Is Grand Theft Auto 4 too Violent?

This subject has been covered multiple times before in the Media, but i want to see what the general ATS audience think of games like this.

I understand some member dont play video games, so they have probaly heard of GTA 4 but have not seen any proper gameplay.

What is GTA 4?

Quite like its predecessors, the core gameplay of GTA IV consists of giving the player a large, open world environment in which to move around freely. On foot, the player character can walk, run, jump, climb over obstacles and swim, as well as use weapons and perform basic hand-to-hand combat. Players can steal and drive a variety of vehicles, including automobiles, boats, helicopters, and motorcycles. Grand Theft Auto IV takes advantage of Natural Motion's Euphoria engine, which combines artificial intelligence, bio-mechanics and physics to make NPC behaviour and movement adaptive and more realistic.

So thats the basic overview, now where the argument starts coming in, is this game too violent?

I tell no lies, i have found myself sitting there whilst playing and thinking "Oh Jeeez this is pretty disgusting"

I used to play Grand Theft Auto 3 when i was 12

The following video is Grand Theft Auto 3, notice the graphics aernt realistic, neither are the physics.



There isnt a shock factor for this game, because of how unrealistic it is.

Now moving over to GTA4, this game is a huge step up from those days, the game is realistic, the driving physics, and character movements. All thanks to the Europhia Engine

Natural Motion's Euphoria engine, which combines artificial intelligence, bio-mechanics and physics to make NPC behaviour and movement adaptive and more realistic.

Thats right, each Artificial Pedestrian in GTA4 has there own AI Nervous system, shoot someone in the spinal cord and they will fall to the floor disabled (but still alive i might add) shoot someone in the heart and they will die instantly, including headshots aswell.

It wasnt untill i started really looking into the physics of the game i didnt understand how real they have tried to make it. The followinf video is demonstrating the physics engine GTA4 uses


Yes you read that correctly, GTA4 Pedestrians also have a virtual skeleton and virtual muscles. Meaning a more realistic killing experience, moving on to my own video i made demonstrating how realistic the shooting is.

The video you are about to see is the Europhia engine in action, making the pedestrians being shot as behaving as realistic as possible to bullet impacts.



And onto another youtube video (not made by me)


In conclusion are games heading into the direction of being too realistic? What will games like grand theft auto be like in 10 years time? Virtual Reality GTA?

I am by no means condeming games like GTA4, i am a HUGE gamer myself and have played each GTA all my life, its a work of pure technical genius. But should games refrain from being realistic in favour for fun?

I really made this thread to give people who havnt played GTA a oversight to what the game actually involves.

Is it a work of technical genius?
Too realistic?
Should children aged 7-17 be playing this game? (i have seen children aged 7 play this game)

I do think its too violent to be honest with you, but thats why its rated M. the problem is whats on TV. They bleep out the F word and all his pals, but theyll show people get blown to bits no problem. I believe there was one thread from an angered mother saying 2 seconds after american idol ended they show someone head get blown to bits. I do believe we have been being desensitized for a long while now.

It's only a game, and actually i was playing it today....

I'm a bid kid at heart

But seriously it is only a game... if i had achild old enough to play but not yet old enough to understand it, i would discuss it with them and make sure they understand it's a game...

All GTA games have been violent, ever since the very first was released, they all promote car theft, gun fights and all the rest.

It's not much different from MOH, COD and the many many other games available, in some you wear an army unigorm and in some you are a civilian but it's the same, thats why they are rated. We all should know the difference between right and wrong and when something is a game and when something is unacceptable.

Games are games and reality is reality....

If someone is too young to understand the difference then they shouldnt be playing those games.

reply to post by iversusvsversusi


In the version i have they dont bleep out the f word or s word or even the word b---rd - i hope that makes sense.

I do have to admit the language in the latest version is shocking but the violence is the same all GTA versions, it is more graphic due to all games improving graphics levels....

But yeah the language is pretty bad, i dont mind so much, i can handle it, but i wouldnt want a child overhearing the game...

It's not only the language but context as well, have you heard some of the advertising on the GTA radio stations...it's insane.

I have a seven year old. This Christmas Santa got him a PS3. Right now, we are into archery, and activity games, though he wants HALO.
I'll reserve judgement when he finally gets around to GTA5.

Originally posted by Havick007
It's only a game, and actually i was playing it today....

I'm a bid kid at heart

But seriously it is only a game... if i had achild old enough to play but not yet old enough to understand it, i would discuss it with them and make sure they understand it's a game...

All GTA games have been violent, ever since the very first was released, they all promote car theft, gun fights and all the rest.

It's not much different from MOH, COD and the many many other games available, in some you wear an army unigorm and in some you are a civilian but it's the same, thats why they are rated. We all should know the difference between right and wrong and when something is a game and when something is unacceptable.

Games are games and reality is reality....

If someone is too young to understand the difference then they shouldnt be playing those games.

I understand where you are coming from and i agree that before we let our own children play we should discuss the issues with them.

Yes all GTA games have been violent, but back then it was unrealistic, the driving, and the shooting at innocent people was fun because they didnt die in a realistic manner.

In GTA 4 the pedestrians call out for help and beg not to be killed, with the old fashioned "I have a wife and kids" line. In games like call of duty your always shooting at the taliban or Neo Nazi Russians or just plain old Nazis, always the bad guys.

In GTA 4 you have the option to throw a Molotov Cocktail at old women and watch them roll around on the floor burning alive screaming.

reply to post by Haydn_17




No.... but it IS almost three years old?


Also games like this and COD and so on.... all have an 18 certificate, if parents let their kids play these games, that's up to them.
A kid couldn't buy the game so the parents must buy it..... would the parents rent an 8 year old the saw or hostel movies?

No?

So why are games different.

It's not the games, it's the parents who let little kids play them

reply to post by beezzer


Halo Rocks

I havent played the latest yet as my 360 sh...um crapped itself and i havent bothered getting another but Halo is awesome... good wholesome fun.... id rather be shooting at aliens that want to kill us, rather than our own species..

Halo does have swearing either. Although, you have a 7 year old and your playing Halo with them..? lol thats kinda funny, although ironically in a couple of years they will probably whip you in multiplayer... ahh kids these days

reply to post by blupblup


I agree, i don't think some parents understand how violent games can be.

Having sex with prostitutes in cars.

People saying "Ill rip your F---- Balls Off"

I think it depends on how mature your kids are.

Originally posted by Haydn_17
Should children aged 7-17 be playing this game? (i have seen children aged 7 play this game)

It's rated M (Mature) 17+.

That's why the esrb exists, if nobody bothers to enforce it, it's not the game or the designers faults.

Also, GTA4 has been out for years now, with the other "are video games too violent?" thread going right now I have to question the point of this one. Any and all arguments fail when people ignore the rating system that the game industry Self-Imposed.

And as a game designer I personally find it highly offensive every time someone complains about games being too violent or too realistic because they finally found their line. Perhaps, instead of taking it as a violent video game, you should look at the real world parallels and get upset about the kind of violence that games merely mimic.

reply to post by Havick007


He wants HALO. I haven't bought it for him yet. I have a more difficult challenge to overcome before I can buy it..

um, my wife.

reply to post by Haydn_17


yeah it's kinda nasty... i know.

Although each to thier own i guess. I mean when i feel like a street fight i normally try to pick the biggest badest looking guy. At leat im not being violent towards a grandma or even a lady for that matter. I couldnt bring myself to do it.

Although i have to admit i may have hit a couple of undserving people running read lights or driving crazy...

But also, there are some people you walk into and then they talk crap to you, man i turn around with a shotgun if they do that. Which they all do anyways...mostly.

I do have to agree, it is very violent - especially one of the mission where you have to kidnap the daughter of a mob-boss in GTA IV. I didnt like that part so much but just wanted to get past the stupid mission.

reply to post by beezzer


lol yup.

It is a good game though, but i dont know about a 7 year old, although im not gonna try to tell you how to raise your own child. It's all upto you

reply to post by Haydn_17


I would never play that sort of game. Its like a simulator. I played gta 1 i think, but that was a 2d game from above, and was no simulator.

Games today are too realistic for there own good, and also bad for people.

Makes me sick just watch vids of the game, why do people play those things, and the point of the game is crime and killing. Not for me.

I am 35 and would never play that game, or games like cod, and i have been passive all my life. I think there is a hint there, that something is done to condition people to violence, and its wanted by the ptb.

Hint i would never play this game, and i have been passive all my life, lol.

In a child or even a teens hands that doesn't know better, yes it's maybe too violent. But I believe it does rely a lot on the rents in teaching their kids right from wrong. GTA4 is a violent blood-fest but it IS only a game as stated before. I heard people like Wayne Brady love playing grand theft auto games because it let's you take out frustrations in a fictional world where you don't get in trouble except in the game. Its true, for someone with their head screwed on tight, they know what it is...no more, no less.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

No. Its a mafia game. Its supposed to be violent. I played it to completion last year and found it highly entertaining. Many games have realistic body motion of NPCs. Half Life 2 was the first I think (2004?)

I've been gaming for more than a quarter of a century now. Starting with a bat and ball 'TV Game'. Games get more realistic year on year. All this virtual violence hasn't instilled a need to behave in an anti social way.

It will continue and yes the end game is probably something approaching full VR. Well adjusted people will use it for entertainment (its an outlet for stress). Unbalanced people may continue to react badly.

As with everything else parental control of access to content is key.

Originally posted by andy1033
and the point of the game is crime and killing.

The point of the game is to tell the story; crime and violence just happen to be the vehicle the story rides in. American History X couldn't have been told without violence and racism, The Godfather couldn't have been told without violence and crime...

Life is one long often violent story and you complain about a video game...

I just got bored with it and stopped playing it.

It is too realistic but then again, I am an adult that can make decisions for myself.

It's great if you need to let off some steam but it's not something that I would do in real life.

with a 'M' rating for 17+ game, it's no worse than any other media for this age group.
the problem only carries forward to those who are below this age bracket, or to them that might allow someone who is younger to play such games.

Yes it is too violent for kids which are impressionable....but it is rated 18 so you have to blame the parents for allowing them to play it.

People think games are different to films....which they are not really. If a film is rated 18 it is rated so because its not suitable for younger audiences. These games are also rated yet parents dont seem to think that it applies to thier kids.

Irrisponsible parenting as far as im concerned, all because they want to keep their kids occupied whilst they do what they want.

They arent to violent for anyone over the age of 18