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The Atheist Alternative: The 10 Commandments.

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posted on Jan, 29 2011 @ 09:10 AM
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We always hear religios folk stating that Religion is the basis for all morality.

Could an atheist could improve the 10 Commandments?

What if these newly updated rules improved the solidarity between those with belief and non-belief?

Shouldn't religious teaching be improved? (Especially teaching that is immoral or unfit for a stable society?)

Please see Christopher Hitchens suggestions for improving the religious commands:-



This video shows that human thinking evolves and improves over time, Religion generally remains absolute, as it is alledgedly the "Word of GOD"......

Why would you want to change that? For the better maybe?

I think this stands to show that religion is a construct of early man, not God.
edit on 29/1/11 by awake_and_aware because: (no reason given)




posted on Jan, 29 2011 @ 09:13 AM
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Great video. Hutchins always makes me think, and that's a good thing. I totally agree with you that it's a construct of humans.

Overall, though I think all humans really need is the Golden Rule to make this world a better place. And that's not really tied to any religion at all...just common decency, which is a lot harder to argue about and wage wars over.

Thanks for posting this S&F
edit on 1/29/2011 by ~Lucidity because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 29 2011 @ 09:14 AM
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My opinion is that religion was started by ET's.

As for ten commandments... Who needs them when we have the three Laws? Take a look at this thread for an idea:

www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Jan, 29 2011 @ 09:23 AM
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reply to post by ~Lucidity
 


Thanks for your comments and star. Although i think the "Golden Rule" is generally a great code to follow; we have to consider that this rule is only as good as the preacher. It's relative.

For what about Charles Manson? This is something Christopher Hitchens has mentioned in regards to objective or absolute "rules" or morales. The Golden Rule is not relative to us when preached by a sado-masochist (for example)

This video best explains my point there.

Again, thanks for posting. It's nice to see like-minded people sharing opinions too.

Peace
edit on 29/1/11 by awake_and_aware because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 29 2011 @ 09:26 AM
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reply to post by awake_and_aware
 


Applause..my favorite is he explanation of number 6... We are all part of the giant ecological system we call-earth-terra-gaia-planet..
thanks op-interesting and uplifting start to my day..

edit on 29-1-2011 by yesIAM because: spelled my as may, instead of my



posted on Jan, 29 2011 @ 09:33 AM
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reply to post by awake_and_aware
 

You're absolutely correct about it being relative. Sociopaths and psychopaths would be a problem here. But that's really an issue with religion and atheism too, isn't? So it's still hands down better than the shackles of religion.

Also, you might be interested in the Native American Ten Commandments.

1. Treat the earth an all that dwell theron with respect
2. Remain close to the Great Spirit
3. Show great respect for your fellow beings
4. Work together for the benefit of all humankind
5. Give assistance and kindness wherever needed
6. Do what you know to be right
7. Look after the well-being of mind and body
8. Dedicate a share of your efforts to the greater good
9. Be truthful and honest at all times
10. Take full responsibility for your actions




edit on 1/29/2011 by ~Lucidity because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 29 2011 @ 09:51 AM
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reply to post by ~Lucidity
 


Interesting thought on the Native ten commandments. Some say that Native people were the first to inhabit planet earth and if that is the case. Then "heah" they got it right the first time a religious institution was established here on earth.

This issue humans needs to be aware of, is through all the years of our existence and as we all multiple, a structure is set forth, such as a social institution that formulates our boundaries and laws. Human beings for some reason like to follow a structure and have the need for a sense of belonging. The ten commandments of structure according to the religious institution of that time, are completely outdated for this present time.

Has anyone ever pondered what social institutions should run a planet, or the flip side of this question could this planet run without a social institution that formulates boundaries and laws.



posted on Jan, 29 2011 @ 09:58 AM
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reply to post by ~Lucidity
 


Thanks very much, that's really interesting too. There are many religions which have very timid and honest philosophy, Bhuddism for example. I'm not sure if Taoism is technically a "religion" but they have some meaniful philosophy and moral codes.

Myself, i just don't see the need for the dogma and metaphysical claims that cause fear or false hope. (Hell, Heaven, reincarnation, sins, prayers)

Again, thanks. I'm not saying that just because it's old, it's out-of-date, Those Native American commandments still seem relevant today


reply to post by yesIAM
 


Thanks very much for your kind coments - Glad i could bring about a good start to your day, have a good one



Also,



This issue humans needs to be aware of, is through all the years of our existence and as we all multiple, a structure is set forth, such as a social institution that formulates our boundaries and laws. Human beings for some reason like to follow a structure and have the need for a sense of belonging.


Very interesting point to raise, couldn't agree more.

There are far more sophisticated means now of forming a community of understanding without the need to invoke the supernatural.
edit on 29/1/11 by awake_and_aware because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 29 2011 @ 10:21 AM
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Originally posted by awake_and_aware
reply to post by ~Lucidity
 




There are far more sophisticated means now of forming a community of understanding without the need to invoke the supernatural.
edit on 29/1/11 by awake_and_aware because: (no reason given)


Yeah, I agree. I believe understanding comes through the key word "knowledge".What many of religious cults and its followers seem to lack is a piece called factual evidence. People need to wake up and stop following blindly based on assumptions, for following blindly can many times lead astray from the actual truth based on facts. But the argument of those following blindly will say is that is called faith. Hmmmm poeple in charge of the social institutions always seem to have the answer, so their stream of power stays streaming, and the golden answer for non-factual evidence is always just have faith

Maybe people should just have their faith in facts, instead of supernatural which leads from a conflict perspective of power distribution.
I like your post OP...



posted on Jan, 29 2011 @ 10:33 AM
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Interesting post my friend. I found his Ten Commandments interesting, yet tyrannical in their own right. They are missing a certain element, a common thread, which even eluded Moses version.

If I were to revamp the system, I would not model mine on the same old dust of dead prophets. I would keep it simple.

One Law.

Love One Another.

With Love,

Your Brother



posted on Jan, 29 2011 @ 10:39 AM
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reply to post by awake_and_aware
 


Well, any hope that he was going to be making a serious dent in Old Testament theology went right out the window when he tossed up that "list" of contradictory commandments in the Bible -- the Ten Commandments are what they are held to be -- the "alternative" verses that he cites are on other matters, it is a matter of sloppy reading that might lead one to this conclusion (there is a recent thread here on ATS about this very thing.)

Of course, his suggested replacements are laughable.


Do not imagine that you can escape judgment if you rob people with a false prospectus rather than with a knife.


Why not? It happens all the time. "Do not imagine" that you won't get away with white collar crime? Absolute idiocy, never mind that the commandment is "do not imagine", which means nothing.


Turn off that ******* cell phone—you have no idea how unimportant your call is to us.


Awesome idea -- we're limited to ten commandments, let's waste one on something that is a personal annoyance, and likely only that for a few decades.


I appreciate the fact that this is intended as satire, but Hitchens is so pompous and full of himself, it's clear that he takes this a bit more seriously than he should.

The Ten Commandments, which are distilled into Christ's Two Commandments have something very basic at their root, and that is the real message of faith. It's also at the root of the Native American Commandments, and to a large extent, even in Hitchens' satirical commandments (how can an atheist have "commandments"? Under whose authority are such things commanded?)

The message is to stop putting ourselves first. To put the consideration of others ahead of our own desires. That is contrary to human nature, and even when we know it is right, we still struggle to do it. I was walking through a neighbourhood park this morning, and watched two older men, one of them with a walker, going through the park, picking up trash. I looked around, and realized what a task they were undertaking, because the whole park was chock full of garbage. They respected their neighbourhood, and that park, so much that they would spend their Saturday mornings trying to clean up after those who did not.

There's nothing in Hitchens' commandments, or even the Ten, that says that those two elderly men were right, and the slobs who threw their garbage all over the place were wrong, but when you get down to the heart of the matter (which is covered by Christ's words,) selflessly caring for others is what makes a saint. Turning off your cell phone does not.

And about the only question that I have after watching the video is "what does this guy do, comb his hair with a chicken bone?"



posted on Jan, 29 2011 @ 10:47 AM
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Originally posted by adjensen
reply to post by awake_and_aware
 


And about the only question that I have after watching the video is "what does this guy do, comb his hair with a chicken bone?"

Funny....!!!!! I was wondering what was up with his hair



posted on Jan, 29 2011 @ 10:49 AM
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reply to post by adjensen
 



(how can an atheist have "commandments"? Under whose authority are such things commanded?)


Godless atheists have morals!?!?




posted on Jan, 29 2011 @ 10:51 AM
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reply to post by adjensen
 



Do not imagine that you can escape judgment if you rob people with a false prospectus rather than with a knife.



Why not? It happens all the time. "Do not imagine" that you won't get away with white collar crime? Absolute idiocy, never mind that the commandment is "do not imagine", which means nothing.


Of course it happens all the time, It's deception and fraud. Opportunists are guilty of it. If they think they can fool someone they will; whether it be by Fortune Telling, Tarot Card Reading, Psycic "Powers" or Mediums. If people think they can fool people, and get away with it, they will. This should be considered as bad as robbing someone with a knife. I couldn't agree more with this command.

Basically stop deception and theivery, even if it is not by "force".

Regarding the "turn that mobile phone off" - I think that was a slight "personal" touch from Christopher Hitchens.

And of course, he doesn't mean that these commandments should be written in "stone" - He's just showing that you can always update and revise immoral or unethical commandments, Probably even his!.


what does this guy do, comb his hair with a chicken bone?


LOL .
edit on 29/1/11 by awake_and_aware because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 29 2011 @ 10:55 AM
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Originally posted by Whyhi
reply to post by adjensen
 



(how can an atheist have "commandments"? Under whose authority are such things commanded?)


Godless atheists have morals!?!?



Oh ho ho, it's rediculous isn't it? How could someone who doesn't believe in invisible entities have morals?

It's one thing to claim there is a God, but to go further and claim you know his desires.....fraud.



posted on Jan, 29 2011 @ 11:15 AM
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Originally posted by awake_and_aware
If people think they can fool people, and get away with it, they will. This should be considered as bad as robbing someone with a knife. I couldn't agree more with this command.


I wholeheartedly agree that theft is theft, regardless of whether it is violent in nature or not. But that isn't what it says. Contrast "Do not steal" with "Do not imagine that you can escape judgment if you rob people with a false prospectus rather than with a knife." The first is plain and clean -- do not steal. The second is vague and pointless. Under Hitchens' ten commandments, it's fine and dandy to steal, just don't think that you'll get away with it.


Do not condemn people on the basis of their ethnicity or color.

Do not condemn people for their inborn nature.


In thinking it through, here's the root of what is patently offensive by what he's saying. We are not to think poorly for what people are -- the colour of their skin or their inherent nature (I wonder how that works into people who are born with psychopathic mental illnesses, but I digress,) and I am in complete agreement. But I don't need two commandments to tell me that -- loving my neighbour as myself accommodates it nicely.

But my Christian Commandments also accommodate what Hitchens does not -- tolerance for people who choose to be different. I was not born a Christian, I chose to be one. Hitchens (and others) feel free to ridicule me and my beliefs, because I choose to disagree with them. In other words:

Treat those who can't be like you, through no fault of their own, equally. There is no such requirement for those who can be like you, but choose not to be.

There is something very wrong in that way of thinking, and it goes beyond simple parody and nitpicking.



posted on Jan, 29 2011 @ 11:17 AM
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reply to post by adjensen
 


Hitchens doesn't mean these commandments should be considered "absolute" - His argument was that Christian and other ancient "commands" can be improved with more civil and ethical understandings.


But my Christian Commandments also accommodate what Hitchens does not -- tolerance for people who choose to be different.


1 and 2, my friend, 1 and 2.



posted on Jan, 29 2011 @ 11:20 AM
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Originally posted by awake_and_aware

Originally posted by Whyhi
reply to post by adjensen
 



(how can an atheist have "commandments"? Under whose authority are such things commanded?)


Godless atheists have morals!?!?



Oh ho ho, it's rediculous isn't it? How could someone who doesn't believe in invisible entities have morals?

It's one thing to claim there is a God, but to go further and claim you know his desires.....fraud.


Applause to you OP at the highest level!!!! I agree!!!

What makes these individuals think that morals are based from religion. OOOHhhh I know, assumptions. Assumptions that base off faith and the system that controls their faith!!!! Now fact would show, human beings learn morals from their cultural norms and values, and through the experiences there after.

Everyday people in power, line their pockets by leading people to believe in false entities. Everyday people die and kill in the name of their false entities. What makes these religious followers believe this is right? Shall we say the answer is their faith. I call that ludicrous! Who are you, fellow followers of entities, to call someone who does not follow a assumed fiction, a person of no morals? May you please review followers of religion,what morals are when people die everyday due to yours?



posted on Jan, 29 2011 @ 11:27 AM
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Originally posted by awake_and_aware
reply to post by adjensen
 


Hitchens doesn't mean these commandments should be considered "absolute" - His argument was that Christian and other ancient "commands" can be improved with more civil and ethical understandings.


But my Christian Commandments also accommodate what Hitchens does not -- tolerance for people who choose to be different.


1 and 2, my friend, 1 and 2.


Well, since #1 and #2 according to Hitchens have no practical application, I'm assuming that you mean #1 and #2 of the Ten Commandments, which are Commandments for believers. If you don't want to be a believer, don't follow them, simple enough.

But, as I said, I am of the belief that Christ's Two Commandments, love God and love everyone else like yourself, are the heart of the matter, and that is where tolerance is found. Regardless of whether I think that you are right or wrong, I respect you enough to allow that to be your decision, it's not my affair whether you agree with me or not. If you misstate something, that's one thing, but I would never say that you aren't entitled to your opinion.

Agree or disagree, I do not belittle people for their beliefs, claim that they are fools because they don't see things the way that I do, or insinuate that the world would be a better place without them. All of which I have had thrown in my face, by Hitchens and others, simply because I choose to be different.



posted on Jan, 29 2011 @ 11:29 AM
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Originally posted by yesIAM
Who are you, fellow followers of entities, to call someone who does not follow a assumed fiction, a person of no morals?


Where did I say that you had no morals? I questioned the use of term "commandment", as this word refers to something coming from an authority. If you want to say that your source of moral authority is Christopher Hitchens, that's fine, I was just asking the question.



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