The Dome of the Rock is the Abomination of Desolation

reply to post by dontreally

Originally posted by dontreally
Mandness in my soul.

Spelling mistake in an attempt to create a personal attack.

I refuse to respond to any more of your points, or put up with your nonsense.

Argument ad hominem, argument from ridicule.

Considering your name is "madness in my soul", it is not an attack on your character, but a basic deduction made from your username.

We can't change our usernames on ATS. I already told you that it reflected the inner conflict I had over choosing a religion (I ended up going with "None of the above"). So yes, it is a personal attack. Taking a username and using that as your entire point is nothing more than a baseless personal attack. It is the avenue of someone who is unable to actually address the points made.

You chose to call yourself madnessinmysoul. Thus, i imagine you must think that characterizes your personality in some shape or form.

Says the person who didn't read my last post addressed to you...

and I quote:

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
Ad hominem attack again! madnessinmysoul is a username, it reflected the turmoil I had over choosing a religious preference...in November of 2005!

I'd like to point out that a lot of things change about a person over the course of 5 years, unfortunately you can't change your username.

reply to post by kallisti36
In the time of Jesus, the temple that was on the mount had been commissioned and funded by Herod the Great. Appointed King of the Jews by Roman Senate, and confirmed through sacrifice he offered in the temple of Jupiter in Rome. What's that but a fulfillment of a god "unknown to the fathers"?

Just how holy do you think Herod's temple was? Was Jesus killed in the temple?

HEB 13:11 The high priest carries the blood of animals into the Most Holy Place as a sin offering, but the bodies are burned outside the camp. 12 And so Jesus also suffered outside the city gate to make the people holy through his own blood. 13 Let us, then, go to him outside the camp, bearing the disgrace he bore. 14 For here we do not have an enduring city, but we are looking for the city that is to come.

This letter to the Hebrews was written to - - - - wait for it - - - - Hebrews. Are you suggesting that Hebrews should ignore Jesus who is outside and rebuild that which was, is, and always will be useless?

What is a temple? Same as an idol: crafted and tooled by hand, worshipped as a dwelling of god. Ask any idolater, that's what it's all about.

LEV 26:1 " `Do not make idols or set up an image or a sacred stone for yourselves, and do not place a carved stone in your land to bow down before it. I am the LORD your God.

I've seem film clips of people bowing down and praying to tooled stones, set up by Herod the sacrificer to Jupiter.

EX 20:24 " `Make an altar of earth for me and sacrifice on it your burnt offerings and fellowship offerings, your sheep and goats and your cattle. Wherever I cause my name to be honored, I will come to you and bless you. 25 If you make an altar of stones for me, do not build it with dressed stones, for you will defile it if you use a tool on it. 26 And do not go up to my altar on steps, lest your nakedness be exposed on it.'

The god had a preference for dirt altars anywhere his name was honored. Acceptable substitute: untooled stone. When did he ask for a temple of dressed and tooled stones? He didn't, that's when. The temples were mere idolatrous constructs of man and for the aggrandizement of man. Why would a Christian suggest idolatry is a good thing for Jews to practice? Do you secretly want them destroyed by their vengeful god?

The abomination, that causes desolation, is Azazel. See the book of Enoch.
He is called that because his input of teachings to the human race when the watchers dwelt with man caused the majority of the destruction at the time of Noah. Azazel was imprisoned in the abyss of the desert of Dudiel.
In the end of days, he escapes and once again sets himself up as the head of the Earth, making himself the one who was (the head) is not and will be again.

Please research people.

It is not man's power of observation that is his great weakness,
but his incapacity for competent conclusion.

Gain all of the material from ALL sources before coming to conclusions.

Thanks

reply to post by shoulda taken the blue pi


Can you provide some sources for this? I do adhere to the Book of Enoch as scripture, so if you can provide evidence that the abomination is Azazel, I would appreciate it. From the context of the scripture, the abomination appears to be an object, not a person.

I know this is an old thread, i'm a new member so I just wanted to give my input.....as a muslim.

'The abomination of desolation is the Dome of the Rock'
To people who think this, they ought to be aware at least what led to the building of this dome.

When Umar, the Caliph at the time conquered Jerusalem. The Jews weren't allowed there and the temple mount was a garbage dump. caliph umar cleansed the temple mount and had a fence built around an area he believed was holy, not just to muslims, but to jews aswell.

Out of respect to him, a later caliph had a mosque built on the site.

Were the actions of Caliph Umar an abomination too? i mean he respected the land enough to walk on it barefoot and he it cleansed. Compare that to the actions of Antiochus, who captured the temple and smeared it with pigs blood and placed idols there.

reply to post by kallisti36

It seems as if Islam really doesn't want the Jewish Messiah to come.

Which is this messiah you are talking about? Jesus?
Well, muslims accept Jesus as the messiah...who was born of a virgin and will return to slay the anti-christ.
Ironically, he was rejected by the very people that he was sent to... even now to this day.

Then there are the rather disturbing similarities between the Muslim Mahdi and the Christian Anti-Christ. To see this concept explored in depth: www.abovetopsecret.com... This is one of the best eschatology threads I've seen on ATS and my post is by and large a response to something I believe they missed.

I recall seeing those charts presented by AshleyD used on a different thread and I also responded to it... without getting any replies
Read them here...
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...

I also pointed out that the anti-christ description in Islamic prophecy closely matches that of biblical prophecy...That the Anti-christ will be blind in the right eye and have a damaged arm as mentioned in Zechariah 11:17. The mahdi is not one eyed, Isa is not one eyed. Only the anti-christ is one eyed. So there can be no confusion on this matter!! So, it is clearly established that both muslims and christians identify a one eyed anti-christ, therefore it is utterly absurd to think that the one eyed anti-christ is actually the same person as the mahdi, who is clearly a seperate person in the Koran.. Also both islamic and christian eschatology believe that the virgin born messiah destroys an anti-christ, thereby it completely wrecks the notion that the Islamic Mahdi(who fights the AC alongside Jesus) is actually the anti-christ.

reply to post by keithlemon


What difference does that make?

Jews have not been allowed to ascend the Temple Mount since the building of the dome of the Rock.. For a Jew to even to pray near it drew condemnation from the Waqf, and if they persisted, they would be killed.

Today for instance, religious Jews are not allowed to pray on their temple mount.

Do not forget. If youre concerned about fairness, how would you feel if Jews came into Mecca and arrogated it to themselves??? Wouldnt be very nice, would it?

What is left for them? The righteous thing for Muslims to do, out of respect to their own Quranic sayings about the Jews, would be to transfer the Dome of the Rock and Al Aqsa mosque to another location, and forgo all connection to a site that for nearly 2000 years before was holy to the Jews.

But you and i know Dar Al Islam would never concede to that.

Apparently war will be the only way out.

reply to post by dontreally

Jews have not been allowed to ascend the Temple Mount since the building of the dome of the Rock.. For a Jew to even to pray near it drew condemnation from the Waqf, and if they persisted, they would be killed.

Today for instance, religious Jews are not allowed to pray on their temple mount.

It's by their own standard of holiness that they can't walk on the site.

Temple Mount From Wikipedia
Due to its extreme sanctity, many Jews will not walk on the Mount itself, to avoid unintentionally entering the area where the Holy of Holies stood, since according to Rabbinical law, some aspect of the Divine Presence is still present at the site.[2] It was from the Holy of Holies that the High Priest communicated directly with God.

What is left for them?

Nothing! They already had their third temple, built by their Messiah Herod, anointed as 'king of the Jews" by the Roman god Jupiter on the Capitoline Hill in Rome. Jupiter has had his day. That third temple has already been destroyed by Rome. It's over, finished.

reply to post by pthena

It's by their own standard of holiness that they can't walk on the site.

WRONG.

SOME Jews dont ascend the mount so as not to incite violence from the authorities. This being a Talmudic injunction to "save life".

Nothing!

A little angry are we?

You also seem to be a little bit ignorant.

Herods "temple" was an ADDITION to the already existan 2nd temple. It was not the 3rd temple.

They already had their third temple, built by their Messiah Herod, anointed as 'king of the Jews" by the Roman god Jupiter on the Capitoline Hill in Rome. Jupiter has had his day. That third temple has already been destroyed by Rome. It's over, finished.

What the hell are you talking about here? Jupiter anointed king herod as the king of the Jews? Really?! when did this happen?

Jupiter has had his day?? Yes. Its called Thursday. Every week Jupiters day comes around. 'tis the pagan culture we live in.

reply to post by dontreally
Is there some magic prophecy about the "third temple" lasting forever or something? Why the insistence on calling some new future temple "the third"? I really would like this question answered, PLEASE!

1) Solomon's temple 957 BCE
2) Zerubbabel's temple in 516 BCE
3) Herod's temple started 19 BCE

Zarubbabel's temple was completely disassembled, the foundation was raised up 15 ft. A new temple was built. Third Temple.

4) Hadrian's Temple to Jupiter built 130 CE
5) Emperor Julian II's allowed the Jews to rebuild a Jewish temple, 363 Rebuilding work began, but was ended by the Galilee earthquake of 363

You also seem to be a little bit ignorant.

Herods "temple" was an ADDITION to the already existan 2nd temple. It was not the 3rd temple.

Talk about some "future third temple" seems quite ignorant to me. Right, complete disassembly, foundation raised 15 feet, new temple built is "merely an addition". Right.

What the hell are you talking about here? Jupiter anointed king herod as the king of the Jews? Really?! when did this happen?

Herod fled to Rome to plead with the Romans to restore him to power. There he was elected "King of the Jews" by the Roman Senate.[16] 40 BCE
Herod the Great From Wikipedia

The part about Herod sacrificing to Jupiter on the Capitoline Hill seems to have been deleted from wikipedia in the last year.

reply to post by pthena

Is there some magic prophecy about the "third temple" lasting forever or something? Why the insistence on calling some new future temple "the third"

Its the Jewish 3rd Temple. Does it matter what they believe? Christians, Muslim, Buddhists, Hindus, Native Americans and who knows what else, all have eschatological beliefs for how the "new age" will begin..

In Judaism, the Temple draws down the presence of God into this world. The temple is "microcosm", and following cosmic principles, the physical structure built on the land believed to be the interface, or "threshold" between the spiritual and physical dimension, becomes a "Mold" of the transfusion of divine energy and the divine beneficence which comes into this dimension, influencing the human collective unconscious, essentially motivating a certain standard of behavior.

This is the basic kabbalistic theory of why the Temple is important, and why the certain dimensions of the temple is the basic "mold" the divine energy that will enter the world.

According to Jewish tradition, even before David bought the spot now known as mount Moriah, there was already a temple on the mount dedicated to the God of Heaven, run by a certain Ornan the Jebusite. Apparently Malkizedek (righteous king in Hebrew), identified by the Rabbis with Shem, Noahs son, was the high priest of this Temple. He officiated in "Salem", which is what Jerusalem was later called. The place where Abraham sacrificed Isaac:

"And so Abraham named that place "G‑d will see," as it is said to this day, "On the mountain, G‑d will be seen"

Adonai Yireh is "God will see". So Abraham and Shem (or Malkizedek, who blessed Abraham as servant of the most high God - El Elon) contributed each an aspect to the service of God. Machizedek the attribute of peace, and Abraham, the higher attribute of awe - Yireh, which with a different vowel also means "to see" ie; to see your true self in comparison with the infinite greatness of God. Its humbling. It awesome.

In anycase. Theres no need or rule that the temple will called the "3rd". It just so happens to be the 3rd temple, predicted for so long. Also, there might be something special about the concept of 3, which makes the third the final aspect.

Zarubbabel's temple was completely disassembled, the foundation was raised up 15 ft. A new temple was built. Third Temple.

Please make distinctions between facts and conspiracy theories. This is a conspiracy theory. There is no evidence from the Bible, or history, or even archeology to justify that theory.

4) Hadrian's Temple to Jupiter built 130 CE 5) Emperor Julian II's temple, 363 Rebuilding work began, but was ended by the Galilee earthquake of 363

What? You think the Jews were happy that a pagan temple was built on their holy temple mount?? You have to be insane if you honestly believe that the Jewish God is merely "Zeus" or "Jupiter", as pagans imagine them. It is not so simply my friend.

If you had any knowledge of Judaism, which you apparently dont, you would see how completely different these archetypes are.

Zeus/Jupiter/Jove/Marduk/Indra etc each correspond more to the 'artificer' and judge of reality. In this sense, they would correspond exactly to the name Elohim, which has the same essential definition. It is the name responsible for the creation of the physical cosmos.

But YHVH is an alltogether different archetype with no parallel in any other religion. Of course, there are some aspects from this name "grafted" onto older pagan deities, like Zeus, Jupiter etc, but there is nothing intrinsically powerful about their conceptions of these deities, because that is at most what they are; just one of many gods. Ever evolving, changing, and no permanence.

YHVH is the name behind the name. The reality of Being behind all being. It is that which is too great to even speak for a Jew; the reverence for His majesty and Glory leaves them just utterly speechless, and anxious to do whatever is in their power to serve this magificent God, who is in control of all; yours and my fate, the fate of your religious beliefs, and the eventual redemption of the trodden upon truth. This God is no mere 'archetype' percieved by the human observor. His is Reality. He is looking down at us and telling us, youre mere observors. Stay away from this self delusion, the fetters of the ego - which mostly means the obstinance of the self towards destruction. This God created a world not for our own enjoyment, but for a purpose, and the purpose is to make it an abode for the almighty. That "Grand Unity", Gnosis or Enlightenment God beckons man, is not to be enjoyed merely to no purpose, but to be applied, and lowered into this world. Where your own self knowledge leads to RECONSTRUCTIVE action, in this world, to tranform the very

essence of it into the nature of the above world.

Judaism is no materialistic religion, but a program of the creator to CHANGE the physical.

Twist this in whatever way you like, it is not evil, and its actually quite demented to spin it that way.

But spin it that way, indeed, is what Gnostics do best!!! Spin, Spin, Spin, and we'll stop it where we like it.

God is now a "projection" of the ego into the external world. It is us worshipping our egos, is essentially how Gnosticism interprets it. This they say because they want to be themselves, without the fetters of Gods desire and will.. And yet, its HE who is being selfish and egotistic, and not us. Tower of Babel. Amazing. We have it a book, predicting its motivations, to make a name for "ourselves", and not to be unified within the will of the true reality.

Well. It certainly is a tricky perspective. It makes an almost equal claim to truth. That truth is not to be caged in by any order, but to tread our own path..... Seems decent enough. Nothing "evil" about it.

On the other hand, the Jewish conception of reality, is very grand, very deep, and perhaps might end up being the truth. But because of an obstinate, inherently egotistical, or perhaps "selfish" - love for the self, is a better word, they just could never appreciate its beauty and grandeur.

reply to post by dontreally

In Judaism, the Temple draws down the presence of God into this world. The temple is "microcosm", and following cosmic principles, the physical structure built on the land believed to be the interface, or "threshold" between the spiritual and physical dimension, becomes a "Mold" of the transfusion of divine energy and the divine beneficence which comes into this dimension, influencing the human collective unconscious, essentially motivating a certain standard of behavior.

This is the basic kabbalistic theory of why the Temple is important, and why the certain dimensions of the temple is the basic "mold" the divine energy that will enter the world.

And this AWEsome Yahweh character, greater than all Elohim, is powerless to do anything good without people killing other people so that a manmade temple of stone can "Mold" the divine energy? That sure sounds like a fraudulent deity to me.

And the 500 years of the 2nd temple, before Herod disassembled it for his third temple, was not sufficient for the "greatness" to come about? No! "One more temple! One more temple! This time it will work!" Oh yeah, I'm sure.

The true Temple resides within us all, the Abomination is that man that is born without a Soul, as he is of "Desolation".

So a Clone is the most likely candidate who will stand in that place to be considered as God.

reply to post by pthena

And this AWEsome Yahweh character, greater than all Elohim, is powerless to do anything good without people killing other people so that a manmade temple of stone can "Mold" the divine energy? That sure sounds like a fraudulent deity to me.

Rewind.

Why is this necessary? Because God gave man Free will.

What has man done with it? Opposed Him.

Thus, we are where we are. Why??? Why would an all powerful God require men to die before his glory become revealed? I dont know. Either way, do we still yet live in a world full of evil? What is your explanation for it? I dont have one either. That doesnt change the fact that we dont know, and dont even have the mind to contain such a vast complexity, and yet, there is a God who allows things to be this way. To no purpose?

I believe all will be better understood at the end. After the cosmic disorder that gives way to a new better ordered world.

And the 500 years of the 2nd temple, before Herod disassembled it for his third temple, was not sufficient for the "greatness" to come about? No!

Whats wrong with you? This is not Fact! OK! Look! 2nd Temple stood 20 years longer than Solomons temple.

Harods Temple was mere addition, or a renovation of an ALREADY existent Temple. Get that through your thick conspiracy husked skull!

Link

reply to post by dontreally

Whats wrong with you? This is not Fact! OK! Look! 2nd Temple stood 20 years longer than Solomons temple.

Harods Temple was mere addition, or a renovation of an ALREADY existent Temple. Get that through your thick conspiracy husked skull!

Second Temple From Wikipedia
In 20 BCE, Herod announced that the old temple would be torn down and replaced with something truly magnificent. The Kohanim, or Jewish priesthood, as well as the rest of the population, were skeptical, requiring Herod to quarry all the stones required for the project before the destruction of the Post-Exile structure could begin.
. . .
To complete it, a trench was dug around the mountain, and huge stone "bricks" were laid. Some of these weighed well over 100 tons, the largest measuring 44.6 feet by 11 feet by 16.5 feet and weighing approximately 567 to 628 tons,[19][20] while most were in the range of 2.5 by 3.5 by 15 feet (approximately 28 tons).
. . .
As the mountainside began to rise, the western side was carved away to a vertical wall and bricks were carved to create a virtual continuation of the brick face, which was continued for a while until the northern slope reached ground level.
. . .
The project began with the building of giant underground vaults upon which the temple would be built so it could be larger than the small flat area on top of Mount Moriah. Ground level at the time was at least 20 ft. (6m) below the current level, as can be seen by walking the Western Wall tunnels. The edge of this platform remains everywhere; part of it forms the Western Wall.
. . .
Legend has it that the construction of the entire complex lasted only three years, but other sources such as Josephus say that it took far longer, although the Temple itself may have taken that long.

Underlines added by me. The source you supplied.
1) Second temple torn down.
2) Flat area raised 20 ft (I had that wrong)
2) 3rd Temple built.

I suppose the old saying is true, "keep on repeating a lie, and it becomes true" I don't care how many times people say Herod's temple was merely an add on, it just isn't true. Herod's temple was the third temple. If the third is the last, than that's it, destroyed 70 CE. Game over!

Whatever "prophecy, or numerology, or black magic," or plain feverish nightmare that keeps insisting on a third temple is over, done with, dead on arrival.

reply to post by pthena


Ok. I was wrong. You humbled me.

Harods temple was the 3rd Temple built on the Temple mount....Or....Maybe the 4th or 5th, since as i said before, there were temples on that spot before David purchased it.

But the point im trying to emphasize is.....The 2nd Temple, built after the Babylonian exile, was NOT the Temple of Ezekiels vision. This is a well known fact. The Temple Ezekiel envisioned has yet to be built; Harods temple was not in that form.

Infact, even the Temple being proposed by the Temple Institute isnt in the dimensions of Ezekiels Temple either. Ezekiels Temple was expanded upon by the 18th century Kabbalist Moshe Luzatto, who drew up a specific explanation of its proportions and its Kabbalistic significance. He claimed to have got this knowledge through Elijah the prophet or Sandalphon, as he is also called.

Ezekiels Temple apparently, is not going to be built until the Messiah comes, and seeing the Jews consider this year to be the 5772 since the creation of this world, the messiah - or messianic consciousness - is scheduled to enter the year 6000, which would be the year 2229 of the Common Era. He could come prior to or after that period...Who knows but God.

Whatever "prophecy, or numerology, or black magic," or plain feverish nightmare that keeps insisting on a third temple is over, done with, dead on arrival.

Why are you so bothered by this?? What does it matter? It doesnt affect you.

Fact is, the Temple Mount is holy to Judaism.

Muslims point their Rear to it when its time for prayer; and prayer is always directed towards Mecca.

It is simple fairness. I really wonder why people can be so tolerant of this double standard against the Jews. There are certain Hindu sites of important significance which Islam took and Islamized, which modern day Hindus are still upset about.

Is this a reasonable feeling? I think it is. It belongs to them and is Islams way, anything that is not Islamic will become Islamicized. It is an amorphous glob that swallows anything in its path.

Jews, likewise, for 19 centuries since the destruction of their temple, prayed 3 times a day towards the Temple mount. 5 centuries into this exile, Muslim invaders into Byzantium controlled Jerusalem decided to build a mosque on the Temple mount. They end up building two on the mount, and Jews since Muslims gained control of the mount have never been allowed near it. At most, they got their Weeping wall, the western wall of Harods Temple. Muslims allowed their pathetic Dhimmis to weep their for their lost temple.


Islam, is not as "peachy" a religion as people think it is. It is quite dark, and demonic, in certain ways. For instance, their holy places are located in the desert - associated with the void. The Kaaba - the black square cube, symbolizes Allahs influence in this world, which is the force of law (the black). From out of the void emerges the concept of order (law), which is the Kaaba.

Its also mighty strange that the Muslims closed up certain portions on the mount, as if it has some esoteric reasoning. 6 gates are sealed, the one of particular significance is the East Gate - also called the Golden Gate. The East, is associated with the influx of divine influence. But its seeled with two Green doors.

Mystical architecture is a strange thing.

reply to post by dontreally

Why are you so bothered by this?? What does it matter? It doesnt affect you.

It does effect me very much.
For the last 40 years I've been assaulted and assailed by a demented ideology both suicidal and nihilistic; a popular form of American "Christianity" that desires a temple to be built so that:

1) some character called anti-christ can occupy it.
2) some raging nightmare version of "Jesus" will show up with a mighty sword slaying people by the millions, human blood flowing 4 ft deep in a river down the street.
3) the whole world destroyed in a raging inferno.

Each year the vocabulary and phraseology of this demented ideology becomes more and more mainstream in American culture and political discourse. Each year, the assault on my human psyche grows stronger. Each year this nightmare scenario seems closer to being realized through the process of self-fulfilling prophecy.

Yes, it affects me deeply. As long as I live, I am the foe of Christian Zionism.