Can anyone explain the justification for the United States Federal Tax burden? They're killing me.

reply to post by schlub


I'm not sure what your problem is.....paying tax or lack of sleep because you can't get your school work done?

I'm stunned at the your whining of hours your boss you gives you; here in Australia we work harder and longer than than the average American with a fulltime job! Welcome to the real world my friend !

Study and working hard is how you get somewhere and be successful. Success does'nt come from thin air.

reply to post by Topsy_Cret


Australia is the most highly taxed nation in the world and we work longer hours than any other nation in the world.

Originally posted by bluemirage5
reply to post by schlub

 

I'm not sure what your problem is.....paying tax or lack of sleep because you can't get your school work done?

I'm stunned at the your whining of hours your boss you gives you; here in Australia we work harder and longer than than the average American with a fulltime job! Welcome to the real world my friend !

Study and working hard is how you get somewhere and be successful. Success does'nt come from thin air.

I think a lot of the irritation is that we're annoyed that the taxes taken are not applied appropriately. The middle class is really taxed to death. On top of the tax amts I posted I have 4 other state taxes that are ridiculous.I wouldnt mind a bit paying taxes if they were properly applied, personally. Im sick of paying for generational welfare families, their cable and cells.. which they get free on my dime here. Im tired of paying for unjust wars and BS. Im tired of paying for presidents vacations and general BS.Im tired of paying for road maintenance that never gets done and our infrastructure is crumbling. Im tired of paying for police protection through the nose and then they claim they have no money and lay off 13 deputies so its over 200 people per every one cop.Im tired of TIF districts paying for free crap for the connected people. We have serious issues here that we could comfortably take care of IF the money was appropriated correctly.

Many from other countries like to compare.. but they shouldnt be enjoying their taxes either. Just because theirs is worse we should be fine with ours? Thats crazy. I hear people smack talk us when we gripe about the price of gas. because in Europe its sooo much higher. Well, I wonder how many in Europe have to drive 30-45 min to a grocery store or 30 minutes to a Dr? or 1.5 hours to work one way? Our public transportation is basically nonexistant country wide. You get bronchitis you pay 2200.00 for a steroid inhaler out of pocket depending on what crappy insurance choice is pushed on you.. the US is a mess. We have every right to bitch and moan. If the rest of the world is okay with their taxation and problems.. fine. Dont gripe.. but dont demand our silence concerning our OWN country.

reply to post by schlub

and that it is the Left that he is failing, not the Right

Actually.. he's failing both. the Right wants smaller government, he failed miserably. The Left wanted a Government that helped people, especially lower income people and "average" people. Failed miserably.

He's a Fascist. Don't get me wrong, so was Bush, and Clinton, and Bush, and Reagan (king of Fascist) .. hence why Congress has a 20% approval rating.

So the other day I sit down to do my taxes and find out that the government wants me to pay two weeks worth of wages. Unbelievable. While these rich pieces of garbage get more money back, and while they go the best schools and best hospitals and have the best neighborhoods, I can barely make it.

Thankfully I'm not there with you this year, mostly because I bought a house and got a free check for 8k, but I give the government a interest free loan so I don't owe at the end of the year (anyone else think we deserve interest over 12 months on our refunds???)

Even with the housing check, we still paid more than many make in a year. I suppose we should be grateful we even have jobs, let alone both of us working.. but to see the sheer size of money we have taken from us.. why, I could remodel my house, finish my yard, maybe take a vacation which we cannot afford to ever do.. it'd certainly stimulate the economy..

But I completely agree with you. I used to buy into the "trickle down economics", but now I see it for what it is, highway robbery. !%@ the Rich, they are the scum of this nation anymore, worse than the poor who leech off the system, we cannot have both ends of the economy sucking the lifeblood out of the middle class. People earning 5x my wage are paying less in taxes than me because they can hire tax reps to find loopholes, write off most of their livelyhood so they have no technical income and so forth.. it's ridiculous.

And most of our money went where? A war "saving" arabs who didn't want to be "saved" to "protect" us, what a load of bs.. or defunct social programs, or bailing out bankers, tax breaks to the rich, "stimulating" corporations, BUYING corporations..

It's !@%$ up.

I'm self-employed. That means I get to pay an extra 15% in taxes. So, I'm at 45%. Considering that everthing I buy and own is also taxed, I'm over 50% in taxes. Half, probably more, of what I make goes to the goverment. It's only going to get worse.

Originally posted by bluemirage5
reply to post by Topsy_Cret

 

Australia is the most highly taxed nation in the world and we work longer hours than any other nation in the world.

Actually... the average work week in Australia was 36hrs from the 70's till 2009 when for some reason it shot upwards, but still not the highest. Averaging hours over averaged years, Australia doesn't even make the list of top 20 hardest working nations.

en.wikipedia.org...

As for taxes.. nowhere close. Again, doesn't even make the top list.

en.wikipedia.org...:Income_Taxes_By_Country.svg

^^ chart of taxes per income Surprisingly (to me anyways) Belgium is the most taxed country in the world. And the US and Japan have the highest corporate taxes.

Edit to add, America is the second lowest tax rate (we still like to bitch, cause we can) and Australia is the third lowest tax rate.

Originally posted by StlSteve
I'm self-employed. That means I get to pay an extra 15% in taxes. So, I'm at 45%. Considering that everthing I buy and own is also taxed, I'm over 50% in taxes. Half, probably more, of what I make goes to the goverment. It's only going to get worse.

We have a friend on the Il side of the river.. self employed.. same boat as you as being taxed completely to death. The most recent problem is that has a few kids and cant afford health insurance. There is a funny misconception with some that the self employed are just flying high and living it up. In the last few years he can barely afford his overhead and afford his mortgage. Its really terrible... he is a damned hard worker and a good guy. The economy over here is just complete crap and the taxes keep raising. Like I said.. our state is going up 66% now and the utility co's are saying they are raising rates.. again.

One of my family members on the Mo side in St.Charles has a med size corp.. he is going to have to lay of 13 people for sure and was trying to wait until the last minute to do it.. maybe more in the near future.

Its all just incredible..

reply to post by Rockpuck


LOL 36 hours went out the window more than 3 years ago!!! Times changed here now.

Originally posted by bluemirage5
reply to post by schlub

 

I'm not sure what your problem is.....paying tax or lack of sleep because you can't get your school work done?

I'm stunned at the your whining of hours your boss you gives you; here in Australia we work harder and longer than than the average American with a fulltime job! Welcome to the real world my friend !

Study and working hard is how you get somewhere and be successful. Success does'nt come from thin air.

LOL! You misread my posts then. I work 40 - 50 hours of OVERTIME per week sometimes. I said I worked up to 55 hours on a SINGLE SHIFT. I guarantee you've never done that. I was surprised I was able to without dying. Read more carefully in the future. Overtime generally around 30 - 40 hours but sometimes up to 60. That comes out to 100 hours a week, sometimes more.

Here's a less politically-influenced analysis of tax burden: en.wikipedia.org...

Also I'm never going to cry for the rich.

What should make everyone happier is that inflation will push tax rates higher for producers which will add to more inflation.

As for the self employed, if you want to reduce your taxes dramatically, claim a lot of expenses. Every cent you spend should be an expense. A visit to granny can be claimed if one was clever enough. Large corporations do this all the time. There is no excuse for a self employed to pay such a huge part of their income as taxes especially since a huge part of their income go to regular operational expense.

Originally posted by schuyler
OK: To summarize, then.

The top 1% pay over a third of the taxes.
The top 50% pay about 96% of the taxes.
The bottom 50% pay a little over 3% of the taxes with 43 million returns paying NOTHING at all.

Now, let's talk about your tax "burden."

Ah yes, the old "But rich people pay a large chunk of the tax total!" argument.

First, your argument is fallacious and misleading. Did the top tax rate increase between 1985 and 2000? Yup, in fact it rose by about 20%, from 28% of income to 35% of income. It dropped down to 30% under Bush II (incidentally, most of the 28 to 35% hike happened under Reagan and Bush I.) What's lacking here is context. Taxes for the rich plumetted between 1950 and 1985, by 70%. In 1950, the top 1% payed a 91% income tax.

What's also missing is the relative impact on the finances of the person paying taxes. See, costs are not relative to an individuals wealth; Donald Trump and the guy washing your windshield at the intersection both pay the same price for a cheeseburger. In effect this means that 28% of my income is much larger a burden to me than 28% of Bill Gates' income is to him. Further, between 1975 and 2000, the income of the top 1% rose, on average, about 500%.

You are also ignoring the many, many loophole in place for those of large means.

Bottom line; the extremely rich may pay a large chunk of total taxes, but it is a vastly smaller chunk than they would have been paying even as recently as 1980. Further, their incomes have rocketed upwards while their tax rates have crashed into the ground, and what taxes they do pay are offset by large shelters and, in many cases, wealth welfare. Lastly, since costs are constant throughout the income spectrum, a dollar is functionally worth more to someone at the bottom than at the top.

You can hardly call a 30% tax rate "a burden" with these factors considered.

reply to post by TheWalkingFox


And you can't deny that the average (white) American was better off in 1950.

There was a time when one worker could generally take care of an entire household.

reply to post by schlub


Unfortunately nothing can be done. This is not Obama's fault. It's not b/c its the same story every administration. Promises. Promises. Once they get into office, they realize the system is so broke and so damaged only patches here and there may offer some relief. It's not Bush's fault, its not Clinton's fault, its not Bush's fault, nor Reagan, Carter and so on.. (well Reagan had a larger hand to play in than most.. since him Spending went out of control b/c he was the All American Cowboy that said Americans deserve everything). However, it is mostly our fault b/c we want the American way of life to be sustained. Well, it can't be. Our whole system is broken. The fed is near bankruptcy. The USDollar is shrinking in value and we owe more money to more governments than anyone else. Yet, we have these politicians who trick the American public that spending is out of control and we need change. Well, spending was out of control under Bush. He dam well near doubled our national debt. Created this TARP/Economic Stimulus plan for Obama too put it into law, then Blame Obama for creating this deficit that Republicans partly created. Then the typical American falls for the same ol'political tricks. Its all a sham. The only way the system will get fixed and this sounds harsh is if Yellowstone erupts and wipes out over half the worlds population. we have experienced a huge explosion in population, everytime 2 people are born, only 1 person dies and an additional 100,000,000 people are born every year using more and more dwindling resources. This will put it into perspective.. I don't know how to attach something, but a Parabolic Curve is something that gradually inclines overtime and can be shown on a chart. Then all of a sudden it shoots up and increases at a 90degree incline. When it peaks out and goes straight up, it collapses everytime. We see it happen in the stock market all the time and chartists use this as a trading strategy. what goes up, must come down. Well, the population of man has gradually increased the past 2,000 years for it to sky rocket the past 100 years. we are now at a 90 degree incline. It will collapse b/c the laws of physics can not maintain it.

Food cant be produced enough, water is going in short supply, and oil production is past its peak. not that we are running out of oil, but meaning there are so many people putting a drain on supply that demand can no longer be met and is continuing its decline.

The same people who created this financial mess, are the same poeple we will rely on to fix it. Does that make any sense?

Now, working 50 hours a week isn't that bad. I did it and I did it while sick. However, you are lucky. You have a job. I've been unemployed for 20 months with the exception of a couple of temp jobs. But i'm informed. I know I can't rely on the government for anything b/c once the Federal Reserve bankrupts itself or Oil runs out, or whatever happens in my opinion, I will have to become completely reliant on mysefl for food, water and shelter!

reply to post by schlub


A combination of more or less being the only nation i nthe world with a strong economy paired with a well-built "safety net" can have that effect. Nowadays we've got lots of global competition, and we've been cutting holes in our own safety net. So.

I think a lot of the irritation is that we're annoyed that the taxes taken are not applied appropriately. The middle class is really taxed to death. On top of the tax amts I posted I have 4 other state taxes that are ridiculous.I wouldnt mind a bit paying taxes if they were properly applied, personally. Im sick of paying for generational welfare families, their cable and cells.. which they get free on my dime here. Im tired of paying for unjust wars and BS. Im tired of paying for presidents vacations and general BS.Im tired of paying for road maintenance that never gets done and our infrastructure is crumbling. Im tired of paying for police protection through the nose and then they claim they have no money and lay off 13 deputies so its over 200 people per every one cop.Im tired of TIF districts paying for free crap for the connected people. We have serious issues here that we could comfortably take care of IF the money was appropriated correctly.

Many from other countries like to compare.. but they shouldnt be enjoying their taxes either. Just because theirs is worse we should be fine with ours? Thats crazy. I hear people smack talk us when we gripe about the price of gas. because in Europe its sooo much higher. Well, I wonder how many in Europe have to drive 30-45 min to a grocery store or 30 minutes to a Dr? or 1.5 hours to work one way? Our public transportation is basically nonexistant country wide. You get bronchitis you pay 2200.00 for a steroid inhaler out of pocket depending on what crappy insurance choice is pushed on you.. the US is a mess. We have every right to bitch and moan. If the rest of the world is okay with their taxation and problems.. fine. Dont gripe.. but dont demand our silence concerning our OWN country.





While you make a valid point, most people in this country live in a city or near a city. I'd say its upwards to 90% of the population lives in urban or suburban areas. So most of us only have to drive a few minutes to a grocery store or Dcotors apointment. And, even people in suburban areas still have on average an hour commute. But we totally take it for granted that we still have the cheapest oil in the world. Yes, we can complain but what about the person who has to pay $7.00 per gallon of gas in Ireland to travel 60 miles round trip for work? The U.S. is a mess and i'm sorry to say, its not going to get better. not for a very long time. The U.S. has become to complacent and status quo.. we won't change. So therefore all the goods and services we used to produce and built this country are all gone and outsourced. We have reached our peak. But, in my opinion, who cares. i find no reason to be the most powerful country in the world. Well, one, b/c we are NOT. its all image. Any country from Japan to Canada can take us on and destroy us, like we can destroy them.. Americans are so complacent and way to worried about the Superbowl than they are with social political events. Just like Rome, the government built more collesiums and theatres and events to please the public b/c romans didn't want the status quo to change.. well this greed lead to their collapse. Same thing will happen with us. Its happened to every country, every civilization thru out time. We are no different. the only difference is that we are more of a one world civilization than ever before and everything, everywhere can collapse at once..

This whole thread reminds me of a qoute i once heard,theres only two things certain in life Death and Taxes.No way to avoid either one of them thats the real kicker.

reply to post by schlub

In order to meet my financial obligations, I frequently work up to 50 hours of overtime PER WEEK. My employer stupidly (because it's against federal law) allows me to work 38 - 55 hour SHIFTS occasionally. My record shift stretched from Friday night to Monday morning. I kid you not. While the money is okay, the hours are killing me. The lack of sleep is killing me. I have no relationships outside of work anymore. I can't get my schoolwork done. In order to actually save cash, I have to work myself to death. I work and work and have little to show for it.

The answer is simple...YOU are living above your means. You are trying to live a lifestyle that your finances will not support.

You shouldn't blame others for that...that is a decision made by you...take some responsibility for it.

So the other day I sit down to do my taxes and find out that the government wants me to pay two weeks worth of wages.

Am I the only one seeing this??? TWO WEEKS???

That is around 3% of your wages that you are paying in taxes....WTF are you complaining about?

My husband and I had a conversation about taxes this weekend, which is why the OP caught my eye. I know that we have to contribute to the upkeep and repair of the common property and services which we all use. I mean, who else is going to pay for it. If I use it, why shouldn't I help to keep it going? But who is it that decided how much I have to pay and where it all goes? When did the government become a giant landlord? Who decided that if I own a foot of property, I pay X amount of dollars...forever...no questions asked?

I realized that our votes are supposed to dictate all of this. But it seems so out of control to me, and I just don't understand it at all. I honestly feel that it is NOT in our hands...at all.

Am I the only one seeing this??? TWO WEEKS???

That is around 3% of your wages that you are paying in taxes....WTF are you complaining about?

Maybe he means over and above what he has already paid every week out of his paycheck. It is truly frustrating and disheartening to bring home so little of your paycheck each month and then STILL owe more at the end of the year. And then get a letter from the IRS 4 years later stating that they "found and error" and that you now owe an additional $2693.

But I don't know. I am just speculating at the original poster's intended meaning. I guess I will let him answer.

reply to post by idunno12

Maybe he means over and above what he has already paid every week out of his paycheck. It is truly frustrating and disheartening to bring home so little of your paycheck each month and then STILL owe more at the end of the year. And then get a letter from the IRS 4 years later stating that they "found and error" and that you now owe an additional $2693.

Taxes really shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone, individuals or business owners. It is all known ahead of time and it is something that should be planned for.

If he is having to pay more than what is taken out of his paycheck...then he is having too little taken out of his paycheck. That is his choice to make.

If the IRS finds an error...then guess what...you made an error in filing your taxes. Just because you make an error doesn't mean you should be able to get out of paying.