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Violently overthrowing governments leaves violent governments in charge.

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posted on Jan, 31 2011 @ 03:06 PM
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reply to post by beezzer
 


America and France are perfect examples proving you wrong. America especially had a very violent war over throwing the rule of the British..

Just depends on who leads it, the quality of the people behind it, and willingness of the citizens to embrace radical change.




posted on Jan, 31 2011 @ 03:37 PM
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I respect many of the posters in this thread and understand where they are coming from, but I have to agree with the OP. When speaking of the creation of this country, America, or the internal revolution of this country, one must be aware of the cost in bloodshed that was paid and the lasting effects it has had on our country. Out of this mentality of 'freedom by way of a bullet' has arose a culture of intolerance, hatred, war, ignorance and oppression, simply because the 'victim' has forgone his own wisdom in order to play the same hand that his 'oppressor' has played. It must be understood that once a hand is played, it cannot be taken back or altered in any way, shape or form. It is forever ingrained into the strategy of the players game.

Throughout history we can see that the greatest, most positive, and most effective changes to society have come at the hand of non-violent resistance movements. Example: Malcolm X was a powerful and great man, but his brash, non-tolerant and aggresive manner of seeking change would of never achieved equal rights for his people. Instead, it was MLK, and his non-violent resistance movement (which he learned from studying Gandhi), that awoke the masses to these peoples suffering. It was the guilty consciousness of the oppressors and bystanders that caused the change.

See this for yourself in your own life. Next time a friend does something you do not like, meet them with aggressiveness and hostility, then observe how your relationship changes. Yes, they may discontinue what it is you do not like, but notice the animosity and tension between you and your friend, and then decide if that was a wise choice to make.

Just my .02



posted on Jan, 31 2011 @ 03:38 PM
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reply to post by beezzer
 


I think you are 100% wrong!!! Sometimes violence is the only way! If the people have the #'s a current govt. only has one option... quell the revolution with violence, leaving the revolution with only one option, violence!

You heart is in the right place, but the logic is flawed!



posted on Jan, 31 2011 @ 03:40 PM
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Originally posted by LifeIsEnergy
I respect many of the posters in this thread and understand where they are coming from, but I have to agree with the OP. When speaking of the creation of this country, America, or the internal revolution of this country, one must be aware of the cost in bloodshed that was paid and the lasting effects it has had on our country. Out of this mentality of 'freedom by way of a bullet' has arose a culture of intolerance, hatred, war, ignorance and oppression, simply because the 'victim' has forgone his own wisdom in order to play the same hand that his 'oppressor' has played. It must be understood that once a hand is played, it cannot be taken back or altered in any way, shape or form. It is forever ingrained into the strategy of the players game.

Throughout history we can see that the greatest, most positive, and most effective changes to society have come at the hand of non-violent resistance movements. Example: Malcolm X was a powerful and great man, but his brash, non-tolerant and aggresive manner of seeking change would of never achieved equal rights for his people. Instead, it was MLK, and his non-violent resistance movement (which he learned from studying Gandhi), that awoke the masses to these peoples suffering. It was the guilty consciousness of the oppressors and bystanders that caused the change.

See this for yourself in your own life. Next time a friend does something you do not like, meet them with aggressiveness and hostility, then observe how your relationship changes. Yes, they may discontinue what it is you do not like, but notice the animosity and tension between you and your friend, and then decide if that was a wise choice to make.

Just my .02


Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

This individual would be relegated to the woodpile by those who founded this country but they would most certainly allow his opinion to be shared.
edit on 31-1-2011 by bozzchem because: (no reason given)

edit on 31-1-2011 by bozzchem because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 31 2011 @ 04:23 PM
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reply to post by LifeIsEnergy
 




When speaking of the creation of this country, America, or the internal revolution of this country, one must be aware of the cost in bloodshed that was paid and the lasting effects it has had on our country.


Absolutely! However, you should know, that it is Human nature to fight for belief. I know I know, some weak hearted people will gasp at such a thought, but it's true.. we are a warring species. I for one am very grateful for those men (and women) who have died in the past defending our country, our rights and the future of our people, just as I am grateful for those that do so today. Without their violence and willingness to die and kill, we would not be in, regardless of how much we bitch about it, the greatest and most free country in the World.



Out of this mentality of 'freedom by way of a bullet' has arose a culture of intolerance, hatred, war, ignorance and oppression, simply because the 'victim' has forgone his own wisdom in order to play the same hand that his 'oppressor' has played.


Completely ignorant. You sir speak like someone that grew up in a pampered western nation where you didn't have to fight for anything, it was given to you. When you are raised in a country without our liberties and experience real hardship, I might find that opinion worth more. It's difficult to understand and accept violence when you've been sheltered.



See this for yourself in your own life. Next time a friend does something you do not like, meet them with aggressiveness and hostility, then observe how your relationship changes.


Misunderstanding the issue completely.
Humans interact at different social levels, personal levels require different etiquette than say, National social interaction.



posted on Jan, 31 2011 @ 04:28 PM
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reply to post by bozzchem
 


So then I take it you are in full support of a violent revolution, and are so because you idolize this country's 'founders'? Ok, I understand, you refuse to think things through for yourself and instead put all belief and faith in ideologies of the 1700's. Be careful my friend, and remember your voice and words are more powerful than your rifle. History has, and will continue to, prove this as true.

Easy.



posted on Jan, 31 2011 @ 04:36 PM
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Originally posted by LifeIsEnergy
reply to post by bozzchem
 


------Ok, I understand, you refuse to think things through for yourself and instead put all belief and faith in ideologies of the 1700's.------


I'll bite, oh enlightened one who has thought things through for yourself.

How in the hell are you going to get enough people to join together in the 21st century to peacefully overthrow this tyrannical government?!

As long as the bread and circuses (welfare checks and tele) are functioning, there's no way in hell!!!!

( though I'm certainly open for suggestions
)



...btw, this would be nothing like the 17th century.

Did you read what I wrote?? You get people from all different communities, storming their centralized government offices from every which direction. Not a flank or two of men going at it, but a decentralized mass of people focusing in on the places that matter. It doesn't have to be violent, but would likely end that way initially. I don't like it, and nobody much does outside of the psychopaths, but it must be done.

Prove me wrong. Tell me what other out we have?
edit on 31-1-2011 by unityemissions because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 31 2011 @ 04:50 PM
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reply to post by Rockpuck
 

Sheltered? How many knife or bullet wounds do you have? How many people have you wounded or killed in battles or fights to protect yourself and/or others?

Do not judge or try and define me or my life experience, as I will not do that to you, for I know nothing about you. That is ignorance. One might say that a person chooses this path (non-violent) out of fear or ignorance, but only because they do not know the wisdom and experience behind it. No one is saying do not protect yourself or fight for yourself when faced with the threat of death or enslavement. No one is saying it is wrong to kill someone in defense when they are trying to kill you. But this shall be the last, not the first nor the second, means of action.

PS. Be careful when speaking of partaking in violent actions people, your 'enemies' may be listening and watching to your every move. A wise man will understand the Art of War and cautiously proceed towards victory, a fool will jump head first into war and quickly meet his demise.

Real talk.



posted on Jan, 31 2011 @ 04:54 PM
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post removed because the user has no concept of manners

Click here for more information.



posted on Jan, 31 2011 @ 05:02 PM
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reply to post by unityemissions
 


Please, enough with the cynical and childish labeling, respect is giving so please return it the same. Yes, I did read your post and it was partially the reason I posted to this thread. I respect and understand your point of view, but I do disagree with it and have giving a few examples of why.

"How in the hell are you going to get enough people to join together in the 21st century to peacefully overthrow this tyrannical government?! "

The same way as you would gather the people for a violent overthrow.
In fact, much more easily as you are not asking people to bear arms and harm others, but rather just to simply resist the oppressors systems that empower him. I cannot believe more of you, who are so passionate about revolution and change, have not studied deeper into some of the most powerful and influential revolutionary movements of the past century. Nelson Mandela, Gandhi, MLK... anyone?


ETA: Woman? LOL. Enough with the cheap shots buddy. If being a man to you is ignoring your intellect, picking up a rifle and loathing in your anger and hatred, than I am not a man by your standards and that is fine by me. I gave that life up years ago.

What is a man if he cannot discuss difficult issues without becoming angry and zealous? Obviously you are far to caught up in your hostility and anger to understand, insofar as being able to fix, these difficult problems. That takes a clear mind, one rid of all distractions you so vividly display.
edit on 31-1-2011 by LifeIsEnergy because: (no reason given)

edit on 31-1-2011 by LifeIsEnergy because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 31 2011 @ 05:05 PM
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Originally posted by LifeIsEnergy
reply to post by unityemissions
 


The same way as you would gather the people for a violent overthrow.
In fact, much more easily as you are not asking people to bear arms and harm others, but rather just to simply resist the oppressors systems that empower him. I cannot believe more of you, who are so passionate about revolution and change, have not studied deeper into some of the most powerful and influential revolutionary movements of the past century. Nelson Mandela, Gandhi, MLK... anyone?


Allright, so you have an oppressive, tyrannical government....

And you're trying to tell me that if people merely organize, and pronounce their freedom, that things will get better. That things will change in the least.

FIrst, let's see all the differences from Gandhi's time, to now......

We have television....

That's a huge control mechanism....

We have the consolidation of corporations into MSM...

That's happened since MLK or Nelson Mandela....

So.... we're not even in the same world...

I ask you again, how in the hell are you going to get these people to make a dent of difference to a tyrannical government which will use force, and has at least 70% totally brainwashed, without willing to use force ourselves??
edit on 31-1-2011 by unityemissions because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 31 2011 @ 05:29 PM
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reply to post by Rockpuck
 


Counterpoint: The American and French Republics are also mass murder machines, directly responsible for millions of deaths and several genocides across the globe.



posted on Jan, 31 2011 @ 05:59 PM
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Originally posted by unityemissions

Originally posted by RRokkyy

Originally posted by unityemissions

Nothing much will change until we go at it with these bastards.


There is no WE.
The NWO eliminated the WE.


Quit empowering these illusions many hold.

[snip] THE CONCEPT OF THE NWO.

Own your perceptions of reality. Own your evil and use it WISELY!!!


Thats a non answer.
What "WE" are you talking about???


edit on 31/1/11 by masqua because: Removed censor circumvention in the quote



posted on Jan, 31 2011 @ 06:43 PM
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As JFK put it "A government that makes peaceful revolution impossible, makes forceful revolution inevitable."

Paraphrased.

S&F OP



posted on Jan, 31 2011 @ 06:47 PM
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reply to post by RRokkyy
 


WTF is your deal??

If YOU have no concept of we, then gtf out of here.

I DO AND MANY MORE...

WE ARE THE PEOPLE DAMMIT, AND WE WILL BE HEARD



posted on Jan, 31 2011 @ 07:00 PM
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reply to post by LifeIsEnergy
 


Thank you! This proved everything I believed to be true.



posted on Jan, 31 2011 @ 07:06 PM
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Originally posted by SmedleyBurlap
reply to post by Rockpuck
 


Counterpoint: The American and French Republics are also mass murder machines, directly responsible for millions of deaths and several genocides across the globe.


And? What does this have to do with me? All powerful countries dominate other countries. The fact that for 200 years America has lived a life of comfort thanks to our violent revolution.

You can also add Ireland to the mix as well. An effective campaign of violence.



posted on Jan, 31 2011 @ 07:28 PM
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reply to post by beezzer
 

Excellent point OP, S&F.

I cannot think of any internal revolution in history that did not result in a tyranny, whether short- or long-term.

Those who think violent revolution is the way out ought to think long and hard about this track record.

The world will never change until we change ourselves. Each of us as individuals must recognize our own feelings of hatred, which we project onto others as a way of ignoring in ourselves. Only by each person realizing, by capturing our own personal moments of hatred, that deep within each soul is a potential Hitler, can we develop the requisite humility to change the world.

Until people do this, change of governments will always, without exception, be to a greater or lesser degree a case of "Meet the new boss, same as the old boss."



posted on Jan, 31 2011 @ 07:54 PM
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reply to post by unityemissions
 


I see your reasoning, but then again, with that mindset we should be in utopia. It did not fully work as we wished. We had error, and what the OP is purposing, is that the error derived from the path they chose in the scenario.



posted on Jan, 31 2011 @ 07:54 PM
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reply to post by LifeIsEnergy
 


I just wanted to say I absolutely love your avatar! I wish those four gents were running this country.

In regards to your post, I agree overall and I honestly hope that a peaceful revolution will be possible. However, if violence becomes a necessary entity to ensure my liberties bring it on!



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