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US mom kills her teens, reportedly for 'talking back'

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posted on Jan, 31 2011 @ 09:30 AM
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I'm gonna preface my comments by saying I know this family personally...

Some of the comments here absolutely sicken me to no end. Leave it to the anonyminity provided by the Internet to bring the trolls and assholes out in force to speak on something they know nothing about.

The mother, whom I have met and spoken to, was very warm, intelligent, and kind. I know she had a pre-existing condition... I do not know what exactly that condition was. Last month, she was involved in a very bad car accident and I presume was using painkillers which may or may not have driven her insane. As you could tell my the video of the police escorting her, something is most definitely wrong.

The children were both role-model teenagers and students. Kids that your kids would want to play with, and kids you would want your kids to play with. Very bright, respectful... it's hard to believe this could happen to them.

And the father is one of the most honorable, thoughtful, and devoted family man/leaders/Soldiers I have ever seen. He is a shining example of a great man... a man you would gladly fight and die for, and who would do the same for you... and he is living through a nightmare. My heart and that best wishes of myself and my family go out to him.

In closing, before you all decide who is judge, jury, and executioner, why don't you keep your damning comments to yourself. This is a tragedy in the utmost sense of the word, there are no winners, only a man, a family, and a community left in shock trying to come to grips with what has happened.

GBD




posted on Jan, 31 2011 @ 09:36 AM
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reply to post by GuiltyByDesign
 


There are two dead teenagers. Not infants, but grown kids! They are dead by their own mother's hand! One was in the car, the other one upstairs, that indicates time and thoughts passed for the killer, and there was ample opportunity for grave fear in that poor second child, and she still decided to kill the second child!

Sure, maybe there was a psychosis, maybe there were drugs, maybe there was brain injury, and there is no doubt that everyone in this story is a victim and it is tragic.

However, your close personal involvement does not negate the facts of the story, or the comments of people here. We are all sorry for your loss, but I still feel the mother should be executed....quickly....and as a father, I know that I would want to do it myself.



posted on Jan, 31 2011 @ 09:38 AM
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reply to post by Griffo
 


You assume all are the same and all would suffer. I, for one, greatly benefited from absolutely ignoring my parents and doing whatever I wanted. I learned the hard way, yes. But the fact that my parents display most if not all the same problems as this mother doesn't mean I should not have been born. It means I'm smart enough to realize my parents are too retarded to parent me so I parented myself. If but one is like that, like me, then your entire theory is flawed. For the loss of one such person is not worth it. Cut the eugenics crap. Nobody is a good parent. All kids are horrors. Suck it up and live with it.

reply to post by LilDudeissocool
 


Morals do not exist. Only logic does. Morals are just people trying to say they're God. Mass murder occurs because people become retarded. It has nothing to do with guns. A spook? Good. You ought to be sacred of the people for what you say.
edit on 31-1-2011 by Gorman91 because: (no reason given)

edit on 31-1-2011 by Gorman91 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 31 2011 @ 09:41 AM
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reply to post by getreadyalready
 


Believe me... I'm a father, and if I lost my son in the manner as this happened, I would want blood as well.

The father in this case... well, for him, vengeance is the furthest thing from his mind right now. He's actually been consoling OTHERS. That's the nature of this man. Truly admirable.

I'd usually want her dead as well, like I said. It's just difficult for me to pass judgement knowing what I know of this family from the past.

GBD



posted on Jan, 31 2011 @ 09:51 AM
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What an array of off topic comment's.This has nothing to do with gun control,liberal's,conserative's,how someone was brougt up or where there from,it has to do with a very sick person.

Did anyone see the video of the woman being brought out by the police?If not please find it and watch it,this woman is very disturbed and possiably ill in some way.No excuse's just some observation's.Also I think it is pertinerent to notice what this person did for a job and who her husband was,just a thought,might go to her mental state.



posted on Jan, 31 2011 @ 10:06 AM
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reply to post by Gorman91
 




It means I'm smart enough to realize my parents are too retarded to parent me so I parented myself. If but one is like that, like me, then your entire theory is flawed. For the loss of one such person is not worth it.


Actually not. As long as the benefits (decreased suffering of persons who would not be able to effectivelly "parent themselves" as you do) outweight the cons (loss caused by preventing the conception of persons who could), it would still be worth it.




Morals do not exist. Only logic does. Morals are just people trying to say they're God.


Logic (science) actually dictates morals. Morality (even absolute or objective) doesnt need god to exist and be valid. The train of thought that to recognize objective (or absolute) morality one must believe in some deity, therefore all atheists must adhere to moral and cultural relativism theory is one of the greatest deception theists ever commited. Read more


edit on 31/1/11 by Maslo because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 31 2011 @ 10:12 AM
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psychosis? Medications? Put yourself in the dads shoes. "excuse me sir/ma'am your children were shot in the back of the head because they talked back..... o but the person who shot them was on medications." "O ok well if she was on meds then thats a completly reasonable explanation."



posted on Jan, 31 2011 @ 10:13 AM
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reply to post by DimensionalDetective
 


I don't support what she did by any means, but some teens I've seen at stores and on TV really need to get the crap beat out of them.



posted on Jan, 31 2011 @ 10:21 AM
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reply to post by Maslo
 


Most societies morals are based of some form of religion and thus far I haven't seen a society whose morals origin from secular sources. The origins of morals is religion. If atheists make their own, it still originates from a religious cause that started the idea. It's not a deception. It's quite clear. Primitive man had gods to fear them into doing good. Now if in several generations a secular non religious society still has those morals then they will be the first in human history. Hit me up if I'm still alive to see it. I'd like to.

Also, the pro con argument is void because the right to life liberty and the pursuit of happiness trumps all. Now if you're not from America then great. But this is a US issue, and thus, US law based.

Ergo, life liberty and the pursuit of happiness trumps all pro-cons first.

Like I said before. Cut the eugenics monologue and get to the point. Can you logically force people not to have kids based on grounds of your subjective views of what is good and bad? The answer is most certainly no. For the second you do, you are forcing your moral code on all others. Intolerable. Either put up or get out.



posted on Jan, 31 2011 @ 10:45 AM
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reply to post by DimensionalDetective
 


Yes, I felt like I was in the twilight zone as well when reading the article on the first day it was reported.. This woman was CLEARLY off her meds (or on them depending on how you look at it due to the list of side effects which is a mile long). I dont understand how these kids were being mothy, because one was in the honor roll, and the other was the founder or something like that of a harry potter fan club!! I would love to know what her term of "mouthy" is.. That excuse just doesn't add up.. And I agree with you that people kill people, whether a gun is used or not..



posted on Jan, 31 2011 @ 11:04 AM
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reply to post by Gorman91
 




Most societies morals are based of some form of religion and thus far I haven't seen a society whose morals origin from secular sources. The origins of morals is religion. If atheists make their own, it still originates from a religious cause that started the idea. It's not a deception. It's quite clear. Primitive man had gods to fear them into doing good. Now if in several generations a secular non religious society still has those morals then they will be the first in human history. Hit me up if I'm still alive to see it. I'd like to.


Morality is NOT based on religion. Religion only parasites on the evolved or discovered morality, and people only use religion to advance and justify their theories about morality - "my morality is better because it was given by god to me." But since god does not exist, the source of morality is actually always based only on reason and societal opinions (the opinions of a religious founder, society etc..). Theists do not have a monopoly on morality, certainly not now. One of the greatest and most influential moral theories - humanism - is actually inherently atheistic and secular.



Also, the pro con argument is void because the right to life liberty and the pursuit of happiness trumps all.


Of course, right to life, thats what we always have to respect - killing is not an option (unless in self defense, when it conflicts with other right to life). Thats why I am talking about prevention of conception (which does not break right to life, unless you want to claim using anticonception, or even refusing sex is murdering), not killing babies.

As for right to liberty, your liberty ends where another persons essential basic rights begin - thus, if childs essential basic right to grow up in good conditions is very probably going to be threatened by some act (in this case, conception), there is nothing unacceptable with preventing such act.

Reasonable reproduction control based on ability to be a parent (NOT eugenics, which is based on genes!) is thus not against "life, liberty and pursuit of happiness, + basic human rights", since by procreating you affect another person.



Can you logically force people not to have kids based on grounds of your subjective views of what is good and bad? The answer is most certainly no. For the second you do, you are forcing your moral code on all others. Intolerable. Either put up or get out.


Can you logically force people not to murder or rape based on grounds of your subjective views of what is good and bad? For the second you do, you are forcing your moral code on all others.

See? All laws we have (even mighty "life, liberty and pursuit of happiness") are "forcing your morality on all others", even those who may disagree with it (murderers..).
Why one objectivelly good morality (murder is bad, it breaches victims right to life) can be forced upon others, and other equally objectivelly good morality (having children I would be unable to take care of is bad, it breaches their right to grow up in good conditions) cannot be forced? The principle is the same.



posted on Jan, 31 2011 @ 11:14 AM
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reply to post by DimensionalDetective
 


Not sure what to say. She definitely should pay for her crimes. Harshly. The sad part is, a bunch of money will be wasted on a trail ...



posted on Jan, 31 2011 @ 11:48 AM
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reply to post by Maslo
 


Not really. The first moral code, going back to the first laws, were inspired by some godly figure. More or less, religion was the vessel used to make people fear into doing it. Without fear, there is no need for morals.

Humanism is not much of a case. It's changed in its meaning a bunch of times.

You are still forcing some sort of ban for a select group of people. Again. intolerable.

Every child in the world has a bad person in their life and a good person in their life. This right to a good life crap is Utopian and lawed. You have a right to life. YOU have to make it good.

Yes Eugenics. Because it's not only genes. Genetic eugenics is one branch of the overall. You still have no right to say how people use their tiddle dee and tiddle doo.

Yes I do have a right to force people from raping pillaging and murdering. Its illogical to the benefit of the species. Now before you go and say that it's beneficial for the species to make sure only fit parents have kids, you're wrong. Beneficial to the species is as diverse as possible. IE, not all parents are good. And this is beneficial because it generates new mental algorithms, such as myself. Diversity is good. Specialization is bad. What you are doing is specialization.

Not all laws are moral. Some are common sense and logical for the benefit of the species.

So again, take your eugenics crap and leave at the next exit to your right. You'll be shot dead by the common man if you try to force such views.



posted on Jan, 31 2011 @ 11:55 AM
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I'm more shocked at the very people responding to this thread who actually have the audacity to defend this woman's actions? Its people like those who defend this action that are the problem and need to be eradicated!



posted on Jan, 31 2011 @ 12:00 PM
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reply to post by LilDudeissocool
 


aww c'mon lildude,
kid probably don't have the attention span to read any of that.
Gorman91 needs to watch some Stefan Molyneux at Freedomain Radio.

www.youtube.com...

same message:
violence towards children, breeds the horrors of war.
and a lot of those posting here too.
your "cynicism" is going to waste where they are concerned.



posted on Jan, 31 2011 @ 12:13 PM
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I'm gonna preface my comments by saying I know this family personally...

walk a mile in [wo]mans shoes...
'nuff said

to gorman: there are no morals only logic?


to a robot maybe, even Mr. Spock had feelings.

logic is blind and leads you into the trap of believing that you KNOW.


here's a logical statement kiddo:

"there is such a thing as right and wrong, and the difference is not hard to tell"

Superman
The Kingdom by Alex Ross



posted on Jan, 31 2011 @ 12:16 PM
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One of my first thoughts upon hearing this tragic news was repulsion and I wanted to shake her and scream, "why woman!?!" Next thought was compassion, and I want to bring her to my chest and stroke her hair, and say "shhhhhhh, shhhhhh, it will be ok, oh my God woman, what have you done, but it will be ok, so shhhh."

This woman is you and you are her. Each and everyone of you holds a dark place/spot in your mind and because this is so, it wouldn't take much for a spiritual attack to manifest inside yourself some unspeakable act you would never think of carrying out, just as what happened to her. Your only defense is to guard your mind well. I pray that you can. This horrific and sad drama once again reveals the curse that has doomed people, now at it’s peak, with combining spirituality along with science-med/technology. The all American mom, who could just as easily been a modern mother in any other country, nevertheless; the so called perfect mom, respectable career and pretty and smart teenagers, who gave no "long-term indication of any warning signs" of murdering anyone, commits this unthinkable act. This woman was normal and part of a normal woman’s mode of thought is, harboring a "dark spot" in her mind. What defines a dark spot in the mind? Well, we can start with movie producer's and their agent's minds as harboring/manifesting dark-spots, along with novelist whom all graphically depict violence, they help keep the dark-spot's juices flowing, and then continue on down the line all the way down to someone proclaiming they do not condone the murdering of children yet condone the murder of one who has murdered children, or prays/wishes for their prolonged agony of them rotting in hell. These are all dark spots in the mind, one in the same, which is the same spot this woman who committed this act has. Anyone seeking personal justice/revenge with trying to rationalize this bloody drama any further, manifests evil if they call for murder in return and/or make hatefull/spitefull comments condemning this poor woman. These are all violent and unhelpful thought-forms that manifest from the dark spot in their minds that EVERYONE HAS, NO ONE IS IMMUNE FROM IT, THAT INTERTWINED RIGHT ALONG WITH THE PERSON WHO HAS MURDERED such as this woman has, which make that person as guilty as the other, because they have fed this dark-thought form with false righteousness. So it grows bigger and bigger and Satan/Demon/Devil, what ever name you chose to give it, breathes it all in and he/it get‘s bigger and bigger everyday. Before you all know it, this EVIL, this pollutant, will manifest IN FULL FORM AND POP INTO YOUR LIVES and BLACKEN THE ENTIRE WORLD. Just as some say it’s the gun’s fault, and just as some say that isn’t true, that it’s the individual person’s fault, I say it’s the dark-spot’s fault and anyone who feeds into the dark-spot with their false righteousness is and will be to blame for the manifestation of evil in this world. If you didn’t know this before, now you know, so change your thinking and quit the blaming and look into yourselves. You can help stop these dark thought forms now by having mercy on this woman, learning from it and opening your hearts. IT IS MORE THAN SAD THIS WOMAN'S CHILDREN WERE KILLED IN COLD BLOOD, AND THAT A HUSBAND STANDS IN THE MIDDLE GOING WTF HAPPENED? BUT THE CHILDREN ARE NOT HERE NOW, THE WOMAN IS AND THE HUSBAND IS AND WE ARE. NOTHING WILL BRING THE CHILDREN BACK HERE, AND BECAUSE WE CANNOT BRING THEM BACK HERE OUR ONLY HOPE IS HER SALVATION WHICH IS INTERTWINED WITH OURS. We cannot further protect the children until we look at our own violent culture/world and quit splitting hairs on what is violent and what is not. Violence is violece is violence from a simple f-you to bam your dead. Salvation through mercy and kindness is the only way into the next progression of a world with no corruption. To those of you who say there will never be another world, be silenced, for we do not need your pathetic lack of hope. The uncorrupt and good world we get to live on AFTER we prove ourselves on the testing grounds of this planet is REAL. The path has already been created and it exists and is so because of Jesus Christ. He has found a way out of the matrix. See, there is no corruption in the next progression and there is no room for those carrying false righteousness in their hearts as they would corrupt His “Eden“ He has prepared for us, so please get rid of false-righteousness now, here is your chance to change. You can do it! I want to see you there and I have to be able to say I attempted to help, as foolish as I may sound in doing so, this is real! Change the thought form! Mk-Ultra, Mk-Schmulta, the real truth is she was driven to it by society, by community, by the human population AS A WHOLE simply with the feeding of the violent dark spots with in everyone’s mind, with self righteous gossiping banter of other negative real life dramas, violent movies and/or books. You all want to understand how this happens, it starts with your minds, locked in the matrix, which is NON-ORIGINAL and repetative, every thought you have is NOT YOUR OWN because someone else thought about it before you, and because this is so, choose to feed the spot in your mind that is good, that shows understanding, mercy, compassion. It is obvious this woman was spiritually targeted to commit this act.

I sense more acts of spiritual terrorism will take place if we as a people cannot come together and pray for cohesion and unity amongst one another and offer peace to one another, stand as a beacon of hope to one another. It is up to you to come forth and bind each other in good spirit and pray for this woman’s salvation as her salvation will be yours when you stand to be judged. Some blame the gun, some blame the person, but I proclaim to not look on the surface…look into your spirit and shut out the dark spot of false righteousness that lingers like a nasty leech in our beautiful brains God gave us. The spirit of the American people, which has been a target of spiritual attack, to break us down, destroy us as a people, as a Christian nation, to turn us against each other, must be rekindled. It can start with this woman in this thread!

Or, maybe this woman knows that the rest of you all won’t be able to control your self righteous dark thought forms, and with her supposedly being in the Intel Business and knowing how the mind works to a degree, she truly knows the “devil” is close at hand and provided a merciful exit before the beast ravages us all. This woman has provided a wake-up call for the rest of the world - have mercy on her, help her quiet the screams of the demons raging in her head, it is enough, look at her! She did not kill herself as she intended, thus providing us a way to infiltrate her mind with thoughts of love/understanding through prayer by average citizenry. No-one will hurt her any further, in the name of Jesus Christ I proclaim her mind protected from evil false self-righteous thought forms. And please consider, anyone who is human is mentally ill merely because of sin, aka, the dark spot I was talking about in our mind. So don’t ostracize this woman and be quick to judge as mentally ill, for those who judge are mentally ill themselves. No, we must look deeper, past these readily thrown out labels. Help her for she is your child, your mother, your sister, and if you despise them, she is YOU! And if you despise yourself, she is the Puppy that you hug and kiss or the flower that blooms just for you. If you want no violence towards you or your loved ones, then it must be no violence AT ALL, be it child or adult. This is not the cause of pills, the cause of guns, the cause of one single person, this is US and we are all responsible. There is NO SPLITTING HAIRS, THE SLOPE IS TOO SLIPPERY. You want to understand, how could she? Well now you know. Show mercy. Deny ignorance. God help us through Christ Jesus! Sealed.
edit on 1/31/2011 by Key-Minder because: Spelling



posted on Jan, 31 2011 @ 12:19 PM
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Originally posted by keelan55
reply to post by RestingInPieces
 
It's murder don't you see.She murdered her own kids and that is unacceptable.She should of never done that in the first place.Its not a joke to make fun of her murdering her own dead children.Its not even funny.Shame



It all balances out. She created them and then killed them, so it's like she never did anything at all.



posted on Jan, 31 2011 @ 12:26 PM
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reply to post by Gorman91
 





So again, take your eugenics crap and leave at the next exit to your right. You'll be shot dead by the common man if you try to force such views.


Nope, my friend. Look at China - according to surveys, 76 % of people support their one child policy. You are not speaking for the common man, and your position is highly illogical and inconsistent anyway. I will reply to the rest of your post later.



posted on Jan, 31 2011 @ 12:28 PM
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reply to post by DimensionalDetective
 


There are allready back ground checks in place. If she had ever been ajudicated mentally defective she wouldn't be allowed to purchase a gun in any store.

Here is my question to you. Where does it say this was a legal gun? Where does it say she ever purchased any gun anywhere? This is horrible, but guess what. Women have drowned their kids in the bath tub, drove them in to rivers, stabbed them to death, and put them in microwaves. She would have killed these kids with or without a gun.



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