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What if the "elite" were attempting to do what they believed was best for everyone?

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posted on Jan, 28 2011 @ 10:34 PM
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reply to post by galadofwarthethird
 


You miss my point. I am not asking if these "elites" should be in charge, I am asking how we should organize society and who should be in charge. This whole thread has been fascinating, I don't believe in the Illuminati, lol. I believe there are always people in charge because you cannot organize anything without having people learn specialized skills and leadership is one of them.

I know a man that is a billionaire AND a 33rd degree Mason, he would appear to many that responded to this to be some sort of scary insider. He is the furthest thing from that, he joined the Masons purely for the networking. Whatever grand control scheme people assume exists is not. It is not about a bunch of reptillian, luciferian bloodlines. There are always elites because there are always people in charge.

How you organize society is how it is determined who rises to rule. These looney theories that I read here about how they want to kill everyone or poison us all are just that, crazy. There are always rulers because someone needs to have a plan and know how to execute it. Great, we get rid of the bad people in charge, what then? That is the question you miss. How do you organize society to prevent bad people from being in charge?




posted on Jan, 28 2011 @ 10:41 PM
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It's entirely possible that some of them might be convinced that they are attempting to do what they believe is best for everyone. In fact, people not among the elite support one or more of the globalist agendas because they're made to sound so good. One happy world, no borders, no strife. Or because those people too are greedy.

There's a fundamental problem here though. They don't decide anything for us. They don't own us. We're not their puppets or their slaves, no matter how it may appear or what they think. They may be richer or more powerful for now, but that means squat. And they will never truly control us. At least not all of us. End of story.
edit on 1/29/2011 by ~Lucidity because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 28 2011 @ 10:41 PM
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communist , marxist , left , right conservative labour . democracy
such "varied" choice yet always the same result .
maybe their all the same thing and just serve to artificially provide "options "? surely not ? ????? _PAWNS BRAINWASHED to attack other PAWNS because of politics , race , class religion .
wake up you dont have to be a PAWN . stop playing the game , you will never win your not supposed to win!



posted on Jan, 28 2011 @ 10:44 PM
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Originally posted by AQuestion
reply to post by galadofwarthethird
 


There are always rulers because someone needs to have a plan and know how to execute it. Great, we get rid of the bad people in charge, what then? That is the question you miss. How do you organize society to prevent bad people from being in charge?


by having N0 rulers, BY having people who do jobs but have NO power over other people.

people vote on EVERY issue, NOT a single person IN CHARGE.

that's how you do it. but we all know that will NEVER happen, because those in CHARGE make all the decisions and would NOT allow it.



posted on Jan, 28 2011 @ 10:50 PM
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Maintain humanity under 500,000,000 in perpetual balance with nature.

Guide reproduction wisely - improving fitness and diversity.

Unite humanity with a living new language.

Rule passion - faith - tradition - and all things with tempered reason.

Protect people and nations with fair laws and just courts.

Let all nations rule internally resolving external disputes in a world court.

Avoid petty laws and useless officials.

Balance personal rights with social duties.

Prize truth - beauty - love - seeking harmony with the infinite.

Be not a cancer on the earth - Leave room for nature - Leave room for nature


is all ok with me. Hope managment is going to go in that direction.



posted on Jan, 28 2011 @ 10:53 PM
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reply to post by Bluesquid
 


some of that is how we started and look how it is ending.

wasn't america founded on some of those principles?



posted on Jan, 28 2011 @ 10:54 PM
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reply to post by AQuestion
 


These looney theories that I read here about how they want to kill everyone or poison us all are just that, crazy.
Really ? ???????

Even though they frikkinsay it in public ? ?
Even though they write reports that say it ?
Even though right now americans and their enemies are getting slaughtered ?
Even though nicotine and alcohol are causing daily deaths and its legal ?
Even though the georgia guidestones say it ???
Even though Hitller tried it and was financed by wall street ?????
Even though the gvmnt has been caught creating lethal diseases ???
Even though the water has flouride in it ?????
Even though the gvmnt smuggles heroine and coc aine into America ????
REALLY ?
Im out of here , too many brainwashed PAWNS !!
edit on 28-1-2011 by TheGhostViking because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 28 2011 @ 10:58 PM
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reply to post by lifeform11
 


Thats the georgia guidestones mate and they dress up the fact that they advocate genocide by putting the rest of that crap AFTER the genocide part lmao .



posted on Jan, 28 2011 @ 11:02 PM
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Guide reproduction wisely - improving fitness and diversity. translation ? kill the weak .
a world court. NWO
Unite humanity with a living new language.
only 1 language = nwo .



posted on Jan, 28 2011 @ 11:09 PM
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reply to post by TheGhostViking
 


yeah i know, my point is though if they see that as the perfect way to run the world, some of it has already been tried. some of those principles sound the same that america was founded upon, can the same truly be said about them now?

seems to me we as a race are just going around in circles. we start with a system that works, then along come those who are in CHARGE and mess it all up again, then there will be these discussions like we are having now, about cleansing the world and starting again.

if the geogia guild stones happen, somebody who is power hungry centuries later will be against those principles and eventually get into power and 'change' the way of thinking to accept changes for the 'good' of humanity and thus move civilization away from the starting principles and back to the way we are now.

round and round we go.


edit on 28-1-2011 by lifeform11 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 28 2011 @ 11:16 PM
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"They" dont hang out on forums trying to figure it all out. Im putting my faith in god, and letting him sort it all out. oh, and Im learning esperanto.



posted on Jan, 28 2011 @ 11:21 PM
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What happens when a society does not have a ruling elite?


Are we talking about the "Elite" who selflessly fought to found a Fair and Just Government?

Or are we talking about the "Elite" who used old European moneys, Clandestine methodology, and outright criminal acts to usurp control of the nation?


Anarchists did not create the education system, government, business or anything else.


Neither did the "Elite" or the NWO.


In political science there is one iron clad rule, it is the iron clad rule of oligarchy.


Where are you getting this "Iron clad rule" from anyways? What textbook? What course? What teacher told you this?


There was a great video, maybe someone can post a link, of a woman in Chicago celebrating Obama's election. She said something akin to she wouldn't have to work anymore and would get everything for free.


Okaaayyy....


What is the "tea party" all about, is it about freedom, no, it is about taxes.


Yeeeaaaaahhh....


When over half the population believes that torture is okay when used on "terrorists" we can see what people really believe.


Let me get this straight....

The "Elite" subvert the educational system, they use mass media propaganda to stupefy Americans... and you are blaming their Machinations on.. Human Nature?

Sure... Human nature that our "Elite" (as you call them) have fallen for, and are completely ruining human civilization for.

Yeah....


There are so many threads on the illuminati, the New World Order, Masons and the people in control.


Welcome to ATS.


If they invited most people to join, they would, just to get the goodies.


Really?

Are you judging the entirety of humanity as monsters then?

No-one has a solid moral core, and everyone has their price, eh?


The Eastern Mystery Schools and all the traditions of the groups mentioned are not evil at heart, they are based on ruling people in a methodical manner.


No... they are based on personal alchemy... not ruling people... ruling yourself.


Historically, "good rulers" were raised to view their subjects as children.


The founding Fathers of the United States of America did not do this, and it has taken at least 200 YEARS for the global elite to corrupt this nation.

Make of that what you will.


The leaders ruled with a carrot and stick approach because it was the only thing that worked.


Clearly....



Plato believed that the person best suited should rule. Aristotle believed in a form of democracy. He did not believe the majority was "good" he just thought the elite should have as many people involved as possible. Aristotle believed that the leaders of all forms of "government" would eventually put their own wants above those of the people they ruled. The basics of humanity and society have not changed and history continues to prove itself.


So, you are arguing that since humanity is inherently Evil and self centered, that we might as well allow the most self centered of us to rule all of us for their own benefit then?



...most people make little effort to understand.


We may live in a world where we are controlled...


Like our educational system you mean?

Ya, that's the ticket... our elite make concerted decade long plans to corrupt our educational system... let's blame the citizens for that.




Without leadership we would have no streets, no sewage facilities, no electricity and no mass distribution of food or water.


So, you are saying that without the Global Plutocratic ELITE, we would have no ROADS?

Honestly...



Oh, just so that we are absolutely clear here...

Leadership =/= The Elite


Please do not misunderstand, I am not a cheerleader for the world's current leadership or direction.


There is NO misunderstanding here.


The title was something like "Population Stabilization". It was not about starving or killing everyone, it was about promoting birth control, population control and stability.


Yeah, exactly... that explains why instead of enlightening the population of the world to the problems that humanity faces, they take it upon themselves to keep the populous in perpetual controlled ignorance "For their own Good"

Ya.... Right.




Look at "Road Rules", "The Real World", "Survivor" and how people act on these shows.


Ya, veritable Crem de la Crem there.....





If you have ever been to a rave you see what people are like


You, are talking..... about.... Dancing?

You are judging people.... because of a dance?

Really?

LOL!


want them to rule the world, unrestrained and high as a kite, only concerned with sex and drugs.


There are so many ways to respond to this one.... let me think:

A. You mean our current leadership being high as a kite most of the time, and only concerned with their own pleasures? yeah.... they suck

B. So.... when people go to a dance hall to hang out and party... that is a good indication for how they behave in ALL instances? Yeah... that's not a Logical Fallacy at all, is it?

C. Really? You are going to pick the world leadership... from a Rave? LOL!


What if the ruling elite was trying to keep things in order


I would imagine that they would hire people to speak on their behalf as a form of public relations.


Jesus called us sheep because we are.


Jesus didn't want to kill off 90% of us.

And he also wanted us to be educated, and aware, and you know.... moral.

Are you really comparing... the Global Elite who want to DEPOPULATE THE WORLD.... to JESUS CHRIST?

REALLY!?

wow....


I'm speechless.


Prior to the housing market collapse, millions of people bought houses they could not afford with the sole intent of selling them and getting free money.


Prior to the housing bubble collapse, hundreds of banks took advantage of loopholes in banking regulations to extend mortgages to people who were not previously allowed to have mortgages, and then sold these mortgages to other nations as "AAA Rated" investment funds, despite the fact that they were nothing but....

Keep blaming the victims for the murder... keep on doing it.


They were like kids in a candy shop and exhibited no restraint.


Yes, you are right, there WAS no restraint, because the ELITE BANKERS payed our politicians MILLIONS of dollars to REMOVE those restraints so that they could make BILLIONS and TRILLIONS of dollars.

Nice.


As the economy continues to collapse we see people fighting over the last crumbs like wild wolverines. We see the corruption of the police, churches, all parts of industry and that should tell us why we need leadership that is better than us.


The Elite Cause all of this.

Period.


I expect this thread will anger many, good.


I am not angry..... But it is *I* Who am MAD!!!!! (+20 points if you can guess where that quote came from)


The question is not whether or not our current form of government is good, it is a question of what should we replace it with.


We don't HAVE a government.... we have a Corporate Elite Plutocratic Oligarchy, claiming to be a Democracy or republic, in order to leave a bad taste in our mouths, while they blame ALL the ills of the world (THAT THEY CAUSED) on OUR FREE WILL.

Period.



posted on Jan, 28 2011 @ 11:41 PM
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reply to post by FarArcher
 


Dear FarArcher,

I think I understand you better now. I love the part about getting rid of the xxxx with an enema, nice analogy. I just don't believe it is possible. I understand the sentiment, "Can't we just get rid of the garbage and do it right". I don't believe we can and many have tried. Problem is that we are still just people and all of us are screw ups. All over this website and others is this frantic fear and irrational belief in a great evil plan to kill us all and throw us into fema camps.

The internet has allowed the average person to understand that the world is governed in a more cooperative manner than people believed. It is called diplomacy. They now know that economies are also manipulated, that is called warfare. People are not told everything because they would overreact and force their government to go to war more often than needed. Diplomats do not react emotionally and leaders cannot, options need to be weighed. Heavy ways the crown of England, that is the life of a leader. Look at the pictures of any president and you will see that they age more in 4 years than anyone else. The one's that don't were the worst.

The Rothchilds do not run everything in the world. The elites change and governments change. The world is not a pyramid, those are symbols and the people that use them don't understand. We are at war with ourselves not an elite. The world is made up of greedy people with competing interests, something must regulate such things. My question is how shall we regulate ourselves and when should we give up authority to those better suited to manage.



posted on Jan, 28 2011 @ 11:54 PM
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reply to post by AQuestion
 





You miss my point. I am not asking if these "elites" should be in charge, I am asking how we should organize society and who should be in charge. This whole thread has been fascinating, I don't believe in the Illuminati, lol. I believe there are always people in charge because you cannot organize anything without having people learn specialized skills and leadership is one of them.


I believe that we should appoint my cat as supreme ruler of the earth. The organizing will be like this. My CAT, on top ME bellow the cat, because I feed her and thats hard work. Bellow me should be all the secret societies and Illuminati and shadow governments, and bellow that, the rest of society, you know the salt of the earth your fellow man, and bellow that should be dogs, because dogs cant be trusted, or better yet we should outlaw dogs all together.

And learning specialized skills of leadership is not possible, because as anybody who has not lived in a fancy mansion and been papered for all his life can tell you. Life and the universe has a habit of throwing curve-balls at you, and sometimes those balls are the size of Texas. Cant learn before hand, what will happen in the future, and all fancy speeches are just pissing in the wind when the time comes.

Your learning leadership thing to me as as useful as taking a fortune cookie as fact for what would happen, or how things should be, only the cookie has a better potential for unbiased opinion. One thing I have observed is that lots of people that say they know whats up, or this how it will go down, or this is what it will be like in civilization in the future and you must listen to me. Is that they are usually 99% of the time.... wrong. So like I said in the other post, not my problem. They got people who get paid for doing such things, so let them do there job, and if they cant, then find somebody else who thinks he can, and we will see how it goes from there. And so it will go, should be interesting.



I know a man that is a billionaire AND a 33rd degree Mason, he would appear to many that responded to this to be some sort of scary insider. He is the furthest thing from that, he joined the Masons purely for the networking. Whatever grand control scheme people assume exists is not. It is not about a bunch of reptillian, luciferian bloodlines. There are always elites because there are always people in charge.


I don't know what a mason really is, but I heard that word before on this site. But anyways as long as they do what they are supposed to do, I don't care. Whatever masons do that is. And all that about reptillian and luciferian bloodlines is bull. I told you my cat is on the top of this pyramid the cat does all the planing, you all just follow along, and if you don't I guess I could persuade you to do that.



How you organize society is how it is determined who rises to rule. These looney theories that I read here about how they want to kill everyone or poison us all are just that, crazy. There are always rulers because someone needs to have a plan and know how to execute it.

Yes your right "how you organize society is how it is determined who rises to rule" Because those who organize society always make themselves as the rulers that will always rise, duh what else would be the point of organizing societies at all if not as so you could rule? Thats the whole point of having rulers, to rule over others I mean what else are they good for? Now in the above that I wrote I said how it should go, so don't need for more explaining on that part. So now that we are in agreement we all need to bow down to my cat.



Great, we get rid of the bad people in charge, what then? That is the question you miss. How do you organize society to prevent bad people from being in charge?

What is that a joke "bad people" if you believe in bad people then you must believe in good people as well......I have just been informed by my cat that there is no such thing as bad or good people, there are only people. And you all are equally inferior before my cats eyes. And since there are no good or bad people then you don't need to organize anything so as to prevent these "bad" people from being in charge.

Ok Ok heres an answer you can understand. First you get some of these good people there should be plenty around, shouldn't be to hard to find, then you let them try there way, if it works then you let it work. Then when they become bad people you fire them or get rid of them, and then you get some good people again. And rinse and repeat, every time it's needed.
Any more questions. That was not a question this is? notice the question mark.



posted on Jan, 29 2011 @ 12:07 AM
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reply to post by lifeform11
 





by having N0 rulers, BY having people who do jobs but have NO power over other people. people vote on EVERY issue, NOT a single person IN CHARGE. that's how you do it. but we all know that will NEVER happen, because those in CHARGE make all the decisions and would NOT allow it.


So what your saying is you want no rulers over you, but you want somebody to make all those ruling decisions for you so you can know what you should do.
Done... you wish has come true... It can even be done so as you believe that your vote counts, or even that it does not count. Now which hand do you want the monitoring chip to be implanted in, your left hand? or your right hand? Just messing.....you don't get to chose which hand.
Nah just messing.



posted on Jan, 29 2011 @ 12:54 AM
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reply to post by galadofwarthethird
 


er.. no i am saying everybody should have a say, or be in agreement before any changes are made. everybody decides whats best, with NO rulers.

ie: not one man who decides everything, but everybody. the people are in charge not a few. but it would have to be localized to match the needs of that local area one rule does not fit all area's or is against the needs of certain area's.



posted on Jan, 29 2011 @ 12:58 AM
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I agree with Ertainagia.

The "Elite" in America don't care about Americans.

Look at Colin Powell. Americans pay him a military retirement check.

He went on Live National TV and declared he uses his military retirement check to hire illegal aliens to work on his home instead of Americans.

That's a FELONY...admitted to on National TV. He doesn't care, he won't be held liable in a court of law. He's part of the elite.

Look at General Wesley Clark, he swore an oath to protect Americans. He released US Army ordinance to the FBI who used it to burn innocent women and children to death at Waco.

Now do you see how the "elite" think of Americans? They are only out for their own interests. They'll kill you. They HAVE BEEN killing innocent Americans.



posted on Jan, 29 2011 @ 02:12 AM
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"burn' is an interesting term.

I would burn 1 million ats posters to galvanize humanity against extinction.

I think thats what TPTB are doing, and Im ok with it. So many petty, trite people that cant be educated on this planet.

I have guns. Im picked on, people saying I will do something crazy. My guns are defense against the real crazy people.

the transition is coming, and i accept it. My grandfather owned a sawmill and said trees were being cut, but not re seeded. He would say the opposite now. Too many people, not enough good timber to harvest.



posted on Jan, 29 2011 @ 02:13 AM
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they ARE. you can't make an omelette without breaking eggs.



posted on Jan, 29 2011 @ 09:28 AM
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Originally posted by AQuestion
I am not saying I believe this, I am asking the question. What happens when a society does not have a ruling elite? People tend to be even more selfish and harsh with one another. Anarchists did not create the education system, government, business or anything else. In political science there is one iron clad rule, it is the iron clad rule of oligarchy. It means that all societies are eventually run by a small group of elite.


I disagree. Without money, people help one another (read "A Paradise Built in Hell" by Rebecca Solnit). Ergo, we need to remove money as a motive.

And the evidence that some of the "elite" on this planet are trying to reduce the population radically seems very compelling.

How do we remove money? Here are a few threads that give a clue:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Also, read my free ebook, linked in my sig.




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