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Weekend of protests across the UK

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posted on Jan, 30 2011 @ 05:31 AM
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Originally posted by muzzleflash
I would actually like to see the UK get all Egyptian over the next week or two.


No chance. We're not even remotely in the same situation and all these protests are by left-wing interests groups getting shirty over the Government shrinking the size of the Nanny state.


Originally posted by muzzleflash
Maybe kick out that royal family. Would renew my faith in the British people.


Why?


Originally posted by muzzleflash
Oh yeah, and tear all those CCTV cameras down too



I can see you;ve bought into that whole "300 times a day" nonsense. If you care to educate yourself on the matter, i will discuss it. I get the impression you believe all these camera's are run by the state, watched by an army of minions to ensure us plebs behave. It is nothing of the sort.


Originally posted by TedHodgson
Not everyone is in a Dodgy Sounding Apprenticeship.


Doesn't it just! I did an apprenticehip and didn't have to "pay" to do it.


Originally posted by TedHodgson
Just because your brother hasnt got anywhere doesnt mean Others havent suceeded and done well in life


Yup, like me. I did an apprenticeship at 17 and now I am earning a nice wedge of dosh. All off my own back. Even when I was unemployed and homeless, I didn't go asking for handouts from the state, I pulled my socks up and did something about it.


Originally posted by muzzleflash
The royal family can abolish Parliament. Just because it hasn't happened doesn't mean it isn't LEGAL and TRUE.


No, the "Royal Family" can do no such thing. Goes to show what you know.


Originally posted by muzzleflash
How happy are the British common people with a camera on them all the time?

Is it comfortable? Did you solve crime yet? Or does it still happen despite all the totalitarian measures?


Go on, educate me about all these "cameras" we have on us. Should be worth a giggle.


Originally posted by muzzleflash
What about the absurd policies the local police enforce?


Like........?


Originally posted by muzzleflash
I do really like British people, and always tend to view their police as exceptionally intelligent and impeccably well mannered. However some of these days they are quite overbearing and authoritarian. And the worst part is it's extremely inexplicable misunderstandings that become the biggest issues.


How so? Please elaborate.


Originally posted by muzzleflash
I personally hope to God that the British can declare true freedom and live without the need of a Monarchy to hoard their future from them.


Look, just because you do not understand our system and have some hardon for getting rid of the monarchy, that doesn't mean everyone else does. Why on earth would we want rid of the Queen to replace them with some other silver-spooned idiot who's only discernable skill is to be able to pursuade people he is telling the truth. God forbid we would have someone like "President" Blair. Urrrgh...


Originally posted by muzzleflash
If you have a King or Queen, you cannot be free. It makes you a subject.


Actually, you need to go an educate yourself, again! We're EU citizens, which supercedes being a British "subject" and anyhoo, we're still British citizens on our passports and in Law, not "subjects".


Originally posted by muzzleflash
And watching a Monarch "pay taxes" is hilarious. Since the King/Queen pays taxes to THEMSELVES, you should have to pay taxes to them also?


Again, you totally do not understand what you're talking about! The Queen doesn't pay taxes to herself! What a moronic statement. She pays taxes to HM treasury, which despite the name, is nothing to do with the Monarchy at all.


Originally posted by muzzleflash
Broke?

Have you seen the Monarch's palaces?


Again, you know nothing and are merely parroting crap. The Monarch does not own the Palaces, they belong to the state.


Originally posted by muzzleflash
Also, have you seen the UK military? It's top quality.


Hmm, a mixed response on this one. We have good kit and great troops, but cash has and always will be a problem. Even in the sdays of Empire, we were loath at spending to much on the Military.


Originally posted by muzzleflash
Your brimming with riches.


We're coughing up £120 million a day in debt servicing alone. Thats a new Hospital's worth every 2 days! We need to get the deficit down.


Originally posted by TedHodgson
reply to post by mr-lizard
 


I merely stated that i can infact save £1500 for a package education when i have worked full time for a year, Which i can,

Infact most people can

And if you had a full time job you would be able to too

edit on 29/1/11 by TedHodgson because: (no reason given)


One can even pay OU fees on a month by month basis. I did. Cost me £58 a month to do my BEng.


Originally posted by Essan

Originally posted by thoughtsfull

Personally I fully support the Students, and the principle that we need a nation of educated people..


Do we need a nation of people who all go to university but can barely read or write and have no useful skills to offer society? And expect the govt to provide everything on a plate but not have to pay taxes?


Indeed. Under Blair, alot more people went to Uni, but the vast majority did empty degrees, such as "Social Studies in aquatic mammoths" or "Orangutan's and us - do they taste good?". My own partner spent 4 years at Uni doing "Fine Art". About as much use as a chocolate fireguard on Mercury. She is currently working in Argos. Go figure.

As it stands, "core" subjects such as science, maths, English etc are receieving more funding than before and students can get discounted rates on those courses, but fluffy degrees such as "Womble Farming in the 21st Century" will now not be supported by the state.


Originally posted by mr-lizard
But those who tend to get a degree for the sake of it, tend to be comfortably middle class, but those who struggle tend to be working class.

The filter would just stop poorer people from trying.


Lizard, to be honest if "poor" people are disuaded from going to Uni over these fee's, then they lack the critical thinking and independence of thought to even achieve a worthwhile degree in the first place.

Anyone who looks at these new measures will see that no one is actually being excluded, graduates will pay back less each year and the threshold before you pay anything has gone up. Using the "poor" as an excuse if Labours only tactic to counter it.

And don't forget, they promised no tuition fees at all in 2005 then brought them in using Scottish MP's to get through parliament, even though the plans didn't affect Scotland where they're all still subsidised by the State (read English taxpayers).




posted on Jan, 30 2011 @ 05:43 AM
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"Lets look at the bigger picture. In the UK, students will be charged £3000 a year (max) for access to a top class Uni. For a similiar education in the US, one will have to pay several times more than that AND up front. "

Stumason, students are charged over 3 grand now per annum. The fees will rise to £9000 per annum max by 2012.
edit on 30-1-2011 by DrHammondStoat because: to clarify.....



posted on Jan, 30 2011 @ 05:52 AM
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I am all for protesting like this UK Uncut stuff

BUT

when will people understand that The GOvernment is and Has been OVERSPENDING and that the Public sector is OverBloated !!!

I do not like the Fact that Big Corporations seem to flout the rules and I definitly support protests against them BUT I will not support a reduction to the public sector austerity measures because quite simply, over the previous decade the spending on Government departments, council services, pension provisions HAS EXCEEDED what can be promised....

To all those complaining -- reality check -- YOU CANNOT spend what you DO NOT have !!

Regards

PDUK
edit on 30-1-2011 by PurpleDog UK because: e



posted on Jan, 30 2011 @ 05:55 AM
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Originally posted by DrHammondStoat
"Lets look at the bigger picture. In the UK, students will be charged £3000 a year (max) for access to a top class Uni. For a similiar education in the US, one will have to pay several times more than that AND up front. "

Stumason, students are charged over 3 grand now per annum. The fees will rise to £9000 per annum max by 2012.
edit on 30-1-2011 by DrHammondStoat because: to clarify.....


You are quite right. Typo on my behalf. I was thinking £9000 and for some reason divided that by three...

Doh!

Either way, it is still a pittance compared to the US as was my point. I will correct my mistake and you can have a star for pointing out my error.



posted on Jan, 30 2011 @ 05:57 AM
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Hey, I photographed the protests yesterday and have posted the story here at ATS.

www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Jan, 30 2011 @ 09:02 AM
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Originally posted by MMPI2
reply to post by TedHodgson
 


ok...i see.

what do the students in the UK expect in terms of tuition fees?

i guess i am asking because it seems that folks in these countries with the socialist model believe that benefits, wages, etc. are always gonna be favorable, and that the government should make them favorable. these students don't seem to understand that the money for all the goodies has to come from somebody, and that sometimes money runs out.

sorta like spoiled children, maybe......




Yes they do, they expect their TAX DOLLARS to be a COLLECTIVE EMPOWERMENT AND TO BENEFIT THEM AND THEIR CHILDREN, OR THEY WON"T PAY. ]The Government and education, health care, dentistry even, and social assistance is expected, the the taxes are a GIANT BOOMERANG that had better be beneifitting their communities and the paid politiciains are public servants, not dictators. This is the only real democracy that exists, anything else is an illegal pyramid system mascarading as free enterprise democracy.



posted on Jan, 30 2011 @ 09:35 AM
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reply to post by TedHodgson
 


You got enough credits in one year of studying with the OU to gain a degree and it only cost £1500.

What courses did you do?



posted on Jan, 30 2011 @ 09:38 AM
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Those students have too much free time. If they bothered to get a job they wouldn't have to worry about paying for the privilege to study.

And get rid of the dole, make them fix the roads,schools, build houses etc. No more free money for doing nothing.



posted on Jan, 30 2011 @ 09:45 AM
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reply to post by Essan
 


No we don't need a nation of people who have all gone to university but we do need a nation of people who have had the option to go to university and whose primary qualification for entry is ability and not the wealth of one's parents!
edit on 30/1/11 by Freeborn because: h



posted on Jan, 30 2011 @ 09:57 AM
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reply to post by Freeborn
 


But Freeborn, as I have said, your economic background has no bearing in this debate, it is merely being sold as such to paint the current Government as engaged in some sort of class war.



posted on Jan, 30 2011 @ 11:06 AM
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reply to post by stumason
 


Which they are.

They seem hell bent on dragging British society back to something remeniscent of Victorian Britain.

All the cuts currently announced amount to a £7billion saving.
Vodafone were recently 'let off' with a £6billion tax bill.www.thisismoney.co.uk...

This is the tip of the iceberg.

Yes, the previous administration were irresponsible and in fact have been complicit in this unscrupulous attack on the British people who are unnecessarily paying for the errors and downright incompetece of those with the real power and influence, but this abomination of duplicit and egostistcal parasites who are currently in power are stooping to new depths in their goals of self-glorification and aggrandisement.
They seem to have some sort of divine conviction that they are destined to rule.

The gap between the upper echelons of British society and the rest of us is growing and the ConDems will do everything to ensure that this continues.
This is a good programme that explains some of it;
www.bbc.co.uk...



posted on Jan, 30 2011 @ 11:10 AM
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reply to post by Freeborn
 


Freeborn

I posted this on another thread ... i think it's relevant to this discussion.....


NonKonphormist

I actually tend to agree with you that the system is not right !!! we are similar in that respect BUT then what is a more appropriate system ?

Secondly, If the current system is at fault then why weren't all the current 'whining' protesters PROTESTING when Labour was in power !!??!!
My suggestion is that most people Cannot 'divorse' themselves away from a firstly pathetic politcal belief - Read My Signature below - and that everyone has become used to and accustomed to getting everything they really want without working or attaching a value to it !!

Union leaders (?) and Career politicains should be ASHAMED of themselves as their pathetic little self centred speeches and rhethoric only serve to feed the GORMLESS masses whom seem unable to think for themselves or even remember what happend the week before (unless it was some stupid celebrity / popular culture event)!!!.........

I am TOTALLY dis-illusioned with how DUMB alot of the Protestors and agitators are because they seem unable to see the bigger picture......

If they have a problem with certain Corporations then why not use their power and NOT SHOP religiously at Fecking TOP Shop or Vodafone et al................. I'll tell you why, it is because they can't really be bothered and do not really understand !!!!!

Best Regards

PDUK



posted on Jan, 30 2011 @ 11:20 AM
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I saw this on twitter:

DO NOT accept any leaflets from the police on the protest unless you wish to be legally bound by a section14 notice. REPOST! #demo2011 #dayx

Is this how they play now? Can anyone confirm this?



posted on Jan, 30 2011 @ 11:30 AM
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reply to post by stumason
 


Not all are left wing as yopu put it. So those residents protesting at the cuts in council spending are left wing also>? Come on stop slapping a tag on everyone.


Almost 2,000 residents have taken part in a protest against Barnet Council's budget cuts.

Barnet Alliance for Public Services says the council's planned £54.4m cuts would result in a deterioration in the borough.



Residents March OVer Council Cuts


More than 1,000 people have attended a rally in Cumbria in protest against Government plans to sell off woodland.


Protests Over Selling of National Forrests


Twenty people were arrested by police after a splinter group left a rally against government spending cuts and marched to Manchester city centre.


Clashes with Post Demo Group

Oks I agree there are some who are left wing when it comes to the protests but not all are left wing as you out it, quite alot are ordinary Citizens worried about Cuts in thier council funds, while those concillors can spend thousands redecorating thier offices and build fences which is not needed. While they raise the council tax fees completely disgusting.



posted on Jan, 30 2011 @ 12:03 PM
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reply to post by PsykoOps
 


Yep, a section 14 is a legal notice and, like Court papers, once served are binding, so whatever it tells you to do, you are obliged to follow it.

Very sneaky of them if you don't know the Law. Just be grateful they don't read the Riot Act at you though, which gives them power to detain or even shoot ring leaders.



posted on Jan, 30 2011 @ 12:10 PM
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reply to post by Laurauk
 


Fair enough, the ordinary "man" may have no political affiliation, but my point is a lot of protests themselves, by and large, are organised and instigated by Trade Unions (left wing) and Student Unions (left wing). Of course not all are and I don't believe I said "all".



posted on Jan, 30 2011 @ 12:18 PM
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Originally posted by muzzleflash
reply to post by MMPI2
 


If the government won't even bother to educate it's own people, maybe it has no place taxing them to oblivion?

I don't know. Just a thought.

I would actually like to see the UK get all Egyptian over the next week or two.

Maybe kick out that royal family. Would renew my faith in the British people.

Oh yeah, and tear all those CCTV cameras down too


Not my country, but if it was, that's what I would want.


The cctv thing is well over stated, not one anywhere near me apart from outside supermarkets where I don't blame them. There is absolutely no similarity between the Egyptian situation and the UK, do you actually keep abreast with foreign affairs?



posted on Jan, 30 2011 @ 12:31 PM
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Originally posted by woodwardjnr

Originally posted by TedHodgson
reply to post by mr-lizard
 


I merely stated that i can infact save £1500 for a package education when i have worked full time for a year, Which i can,

Infact most people can

And if you had a full time job you would be able to too

edit on 29/1/11 by TedHodgson because: (no reason given)


Do you think a well educated populace is good for a country? Is it worth investing in?


What's well educated? Do you think the labour dictat of 50% of all school leavers going to university was anything other than a spin to keep the unemployment figures low - at least for four years?

Where do all the graduate required jobs come from...... ah, they don't, hence so many university leavers jobless. It was a con, a fairly naive one at that.



posted on Jan, 30 2011 @ 12:34 PM
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It's a complex issue in my opinion.
I was working in the vicinity of the break away group in Manchester who caused a high st retailer close (again).

As a student, I agree with some of the arguments against the cuts, and some towards.

From one perspective, both higher tuition fees AND lack of loan means that I would financially be unable to afford the price for education. I'm lucky that my Dad has been able to support me thus far regarding tuition fees. I'm in uni four full days a week. I work part time 24 hours a week and I freelance on top of that. So although I can survive without the maintenance loan, life is much easier if I had it as I'm constantly doing some form of work. I don't have time to sit about. So thats my background to help you understand why I say what I'm about to say..

I can survive because I have a job. Its easy to say that all students can just get a job to subsidize, but in the current climate - a job is also a luxury and not so obtainable any more.
This is where the maintenance loan comes in. It should provide money for what wages would normally buy - necessities.

Now imagine you can get a loan for tuition but not maintenance, and you can't find a part time job. You can pay for education, but not for food or accommodation. So education is not affordable.
Regarding parental contributions.. great for some (and thanks Dad!!). But imagine that your parents have more than one child to possibly fund. My parents are only barely over the threshold for qualifying for any help. There are many people in this position, and so funding one (or more) is quite burdensome - it eats away at their hard earned cash.
The point here is that everyone has a right to education, and the new cuts will make it impossible for some people.

What really annoys me, however, is the fact that course budgets are virtually nil, and teaching staff are being cut.

So that equates to Higher fees for lesser quality. Now in my opinion, THAT doesn't make sense.

I don't agree with the violence and I'm not condoning the actions of the students who have caused damage but the reason behind it was because various companies haven't been paying tax and owe millions. The government don't pull them up on it and students are one of all who are footing the bill.

I agree that University isn't necessarily the way to go.. things need a lot of change. Perhaps more vocational options. Getting rid of these silly courses etc..
I get annoyed with people who take university as a free-ride and spend their time drinking. Those are the people who shouldn't be there. At the moment, we have it great as students. Education should be appreciated.


However, we have to remember that it's all part of the bigger economic picture. It's all well and good saying that students are just causing problems, and people are entitled to their opinion. But at least they are fighting for something they believe in.


The way it seems to be going in many aspects of life is that we are all paying more for less. I don't mind what happens to any system as long as the system is fair to all. Which as we all know is pretty impossible... can but hope



posted on Jan, 30 2011 @ 12:34 PM
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Originally posted by MMPI2

Originally posted by Catch_a_Fire
reply to post by MMPI2
 


I wouldnt say that, but i can see how you would. When you live in a country that is taxed like we are, you would understand peoples anger.


yep. like the old saying goes...

"Socialism is all well and good until you start to run out of other peoples' money to spend."



I think you'll find that the posters those that protested were carrying all had the Socialist Worker tag at the top. Kind of shows we aren't as socialist as some people would like to think.




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