gee, should I have the T-bone steak or the jumbo rack of barbecue ribs with the side-order of gravy fries?" I want high cholesterol! I wanna eat bacon, and butter, and buckets of cheese, okay?! I wanna smoke a Cuban cigar the size of Cincinnati in the non-smoking section! I wanna run naked through the street, with green Jell-O all over my body, reading Playboy magazine. Why? Because I suddenly may feel the need to, okay, pal?

and

I've seen the future. You know what it is? It's a 47-year-old virgin, sitting around in his beige pajamas, drinking a banana-broccoli shake, singing, "I'm an Oscar Meyer wiener."

Reply to post by tempesillest

I mostly agree with you in what you said. However, I believe that religion (depending on which ones) could fuel a desire strengthen someone's morals. It's all in how you perceive it. Also, you are right...religion has caused tons of wars. But it was all in how they saw them. If you think someone else's religion is a threat to you...then it is. Simple as that. But all of this to no offense to you of course, I was only trying to make a point.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

reply to post by randyvs

I want someone to tell me exactly what is a DIRGE ? Then tell me why we may soon be singing them in the dark?

A sombre song of mourning or grief... and yes, that song is fitting, though it makes me think not of the loss of Religion (though maybe that is a part of it) but of the loss of a time period that is remembered fondly... America changed in the 60's and ""ma and apple pie" became old fashioned along with "traditional family" while "progress" became something that didn't have room or attach importance to keeping them alive. There is a reason why many yearn for a simpler time or place and many feel that much is missing in our modern, fast-paced, technologically advancing world...

Is it not a sign of the end times?

He who enlightens will find his way to higher ground because the Son-of-Man will always leave an exit door open for good people. Does not the Bible say that Elijah will turn people´s hearst good again before judgment?

So now he is here among us, my advice is go and find his teachings and you will never turn back.

ZOMG We don't all worship a zombie Jesus!!! STOP THE PRESSES

dirges: lament, burial hymm, funeral march.

A lone bagpipe played the woeful dirge

reply to post by randyvs


your halcyonic American ideal is romanticist fantasy. The more religion encroaches upon the American government system the worse it gets. And your American Pie lyrics aren't about what you think they are about.

Originally posted by tempesillest
you are way off my friend. morals do NOT start with religion.

If you look even deeper into history you would find religion has one HELLUVA bloody past.

Look at the causes of wars today...

That's funny I always thought war was caused by men. Quit trying to pass the buck. We are responsible for our own mayhem." If soldiers ever begin to think for themselves, there would be none left in the ranks".Ferdinand the Great. Even today there are to many who are willing to die because of rulers not leaders.

Lady Skady

A sombre song of mourning or grief... and yes, that song is fitting, though it makes me think not of the loss of Religion (though maybe that is a part of it) but of the loss of a time period that is remembered fondly... America changed in the 60's and ""ma and apple pie" became old fashioned along with "traditional family" while "progress" became something that didn't have room or attach importance to keeping them alive. There is a reason why many yearn for a simpler time or place and many feel that much is missing in our modern, fast-paced, technologically advancing world...

Ah Ha Excellent ! Lady you have absolutly astounded me. You almost have it all.

Ikema

dirges: lament, burial hymm, funeral march.

Thank you Ikema.


Ok so they we're singing dirges in the dark . Why ? Some one should be able to look at the words of the song and tell me why?

Originally posted by glome
reply to post by randyvs

 

your halcyonic American ideal is romanticist fantasy. The more religion encroaches upon the American government system the worse it gets. And your American Pie lyrics aren't about what you think they are about.

Oh it's not ? That's funny. You say that as if its because you say it isn't. Bare with me please. What has happened recently to the American dream? That piece of the American pie. A home and a family ?
We have most recently had to say good by to our piece of the American pie. I'm afraid you're nothing but wrong.

reply to post by TheWalkingFox

Oh, it still is. However, the religion does not get to set policy. The reason is simple; though Christians are the dominant religion in this country, there are a lot of us who do not cleave to the Christian faith. According to US law, we deserve equal protection under the law and equal access to government; which means that this cannot be a "Christian" nation. Even if it were, whose Christianity would it be? Roman Catholicism? Baptism? Calvinism (now there's a scary thought)?

As a Patriotic America Sovereign my America simply cannot ever have a sanctioned State religion, of any flavor! I will fight to the very death to prevent this from happening. Want a good look at a Nation with an official State religion? Look at Iran. We are a Nation of Laws, and we are a Nation of a Separation of Powers.
The Christian crowd, collectively and all inclusive, mean to impose some sort of theocracy, forcing everyone to bow down to Jesus whether they believe in Him or not. Indeed, the only true theocracies in the world today are Muslim countries, such as Iran and Saudi Arabia. In Islam, religion and government are one and the same thing, and it all hinges on force. Refuse to bend your knee to Allah, and to confess Muhammad as his prophet, and your head will be cut off.

Thomas Jefferson (1743-1826) is my favorite of the founders, and I will post just a few quotes Jefferson stated on Religion and State.

Supreme Court: Clause erects 'Wall of Separation'

In the words of Jefferson, the clause against establishment of religion by law was intended to erect 'a wall of separation' between church and state.
-- Hugo Black, Everson v. Board of Education (1947)

Say nothing of my religion. It is known to my god and myself alone.
-- Thomas Jefferson, in a letter to John Adams, 11 January 1817

Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- in Notes on the State of Virginia

From the dissensions among Sects themselves arise necessarily a right of choosing and necessity of deliberating to which we will conform. But if we choose for ourselves, we must allow others to choose also, and so reciprocally, this establishes religious liberty.
-- Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Religion, 1776. Papers

The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.
-- Thomas Jefferson, Notes on the State of Virginia, 1781-82

Millions of innocent men, women, and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch toward uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one-half the world fools and the other half hypocrites. To support roguery and error all over the earth.
-- Thomas Jefferson, Notes on the State of Virginia, 1781-82

No man shall be compelled to frequent or support any religious worship, place, or ministry whatsoever, nor shall be enforced, restrained, molested, or burthened in his body or goods, nor shall otherwise suffer, on account of his religious opinions or belief; but that all men shall be free to profess, and by argument to maintain, their opinions in matters of religion, and that the same shall in no wise diminish, enlarge, or affect their civil capacities.
-- Thomas Jefferson, Virginia Statute for Religious Freedom (1779), quoted from Merrill D Peterson, ed, Thomas Jefferson: Writings (1984), p. 347

I am for freedom of religion, & against all maneuvres to bring about a legal ascendancy of one sect over another.
-- Thomas Jefferson, letter to Elbridge Gerry, 1799
Quote Source

We are not now, nor have we ever been, a Christian Nation. And we never will be.

reply to post by autowrench

We are not now, nor have we ever been, a Christian Nation. And we never will be.

As I said, that's highly debatable at best. I suppose Walking Fox is right Chrristianity is dominant.