The Most Puzzling Ancient Artifacts

Originally posted by zorgon

Originally posted by Harte
You misuse the word "civilization" here, Zorgy, and you know this.
Harte

No I don't

Dwarka, India 12,000 Year Old City of Lord Krishna Found
www.abovetopsecret.com...

5200 year old city found, at most:

The city was built by Vishwakarma on the order of Lord Krishna. Land was reclaimed from the sea near the western shores of Saurashtra. A city was planned and built here. Dwarka was a planned city, on the banks of Gomati River. This city was also known as Dvaramati, Dvaravati and Kushsthali. It had six well-organized sectors, residential and commercial zones, wide roads, plazas, palaces and many public utilities. A hall called "Sudharma Sabha" was built to hold public meetings. The city also boasted having the possession of a good sea harbour. The city had 700,000 palaces made of gold, silver and other precious stones. Each one of Lord Krishna's 16108 wives had her own palace. Besides this, the city had beautiful gardens filled with flowers of all seasons and beautiful lakes.

[edit] Submersion into the SeaAfter Krishna left the earth for Vaikunta,about 36 years after the Mahabharat War (3138 BC), and the major Yadava leaders were killed in disputes among themselves, Arjuna went to Dwarka to bring Krishna's grandsons and the Yadava wives to Hastinapur, to safety. After Arjuna left Dwarka, it was submerged into the sea. Following is the account given by Arjuna, found in the Mahabharata:

...imposed on it by nature. The sea rushed into the city. It coursed through the streets of the beautiful city. The sea covered up everything in the city. I saw the beautiful buildings becoming submerged one by one. In a matter of a few moments it was all over. The sea had now become as placid as a lake. There was no trace of the city. Dwaraka was just a name; just a memory.
The Vishnu Purana also mentions the submersion of Dwarka, stating

On the same day that Krishna departed from the earth the powerful dark-bodied Kali Age descended. The oceans rose and submerged the whole of Dwarka.

You don't just get to pick a number and claim a site is that old.

"75,000 year old man found posting on message board!"

Harte

Originally posted by aorAki
the notion of dinosaurs and humans coexisting is laughable and flies in the face of understanding of our evolution....but then I sense that you don't subscribe to it much at all, given the timbre of your comments. Is that a fair assessment?

I think both creationists and evolutionists are wrong. Neither theory makes a lot of sense and both are full of holes and missing links.

I find it funny that Bible thumpers are trying to prove man was walking with dinosaurs when the Bible doesn't mention dinosaurs and mankind based on the Adam and Eve story (two white people that had two sons) is only a few thousand years old.

I see ET believers make all sorts of claims and we see people say the Pleaides are not old enough to have evolved life yet we should believe Adam and Eve and Cain.. (the one that got banished, married some woman and became ruler of her people ) gave rise to all the races of man on this planet in such a short time.

I saw a report by a scientist in University of Toronto who made a study that said Black were descended from Apes but not the other races and he could prove it because of an extra vertebrae. Naturally this caused a huge stink... and he was tossed out. But he sued the University and won... Hard to find those reports now... you need to go to the Toronto Star archive.

The museums are full of stuff that is out of place, most of it you cannot even get to view, even if you are an academic with 'qualifications' Heck I tried to view a rare collection of minerals at the ROM in Toronto. The collection was donated by the owner so others could see it. Well rarely they show a few pieces, but other collectors can't even look at the collection... which was why it was donated in the first place

The old books on Archaeology contains so much data and since it was before cameras these guys had artists along to make diagrams. But today a lot of what was in those books is hard to find... not lost, just very hard to find

Here is one

Egypt: descriptive, historical, and picturesque
Ebers, Georg, 1837-1898
scholarship.rice.edu...

Personally I think we are just the latest edition of mankind... I go with this being the 5th civilization of man.

I doubt that we will ever really know the truth... because not only is new stuff being found, but ancient stuff we haven't even dug up yet is being looted or blown to smitherines by war.

And 'the notion of dinosaurs and humans coexisting is laughable" may be so in certain stodgy academic circles, but certainly quite popular with the masses ie Flintstones... and I have found in most cases stodgy old ideas fall to time

Once upon a time those stodgy were 100% sure the Earth was flat.. and had Galileo been a few years earlier he would have been burned at the stake..

1992: Catholic Church apologizes to Galileo, who died in 1642
4thefirsttime.blogspot.com...

This contradicted Church teachings, and some of the clergy accused Galileo of heresy. One friar went to the Inquisition, the Church court that investigated charges of heresy, and formally accused Galileo. (In 1600, a man named Giordano Bruno was convicted of being a heretic for believing that the earth moved around the Sun, and that there were many planets throughout the universe where life existed. Bruno was burnt to death.)

So your 'science' may work for you, but it doesn't work for me

I really like this quote...

Galileo moved on to other projects. He started writing about ocean tides, but instead of writing a scientific paper, he found it much more interesting to have an imaginary conversation among three fictional characters. One character, who would support Galileo's side of the argument, was brilliant. Another character would be open to either side of the argument. The final character, named Simplicio, was dogmatic and foolish, representing all of Galileo's enemies who ignored any evidence that Galileo was right. Soon, Galileo wrote up a similar dialogue called "Dialogue on the Two Great Systems of the World." This book talked about the Copernican system.

"Dialogue" was an immediate hit with the public, but not, of course, with the Church. The pope suspected that he was the model for Simplicio. He ordered the book banned, and also ordered Galileo to appear before the Inquisition in Rome for the crime of teaching the Copernican theory after being ordered not to do so.

I think Galileo and I would have got along great

Newton was also into occult and alternative science...

And here are two quotes;

"Imagination is more important than knowledge"

"Reality is merely an illusion. albeit a very persistent one"

Both made by Albert Einstein

Originally posted by Ben81
reply to post by Kandinsky

 

WTH .. they are identical
so .. 2 ancient civilizations made a similar calendar

another proof of alien influence

i think the Mayan are older and both are from the area of Peru
anyone know exactly all the info regarding those 2 ancient people ?

why would they made 2 similar ultra precise calendar ...

Why? Because both pics show the Aztec calendar.

The Mayan calendar came from the Olmec, IIRC.

The Olmec are considered by some to be a "mother culture" to the Maya, Aztec, Toltec, etc.

Unless I misremember.

Harte

reply to post by Kandinsky



1.Antikythera Mechanism is a genuinely wonderful piece of Greek history..................Wow ....You can say that again, ancient computer around 2000 yrs old.
2.The Egyptian glider is a model of a bird................Rubbish....find me a picture of a bird with two tail wing's and i might agree. Fold a piece of paper into the shape of a glider and throw it!!! Smacks the ground YES! Doesn't mean it doesn't represent a glider does it?
3.Impossible fossils..............What about The Star Child?
4.Can you explain the Pyramids................no chance. And dont give me that old slave crap!!!

Originally posted by simples
maby i can keep this thread alive guys check theses out.

I was fascinated by the crystal skulls when I read about these when I was a kid. However, as this article states, these are most likely a forgery from 19th century.

Originally posted by Harte
"75,000 year old man found posting on message board!"

Nah I'm not that old... only in my eight incarnation, but I do have memories of watching the Priests using a staff and sound to levitate the stones onto the GP

Been looking for that staff in old Egyptian hieroglyphs for over 30 years... it was really odd... but someone posted it here in one of my threads

reply to post by zorgon

Personally I think we are just the latest edition of mankind... I go with this being the 5th civilization of man.

You get a star for this one Zorgon, whether you want it or not.

Originally posted by zorgon

Originally posted by Harte
"75,000 year old man found posting on message board!"

Nah I'm not that old... only in my eight incarnation, but I do have memories of watching the Priests using a staff and sound to levitate the stones onto the GP

I was talkin' about ME!

H.

Firstly, thanks for your reply. It's good to have differing opinions and be able to banter back and forwards without bleeding noses!

Originally posted by zorgon

The museums are full of stuff that is out of place, most of it you cannot even get to view, even if you are an academic with 'qualifications' Heck I tried to view a rare collection of minerals at the ROM in Toronto. The collection was donated by the owner so others could see it. Well rarely they show a few pieces, but other collectors can't even look at the collection... which was why it was donated in the first place

It's the old "not what you know but who you know" and I've been fortunate enough to have contacts in the local museum (mainly the Palaeontology section, but also in collections maintenance and archiving) and thus have seen a lot of artifacts that aren't generally publicly available (at least not anymore) but none that raised an eyebrow as much as the word from a former Director who said" we know about these but we don't want to" about pit-hut remains in the South Island of New Zealand....basically consigning them to the basket of ignorance (or Iwi pandering) and obscure archaeological circles. There are people around who still research these things, if one knows where to look, specifically in this case being the Waitaha and a Celtic-biased archaeologist (who curiously enough had one of his books endorsed by a head Kuia ( Head Woman) : Dame Whina Cooper; so I can be, at least, sympathetic to 'outlandish' or un-prescribed ideas. However, what differentiates my tacit acceptance of the possibility of pre-Maori peoples in New Zealand (and the associated cover-up due to Treaty issues and the notion of tangata whenua) and my reluctance to accept humans coexisting with dinosaurs is that one is well within the realms of possibility (N.Z.) while the other is a virtual Outremer: a kingdom in the mind, not in a physical location and certainly devoid of any evidence other than fabrication..

Originally posted by zorgonThe old books on Archaeology contains so much data and since it was before cameras these guys had artists along to make diagrams. But today a lot of what was in those books is hard to find... not lost, just very hard to find

Again, many of those books are available if one knows of someone who has them or knows where to look
However, a lot of those old books on Archaeology were by people not well trained in technique or without the corrolatory tools we have nowadays and there was often a load of conjecture which stemmed from many things, religion not the least!

Originally posted by zorgonI doubt that we will ever really know the truth... because not only is new stuff being found, but ancient stuff we haven't even dug up yet is being looted or blown to smitherines by war.

That is the beauty of Science: that we will never know the truth but we will refine and adapt so as to get close enough that the gap doesn't matter.
'Things' are always getting lost, looted, blown up etc, and don't forget inundated. Certainly, in my mind, there are discoveries to be made relating to the last Ice Age, when the sea level was lower. Again however, there is a vast difference between matters of thousands of years and millions of years, which is why I don't subscribe to the human-dinosaur coexistence: there just is NO evidence. None, not a dime, nada. sure, it's like looking for a needle in a haystack, but -and again I repeat- it doesn't follow what we already know about human/hominid/mammalian evolution and what we know is not - I am certain - a vast conspiracy to hold us back in our development and understanding of our origins.

Originally posted by zorgonAnd 'the notion of dinosaurs and humans coexisting is laughable" may be so in certain stodgy academic circles, but certainly quite popular with the masses ie Flintstones... and I have found in most cases stodgy old ideas fall to time

The Academic circles you circulate in may well be stodgy, but the ones I frequent are known for their forward-thinking and openness to reason. The notion of the Flintstones is entirely unreasonable. Fortunately it isn't only 'stodgy academics' who think such notions are bunkum, as most anyone I know would agree that it is pure fantasy (these are people who are artists, junkies, doctors, preachers, politicians, shopworkers, factory workers, farmers etc...so, a plethora of people-types).

Originally posted by zorgonOnce upon a time those stodgy were 100% sure the Earth was flat.. and had Galileo been a few years earlier he would have been burned at the stake..

Great West-centric point you make there
This just shows you what it can be living under the rule of fear, as Church Rule. Simple observation would have told them otherwise.

Originally posted by zorgonSo your 'science' may work for you, but it doesn't work for me

So it doesn't work for you because you've been 'burned' by them, you have grave misgivings about the application, or you just plain don't understand? It's not 'my science' by the way, it belongs to everyone and you use it everyday, so what exactly about it doesn't work for you?

Originally posted by zorgonAnd here are two quotes;

"Imagination is more important than knowledge"

"Reality is merely an illusion. albeit a very persistent one"

Imagination and knowledge are two sides of different coins. One you can use and the other is useless without the knowledge that it is imagination. So, you can't have imagination without knowledge and imagination can certainly help advance knowledge.

"Persistent illusions" a.k.a. reality help us come to terms and imagine and understand the world around us. Imagination is important and it seems to be a well-subscribed myth that scientists are "stodgy" and "unimaginative". If you feel that this is so then I feel sorry for you for you obviously haven't met the right scientists or lack the imagination to accept that we are people too, with the same fears, loves, wants and needs.

Originally posted by aorAki
so what exactly about it doesn't work for you?

Mostly the way they treat new ideas and those who present them .

"Persistent illusions" a.k.a. reality help us come to terms and imagine and understand the world around us.

But what if those illusions are only persistent because we have been conditioned to believe it? What if 'magic' was real and Quantum physics is just now catching up to the idea that though CAN change reality?

Now imagine the chaos if that 'truth' gets out

reply to post by Ben81

Well,both cultures were concurrent with each other, and the Mayan's preceded the Aztecs. They were also in the same part of the world.
The Aztecs got their culture started around 1200 AD, but weren't anything special until around 1426 or so.

The Maya were a bit earlier, reaching their peak around 200 to 900 AD.

The calendars seem to be derived from earlier cultures of the region, like the Olmec and Zapotec.

Many of these cultures interlapped with each other, and they borrowed or shared ideas and culture.

Originally posted by coolottie
reply to post by Kandinsky

 

Can you give me the proof that the Dropa Stones are a Hoax, there are alot of sites that say they "could be a Hoax, but I haven't found one that says it was a Hoax. And Surely to defame someone like Zacharia Stichin is so wrong. He is one of the few people on the planet that can translate curiform tablets of the Sumerians. Show me where you got all of your info. What is your degree in?

How about the author of the work in which the Dropa stones first appear in? That's right, the author admitted in Fortean Times that he made them up, is that not enough?