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Can anyone explain the justification for the United States Federal Tax burden? They're killing me.

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posted on Jan, 27 2011 @ 01:29 AM
Note: you could probably skip to paragraph 4 and be safe, but I'd appreciate if you give this post some time and go ahead and read all of it.

The economy of the United States is suffering due to low employment and low consumer spending. The solution is to put jobs and more money into the hands of people who need them. Instead, Obama's solution has been to starve the economy. Corporations' solutions have been to cut staff, which also starves the economy. All of these solutions will do nothing but hurt the economy, and this may be intentional. There may be a plan by the elites to turn the US into a 3rd world economy. If so, they are doing a bang-up job.

Obama, rather than simply creating jobs, such as the public works plans that FDR did, has spent $250,000 per job created. Our economy would have been better off had Obama just awarded the money with a lottery to people who need it. Instead, it was sent, no-questions-asked, to businesses, who only occasionally used it to create new jobs. Read more here:

On top of this, Obama somehow forgot his mandate and that he was elected by a push from the Left, not the Right, and that it is the Left that he is failing, not the Right (no matter how much Fox News blusters.) It is the progressive ideas that he has abandoned. He has expanded and spent more on wars, he has kept Guantanamo Bay open, he has done nothing to turn back the Patriot Act, and rather than helping the American people, he has kowtowed to big business and Wall Street, to the detriment of our country. Rather than seeing Republican victories as a refusal of Left wingers to vote, and seeing the tea party as a business-backed ruse, he reached out to Republicans and renewed tax cuts for the rich! See here:

So while these rich people have health care, good education, safe neighborhoods, safe streets, and more money than they can count (being the top 3% of all wage earners in the country), I am barely making it. Perhaps some of you out there can sympathize.

Here is my story. I doubt that I am alone.

I did what my culture always advised. I worked hard at school and got good grades. Though I did drugs and misbehaved in other ways growing up, I mostly behaved myself. I got a college degree for which I was unable to find jobs. Undaunted, I worked and still work in IT, during which time I've seen peoples' jobs outsourced, and been laid off. Today I work an IT job making half of what I did a year before while I pursue an advanced degree.

In order to meet my financial obligations, I frequently work up to 50 hours of overtime PER WEEK. My employer stupidly (because it's against federal law) allows me to work 38 - 55 hour SHIFTS occasionally. My record shift stretched from Friday night to Monday morning. I kid you not. While the money is okay, the hours are killing me. The lack of sleep is killing me. I have no relationships outside of work anymore. I can't get my schoolwork done. In order to actually save cash, I have to work myself to death. I work and work and have little to show for it.

So the other day I sit down to do my taxes and find out that the government wants me to pay two weeks worth of wages. Unbelievable. While these rich pieces of garbage get more money back, and while they go the best schools and best hospitals and have the best neighborhoods, I can barely make it.

In sum, my question is this: why is so much being asked of me, but not of these rich assholes? Could you imagine if a CEO had to pay two week's salary?? Instead they hide earnings in off-shore accounts and hire accountants to find tricky ways to get around contributing.

I don't mind supporting the infrastructure of my country, but 80% of my taxes will go toward foreign wars that have nothing to do with me.

What can be done about this? Is anyone else going through this?

edit on 27-1-2011 by schlub because: (no reason given)

posted on Jan, 27 2011 @ 01:37 AM
The reason the rich assholes aren't paying much is twofold.

One, the politicians are all rich assholes

Two, most Americans want to be rich assholes.

The two dovetail rather nicely. The rich assholes in the government all demand lower taxes and more loopholes for rich assholes, while the poor assholes that vote, have delusions about becoming rich assholes and want to enjoy the tax-free and loopholed status of the current rich assholes. Even if it means putting hte burden of debt on their fellow poor assholes.

So Rich Asshole Politician tells Rich Asshole Wannabe, "If you vote to remove my tax burden, the magical Invisible Hand of the Voodoo Market will make you a Rich Asshole, too!" and Rich Asshole Wannabe goes "Oh boy!" and hurries to vote for Rich Assholes to pay fewer taxes.

And that's why you pay more than Rich Assholes, you poor asshole!

posted on Jan, 27 2011 @ 01:42 AM
Can't blame the rich for everything. Don't get so hung up on what they are doing all of the time. Focus on what you can do now and in your life is my advice. I went to a community college for a semester and never went back. I'm glad I didn't go back. Finding a job is difficult combined with a big debt you have problems.

posted on Jan, 27 2011 @ 01:44 AM
Now sure and render unto Caesar like a good slave. Questioning why will only frustrate you and lead to unproductivity.

And we can't have unproductive slaves sitting around being unproductive can we?

Your wealthy superiors and elected officials know what is best.

Where is your faith in the system?

posted on Jan, 27 2011 @ 01:55 AM
I agree with you, I do not understand this either.

It is really frustrating to pay equal or more taxes than rich folks who can afford to not get a tax refund. I carefully plan for weeks how I'm going to spend my tax refund to make sure I get as much out of it as possible. Most of it however, is spent catching up on bills.

It makes me mad that I have to pay equal or greater taxes than people that make my yearly salary in a month.

posted on Jan, 27 2011 @ 02:02 AM

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
Two, most Americans want to be rich assholes.

You're right about this. Everyone when they're young thinks that if they just work hard, they'll end up like the well-to-do people they see on TV all the time. But the truth is, the biggest predictor of being rich is having rich parents. Also, luck plays a role.

And to the poster who told me to just worry about what I'm doing - I'm doing what I can. I'm working myself to death.

Is anyone else finding that they're paying a ton of taxes this year?

posted on Jan, 27 2011 @ 02:06 AM
All of your tax money goes to paying off the debt! ALL OF IT! All of this is planned! You can't do anything to stop it. Vote for anyone you want, it won't make a difference at all. You could vote in the pope and still have the exact same results. Vote in Donald Trump or Jessie Ventura or Obama again. It doesn't matter, you will have the same results. Like any government in the history of the world, no one will do anything about how corrupt it is until 90% of the people are starving. Then the revolt will happen, and the current government will be thrown out. Then we will put in place a new government and things will change a bit. Then they will slowly get worse again, until everyone is starving and has to do it all over again.
It's just the way it works, so your best bet is to just learn to live with it. That or fight the system. I don't know how to fight the system so you'll have to talk to someone else about it. The problem is that no one knows how to fight the system until they are starving.

posted on Jan, 27 2011 @ 02:08 AM
This is a little of topic but does relate to taxes. Im a smoker, I pay out the wazoo on tobacco taxes. I know that it is my choice to smoke, however, I believe I should receive a tax break cause I pay so much in taxes just for smoking.

posted on Jan, 27 2011 @ 04:38 AM
Food stamps and wellfare checks don't pay for themselves... somebody's gotta take it in the rear and it's those of us in the middle and upper middle class. But hey, if it's any consolation, we're an endangered species. Another couple years at the rate we're going and we'll be pining for the good ol days of 2010...

posted on Jan, 27 2011 @ 05:37 AM
reply to post by burdman30ott6

Exactly! But I don't blame people on welfare. I blame a country that doesn't create jobs, that doesn't value education, that doesn't provide health care. Instead, all of our tax money goes to starting more wars.

Right now I'm fortunate enough to have work, but if companies here continue to not be penalized for tossing Americans out in the streets, it won't be long until my job disappears too.

I've also noticed that, while my taxes go up and up, state, federal, and local governments are slashing budgets. Well, there go more American jobs, more money circulating through the economy, and more support for working people, who, after all, are the consumers that prop this whole stupid game up.

Capitalists seem to forget that someone out there has to actually buy their baubles. How am I supposed to buy gas, overpriced health care, food, electronics, and all the other nonsense out there, if there are no jobs, low wages, high crime, etc.?? I've put up with a lot, but they're trying to get blood out of a turnip here.

I can maybe afford to pay the taxes, but barely. I would imagine that there are quite a few people out there who cant afford to pay at all.

posted on Jan, 27 2011 @ 06:09 AM
I think your problem is mainly in the area of job outsourcing and the basic economy instead of the taxes......
have you ever wondered why you have to work that much overtime to meet your financial obligations?
that one has very little to do with taxes, and alot to do with a multiple of influences that are throwing the whole balance in the economy out of kilter...all of course aimed at putting more money into the rich person's hands...even welfare, if you go through the chain far enough, serves to put more money into the rich person's hands, since it it diverts the cost that these companies would have to pay to keep those workers healthy enough to continue working off their books and onto the general taxpayers shoulders.
ya, there are alot of people just laying back and not working, and accepting handouts...but there are many, many others who are working, and well, just finding that they need more money that they can make to pay for the necessities of life. and well....I don't care how you play with the numbers, it's gonna cost the society as a whole for the money they need to flow through the current system, than it would just to pay those workers the money they need...
add to that the fact that many of these companies are getting tax breaks and gov't funding out the wazoo, a bribe for them to keep their jobs in this country, is the upper lower and middle class footing most of the bills....

posted on Jan, 27 2011 @ 06:30 AM
The fact that you have to work 50 hours a week just to get by means one of two things

1) you live beyond your means- whatever that means varies on the individual

2) you are being exploited.

Most American workers are exploited. You can tell this is the case when you look at our productivity numbers. This is why Social Security is important. For starters, you are getting back what you paid into it- it would have a huge surpluss if the government had not raided its coffers- it would be solvent forever if the Republicans hadn't gone on a sixty year campaign to kill it. Ask yourself, if it was going insolvent why wouldn't they raise the social security cap on millionaires? Would it hurt them so bad to pay an extra one or two percent tax to take care of the elderly and lame?

What's lost in all of this is a thorough understanding of the social forces at play during the Depression. Remember the powers that came into power here and abroad. Think of German Nationalism- a far right wing movement, Communism- a far left wing movement, and Italian Fascism- a conglomeration of corporate power mingling with government power, also far right.

In America, it was clearly realized that something had to be done to change the fundamental capitalist system so that we, too, wouldn't end up like Europe. Roosevelt adopted some socialist programs in the New Deal because Americans demanded something and would have revolted had these protections and jobs programs not been created. That's a fact. It's easily determined by reading newspapers and commentary of the day.

What surprises me now, is that there are no angry outbursts from the unemployed. We are a uniquely civil society, I think because of a long history of the government smoothing things over when it needs to. Yes, it's a fact that we are structurally in defecit. It's because of wars and tax cuts. Wars and tax cuts. Unfunded wars and unfunded tax cuts. It's not because of social security. It's not because of unemployment insurance. It's not because of you and me.

posted on Jan, 27 2011 @ 06:30 AM
reply to post by dawnstar

My luxury expenses come out to about $120 a month for internet access and cell phone. Technically, I don't need them. I could probably get by with $20 a month on a cheap cell phone. I don't own a TV or get cable. I spend more on food than I could. I spend around $100 a month on utilities which isn't too bad.

The real hit is child support, which costs quite a bit. I'd rather have the kiddo live with me, but I've basically been told I wouldn't win that fight.

I've sworn off credit cards. So the rest is just the daily expenses and the occasional video game.

I'm not one of those Americans who lives above my means. Prices go up. I'm not perfect, but I'm far from the scum who run the financial institutions and the government in this place.

Glome: I do spend about 25% of my income on rent, but it's the only way I can live in a safe area.

I was shocked to see how high my taxes were. Has anyone else run into this this year or is it just me?

edit on 27-1-2011 by schlub because: (no reason given)

posted on Jan, 27 2011 @ 06:37 AM
reply to post by schlub

many families that have two incomes are having a hard time getting by....
and well, we got many families in this country that are basically trying to keep two households.....
it's not gonna work, it isn't working, and well, it adds to the tax burden when the families have to seek outside assistance to hold those two households together.
so, well, mom is usually left of the hook, since she usually is the one who has the kids to contend with, but dad is drained, and then the gov't is left to fill in the shortfall....
the best possible solution would be, if at all possible, is to become one family again, under one roof.....
or well, just set out to make a marriage work to begin with and bypass that road completely!!

posted on Jan, 27 2011 @ 07:18 AM
reply to post by dawnstar

We tried but decided that we didn't want our son to model an unhealthy relationship. Also, the relationship became unhealthy after he was born, so there was no way to know what would happen. I will also mention that my ex makes twice as much money as me, so I actually can't provide as good a life for my son because of the child support I pay out.

I think it's interesting that we have a tendency to blame the victim rather than look at the basic dysfunction in our society and government. As I said, I'm not perfect, but I haven't caused the kind of damage to our economy that many of the people have that will walk away with repeated tax cuts.

And my personal life aside, I don't see why my tax burden is so large relative to my income. My brethren are dying in pointless wars, taking classes to get degrees that will not lead to jobs, getting sick and paying out the nose because they don't have health care, and people don't seem to care. They either buy into the small government propaganda nonsense or believe Obama is actually doing good. As was said before, it will probably take everyone losing their livelihood for people to really see what's going on.

Not to mention, there was a time when one earner could raise a family. We need to bring our country back to that point again.
edit on 27-1-2011 by schlub because: Because my personal life is being attacked by someone who doesn't have the information.

posted on Jan, 27 2011 @ 09:21 AM

The real hit is child support, which costs quite a bit. I'd rather have the kiddo live with me, but I've basically been told I wouldn't win that fight.

I feel your pain. They stuck the child support needle into my arm in 1996. Three kids until the age of 19. I was on the lucky side though. My ex chose $50/week per kid. Which was less then the official tables allow. But then again the child support department tacks on and additional 2% just because they can. To make matters worse 96’ was the highest income year for me ever. Since then they dropped commission and my income went down and has never recovered. My W2 has stayed the same for 15 years. The thought came to change jobs a few times but there is a certain fear when you have that needle in you plus you are 50ish. I have eaten peanut butter sandwiches and an apple 5 days a week for lunch since 96. But on the bright side my last kid will be paid for in 6 months. I should get the pink slip in June.

As to the main point of the thread.
As citizens we have enjoyed all these services provided by TPTB for all these years. Even though we did not pay for them at the time. TPTB have used accounting tricks to hand out the goodies and get themselves re elected. Now the bill has come due.

If you look at the stats 50% of the population does not pay taxes. My ex is one. It’s not the top earners who pay nothing, it’s the bottom half who get off the hook. And the myth of off shore accounts has become just that, a myth. The IRS has changed the rules and have actively gone after the dodgers. They had an amnesty period but that expired a couple of years ago.

posted on Jan, 27 2011 @ 04:24 PM
reply to post by samkent

Wow. You're paying about the same for 3 kids that I'm paying for 1. And trust me, I'm no big time money-earner. So I guess my question is, how am I supposed to pay a tax I can't afford?

posted on Jan, 27 2011 @ 07:18 PM
I neglected to mention I had to maintain medical insurance on them. Plus I had to pay all out of pocket medical/dental/optical expenses. My insurance doesn’t cover dental or optical so that was a big hit each time. Plus I didn’t mention I have them 2 days per week (weekends) and almost no holidays. But I do feel yours and all the other male child support pain.

posted on Jan, 27 2011 @ 07:27 PM
Im giving an approximate here..

Social Security Taxes withheld = 5480.00
Federal Income Tax= 4600.00
State income tax = 2200.00 plus add to that they have raised our state income tax 66% for next years filing .

No lube either.

posted on Jan, 27 2011 @ 07:33 PM
Then consider living in Europe, where the tax burden is much higher and the wages lower.

Many critics have erroneously claimed that the Reagan and Bush tax cuts only benefited the wealthy. The truth is that ever since Reagan, the rich have borne an ever-increasing share of the tax burden while the poor have been removed entirely from the tax rolls, says Investor's Business Daily (IBD).

According to a study by the National Center for Policy Analysis:

From 1986 to 2004, the total share of the income tax burden paid by the top 1 percent of income earners grew by nearly half, from 25.8 percent to 36.9 percent.

Over that same time, the burden of the bottom 50 percent of earners was almost halved from 6.5 percent to 3.3 percent.

The Tax Foundation has noted that in 2000, a year before the first tax cuts under Bush, roughly 30 million tax returns had no income tax liability. Every dollar those earners made they kept.

By 2004, a year after the second round of cuts was passed, 43 million returns had no tax. It estimates that, in all, more than 25 million Americans have been wiped off the federal tax rolls just by President Bush.

OK: To summarize, then.

The top 1% pay over a third of the taxes.
The top 50% pay about 96% of the taxes.
The bottom 50% pay a little over 3% of the taxes with 43 million returns paying NOTHING at all.

Now, let's talk about your tax "burden."

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