Inside North Korea, Photos You Haven't Seen

reply to post by badgerprints


No kidding! Do you happen to know what his name was? I hadn't heard of that before.

I remember a few months ago watching a documentary about an ex-US soldier that defected to North Korea during the Korean War, unfortunately I forget his name, but he too did a lot of propaganda pieces after the war. He was given a wife, an apartment in Pyongyang, and taught English at a university for many years. In this documentary (it's on YouTube by the way if anyone wants to try and find it) he kept going on and on about how good it was in North Korea.

I later read (maybe it was in this documentary too) that there were a lot of soldiers that defected during the Korean War; not so much for ideological reasons, but because they were 17–18 and didn't want to be fighting. Many of those that defected stayed in Korea after the war because they were afraid of what would happen to them if they were to turn themselves in—even after the US government said they could come back without repercussions. Eventually all of them came back except this one guy that this documentary was done on, many suspecting that he actually wants to come back, but is just afraid.

I'll never forget what one of those that returned was quoted as saying either. It reverberates in my head pretty much whenever I see the Americans my age bashing America: "I didn't think America was a good country at all when when I seventeen—but now I know better."

ETA: In case anyone is interested, the defector that I mentioned is name James Joseph Dresnok and the name of the documentary is called Crossing the Line.

reply to post by 2manyquestions


Some times poor families live happier with everybody sharing what they have. Wealth alone is not the measure of the happiness.

Originally posted by notsoperfect
reply to post by 2manyquestions

 

I don't think a homeless person can escape to Norway without a dime in his hand. It is a hell of a freedom.

We are free to make our own decisions here. What reason is this man or woman homeless? Are they homeless because they have an addiction problem and they spend every dime on vodka or crack? Maybe they've committed a terrible crime and can't obtain a job to feed themselves. Or maybe they are mentally ill, in which case they belong in a hospital where they can be treated. Not everyone's life is going to be perfect even in a free society. To live in a "Free" society doesn't mean you have the freedom or access to everything you've ever desired. It means you are responsible for yourself. Sometimes we're dealt a bad hand life, whether that was due to our poor choices and actions, or maybe due to the actions of someone else. If a homeless person really wanted to go live in Norway, one way to do that would be to clean themselves up at the homeless shelter, go to the unemployment office and look for a job, any job just to start. This is a hypothetical situation, you provided no specifics why this hypothetical person is homeless, so I can't offer a detailed solution.

Originally posted by Dachende

Originally posted by detachedindividual
Amazing pictures. It's a shame they won't rise up against their dictators like other nations are right now.

It's such a beautiful country. Such a shame that it's being stolen from the rest of the world, and from its own people.

Well hell you better get the rest of your american buddies and jump in there quick smart !!!! it's about time they had american ideals shoved down their throats like iraq and afghanistan...

Go away troll.

Originally posted by notsoperfect
reply to post by 2manyquestions

 

Some times poor families live happier with everybody sharing what they have. Wealth alone is not the measure of the happiness.

Nobody said wealth is the source of happiness, but it sure makes life a lot nicer when you can afford to eat three meals a day, and you don't have to fear your Government when you say "Kim Jong Il is too fat". This isn't about whether or not a person can be happy in poverty, it's about this fat little tyrant denying his people basic freedoms such as the freedom of speech and the freedom to travel outside the country. I don't care whether they choose to live like the Smurfs. Let them, if they can sustain it,... but it's obvious from the stories that come out of N.K. that this isn't the case. They are unable to sustain themselves, they are starved, abused, unable to speak their minds, and they fear for their lives.

To live in a "Free" society doesn't mean you have the freedom or access to everything you've ever desired. It means you are responsible for yourself.

reply to post by 2manyquestions


The problem is that the system doesn't allow you to become responsible for yourself. Because the system is designed to make the ones who are in control to dominate. Sooner or later 90 percent of the population will have nothing to do to earn living because of the automation pushed by the profit oriented business, not that it is bad, but it is inevitable. We need a different social and political system very soon.

Originally posted by 2manyquestions

Originally posted by notsoperfect
reply to post by 2manyquestions

 

I don't think a homeless person can escape to Norway without a dime in his hand. It is a hell of a freedom.

We are free to make our own decisions here. What reason is this man or woman homeless? Are they homeless because they have an addiction problem and they spend every dime on vodka or crack? Maybe they've committed a terrible crime and can't obtain a job to feed themselves. Or maybe they are mentally ill, in which case they belong in a hospital where they can be treated. Not everyone's life is going to be perfect even in a free society. To live in a "Free" society doesn't mean you have the freedom or access to everything you've ever desired. It means you are responsible for yourself. Sometimes we're dealt a bad hand life, whether that was due to our poor choices and actions, or maybe due to the actions of someone else. If a homeless person really wanted to go live in Norway, one way to do that would be to clean themselves up at the homeless shelter, go to the unemployment office and look for a job, any job just to start. This is a hypothetical situation, you provided no specifics why this hypothetical person is homeless, so I can't offer a detailed solution.

Wow... you have a rather offensive take homelessness in America. Many people are homeless because they are jobless, their mortgages unfairly raised, school loans, medical bills, etc. If it makes people feel better not helping homeless people by thinking they "did it to themselves", then be my guest. It's funny that you use Norway as an example because they have virtually zero homelessness, free healthcare, free education, heavily regulated banking practices, same freedoms, and, no... they don't want us there.

Oh, and your fried from NK you were talking about. Was he there right after the Eastern Bloc fell or after the Arduous March? I just find it hard to believe he was hungry there recently. After they got back on their feet after the fall of the Bloc, they've been able to stabilize their food resources.

Originally posted by notsoperfect

To live in a "Free" society doesn't mean you have the freedom or access to everything you've ever desired. It means you are responsible for yourself.

reply to post by 2manyquestions

 

The problem is that the system doesn't allow you to become responsible for yourself. Because the system is designed to make the ones who are in control to dominate. Sooner or later 90 percent of the population will have nothing to do to earn living because of the automation pushed by the profit oriented business, not that it is bad, but it is inevitable. We need a different social and political system very soon.

Socialism is the system that will keep you dependent on it. Socialism promises to feed you, to clothe you, to house you, and in exchange you must do what it says. Unfortunately it can't deliver most of it's promises, but it will hold you to YOUR promise. To keep you from discovering that life outside that system is MUCH better in most cases, it will prevent you from looking over the wall. They don't want you to leave. They need you. That's N.K., it was Communist Russia, Communist China, Cuba, Communist Czechoslovakia, Poland, and so forth.

Capitalism holds you responsible for your own well-being. If you work for it, you will attain it. I can't say that we experience true capitalism in the U.S. but I know many people would like to, and try to do so.

Freedom is relative. No country on this earth boasts absolute freedom. You will have to depend on the people around you for some things. That's a given. You are responsible for yourself up to a point, of course. For example it is your responsibility to get educated, to find a job, to feed yourself, and to clothe and shelter yourself. You depend on society for these things, but this is why you work, so that you can gain those freedoms by way of exchange.

People have to realize that they must pay attention to politics and to the economic situation. Americans (especially) have to realize that there may come a point when the U.S. cannot sustain us all with jobs, and immigration will have to come into the picture. Global society changes over the years. Nothing is stable in time. We've had immigrants flooding to the U.S. for the past 400 years, but the time may come when Americans will have to start immigrating to Europe to find jobs and a better way of life. All we can do is adapt to our environment. That's the rule to survival.

Originally posted by veryinteresting
That is the view of North Korea that they allow outsiders to see. The following video shows a very different scene.

www.youtube.com...

This video brought me to tears. How can humanity continue to tolerate such darkness... I don't know what to say

Originally posted by Cuervo

Originally posted by 2manyquestions

Originally posted by notsoperfect
reply to post by 2manyquestions

 

I don't think a homeless person can escape to Norway without a dime in his hand. It is a hell of a freedom.

We are free to make our own decisions here. What reason is this man or woman homeless? Are they homeless because they have an addiction problem and they spend every dime on vodka or crack? Maybe they've committed a terrible crime and can't obtain a job to feed themselves. Or maybe they are mentally ill, in which case they belong in a hospital where they can be treated. Not everyone's life is going to be perfect even in a free society. To live in a "Free" society doesn't mean you have the freedom or access to everything you've ever desired. It means you are responsible for yourself. Sometimes we're dealt a bad hand life, whether that was due to our poor choices and actions, or maybe due to the actions of someone else. If a homeless person really wanted to go live in Norway, one way to do that would be to clean themselves up at the homeless shelter, go to the unemployment office and look for a job, any job just to start. This is a hypothetical situation, you provided no specifics why this hypothetical person is homeless, so I can't offer a detailed solution.

Wow... you have a rather offensive take homelessness in America. Many people are homeless because they are jobless, their mortgages unfairly raised, school loans, medical bills, etc. If it makes people feel better not helping homeless people by thinking they "did it to themselves", then be my guest. It's funny that you use Norway as an example because they have virtually zero homelessness, free healthcare, free education, heavily regulated banking practices, same freedoms, and, no... they don't want us there.

Oh, and your fried from NK you were talking about. Was he there right after the Eastern Bloc fell or after the Arduous March? I just find it hard to believe he was hungry there recently. After they got back on their feet after the fall of the Bloc, they've been able to stabilize their food resources.

Why do so many people think that any place where you don't have to swipe a credit card is "Free"??? I don't understand this mentality. These people pay taxes all their lives. They pay for all these services through the nose. They may not receive a bill in the mail, but they get billed by their Government every paycheck. Nothing is Free! Especially Government aid. That never comes free. If our Government decided to raise our taxes that high and promised all sorts of services, the outrage would be almost too much to stand.

I don't have a negative view of all the homeless, I just think that many homeless people ended up being homeless because of bad choices in life. There are those who are temporarily homeless (lost their job and house to the current economy), or those who are homeless because they ran away from abusive homes. Maybe they had untreated mental problems, who knows. It could be any number of reasons. Why are we even on this subject, and whoever said I never helped a homeless person??? There are no homeless people in Norway? Since when? Homelessness in Norway

As for this man who told his story, he escaped in 2005.

Originally posted by 2manyquestions

Originally posted by Cuervo

Originally posted by 2manyquestions

Originally posted by notsoperfect
reply to post by 2manyquestions

 

I don't think a homeless person can escape to Norway without a dime in his hand. It is a hell of a freedom.

We are free to make our own decisions here. What reason is this man or woman homeless? Are they homeless because they have an addiction problem and they spend every dime on vodka or crack? Maybe they've committed a terrible crime and can't obtain a job to feed themselves. Or maybe they are mentally ill, in which case they belong in a hospital where they can be treated. Not everyone's life is going to be perfect even in a free society. To live in a "Free" society doesn't mean you have the freedom or access to everything you've ever desired. It means you are responsible for yourself. Sometimes we're dealt a bad hand life, whether that was due to our poor choices and actions, or maybe due to the actions of someone else. If a homeless person really wanted to go live in Norway, one way to do that would be to clean themselves up at the homeless shelter, go to the unemployment office and look for a job, any job just to start. This is a hypothetical situation, you provided no specifics why this hypothetical person is homeless, so I can't offer a detailed solution.

Wow... you have a rather offensive take homelessness in America. Many people are homeless because they are jobless, their mortgages unfairly raised, school loans, medical bills, etc. If it makes people feel better not helping homeless people by thinking they "did it to themselves", then be my guest. It's funny that you use Norway as an example because they have virtually zero homelessness, free healthcare, free education, heavily regulated banking practices, same freedoms, and, no... they don't want us there.

Oh, and your fried from NK you were talking about. Was he there right after the Eastern Bloc fell or after the Arduous March? I just find it hard to believe he was hungry there recently. After they got back on their feet after the fall of the Bloc, they've been able to stabilize their food resources.

Why do so many people think that any place where you don't have to swipe a credit card is "Free"??? I don't understand this mentality. These people pay taxes all their lives. They pay for all these services through the nose. They may not receive a bill in the mail, but they get billed by their Government every paycheck. Nothing is Free! Especially Government aid. That never comes free. If our Government decided to raise our taxes that high and promised all sorts of services, the outrage would be almost too much to stand.

I don't have a negative view of all the homeless, I just think that many homeless people ended up being homeless because of bad choices in life. There are those who are temporarily homeless (lost their job and house to the current economy), or those who are homeless because they ran away from abusive homes. Maybe they had untreated mental problems, who knows. It could be any number of reasons. Why are we even on this subject, and whoever said I never helped a homeless person??? There are no homeless people in Norway? Since when?

Homelessness in Norway

As for this man who told his story, he escaped in 2005.

Look... I don't want to argue but I can't stand half-truths just hanging out there. The homelessness in Norway (that you linked to) is one in one thousand. In America, we have 3.5 million people who either are or have recently been homeless. That's almost one in one hundred. That's ten times as many. I'm not judging, it's just not fair to not be entirely honest.

As far as their taxes, they pay 47%. I pay 30%. I pay faaaar more than that 17% gap in social services that are privatized. Again, just trying to lend to the honest discussion. So... let's talk about NK, alright? I'm sure we can all agree that it's in trouble.

Very nice pictures. I have seen many similar collections. To me, it looks like a utopian paradise. I had this idea for years to make a coffee table large picture book called "Welcome to America", and just have it full of color photos of bums on the street, hobos sleeping under the bridges, trashed out buildings, children begging on the street, military veterans sleeping on cardboard boxes on the sidewalk, and more.

Sometimes it makes you think

if they can't see outside their boxes due to propaganda and crap...

what makes the rest of us think we are any different?

How funny is that thread... typical Cold War-era anti-commie propaganda.

But hey! Here's a look at what was the jewel of American industrial capitalism, the Great city of Detroit!







Beautiful, isn't it? Porn for nihilists!

And what the heck happened? Nuclear war? NO! It was laissez-faire capitalism! The global free markets! And the US Democratic Republic having let down the American people en masse.for the sake of corporate profits.

You can't imagine yourself having a life ion N Korea, eh? Well.. you simply CAN'T live in Detroit at all, now!

At least people seem to have a somewhat decent living in these pictures of North Korea... but here, people aren't there anymore.

reply to post by Cuervo


In NK, 100 percent of your work effort goes to the government. That means 100 percent tax. What about that?
No incentives to work harder. But if the society is run by mechanical automation, why does anybody have to work harder?

Originally posted by Deaf Alien
Sometimes it makes you think

if they can't see outside their boxes due to propaganda and crap...

what makes the rest of us think we are any different?

Hmm... you just put into words what has been unarticulated in my brain for days now. I've seen documentaries featuring scenes from an NK grade school class and they are scared as heck of us. We (not just US but the "west") are the imperialist devils who only want to crack open their borders and financially exploit their resources. And we see NK as an isolationist xenophobic personality cult with a short fuse. It turns out both propaganda machines are correct.

Originally posted by notsoperfect
reply to post by Cuervo

 

In NK, 100 percent of your work effort goes to the government. That means 100 percent tax. What about that?
No incentives to work harder. But if the society is run by mechanical automation, why does anybody have to work harder?

That's where a compromise comes in handy. I'm not a socialist. But I'm even more against corporate capitalism. Free enterprise is great but there are certain things that should never be in the hands of private interests. This polarity everybody insists upon makes you either a "capitalist pig" or a "commie" and it's one of the biggest reasons people here have difficulty contemplating any sort of middle ground. For the record, I'd pick the US over NK any day.

reply to post by Echtelion


Yeah because you know Communism worked out so well for Russians when 20 million+ of them died.
Worked out for China with Mao in power too with countless millions dead
Working out for North Koreans? I don't think the 4 million dead can agree Communism is a solid plan.

Don't compare Detroit to North Korea. We as Americans have it so Fuc*ing lucky compared to them.

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