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Chemtrails or Contrails Over Florida

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posted on Feb, 3 2011 @ 11:51 AM
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Originally posted by RIGHTEOUSANGER
reply to post by apex
 


Did you see the radar? It's visible.....don't care what it is, it's showing up on the radar. What does this "activity" look like in the sky when viewing from the ground?


Yes, it is visible on the radar. That is it's purpose, to show up on the radar, and therefore jam it so that your target can't see what aircraft are there. It isn't very effective in terms of military usage because having a massive cloud show up on your radar screens tells you that you are under attack (and the direction and altitude those attackers are coming from) just as surely as bombs falling near you. But it does make it difficult to target aircraft.

That said, it is small pieces of aluminium that are about a millimetre in thickness, so very difficult to see a few feet away, let alone 30,000. If you were to look at aircraft dropping chaff, you most likely wouldn't be able to tell.




posted on Feb, 3 2011 @ 12:28 PM
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Originally posted by RIGHTEOUSANGER
reply to post by apex
 


Did you see the radar? It's visible.....don't care what it is, it's showing up on the radar. What does this "activity" look like in the sky when viewing from the ground?


Chaff can be visible to radar, because its meant to be visible to radar. Its designed for maximum reflectivity to fool enemy missiles, there is no conspiracy about this. I would not entirely trust a meterologist to recognize it on radar however..not say it is not chaff, just saying I am not totally sure it is either.

No, you would not see it from the ground. If you have this image of B-52 or large aircraft up there opening up some bay and dumping tons and tons of chaff, you would be mistaken. Its small bundles (30-60 in an F-16) or a system that quickly cuts the aluminum to a specific length based on radar type.

And the fact that it possibly can show up on radar, disproves the chemmie notion that chaff is sprayed particles too, since particles do no show up on radar.



posted on Feb, 3 2011 @ 12:31 PM
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reply to post by RIGHTEOUSANGER
 


Chaff was designed to fool radar so it will show up on radar because thats the point.



posted on Feb, 3 2011 @ 12:37 PM
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reply to post by firepilot
 


You are right it does make sense. I learn about chemtrails and start looking to the sky. Of course I am going to see more now because I am actually looking. I also did not know a contrail can become a cirrus. I honestly haven't researched it that much which is my own fault. However like I said what if you can't visually tell the difference between a chemtrail and contrail. People need to focus more on the chemical content of the clouds formed. Maybe they will see chemical differences.



posted on Feb, 3 2011 @ 12:40 PM
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Tell me please all the chemtrail theorists, why would any military pilot "spray" the population. They know his/her family is down their or perhaps family of the people he/she works with are down their. So why would a military pilot or any pilot for that matter intentionally want to hurt their own family or family of their friends.



posted on Feb, 3 2011 @ 12:52 PM
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Originally posted by TorqueyThePig
reply to post by firepilot
 


You are right it does make sense. I learn about chemtrails and start looking to the sky. Of course I am going to see more now because I am actually looking. I also did not know a contrail can become a cirrus. I honestly haven't researched it that much which is my own fault. However like I said what if you can't visually tell the difference between a chemtrail and contrail. People need to focus more on the chemical content of the clouds formed. Maybe they will see chemical differences.


Well, I will give you some credit for that. At least you are putting some thought into it. Just realize when a lot of chemtrailers, and those who promote chemtrails to sell products, insist contrails can not last at all, it is a hoax.

Measurements of the Growth of the Ice Budget in a Persisting Contrail
R.G. Knollenberg
Journal of the Atmospheric Sciences
Volume 29, Issue 7 (October 1972)

“It is often observed that contrails spread considerably…Under favorable conditions, a lateral spread of kilometers is observed…If sufficient air traffic exists, and entire overcast of contrail cirrus may develop and persist for hours with rapid growth in the ice budget of individual contrails.”

contrailscience.com...

Yeah, I do say to look up, look around, look at science and weather websites. Learn new things, all the dynamics of the atmosphere can be fascinating.



posted on Feb, 3 2011 @ 02:51 PM
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Originally posted by RIGHTEOUSANGER

You obviously didn't read nor check out any of the links...WE ARE LIED TO ALL THE TIME,


Indeed - and not only by the big bad government - people who are not part of hte Govt lie too.


why would this be any different? Because you guys say so?


No - because the evidence says one thing, and the chemtrail hoax says the other and can't back it up with anything.

It is the evidene that says the hoax is a lie.

the hoaxers know it too - eg most chemtrail youtubeers ban anyone who asks for evidence or suggests a "rational" explaination - they can't debate it, because they ahve nothing to debate with othe than supposition. Those that don't still don't debate actual evidence - they just resort to calling anyone who dares question them a schill, etc.



And again, WHAT ABOUT THE PUBLIC LAW STATING THE USE OF CHEMICAL AND BIOLOGICAL WEAPONS CAN BE USED ON US??????


What about it? Not sure what you point is here.

If it is that such a law exists and should be repealed - yep, couldnt' agree more - there's no use for it, it's is obviously pretty damned dodgy, and you should lobby hard to get rid of it.



posted on Feb, 3 2011 @ 03:08 PM
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Originally posted by joejack
Tell me please all the chemtrail theorists, why would any military pilot "spray" the population. They know his/her family is down their or perhaps family of the people he/she works with are down their. So why would a military pilot or any pilot for that matter intentionally want to hurt their own family or family of their friends.



Why will you go about your life, eating poisons when I provided you with the info informing you to avoid?

Why does the military use Depleted Uranium when the deadly effects are readily known?

Why do the TSA goons stand near radiation all day long?

Why did they use Corexit in the Gulf when it is known to have killed/sickened practically every worker from the Exxon Valdez spill?

Why do we allow Wall Street to rob us, and then they demand AND get taxpayer money after the robbing? And please do not tell me they paid it back because they did not, even though the newspapers and tv say differently.

With the history of our govt and every ruling class, why do you believe anything you are told, especially when the lamestream media is bought and paid for. Heck, MSNC got some of the "bailout" money.

Seriously, watch the Carlin video, he really sums up what many of us already know.

Do you think the military knows many of the things they are doing? They do what they are told, if they are informed they are helping the environment, like they would question it. Our govt/military help prop up dictators all across the planet, you think they are going to question flying?

And I still don't understand the 30,000 ft above our head argument......many of the planes in my area are NOT flying that high while spraying.

And how do you know if "chaff" is ok? I'm amazed how there are so many experts on everything. I don't claim to have the answers to the whole chemtrail thing, but one thing I do know is God gave me two eyes to see and critical thinking to process what I see and what I see is not normal CONtrails.

If I had the dinero, I would love to fly some of you down here to see what I am speaking of.

Please answer this, if they were simply CONtrails, why wouldn't our representatives inform us of this when we question them? I spoke before a delegation involving state senators and local representatives.....showed pictures and asked questions......no response.....other things were answered, but not this. I then emailed the senators, to which they gave me a thank you for contacting them and presenting before the delegation. I then emailed them again to ask why they wouldn't provide any info or answers to the question and again, a simple thanks was provided. This happens to every single person when they contact any elected representative. They NEVER address the chemtrail issue, but ALWAYS answer/respond to every other inquiry. Seems quite odd to me. How hard would it be to go to the one website every person references, contrailscience.com... and provide the rhetoric from within. FYI: is this really the only website out there?? Just about every person stating we are crazy reference this site, including a few meteorologists as well. It's almost as if it's an AP story.

And again, since every single person passes by the obvious, WHY IS IT PERMISSIBLE FOR THE GOVT TO USE CHEMICAL AND BIOLOGICAL WEAPONS ON THE PUBLIC???????????



posted on Feb, 3 2011 @ 03:19 PM
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I didn't ignore it - I asked what your point is?

There is no evidence that the US govt is currently using any chemical or biological weapons on it's population that I know of.

Certainly it and other govt's have done so to their populations in the past and are now roundly condemned for doing so - how does that make it acceptable?



posted on Feb, 3 2011 @ 04:03 PM
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Originally posted by RIGHTEOUSANGER

And I still don't understand the 30,000 ft above our head argument......many of the planes in my area are NOT flying that high while spraying.


got any evidence of this? I've seen a video on youtube by "Tanker enemy" where he claims to have used a laser rangefinder to "prove" that a plane was only at 1500m - but it is so obviously either faked or otherwise wrong that it is laughable - at 1.5 km the plane wouold not be blurry like it is.



And how do you know if "chaff" is ok? I'm amazed how there are so many experts on everything.


People here are, generally, not experts - they are peole who have looked at evidence - verifiable evidence that is reproduceable, provided by other people and organisations who's job it is to be experts.


I don't claim to have the answers to the whole chemtrail thing, but one thing I do know is God gave me two eyes to see and critical thinking to process what I see and what I see is not normal CONtrails.


Make up your mind - by claiming that contrails are not contrails you are saying that you are an expert on the subject of contrails!

how do you know they are not contrails? Because threy last a long time? Pelase don't say that is your criteria...it is so wrong as to be laughable now - contrails persist, and have persisted, according to atmospheric conditions.

Here's an account of a contrail forming and lasting a long time from 1930:


On a bright moonlight night a flight was undertaken in the Wollaston Lake area in northern Saskatchewan at which time the ground temperature was approximately -50 degrees F. The air was clear with the exception of a very slight frost precipitation which was noticeable but of no great hindrance to visibility. Possibly this would be a clue as to humid conditions at the time. Flying was done at approximately 1,000 to 1,500 ft. On circling the bay at which the aircraft was to land, a dark streak was noticeable across the surface of the bay. This was being more closely examined by the pilot, in the event of it being an ice-heave, when it was noticed that the dark streak was drifting across the bay. On looking back it was found that a dense trailing cloud had formed and the dark streak observed was a shadow of this cloud. The turning of the aircraft was continued until the tail end of this cloud was met, at which time it was still showing no sign of disintegration. It was estimated that this trailing cloud was over two miles long. (47)

(47.) A. M. Cambell to Air Transport Association of Canada, Letter, nd, pp. 4-5 in United Kingdom, Meteorology Subcommittee of the Aeronautical Research Committee, "Formation of Vapour Trails behind Aircraft: Copy of Pilots' Replies to Questionnaire Issued by the National Research Council of Canada," nd [early 1942], United Kingdom National Archives document DSIR 23/11406.



Please answer this, if they were simply CONtrails, why wouldn't our representatives inform us of this when we question them?


If they know about contrails then they do - but mostly politicians don't actually know much about the subject at all - it is not particularly important to them.

Politicians have been asked about them all over the world - here's a transcript of questions on the subject asked in the New Zealand Parliament postyed on a NZ conspiracy site - the NZ Minister for the Environment features in "What in the world are they spraying" saying it's all rubbish.


Seems quite odd to me. How hard would it be to go to the one website every person references, contrailscience.com... and provide the rhetoric from within.


Most politicians have things they consider more important to deal with - contrails and the chemtrail hoax are simply not vote winners - firstly the chemtrail nonsense doesn't stack up as soon as it is given any serious analysis, and secondly far too few people are fooled by it to make pushing it worth anything except getting a reputation as an idiot. OK...politicians....so a reputation as more of an idiot!




FYI: is this really the only website out there?? Just about every person stating we are crazy reference this site, including a few meteorologists as well. It's almost as if it's an AP story.


no it is not the only website - but it is the one that brings together the most information, and maintains the politest level of dialogue! Even wiki has an article on chemtrails - en.wikipedia.org...

If you want to get a bit more argumentative try Jazzroc - jazzroc.wordpress.com... - he also contributes on contrail science.


edit on 3-2-2011 by Aloysius the Gaul because: sort out quotes and some spelling



posted on Feb, 3 2011 @ 05:55 PM
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reply to post by tommyjo
 


So your saying that when I'm viewing a horizonal trail that because of my perspective it may really be verticle.

So I'll repeat my question.....Why would a trail be verticle? Genius.



posted on Feb, 3 2011 @ 05:56 PM
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this is perfect picture examples of what i see in the sky.
what the hell is going on



posted on Feb, 3 2011 @ 06:00 PM
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Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul
I didn't ignore it - I asked what your point is?

There is no evidence that the US govt is currently using any chemical or biological weapons on it's population that I know of.

Certainly it and other govt's have done so to their populations in the past and are now roundly condemned for doing so - how does that make it acceptable?


what if its just a "weapon" and the use of it causes negative effects on earth and everything on it.
i think this is more then a biological or chemical weapon. i do believe that this is poison they are spraying none the less.
edit on 3-2-2011 by JayXBraun because: typo



posted on Feb, 3 2011 @ 06:06 PM
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reply to post by TorqueyThePig
 


I just observed a jet climbing over miami the contrails dissipated in less than two minutes ( this was right before dusk) Below him another jet was blowing a trail that was twice as wide and miles and miles long, two hours later it is now that whispy cloud. So yea, contrails dissapate quickly and completly and these other things don't.



posted on Feb, 3 2011 @ 06:21 PM
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reply to post by krakalaka
 


As I read it he's saying that a contrail that starts on the horizon and goes directly overhead looks vertical even tho the trail itself is horizontal.

the explaination of perspective is given on contrail science - if you want to understand his point then you really should go look at it, and if yuo aren't going to bother with it then you've pretty much signed out of serious discussion



posted on Feb, 3 2011 @ 06:23 PM
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Originally posted by krakalaka
reply to post by TorqueyThePig
 


I just observed a jet climbing over miami the contrails dissipated in less than two minutes ( this was right before dusk) Below him another jet was blowing a trail that was twice as wide and miles and miles long, two hours later it is now that whispy cloud. So yea, contrails dissapate quickly and completly and these other things don't.


How do you know what altitudes they were at?



posted on Feb, 3 2011 @ 06:24 PM
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For the last three days the south florida airports have been at a standstill but the chemtrailers have been super busy! I'm just wondering if we have saw our last beautiful clear blue sky? I'm sur the tourists are gonna line up to see the pretty lines in the sky!



posted on Feb, 3 2011 @ 06:25 PM
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Originally posted by JayXBraun

Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul
I didn't ignore it - I asked what your point is?

There is no evidence that the US govt is currently using any chemical or biological weapons on it's population that I know of.

Certainly it and other govt's have done so to their populations in the past and are now roundly condemned for doing so - how does that make it acceptable?


what if its just a "weapon" and the use of it causes negative effects on earth and everything on it.
i think this is more then a biological or chemical weapon. i do believe that this is poison they are spraying none the less.


I'm sorry but I have no idea what you mean.

There is not a single piece of verifiable evidence that "they" are "spraying" anything at all, so to start with the presumption that somethign is being sprayed is to fit the "evidence" to the conclusion.



posted on Feb, 3 2011 @ 06:29 PM
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Originally posted by krakalaka
reply to post by tommyjo
 


So your saying that when I'm viewing a horizonal trail that because of my perspective it may really be verticle.

So I'll repeat my question.....Why would a trail be verticle? Genius.


Yes, because it is an illusion. If you flying directly alongside that aircraft the contrail would be horizontal.

You are not the first to be confused by an apparent vertical contrail.

'Why do very distant airplane contrails appear to be nearly vertical?'

answers.yahoo.com...

'Seemingly vertical contrail appearing to rise from the horizon against blue sky'

www.shutterstock.com...

Head on airliner contrail



Side on of the same contrail from further along the coast.



TJ



posted on Feb, 3 2011 @ 06:31 PM
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reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul
 


I used a yard stick. I said the pilot at the higher alltitudes contrail dissapated the other much lower didn't. you guys clinging to the altitude thing need to go outside and look.



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