Scientologists belive in a evil alien called Xenu

Originally posted by buddhasystem

Originally posted by tom502

Originally posted by buddhasystem
reply to post by tom502

 

Tom,

the whole framework of Scientology, if I remember correctly, is based on a certain narrative, which at one point includes billions of beings kept and then killed here on planet Earth. Is that roughly correct?

If it is, then Xenu is a key figure in all that. Look, Devil is not the center figure in the Bible, but it is an integral part of religion. By same token, even if you try to downplay the importance of Xenu (because it's a laughable notion imho), that Xenu is still part and parcel of Scientology.

No, it's not a part of it at all. There are many Scientology books available, and they never mention this. Scientology is not based on a fairy tale or story, it's very simple and the books explain it. It never mentions Xenu or any story.

So, you claim that the information on Xenu is a fabrication?

If so, please correct my understanding of Scientology. Where did thetans travel from, to planet Teagook (Earth), and for what reason? Who was setting the nuclear charges to inflict that terrible death on that 100 billion poor souls? OK, Xenu is innocent, mayby. Who dunnit?

not having the correct OT level will get you pneumonia if you take short cuts in the teachings ,
and lack of OT level (or money) will yield in not knowing about xenu,

"MAKE MONEY. MAKE MORE MONEY. MAKE OTHER PEOPLE PRODUCE SO AS TO MAKE MORE MONEY." - L. Ron Hubbard, Hubbard Communications Office Policy Letter, 9 March 1972, MS OEC 384

I'm surprised that noone has mentioned Jack Parsons yet in this thread. He was a genius who started the Jet Prorpulsion Lab/jack parsons lab, which later led to NASA and the US' main missile development authority. JP was a high level occultist tied into operation paperclip, who was great at making rockets and other propulsion systems, designed to either get to outer space or deliver payloads of mass destruction. Just one guy who LRH was chummy with.

So where would a guy get his influence on his subject matter if he himself wasn't disturbed or insane? Like was posted before, OTO, golden dawn society, vril society, nazis?

LRH was a megalomaniac, maybe he had a vision... I doubt it. I think it was more a gimmick to get people to think his way, and to reap tons of cash. I may be wrong.

I actually read all the high OT level documents, without paying for them...they're a giant letdown. Just more of the same stuff paraphrased

reply to post by dfens


who killed parsons

its one thing thats always bothered me ,

Originally posted by tom502Fact is, if you joined the Church, or just went on a study for yourself, you simply will not hear of any Xenu, because, even if it's mention is on an old L Ron tape, that's the only place you'll hear it, and you won't hear it officially, because the system of the Scienology is a gradient system, and if you haven't gone through the previous one's, you won't be ready for the higher ones.

disagree if you will with Christianity, but there are no secret/hidden doctrines and no 'levels'. everyone works from the same Bible. it's about as open as a faith/belief system can be.

A religion based upon the teachings from a Sci-Fi writer. Genius!

en.wikipedia.org...

To me, when looking into it, it's all about power, control and £$ !

Originally posted by JonoEnglish
A religion based upon the teachings from a Sci-Fi writer. Genius!

To me, when looking into it, it's all about power, control and £$ !

Now...think about who wrote the bible...or the Koran.

As crazy as scientology is, and as money hungry as their church is, if you look at it objectively...the difference to other religions isn't that large.

Aliens flying DC10s through space vs talking snakes...I'd call that a draw

Originally posted by MrXYZ

Originally posted by JonoEnglish
A religion based upon the teachings from a Sci-Fi writer. Genius!

To me, when looking into it, it's all about power, control and £$ !

Now...think about who wrote the bible...or the Koran.

As crazy as scientology is, and as money hungry as their church is, if you look at it objectively...the difference to other religions isn't that large.

Aliens flying DC10s through space vs talking snakes...I'd call that a draw

I so agree with you there.

I'd be curious to see some ex-Freezone detractors? Anyone know?
Pre Miscaviage detractors are mostly rare. The downfall occured when Hubbard passed on, and Miscaviage took over and altered the books and "teachings".

Originally posted by tom502
I'd be curious to see some ex-Freezone detractors? Anyone know?
Pre Miscaviage detractors are mostly rare. The downfall occured when Hubbard passed on, and Miscaviage took over and altered the books and "teachings".

So was it Miscaviage who fabricated Xenu? If not Xenu, who nuked the 100 billion citizens ferried to Earth on many, many DC-8s?

Originally posted by tom502
I'd be curious to see some ex-Freezone detractors? Anyone know?
Pre Miscaviage detractors are mostly rare. The downfall occured when Hubbard passed on, and Miscaviage took over and altered the books and "teachings".

They're still using e-meters which are beyond any doubt pseudo-science

On the plus side, they're not associated with the COS...but their entire belief is just as much nonsense as scientology.

you must have tons of time on your hand. Well done though. Your mind works in crazy ways

Originally posted by true-life
you must have tons of time on your hand. Well done though. Your mind works in crazy ways

I had a good friend joining those scammers. Learning everything I could about it was the only way to rip him out of it, he abandoned pretty much all his friends after joining the COS.

I managed to plant so much doubt in him, and made him ask the church so many uncomfortable questions, they declared him a "supressive person"

He saw reason in the end and is now an atheist like me. I also managed to turn a moderate Muslim into an atheist simply by showing him how science debunks a ton. Welcome to the 21st century, the age of reason...at least I hope it'll be the age of reason

You know, my six year old thought that basing her religious beliefs on Avatar the Last Airbender was a good idea.

But at least she knew it was silly.

Originally posted by buddhasystem
So was it Miscaviage who fabricated Xenu? If not Xenu, who nuked the 100 billion citizens ferried to Earth on many, many DC-8s?

Here is Margery Wakefield's account of the "Xenu Revelation", she mentions papers handwritten by Hubbard:

www.cs.cmu.edu...

Now I was ready for the great leap into the Unknown. I was ready for OT 3, on which I would learn the secret of the universe which had eluded Man for millions of years.

I had a friend, an older man named Les, who volunteered to come with me during my first day on OT 3 and coach me on the materials. We drove together to the AO.

"Nervous?" he asked, lighting a cigarette.

"Yeah, a little. I've only been waiting ten years to do this level," I answered.

"Well, just think, in another hour or so, you will know the great secret. You will be one of us." He winked at me.

At the AO, I first had to find the locked room where the materials for OT 3 were kept, a small closet just across from the OT 3 course-room.

I knocked on the door. A slim Sea Org member unlocked the door to let me in, then quickly locked the door behind me. I had to unlock my briefcase and show him that it was empty. He then handed me a brown envelope containing the OT 3 materials. I locked this envelope in the briefcase which was leashed to my arm. He checked to make sure that the briefcase was actually locked. Then he let me out of that room, and locked the door behind me.

He escorted me across the hall and I knocked on the door of the OT 3 classroom. The door was unlocked to let me in, then locked again behind me. I am quite sure that not even the Pentagon has better security than Scientology.

Les was saving me a seat in the classroom. I sat down, unlocked my briefcase and pulled out the treasured envelope. Smiling at Les, I opened the envelope and pulled out several pages which were copies of pages handwritten by Hubbard. I began to read.

The head of the Galactic Federation (76 planets around larger stars visible from here) (founded 95,000,000 years ago, very space opera) solved overpopulation (250 billion or so per planet, 178 billion on average) by mass implanting. He caused people to be brought to Teegeeack (Earth) and put an H-bomb on the principal volcanos (Incident II) and then the Pacific area ones were taken in boxes to Hawaii and the Atlantic ones to Las Palmas and there "packaged."

His name was Xenu. He used renegades....

.....
I was feeling very strange. I had been programmed under hypnosis for ten years to accept as gospel everything said or written by Hubbard. I had paid thousands of dollars to gain access to the privileged OT 3 material. I was programmed to believe. But the materials were too absurd to be believed. ...

So if that account is to be believed, it sounds like the papers she saw regarding Xenu were in Hubbard's own handwriting.

reply to post by Vandalour

Yep, crazy aint it? What started as a bad science fiction story became a religious cult. Beware the cultists, even if they bare gifts.

He strung people along for so long that eventually he had to come up with a "top" level to make as a carrot.

And apparently took out his stupidest short story and decided that was gonna be it.

reply to post by MrXYZ

Pot meets kettle

Well what are you try'in to say here Mr xyz ?
Even you should admit, there's a difference, between something that may sound miraculous. When compared to something that is just absolutly hokey and dreamed up by a science fiction writer. please show me there is some hope for common ground here.

Originally posted by randyvs
reply to post by MrXYZ

 

Pot meets kettle

Well what are you try'in to say here Mr xyz ?

Even you should admit, there's a difference, between something that may sound miraculous. When compared to something that is just absolutly hokey and dreamed up by a science fiction writer. please show me there is some hope for common ground here.

edit on 1-2-2011 by randyvs because: (no reason given)

Despite not being addressed to me I think I shall respond with a question or two.

Why is this any more hokey than any other religion ?
Maybe because it's newer ?
Or it isn't as powerful ?
Doesn't have as many adherents ?

As Heinlein once said "One mans religion is another mans belly laugh."

Remember if one man claims he hears voices in his head, we call him crazy. When many claim it, we call it religion.

reply to post by randyvs


Well, I'd equal the DC-8s of scientology with the arch holding "2 of each kind". The alien Xenu throwing nuclear bobs into volcanos and a talking snake are similar on the craziness scale. And don't get me started on Hindu gods, or the fact that someone claimed to be pregnant without sex

The only common ground I can offer you is that I'm 100% convinced that the Christian (and Muslim) churches are far less evil than the COS. At least they allow you to believe without charging you for "information" to the point where people give up their entire life savings.

But all of that obviously assumes you're crazy enough to take things literally. I have no problem whatsoever if people take it as "moral guidelines"...but no matter which religion, if you claim things as true without providing objective evidence (as is the case with e-meters), I'm gonna call your claims crazy...especially if they completely contradict science.

So in short:

- Virgin births => hogwash
- E-meters => beyond hogwash...far far far beyond hogwash, I had a session
- Gods with elephant heads => you guessed it...hogwash
- Noah's arch => if you take the story literally and assume a global flood and 2 of each kind...hogwash
- Aliens throwing atom bombs into volcanos => lol
- Talking snakes => complete nonsense...biologically impossible, even if a snake could think
- Walking on water => nonsense
- Not using electricity on weekends because god says so => oh please...complete hogwash
- ...

But ok, I'll give you something...subjectively, I guess the scientology belief is slightly crazier. Doesn't validate Christianity/Islam in the least though, it's just a different kind of fiction...which isn't surprising given that one thing was made up 2000 years ago, while the other stems from a scifi writer of the 20th century. But don't forget, scientology had 2000 more years to come up with crazy stuff...huge advantage imo

Disclaimer: I have no issue with believers of any kind, as long as they don't try to pass hogwash as truths. Some of the non-literal interpretations are even good (thou shall not kill, etc.). Sadly scientology is destroying lives and brainwashing people more than any other religion I know...like I said, I had a friend who (briefly) joined them. Within a few months he changed completely and abandoned everyone, forcing me to rip him out of it. He'd lost almost all friends at that point. I think what did it for him in the end, apart from me telling him from a scientific standpoint what nonsense it all is, was that he saw how they treated me when I joined once. They HATE sceptics more than any other religion...and they kinda found out I'm a sceptic during one of the tests they made me do

PS: The most hilarious part is always when they start to question your life (having no clue about you) if you criticize them. I was asked if my parents abused me, and if that's why I'm so "angry"...all it took was me asking a few rational questions