How a nonspiritual person might have a spiritual experience

How a nonspiritual person might have a spiritual experience
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please can you describe to me what is a spiritual experience ?

reply to post by NewlyAwakened


Non spiritual person would not accept it. There is no point in proving anything to ignorant people.

How can a totally, 100% non-spiritual, materialist, empiricist, objective thinker, rationalist, etc have a spiritual/mystical experience (mystical meaning here a 1-on-1 connection with "god" or higher power/force/energy)?

Quite simple. Really easy. Takes about 15 minutes. Guaranteed life-changer, if that's what you want. The experience is ineffable - it's indescribable with human language, at least it is with English.

n,n-dimethyltryptamine
'___' - The Spirit Molecule

That book is amazing. It outlines some research done into states of mind and the chemical '___'. I could write pages and pages about '___' and its connection to spiritual/mystical experiences, experiencing one-ness/the tao/whatever you wanna call it. It's a fascinating topic and incidentally provides a very compelling origin for religion/spirituality/mysticism.

Please private message me for more information.

Spirit is in everything... we just can't deny it.
(Watched some lions on National Geographic last night, noting the delicate balance of nature.)

Spirit moves through eveything, just gotta take it all in.

Originally posted by Astyanax
I'm not laughing.

As you know – for you and I have crossed swords in our time – I am a committed scientific materialist. Oddly, enough, though, I recently, and of my own accord, embarked on a project exactly like the one you have described.

I don't expect a spiritual experience from it, but I do hope to recover something valuable that disappeared from my life around the time I ceased to accept the possibility of 'things unseen'.

Star. Flag. And – although I'm not exactly sure why – thank you.

No worries. I hope you find it worth your while.

Like I said, I can't make any guarantees. I'm still pretty new at this and certainly no expert, and I don't think I mentioned the horrific rock bottom experience that led to all this. I would like to think that experience is just what led me to realize I had to work at my life, and that it's not integral to the spiritual aspects of this. But maybe you do need enough trauma to get the right wires crossed? In that case OneLife may be right.

And actually, I did not start coming up from rock bottom until I had the most vivid and frighening dream of my life, one that is still burned quite clearly into my memory. There was something fundamentally different about that dream as compared with any other I've ever had. Something qualitative, not just quantitative.

I'm starting to wonder if I jumped the gun in making this thread.

In any case, I'd suggest keep at it; like I said it can only lead to good things, spiritual or not.

Originally posted by PoorFool
Please instruct me on how to astral project.

I have episodes of sleep paralysis very often, and sometimes I attempt to leave my body but I can never do it.

Yesterday it happened, and I recall feeling some weird vibrations. I can't tell if they were physical or if that's any relevant.

I will really appreciate it.

Wish I could help you . I have a feeling I have a long climb before I start experiencing stuff like astral projection.

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
Brings a smiling recollection of Carl Jung saying on the one hand, that all religion (presumably including the big spiritual traditions of the world) are nothing more than a defence mechansim against having an authentic spiritual experience - and on the other, that the only way the individual, relative to what he called the "mass man", something very pronounced these days, especially in the nuthouse called the USA (don't take offence all ye patriots) - might be authentically free, and self expressed, individuated, self realized whatever you want to call it and actively engaged in a forward leaning creative and optimistic fasion, is to have a functional and workable theological framework or perspective, not just a token one however, but one capable of moving the whole person, and through them as a creative process, the world at large. After all what is power is not the power to choose?

Jung rocks my world. I really am just commenting to say that. His whole career was about trying to apply reason to irrational experience.

I haven't gotten a chance to watch the videos as I am under a time constraint, but I'll check them out.

reply to post by tgidkp

I think you pretty much get the idea, actually.

Spiritual Experiences are always taking place. Whether you are aware of it or not is irrelevant..it just is.

Comes in many forms. Emotional upheavels, changes in attitudes, happiness, sadness, mending relationships,coming to terms with loss, helping someone thats suffering. I am personally fond of the synchronistic above coincidences that I witness.

Did you cry watching The Blind Side or any other movie? If yes,, There ya go... a spiritual experience.

You have to read philosophical works, meditate, and answer the important philosophical questions like Who am I? What makes my mind think? What is my Self?, etc.. Here is my recommended sample list of books:

Boethius, Consolation of Philosophy translated by V.E. Watts (other translations are a bit too cumbersome)

Upanisahds and Bhagavad Gita translated by Eknath Easwaran

Buddhism by George Grimm or Dr. A.K. coomaraswamy

Autobiography of a Yogi, by Paramhansa Yogananda

Plotinus by Stephen MacKenna

By reading philosophical works the mind is trained to think abstractly about the Good, true Happiness, and the Absolute (God/Brahman/Self). I don't recommend new age spirituality books because it may involve a lot of fluff and nonsense. Except the Autobiography, all of the books listed above are over 500 years old (except of course with modern translations). Some are older than that. The autobiography is at least 50 years old written by a Hindu sage from his own words, in his own English. So they stand the test of time (esp. Upanishads and Bhagavad Gita, almost 3000 years old).

You also have to meditate on these works, meditate on the ideas the books talk about. Meditate and write your own theories and explanations for the conundrums of various philosophical problems (Who am I? What is Self? What makes me Think?, etc).

Saying that '___'(or its cousin 5MEO) causes brain damage is like saying breathing in pollution damages your brain... its on a very small scale and would be unnoticed unless you went crazy with it like most addicts(cig smokers, heavy drinkers)


but there is credible truth that '___' will heighten your spiritual sense and allow you to "find yourself" alot easier than learning how to meditate for 10 years, and on the 10th year you get hit by a truck.

and like stated before, '___' is a natural occurring "substance" in your brain, and is also found all over in nature( go lick a toad is a reference to 5MEO-'___' ) because the chemical is found of there backs... it's also found in certain strains of grass all over the planet.

Think about this.

We are spiritual beings having a human experience, not the other way around.

The body is just a vehicle, like a car.

reply to post by Astyanax


What?

Like NAM already said, '___' occurs naturally in your brain. So, if it caused brain damage, you're braindamaged then. I wish you'd really look into the scientific studies before you judge without any evidence.

But no "drugs" is required to get a "spiritual" exprience. Everyone (in the end) is "spiritual" (i don't really like the term). It's said that everyone gets a psychedelic experience once in their life (not counting birth and death, of course because of simply natural causes.

Originally posted by Tryptych
"spiritual" (i don't really like the term).

Me neither, friend. Gives the illusion that it is something "out there" that is not already obtained. when it is more accurate that all that exists is right here and now, our perspective simply needs to shift.

However, on topics such as these, many are more interested in arguing the semantics. Many will have their pre-conceived notion of some extremely enlightening, special, magical, experience that is conjured only in our imaginations. Some experience that one "has not" so when will the transition ever take place to "has?" Not likely ever, if someone is assured themselves they will not find such a thing, or that such a thing does not "exist." Searching for such an experience doesnt make it suddenly materialize, but more shifts ones perspective to include what is already there.

"In the world I see this generation racked by craving for being
wretched men gibbering in the face of Death
still craving, hoping for some kind of being.
See how they tremble over what they claim as 'mine'
like fishes in the puddles of a failing stream"

'___' will not damage your brain. There are very few drugs which actually damage/kill brain cells (edit: with moderate use). There is a neurotoxicity level for all drugs and for most, especially psychedelics, this level is very very low. It takes an EXTREMELY large and expensive (we're talking thousands of dollars) amount of most classic psychedelics to cause brain damage. It just doesn't happen. '___', psilocybin/psilocin, mescaline, '___', and salvinorin-A are all remarkably safe and nontoxic chemicals. You'd have to take so much of any of them in order to overdose and have negative physical effects that it's just not practical to even consider it as a possibility. Dextromethorphan (DXM), ketamine, and PCP are all suspected of causing Olney's Lesions with extended and heavy use - that is a real type of brain damage. MDMA and other drugs with stimulant properties can also cause brain damage in extremely high doses, or in extended and heavy use.

The vast majority of psychoactive substances do not cause any lasting negative physical effects. You might get sick to your stomach because of intoxication or some similar symptom, but most drugs are quite safe if taken at a reasonable dose and not every day for weeks/months/years.

Psychedelics are one way to experience the other realm. I'm grateful for my experiences with them. I have learned quite a bit... and not just hippy fluff. My life has changed for the better in so many ways and with such intensity that I must give credit to psychedelic drugs. The most important thing is the change in perspective and feeling of oneness and ability to love without worrying about prejudices of any sort... Doors are opened in the mind and soul for a few hours, enough for you to memorize the way back so you can open that door and exist in that mind space whenever you want. There's nothing stopping you from finding this door and unlocking it without any drugs, of course. It's just that they are a useful tool for guiding the psyche to just the right spot to, as another posting this thread said, cause the Bose-Einstein Condensation equivalent for your consciousness.

Peddling Brain Damage and Stupidity

Originally posted by mrcheezel
'___' will heighten your spiritual sense and allow you to "find yourself" a lot easier than learning how to meditate for 10 years, and on the 10th year you get hit by a truck.

Take drug. Have hallucination. Mistake for spiritual experiece. 'Look ma, I'm enlightened, me!'

Dohhh.

I've eaten hallucinogenic things from time to time, but I was never stupid enough to mistake the pretty colours and marvellous 'insights' for anything but what they were: self-induced brain malfunctions. 'Spiritual experience' my left toenail.

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Originally posted by Tryptych
Like NAM already said, '___' occurs naturally in your brain. So, if it caused brain damage, you're braindamaged then. I wish you'd really look into the scientific studies before you judge without any evidence.

Histamine occurs naturally in your body, yet an overdose can cause a fatal allergic reaction and kill you. Anaphlaxis

Cholesterol is another naturally-occuring body chemical that is fatal in excess.

Iodine, phosphorus, calcium and even cobalt are elements our bodies need in order to function, yet an excess of any of them can be deadly. Essential poisons for a balanced diet

Our bodies synthesize Vitamin A in the form of rhodopsin, but if you eat a polar bear liver, it will kill you.

The argument that something can't be harmful to you if it already occurs in the body is nonsense. You are three-quarters water, but if you drink too much of the stuff you will...drown.

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Originally posted by Tryptych
'___' will not damage your brain.

Says you. Are you a neuropathologist? A biochemist? A humble M.D., even?

Heavy ('___') users risk brain damage and a condition called "serotonin syndrome" that can cause muscle tremors or rigidity, confusion, and changes in blood pressure. Source

It amazes me that people can be so irresponsible as to come on the internet and publicly advocate the consumption of drugs that are even potentially dangerous. And to do it, moreover, on a web site that specifically forbids such advocacy.

Please private message me for more information.

I can't wait for a moderator to see this.

Important Correction

The third post replied to above was by tetsuo, not Tryptich.

Tryptich is not, as far as I can tell, in breach of the Terms & Conditions.

You guys can call me a BOF till the cows come home. I do not like the idea of "instant enlightenment" I am probably deeply predjudiced but I detest the "instant karma" or "take drugs to turn me on" mentality. Maybe It was seeing damaged hippies in SF.

Why not sit and try non-chemical methods???? Safe and the journey teaches you as does the peak experience.