Originally posted by W_HAMILTON
The Christian God is already been disproved in my opinion. Any religion that preaches the only way to God is thru a text that many people of the
world may never even get to read, is not true. Any religion that preaches certain people are evil and doomed to hell, yet they are created that way,
is not true. Why would God bother making people one way, then condemning them for acting the way he created them? Why would God condemn some people
to hell simply because they will never have access to the Bible?
That's pretty much common sense to me. Like I said before, there may be a God, but he is not the God of Christianity, or Buddhism, or any other
I think I understand your objections and reasoning here. I am a follower of Jesus and often find myself wishing things were different because the
harshness of the Biblical scenarios is so calamitous. I'll try here to give a few clarifications that may help. I don't have the exact Biblical
references in my head, but could look them up if need be.
The first critical principle to understand is that God created the mankind to have a free-will choice to love and serve Him or not. The reason is
that God know that love back to Him can only occur by choice - otherwise, it is not love, but enslavement.
When Adam and Eve were in the garden (I think the garden was located in a valley 1/2 way between the city of Tabriz and the Caspian sea in Northern
Iran) , they could do pretty much anything they wanted and there would be no sin, no rebellion against God. God placed the tree of the knowledge of
Good and Evil in the garden as a measure that His creation was choosing to obey Him and care about what God wanted by simply not eating from that
tree. So 99% is everything they do is fine, great, have fun!
Meanwhile, previously, one of only a few Archangels, named Lucifer, called the "Son of the Morning", greatly resented that man was created and
inserted in God's heirarchy above the ranks of angels and just below God Himself. Everyone resents a demotion and Lucifer was certainly no
exception. Lucifer and 1/3 of all the angels rebelled against the Lord and became the opposing force, called "demons." It was Lucifer himself,
then called Satan, who took the form of a snake and tempted Eve with the fruit of the tree (traditionally, an apple, but I don't think anyone knows
When Adam & Eve sinned by eating from that tree, they're obeying of Satan placed them under the lordship of Satan himself, inheriting a sinful nature
for all future generations. The glorified form of Man that could stand before God in sinless, perfect state came off of the man and a sinful,
selfish nature was left. The Bible is clear that "for Him who knows what is right and does not do it, to him it is sin." The knowledge of Good
and Evil as their eyes were opened meant that they could no longer stand in front of God. In that sense, all men, including me, are declared evil
because, generationally, we were born into a sin state passed down from Adam and Eve.
God did not create us as sinful. He created us as perfect, eternal, and glorious, just above the angels and just below God Himself. It is we,
mankind, that chose to use our freewill to rebel against God and deliver ourselves over to the control and nature of Evil.
Man, in our sin nature, cannot look upon God's face and live. We, in our limited minds, often greatly underestimate the power of God's Perfection,
Holiness, and Justice. Man was banished from the Garden to live and toil on the earth partly as justice, but also as a grace to them so that Adam
and Eve would not live eternally in that sinful state under the earthly lordship of Satan after they had eaten from the Tree of Life/Immortality.
The things that are not completely understood is why Satan was given control of the earth after his rebellion. But clearly he was since he had the
authority to tempt Jesus with the "whole world" if Jesus would worship Satan (see Matthew, Mark, Luke, John)
After this came these complicated laws (Deuteronomy, Leviticus, etc) that allow man some interface with God. The cleansing, sacrifices, defiling,
etc were the things man must do in our sin state in order to have any contact with an omniscient God at all. God had always foreseen and decreed
from the book of Job on that there would someday be a mediator between God and Man, who is Jesus Christ, who would make one perfect, complete
sacrifice for sin of all mankind for all time and buy back from Satan the right to own/control the people of the earth. When we turn to Jesus and ask
Him into our lives and souls, a Holy Spirit comes into us and we are marked as Jesus's servant for ever.
By definition, Religion is a system of beliefs and practices to try to reach God. What I am talking about is what Jesus did to reach down to me
because I could not do anything to reach Him. No believers have anything to boast about at all, but that Jesus did it all for me (and you) to be
redeemed from the devil's control.
What I am talking about is a relationship with Jesus. There are no deeds, works, anything about us that make us valuable or more holy to Jesus. It
is that Jesus chose us and worked on us to lead us to Him.
We are taken through experiences as part of our relationship. Some very difficult, some victories, all teaching us to become more like Christ
Himself. In the past few years, I have learned a much greater compassion for people, having gone through some God-ordained job, relationship, and
health issues. No one has greater compassion for people than Jesus. Once we have the Holy Spirit in our souls, it is God who chooses to look at us
through the perfection filter of that Spirit and sees us as Holy and able to come before Him in prayer. When God speaks to me, the words hit my mind
and feel like they hit my chest at the same time - it's as though my spirit confirms the words that came in to my mind as being from the Lord
Himself. This does not happen to me as often as with other believers, but it has happened often enough to recognize the feeling. Wow! Now that's
God asks us to ask for Jesus in our lives to help and teach us and guide our lives because He still values only love freely given. We still must
choose Him. He will not force Himself on us. He, through the face of Jesus, is humble and meek of heart to those who earnestly seek Him.
There is a veil over this world where we do not see into the spirit realm. We do know from the book of Ephesians that we fight agaiinst the fallen
angels and their influence unwary people who do not believe that Satan even exists (Satan's best weapon).
The war that Satan wages against mankind is to get as many people with him in Hell as possible. Satan is angry that God created mankind above him in
the heirarchy and deceives, kills, and destroys, and twists men's minds to believe what he wants them to to show God that God made the wrong choice
in choosing to love and redeem man. God allows Satan some
authority to twist and persecute people to get them to rebel against God further, to convince man that God is a liar. etc.
If we could see into Hell and into Heaven and what they mean at the judgement, a few would still choose Hell out of a deep seated conditioned hatred
of God. But there is a veil over the eyes of all in the world (except when the Lord allows an occasional peek through a vision or dream) that still
requires people to step out on a limb to call upon Him for help and guidance. It still has to be our choice to seek Him. In the end, we are
responsible for our choices according to what revelation of Jesus we have had.
There are some who even know Jesus and God are real and still choose to rebel against Them their entire lives. God will not force people to go to
Heaven who hate Him. But, life without God in eternity means we fall under the control of Satan himself without the restraining power of Holy Spirit
in all believers in the world. He will get to torment all who choose this path for all eternity and everyone who chooses this path will live to
regret it, but there will be no second chance to choose Jesus.
Jesus has delayed His return to the earth in His plan to allow time for believers to reach native tribes all over the world. With computers, bible
translation into new languages is now happening at an unprecedented rate. When God the father and Jesus determine that the time for end has come, he
says that all will have had sufficient revelation to choose God so that no one will have an excuse at the judgement. We will be held responsible to
the degree of revelation we have had in our lives. Those children too young to know about good and evil (don't know the exact age) are with Jesus in
heaven (including all aborted babies) since they are under the "age of accountability."
To believe in Jesus and follow Him may cost the believer a lot in this life. It has cost me a lot. I would have probably been more successful in
the world had I not been a believer, but there are more important spiritual and character issues that Jesus deals with in order to conform us to His
At the end of my life, I believe I will have found this tradeoff more than worth it even if it hurts now.