My comments were directed at that group of people. I in no way took anyone's comments as a insulting toward anyone, except that crowd of people.

But to do that in the name of any religion, Pathetic...

this is horrible. im glad i live in america

that there belief there country there life.... not our place to change it
if it's not our citizen our against our country we should keep our hands out of it....

leave them to live there way......

In America, people often spend 30 years in jail for a crime they did not commit. Often they wait 20 years in death roll to be executed. We're not any better.

That video was just cruel and insane..I was completely repulsed by this kind of barbarism ..this makes me very sad the rules need to change over there and soon but we know that wont happen..

Originally posted by GodofWar411
that there belief there country there life.... not our place to change it
if it's not our citizen our against our country we should keep our hands out of it....

leave them to live there way......

And if we do nothing then it will be...

...COMING to a neighborhood near YOU!

This is the point: We must try to end this indignant form of punishment before it spreads to our own home towns. Its like an ant problem... they start out in small numbers, but once they know good food is around they swarm enmass.

Originally posted by Okandetre
Well if found guilty of this crime (not if they were or weren't or if you think it is a crime itself) it's what the good book prescribes as a just punishment.

So what is in the "bad" book?

Originally posted by Maslo
If their cult is incinting violence, it is justified. Religious freedom does not include freedom to promote these ideas.

And is it justified when we want to force our own thoughts into other people?

Religious freedom, to me, is just another form of freedom of thought, and that is the only freedom we can have as long as we live, even if we are forced to do things we do not want or like, even if we are being held with no reason or even tortured, even when we are dying, our thoughts are the only thing in which we can really be free.

I would rather be stoned to death than to have someone else's thoughts forced into my head.

PS: I don't think death penalty by stoning for adultery cases is inciting violence.

Originally posted by blupblup
And as I discussed with someone, what was worse than the actual stoning for me, was the look of excitement and anticipation on the faces of those about to do the stoning.
The click-clacking of rocks and the pure joy that some of these "people" (i use the term loosely as to call them animals would be an insult to animals) seemed to display was sickening.... truly.

Yes, like those people that film with their cellphones someone dying and do not help just because it will have "millions of views" and they will look "cool" (or whatever they call it now) to the eyes of their peers.

It's not really a religious problem, it's a human nature problem.

Originally posted by Seitler
And if we do nothing then it will be...

...COMING to a neighborhood near YOU!

So, to avoid something bad we do something bad?

That was probably the reasoning behind the idea to send US navy ships to Portugal when we got rid of a 48 years old dictatorship. Instead of helping the US only thought of pointing their guns to the Portuguese parliament just in case some of the communists freshly released from the political police prison started spreading their ideas.

This is the point: We must try to end this indignant form of punishment before it spreads to our own home towns. Its like an ant problem... they start out in small numbers, but once they know good food is around they swarm enmass.

I think death penalty in any form is an indignant form of punishment, but that doesn't mean that I will say that we must stop the US from having the death penalty "before it spreads to our own home towns".

Fearmongering is just another form of spreading hatred.

Originally posted by Xcathdra


1 - A wrongful conviction can be rectified, and also allows the damaged party to seek damages because he is still alive. A brutal murder is just that and is permanent.

When I said how do you differentiate, I didn't mean differentiate murder and conviction/sentence in common terms.
- Let me explain -
Why do we call murder, "murder", and the death sentence, "death sentence"? To answer, murder is called murder, because it is an action committed outside the boundaries of law. The death sentence is the same exact action, but done inside the boundaries of law.

2 - kidnapping is where a person is forcefully abducted against their will, depriving that individual of their legal and constitutional rights absent a court of law.

The only difference between imprisonment and kidnapping is that one is done outside the law, the other within the boundaries of law. They are both the same action, they both hold someone against their will etc. The handicapped victim of the law was wrongfully convicted. The Adulterers in Afghanistan were wrongfully trialled. The whole process was wrong.

Physical torture is when a person is physically harmed / injured in order to produce a response or certain behavior.

The beatings you get in prison is physical torture, the guards won't stop the other inmates from bashing you in the head until you have a swollen face. It is because want you to behave in certain way.

A wrongful conviction is a breakdown in the legal system where an innocent person is incarcerated for a crime they did not commit.

Yes, an innocent man can be convicted wrongfully within the law and outside the law. For example I compared this adultery case to Western Gangsta culture where snitches usually gets sentenced to death, or physical torture. They almost always do not have proper trials, there are no proper judges, usually no witnesses needed etc. It is a mess, because there are two laws, one official, the other cultural, it exists everywhere in the world.

and again, under western law all of the above are able to be challeneged in court, and the wronged parties have a legal avenue for redress of greivances.

Yes I know you can, I was talking about the worst of Western law, which produces results as bad as stoning case. That being said, the stoning case is not following any laws, to put it in a simpler term, it is an angry mob.

The 2 people who were killed in the OP - Were lied to by the authorites. We forcefully removed from their houses at 2 am. Were brought before 2 mullahs who held an illegal judicial proceeding, who then passed a death sentence and then carried it out.

Yes, and the deaf man was lied to by the authorities, trying to make him believe that he was guilty, they forcefully made him go through 20 years physical and psychological torture. Everything was done legally, but the result was the one of the worst case scenario.

My question for you is if you acknowledge in my last post that Sharia law was not followed in this case, so why are you trying to compare it to Western law? The response you gave me seemed to indicate that what occured with the mullahs actions was in violation of Sharia law, but you seem to approve of the actions and results of what occured.

I try to compare it to Western law because I feel like the whole incident have been abused by ATS members, using it to bash Islam. I have said before that the incident is the worst product of Sharia law, which should be compared to the worst product of Western law, that way we can create some perspective and not leave it one sided.

Did I miss read your argument, or do you support what occured to these 2 people?

I do not support what happened to these people, but I understand why and what happened as I compare the situation to not just Western law, but Western cultural law.

If Sharia law is violated, then how come they think they would go to heaven?

Who thinks who would go to heaven?

As a foillow up, what do you mean perspective is everything?

edit on 28-1-2011 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)

I have explained it above 3 quotes above.

Originally posted by PoorFool
In America, people often spend 30 years in jail for a crime they did not commit. Often they wait 20 years in death roll to be executed. We're not any better.

MTE. it seems innocent prisoners are released on a weekly basis in the USA - those few who had someone going to bat for them, spending a fortune on legal fees or having an in at Project Innocence. i'd rather be stoned to death than be locked in a prison with scum of the earth who treat men like a wife.

So much outrage for a stranger in another part of the world. Meanwhile there are hundreds of babies aborted across this country every day. Where's the outrage for them?