Can science prove this???...., page 1

Well.

We seem to have some fans of "Common Sense" here. I offer the following text. Note that it is not my own, but written by someone else. I saved it a while back and lost the source (sorry about that). Still, I think it is an excellent piece.

Quote:

Every possible form which energy and/or matter can take, must be in use and exists today in time and space. Why? Because we are always in the middle of Eternity. Eternity is a two way street. Eternity runs both ways don't you know. These forms will include universes about which we know nothing. It will include undiscovered transformations of energy/matter, and any other undiscovered condition, forms or expressions which energy and/or matter may take.

When we speak of a God here, we are only speaking of that concept fostered upon us by the Christian religion which claims that a God is the creator of all that is. They claim a God was preexistent. That is, before there was anything, there was a God.

By using this Christian definition, we are eliminating the many varied little concepts of a God. Most of those activities, miracles and controversies (if they are true) could also be attributed to some super race of long lived aliens, and they need not be classified as gods. Aliens could easily possess powers, technologies and abilities which seem god like to our infant science. But, they are only advancements which some day even we may possess. So we are only dealing with the Christian concept of a creator God.

To say that before anything existed, a God existed, is an oxymoron. Such a statement can neither be understood nor conceived by our minds. It can not possibly be true and here is why. If a God existed, then that God is something. And something is not nothing. So the universe could not have possibly come from nothing. It must have come from something. Thom's law explains that.

Thom's Law
"Nothing can not produce something. If there were ever a time when there was nothing, there would STILL be nothing."*

*For a more comprehensive understanding of Thom's Law click here.

So even a God (which is something) could not be produced by nothing. Therefore, if a God came into being, he must have come out of something. The only "something" which exists now and has always existed is that of energy and/or matter.

So, any God (or anything else) must be, or must have been, the product of something. Everything which is, must be a product of energy and/or matter.

Now that is strike one against the Christians who say that a God preexisted nothing. Or, as some say, a God coexisted with nothing. That is, while there was nothing, there was also a God. (Unless, of course, you wish to claim that God IS nothing. I could accept that claim, but then I would not be here would I? Proof enough. I am here.) So, you can not have a God (which is something) and say that before him, there was nothing. You must either start with a God, which is something (and came from something) or you must start with nothing. For sure, you can not have it both ways. If there is a God, he is something and something can not come out of nothing.

Strike two says, since there was something which must have predated a God, God could not have created everything. He could not have created himself if he was not himself to start with. God himself/herself/it would have to be developed from something that was NOT a God. God is claimed to have knowledge and character. Knowledge and character MUST be developed. It can not be decreed. It can not be magically waved into existence. Knowledge and character is a PRODUCT of life and living. It is a product of making wise and foolish choices. It is a product of growth.

Did a God have the knowledge to create or make a universe? Where did he develop that knowledge? It is inconceivable that God simply sneezed and the universe came into being. I don't think even the Christians would believe that.

To have the knowledge to create, or even to make a universe, God must have had some prior experience, some development, some trials and errors in how and why this worked and that did not. Also, the Christians claim lots of wonderful attributes for their God. God is all good. God is all great. God is all just. God is all wise. God is all knowing. God is everywhere. God is all powerful, and so forth.

That is, the Christians give God a good, moral and powerful character. Now character can not be developed in a vacuum. Character must be developed by trial and error. Character must be developed by finding out what is good and what works. To do this one must also find out what is bad and does not work. Character must always answer the question, "Why?" in order to develop. Character is a growth process.

Therefore, there must have been other individuals and intelligences with whom God could interact in order to develop a good character. There must be at least a family of them. Therefore, God is not alone. So, other intelligence demands some type of setting in which they could interact. They must have a place, a home of sorts. So we now must allow God to have at least a family, a home and a setting, or a place of operating, in order to develop his character. So that is strike two against a creator God being by HIMSELF, and at the same time having both a good character and ultimate science knowledge. God could not decree himself a good character or vast scientific knowledge. He would not know what was good or what to decree. He must have developed that knowledge.

In addition to this, God talked! How could a God language develop without other like beings with whom to communicate. Come on now! Think about it!

Next, we come to strike three. If there was something out of which God came, then there was already material available to make a universe. That is, God could not possibly have created the universe. However, God could have MADE the universe. That is, he could have taken the material which was available and MADE the universe out of that.

The Christian information about a creation comes from a mistranslation of the Jewish Testament. The Jewish text reads:
"In beginning, the GODS MADE the heaven and the earth."

The Christians CHANGED that to read:

"In THE beginning, GOD CREATED the heaven and the earth."

In other words, the concept of a creation stems from a MISTRANSLATION - from a LIE. Think about that!
Either the God of the Old Testament made a mistake and used the word "made" when he should have used the word "create" in telling us about a beginning, or the New Testament God made a mistake and used the word "create" instead of the word "made" to describe a beginning. In other words, one of these Gods is lying to us. Which God is lying to us?

Since the Old Testament God told his tale first and then the New Testament God plagiarized his work, I must assume the New Testament God is the real liar in this case. Of course, if you do not wish to give the New Testament God the credit for this lie, you could give that credit to the writers of the holy book.

There are those Christians who say (in spite of Thom's law) that God did come out of nothing. I have some questions. Is God supposed to be greater than the universe? The Christians say, "Yes." Then why didn't NOTHING create something smaller or less significant than a God in its first effort at creation? Why didn't NOTHING do something simple first? How would NOTHING have the wisdom to make something more important and more complex than itself, more important and complex than the whole universe? Why didn't NOTHING make the universe first and then make a God?

How did NOTHING make a God when it had not yet discovered how to make the hydrogen atom? The effort of making a God would have challenged all the resources of NOTHING, which resources of course is zero. Hydrogen atoms would not have strained the efforts, knowledge and power of NOTHING nearly as much as making something greater than the universe.

Did you know that believers in all ages have created gods? Today believers can create too! They make lots of gods using only the twenty six letters of the English alphabet.

Now it is a fact, you can not put a strain on zero. You can multiply it. You can divide it. You can add it. You can kick zero around, abuse it, smash it, cast it aside and guess what? It is still a perfect zero. So I do here by declare ZERO to be the only perfect number in the universe. Nothing you can do to it changes the value of ZERO. It is always and for ever - ZERO. You just can not get anything out of ZERO except ZERO. And NOTHING is ZERO. And ZERO is NOTHING. A God did not and COULD NOT come out of ZERO.

So, the Christian concept of a creator God goes down on a called strike three. From now on, the creator God must take his seat on the bench next to the rest of the religious gods who struck out. A God could not have preexisted that from which he came. He could not create himself. He could not create the universe without vast knowledge which he must have learned by trial and error. He could not have learned without other intelligence with whom to interact. He could not have created the universe from nothing when material (energy/matter) was already available from which to make it. The creator God strikes out.

Since there is no creator God, maybe there is a Maker God. Let us examine that next.