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Chemtrail or Not to Chemtrail ....Over Washington Dulles International Airport... that is my questio

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posted on Jan, 31 2011 @ 11:09 AM
let me Add upon viewing these Con/Chemtrails I called a buddy of mine on duty in another part of the airport and asked him to verify what I was seeing. He later told me that while he was observing the sky lines from an aircraft envelope, he pointed them out to a pilot doing a walk around. he ask the pilot if he had ever seen contrails like that in a pattern ...... the pilot said he had not seen a pattern but that he had seen them run long.... my friend then expressed that he thought them to be Chemical Trails consisting of Aluminum and Barium .... the pilots response to that ....." they've been putting that stuff in the fuel for years"

my bud said the guy was young and felt he was talking out his arse

Is it possible that Con/Chemtrails are One & the Same

posted on Jan, 31 2011 @ 11:45 AM

Originally posted by spoonbender
The weather didn't change that day but this morning is all nice and grey over cast ....snow sky ?

Weather conditions at high altitude is what matters -- not on the ground. The correct conditions conducive to creating persistent contrails could exist at 30,000 feet, but not at 35,000 feet, or even at 32,0000 feet. That is to say, two planes could be visible in the sky at the same time, one at 30,000 and one at 35,000, and one may have a short contrail and the other could have a long contrail.

Originally posted by spoonbender
...But I have never seen Contrails that run horizon to horizon ...don't Contrails usually dissipate shortly following the aircraft ...?

No. That is a myth started relatively recently by chemtrail theorists. This idea probably caught on because it's "more fun" and "trendy/popular" to believe in conspiratorial explanations rather than in mundane explanations for things.

Since the very beginning of high-altitude flight, contrails have been known to be able to persist for hours under the proper conditions. I grew up near a rural are in the late 1960s and early 1970s, and the "farm report" on TV often talked about how contrails that lasted for hours were creating cloud cover.

edit on 1/31/2011 by Soylent Green Is People because: (no reason given)

posted on Jan, 31 2011 @ 11:49 AM
reply to post by spoonbender

Yes....the pilot was pulling your buddy's leg.

Shame....but, lots of pilots joke like that. Keep asking.....and WHY rely on what your "buddy" says?? WHY NOT ASK yourself?

Oh, the photos? Normal contrails.

Ask a pilot to see his "Enroute Chart". Tell him you want to see his Jeppesen High 7/8 Chart. For the Washington area. It will show the Jet Airways that exist overhead the IAD airport.

(BTW...I am a pilot....retired airline. +23 years at a major. My old company is about to merge with United). AND...I'm here in your area. Sitting at a coffee shop, actually right now...Caribou Coffee, in Crystal City.

I happen to know what I'm talking about, no lies, and no jokes, because there are already enough idiotic claims to go around, and gullible people take them all too seriously.


BTW..... you can see an example online too. NOT Jeppesen, because of their copyrights, but the Government-issued Charts.

Go here:

Then, either type in KIAD (the ICAO code for Dulles Airport) or hover the mouse over the "Charts" icon, with the globe, and pull from that drop-down menu. You want the "Enroute High" charts, remember. (On 'skyvector' it is called the "H-12"). Those are for all flights above 18,000 feet, and will be what all flights cruising by IAD will be referencing to. I've flown that many times....EWR/IAH, EWR/MSY, JFK/DFW, etc, etc.

You can see all the Jet Routes that pass over the Armel VOR (AML).

And also ones that just go by, not associated with AML...J-75, J-48 for example. See how they are nearly parallel? friggin' work at the airport, you have every opportunity to deny ignorance, and increase your knowledge and understanding. No excuses......

edit on 31 January 2011 by weedwhacker because: (no reason given)

posted on Jan, 31 2011 @ 12:00 PM
Yep, lots of flights up the east coast, that whole area probably has more air traffic than anyplace on earth. And then a lot going up the east coast too is heading to Europe

posted on Jan, 31 2011 @ 12:09 PM
I live in Dayton, OH and was happy to wake up to blue skies for once on Sunday. I said to myself "they" won't let this last long.

Sure enough around 11 am to the last time I checked at 6pm there were at list 4 planes spraying the crap out the place. Making the classic X's and #' signs. Makes me so angry.

I work almost in Cincy and driving all the way here this morning the were still at it. This was the first time I witnessed the arc Chemtails.

They are predicting a horrible ice storm here over the next 3 days. Coincidence? Who knows.

posted on Jan, 31 2011 @ 02:50 PM
reply to post by spoonbender

The only place to "learn" that contrails cannot last and anything that does is a "chemtrail" is "chemtrail" websites. Everyone else knows about clouds, which like a contrail, are water and dirty air. Clouds last for more than a few minutes, right?
The conditions on the ground do not matter to the conditions at flight altitude. The air at flight altitudes is much colder; even over deserts flight altitude will be many tens of degrees below 0. And the wind will can be much faster and blowing in different directions.
The fact that contrails were persisting one day and the sky was overcast is normal, and a way contrails can be used for weather forecasting. They will precede fronts, just like cirrus clouds do (the gray overcast would most likely cirrostratus). Given the large storms brewing in the west, weather is going to change. When they don't persist, it's probably going to be a clear sky the next day.
Really, "chemtrails" do not exist. There is over 80 years of science covering everything to do with contrails available on the web. There have been tests done at flight altitude, actually sampling a trail while still in the air and it's always been exhaust. If you see something that can't be explained, or someone does a test the same way with unusual findings you just might have a "chemtrail", but don't hold your breath. There hasn't been anything presented here or anywhere else that proves their existence.

posted on Jan, 31 2011 @ 05:57 PM

Originally posted by dplum517

I have seen many contrails that cross the horizon. No, they dont just have to dissipate quickly at all. Sometimes they hang around quite a while...

.....seriously firepilot

Contrails DO NOT go from horizon to horizon ever. Open your eyes man...

Why not?

I saw 1 jsut a couple of days ago - probably a flight from Brisbane to Christchurch or Wellington with a fabulous contrail across the entire sky as viewed from the central North Island of New Zealand.

posted on Jan, 31 2011 @ 06:04 PM

Originally posted by kingkool
I live in Dayton, OH and was happy to wake up to blue skies for once on Sunday. I said to myself "they" won't let this last long.

Sure enough around 11 am to the last time I checked at 6pm there were at list 4 planes spraying the crap out the place. Making the classic X's and #' signs. Makes me so angry.

Everything you need to know about "X"'s and "#"'s is here at Contrail Science

I work almost in Cincy and driving all the way here this morning the were still at it. This was the first time I witnessed the arc Chemtails.

They are predicting a horrible ice storm here over the next 3 days. Coincidence? Who knows.

Probably not - the air in front of a cold snap is often more conducive to contrail formation because it is cold and the relative humidity is getting higher.

So not coincidence, but completely normal, and even predictable - see post #17 in this page

posted on Jan, 31 2011 @ 06:39 PM
reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul

Wow. A new disinfo agent. Probably don't even know you are one either. Your contrailscience website is complete and total PROPAGANDA.
And since I know tools, I will not try and convince you. But that website is complete bullsh**. In case you didn't get that....

I see the "Xs" form all the time as well as grids and the planes come within 100s of feet of each other. They do this in a well thought out operation. Wake the hell up.

posted on Jan, 31 2011 @ 06:53 PM
Oh I know I'm one - you are not the first person to call me such and I consider it a badge of honour - it means I do think for myself, do understand what evidence is, and do have a smidgen of logic

Heck I even work for a national aviation authority! not in the America's or Europe tho.

Shrug - better people than you have tried to shoot down contrail science - which isn't actually "my" site - uncinus there has a standing invitation - show him that any of his info is incorrect and he will change it.

Oddly enough he's never had to actually do so ....yet....perhaps you will be the first??

Your response is typical of people who dont' like being confronted with well organised and presented objective evidence that they are wrong - most of hte posts on contrail science that say the same thing are from 1-posters - they have a wee tantrum, get asked to say what is actually incorrect....... and are never heard of again.

posted on Jan, 31 2011 @ 07:01 PM
Good illustration of how you can get crossing trails,

posted on Jan, 31 2011 @ 07:14 PM
reply to post by dplum517


Probably don't even know you are one either. Your contrailscience website is complete and total PROPAGANDA.

Proof?? Proof?? I ask again....where is your Proof??

Is the only "proof" you possess your uneducated, ill-informed opinion? Despite the thousands of pages of OTHER facts and science, all that corroborate what is posted by the gentleman who runs

ContrailScience is merely a ONE STOP SHOP that pulls together the same, solid verifiable science, from elsewhere and presents it clearly and concisely....ALONG WITH the nutjob "chem"-trail BS. To compare, side-by-side, and illustrate the complete idiocy of those "claims", from uneducated (probably sometimes) and totally criminal (because there is money to be made, by them, by preying on the gullible). Well, maybe not "criminal".....borderline ethical perhaps.

Kind of on the same level as those hucksters who sell electric "Ab-Toner? belts, that promise to give you six-pack abs, and flatten your tummy while you sleep, or other such nonsense. "Chem"-trail charlatans are all over, doing much the same thing....lying through their teeth. Some for profit. Some, just for kicks....because they are twisted little gits who enjoy having one on over people. Might be the acne medication affecting their brains, who knows???

edit on 31 January 2011 by weedwhacker because: (no reason given)

posted on Jan, 31 2011 @ 07:26 PM
I actually thought of this while I was cooking dinner (I don't know why). Can a "chemtrail" really go from horizon to horizon? Assuming it is something sprayed, not likely. Why not? Volume. Let me explain:

A person six feet tall at sea level will have a distance to the horizon of about 3 miles. Because the earth is a ball, the higher you go, the greater the distance. A pilot flying at 25,000 feet will have a distance to the horizon of 194 miles. (I'm using this figure because the source does).
Remembering that things far away, like a contrail at flight altitude is to you, look much smaller than they are. Look at a picture of a plane with supposed "chemtrails". The trails compared to the plane are really quite large.
Imagine the sheer amount of substance able to make a cloud-like object 194 miles or more longer.
How much water is in a cloud (assuming a mid-sized cumulus--the puffy white ones)? 550 tons. Can you think of anyway to make anything that big? A single cloud would need the equivalent of 50 tankers worth of water. A cloud 194 miles long need many fleets of planes to make just one contrail.
Detractors (chemtrailers) will say it's something added to the fuel. Things added to the fuel are done on a parts per million basis. This is diluted in the exhaust, then further diluted in the atmospheric water condensation, then further diluted by all the air in the entire atmosphere.
Are you following me here?
There is no substance that can be spread that far and diluted that much that is going to make any impact unless it's radioactive. Radioactivity is something that can't be hidden (and I'm sure would have been picked-up by the people at CaliforniaSkyWatch). Anything else would be spread so sparsely that it would be hard to even detect.
Too much volume to spray and too dilute to matter.....all in all an illogical, impossible way to delivery anything. The people who believe in "chemtrails" will give all kinds of reasons to bypass the logic, but without some kind of tests proving some kind of "chem-", they will never be able to prove they are real.

posted on Jan, 31 2011 @ 07:52 PM
reply to post by stars15k

that must have took some thinking. up until now, i beleived fully in chemtrails, but your post has made me have doubts

but, i wonder, couldnt what we be seeing in the sky, be very spread out? it could be incredibly thin, but spread out , which would make us think it to be so big. O.o
just a thought.

posted on Jan, 31 2011 @ 08:15 PM
Cloud is already quite difuse - the total volumes of atmosphere involved are just much, much bigger than people are used to thinking about.

At sea level the density of air is 1.2kg/m^3, or 0.75 lb/ft^3, decreasing to about 27% of that at 10,000m/33,000 feet.

A cloud say 1km in diameter and 50m thick on average has a volume of almost 40 million cubic metres.....

Most of us simply have no idea how massive the atmosphere is - even though we see it every day!

posted on Jan, 31 2011 @ 08:57 PM
reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul

You have not even come close to hearing from the last of me.
Well presented information my ass. My 4 year old daughter could do better.
None of you have proven anything. Not you, and not me. Thank god for me that I have a brain in my head. None of you can answer any specific questions and you simply reply with loads of crap information on meteorology and aviation. Not saying its not true but it kind of has nothing to do with a lot of key points. So keep up your disinfo campaign...its not working.

posted on Jan, 31 2011 @ 09:04 PM
I'm more than happy to have not heard the last from you - I quite enjoy showing up the chemtrail hoax.

I didn't notice you actually asking a question - you posted some pictures, and as far as I'm concerned you clearly implied that you thought they were part of some evil plot by someone to do something nasty*.

In reply I posted a link that gives a full and complete explaination of how geometric shapes can form from contrails in the upper atmosphere.

characterising that as inadequate pretty much tells me that you are not actually intersted in a rational explaination.

* - but you didn't say which particular variety of plot you think it is - whether chemical poisoning, or amplification of HAARP, or mind control, and whether by the NWO, international Communism/Jewry/Reptiloids, the US Govt in conjunction with NATO, etc.
edit on 31-1-2011 by Aloysius the Gaul because: crappy typing as usual

posted on Jan, 31 2011 @ 09:14 PM
reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul

And you obviously don't read the entire thread. I don't recall posting any pics.
Also, what you think "I clearly implied" is preposterous. I never said there is a diabolical plot to take us out or something. In fact, I have said the opposite.
And, I have not seen you post before so I don't expect you to have an understanding of the other posters on here and what has been said in previous threads.
Though the investigation is ongoing I still suspect it is an operation to affect the weather or change the climate to "their" will (geo-engineering). I have grown up around aviation and the military my entire life, so I have some common sense when it comes to such things. For a hobby, I watch the sky. So, I don't expect you to believe or see what I have seen. So, you haven't heard the last from me and good luck with life.
edit on 31-1-2011 by dplum517 because: (no reason given)

posted on Jan, 31 2011 @ 09:36 PM
My apologies - for some reason I thought you were the OP. Perhaps it is your strident ravings - after a while all chem-nuts start to sound the same - and you do not even have the advantage of having an original viewpoint in support of the hoax to set you apart.

As far as I can see the only question you asked was - can commercial aircraft leave long persistant contrails?

the answer is, of course, yes they can. There is a vast amount of evidence, from science, from observation, from photographs showing exactly that.

You choose to ignore it - OK - well that's your privilege - but then the rest of us have the privilege to consider you an idiot - that's what is called a "consequence".

You lay into Contrail Science without deigning to provide any evidence that anything on it is wrong - apparently all that is required for it to be wrong is that you disagree with it and label it propaganda.

As I said - Uncinus has a standing invitation - show him anythgni that is wrong and he will change it - you can't lose - if it is wrong and he doesnt' change it you will have solid evidence against him, and if he does change it you can claim a "victory" - the first one ever.

I'm going to stop being kind - my imagination can come up with only 1 reason why you don't take him up on it - and that is you have nothing to offer.

You see all us debunkers ARE actually allowed to hange our minds - we require evidence for it tho - if you provide verifiable evidence we will actually change our minds. In fact if the evidence is there, then our mindset actually REQUIRES us to change our minds! I know this concept is foreign to you because you do not think evidence is important.

But it is important to many of us - provide it and you wil have us all on your side!! Yes it really is that simple.

posted on Jan, 31 2011 @ 10:09 PM
reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul

Well you get your info from so that discounts alot, which also means I am done "debating" you.
Provide me a video of a Commercial jet leaving a horizon to horizon chemtrail from beginning to end. Not still pics, I want a video. No edits in the video and make sure we can tell which airliner it is. Do that, and I will shut the hell up.

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