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Obama's TSA pat-downs joke infuriates ACLU

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posted on Jan, 26 2011 @ 04:10 PM
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reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 


My problem is that I am not "ok" with having to forego my 4th Amendment right so that you can feel secure. Your feeling of security is YOUR problem, not mine. Why should i have to have my rights suspended?

Flying is a risky endeavor. If you choose to fly, you choose to assume the risks that come with flying. That is what "personal responsibility" means. It doesn't mean that you have a goon squad come and grope me to ensure that my "junk" isn't explosive.




posted on Jan, 26 2011 @ 04:11 PM
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reply to post by DimensionalDetective
 


Obama's TSA pat-downs joke infuriates ACLU

It "infuriated" them so much that they tweeted a one liner? Really? A tweet?

On to try and find some debate worthy news..



posted on Jan, 26 2011 @ 04:12 PM
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Originally posted by DimensionalDetective

First it starts with the flying, then as we can see from your post, it moves onto cars, and you best believe that this "train" Obumbler is touting will have the same goons groping folks at their check-ins as well, and the same folks will be singing their praises, "it keeps us all safe from the terrorists, just don't take the trains or drive". lmao



For whatever reason(s), TSA/ Dept. of Homeland Security don't seem to be off the "investment" list for the future!

There are currently 15,750 of such positions available nationwide...according to their own site:

jobsearch.usajobs.gov/Search.aspx?lid=316&sort=rv2cdtex&rad_units=miles&brd=3876&pp=25&qt=default&jbf574=HSBC&vw=b&re=134&FedEmp=N&FedPub=Y&calle r=advanced.aspx

The "joke" is really on the people, as you say.



edit on 26-1-2011 by sonjah1 because: attempts to correct url



posted on Jan, 26 2011 @ 04:14 PM
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reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 

“The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

You also have to read past "unreasonable" it also states "probable cause"
Show me where they had probable cause to search baby's and kids, elderly in wheel chairs, nun's and even St. Nick at Christmas.
I'm also guaranteed the freedom to move about my country without infringement of my rights.



posted on Jan, 26 2011 @ 04:27 PM
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Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by DimensionalDetective
 


What I'd lke to know, is why your source is so absurdly careless....in writing that last night's SOTU was President Obama's third such speech??

Doesn't speak well for their cognitive (and editing) abilites....

And, tempest in a teapot. ACLU has bigger fish to fry.


His third state of the union.



posted on Jan, 26 2011 @ 04:41 PM
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Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by Resurrectio
 





Can you say "holier than thou"


Why yes I can, I can also say all of my ABCs, tell you that 2 + 2 = 4, what my phone number and address is in case I get lost at the Mall, and sing about that dog named Bingo!





And you commented on maturity earlier... Interesting. Hypocrisy at it's finest.
I believe everyone should have a lighter side.. Nice to see you have one.




First of all.. I was speaking of the offense taken by his one single comment about pat downs.. The ACLU really is that upset? That is ridiculous!!!!




Have you spoken with any ACLU Offices or Administrators today by any chance? I am betting no, so what makes your 'pretend' version so alluring?


Maybe I am mistaken, but, isn't the title of this thread "Obama's TSA pat-downs joke infuriates ACLU"..
Which pretend version would you be referring to?




I am not telling people how to feel, just disappointed and surprised. Am I allowed to have an opinion, without having to be talked down to by you?



Evidently no, no your not!






You have the right to say no.. You have the right to not fly! You know what is expected to get on the plane.... If you don't like it DON'T FLY.. It is that easy. Flying is not your right.. It is a privilege to fly on someone's plane. If it was your plane, you could make the rules, but it is not.




I have the right to determine what I believe is right and right for me and to pursue that in any fashion I believe is right and right for me.

This is what is at the core of what inalienable rights and self determination are all about.

Priveleges
which I do not need or seek are based on a performance/reward system determined by others.

You trying to define what anyone's rights or priveleges
are is absolutely absurd, the fact that you seek and require persmission
in all things simply bespeaks of slavery nothing more nothing less.

Seriously.


Lets make this simple for you..
If someone comes to my home, I expect them to take off their shoes. They then have 2 choices, take them off, or don't come in. It is that cut and dry.

When you go on a roller coaster, they DEMAND you wear shoes. You have 2 choices.. Ride with shoes, or don't ride.
If you don't like the rules or expectations on anything in life, you have the "inalienable rights" to NOT participate.

Am I wrong?

This isn't a big " I am sick of the man holding me down!" This is a company or companies having a policy that you are not comfortable with.






It is not as if they are giving you a handy in the airport.. Do you think these people doing the searches are happy they have to touch your junk?




I would assume happier than your mortified and dissapointed
English teachers are.


I am sure that your english teacher is equally as disappointed .. Just saying!



As I have said there are people who really do aspire too and want everyone else to be part of the lowest possible common denominator your choice of verbage
does a great job at displaying that.


Well, your choice of topics such as verbiage is laughable!
What do they say has happened when a poster starts centering on a persons grammar and spelling?




You made a statement about 100 years of successful travel without these new precautions.. You are either intentionally leaving out important info.. Or are simply ignorant.. Adapt and change with the changing times..




Actually if you knew anything about aviation at all, it has always and will always have inherent dangers since man was not born with wings. Times have not in fact changed the political landscape in the United States has changed for the worst from the "Home of the Free and the Brave" to the "Home of the Cowering and Radiatied".



While your talking to my english teacher, be sure to ask her if she has been radiated.
I am really glad you pointed that out.. I wasn't aware that we didn't have wings. I was also unaware that we had equally as many threats 80 years ago.. Silly me, was under the impression that we had made many more enemies in the past 50 years. I am pleased to find out that, as far as air travel goes, we are equally as safe today, as we were 80 years ago. (from terrorist attacks)



Why is this hard to grasp? Why is it so unacceptable? If you didn't like the hand stamp at chucky cheese, you would simply not go right? If you didn't want to show your ID for your Sudafed purchase, you would simply not buy it!




Wrong and wrong, I would refuse the hand stamp and enter anyway, I would demand that the product be supplied, and yes, in both your examples I have done this, and I have to tell you the Sudafed thing really ticked me off, and had the store not complied with my wishes may have led to an open declaration of war by me on the State!


This says allot about you. Those stamps aren't taking away any of your rights.. Those stamps are there to add an extra safety measure to protect our kids against child abduction. What kind of dolt would refuse them?



Things have changed drastically in the last 30 to 40 years. Terrorists and people that are determined to deliver a blow to America, have made it clear that airplanes are a target. If you can't see the need for increased security when it comes to airlines and airline policy, you are naive.




Can you say brain dead, your seat back cushion doubles as a safety and flotation device whose thickness will definately
ward off attacks by box cutters.


I will definitely look into that information.


Why yes I can, I can also say all of my ABCs, tell you that 2 + 2 = 4, what my phone number and address is in case I get lost at the Mall, and sing about that dog named Bingo!




In your world where people show no personal initiative people would just sit and cower while the strong have there way, in the real world where people take real self responsibility and initiative no, a couple guys with box cutters can't take over multiple planes.

You have a lying, theiving,
murdering government and you are in fact complicit in those things by your inability and refusal to think outside of the parameters they tell you that you must in order to get a box of sudafed and into chuckie cheese, how cheaply will some people sell themselves.

Our problem with terrorism is a government using terrorist tactics to cause people who think like you to submit to any absurd thing they wish you too.


Some people that run businesses have rules. These rules are there because the owner of these businesses want them. If I am not mistaken, it is their business, therefore it is their prerogative. You always have the option to boycott that business. Right?




ohhh noooo my rights are deteriorating... I have no more rights. I believe in standing up for our rights.. But some folks take it way to far! Jared Laughner would be a good example of a American that let paranoia turn into delusion..



I don't care about your rights, only you can and should care about your rights, I am not here to protect your rights, because only you can first define them and protect them. But hey if you want to be scared of some kid who decided to exercise his right to do what ever he wanted with his life, then that's on you.

I don't share that fear, since fears are almost always imagined and seldom if ever come true.

Anyone who is offering you security in a temporal world is simply lying to you. There is no such thing, in life you take your chances, you roll the dice, you either win, or you lose.


I do not believe in cushioning the world for us and our youth.. But, I do feel that there are necessary safety measures that are necessary or at minimum warranted.




I bet there are a bunch more loose screws that are slowly getting more and more paranoid, to the point of delusions.




I am sure too which is why some of us try real hard to help those who suffer no self respect, fear of everything from who's on an airplane to who is on a shopping mall, try to help you find some common sense and courage.

Those who can not think independently and rationally represent a clear and inherent danger to themselves, and the inability of so many Americans unable to think independently and rationally has caused a tremendous amount of damage to this nation.

Damage you want to use slang to describe and joke about, while telling everyone else, roll over like me you will be happy, but the truth is you aren't happy and you did roll over. Now you just are pretending the only reason you are unhappy is because too many people won't roll over like you.

That my friend is the epitome of dellusional.


That would be delusional
No brother, I really am happy. I don't suffer from the same delusion that you do. I see that our govt. is crooked as the day is long. I also see them taking away our freedoms.

I might be the small minority here, but, I feel the extra security is a deterrent, that is working in some way shape or form.

I find it amazing that you had the nerve to pick apart my spelling and or grammar. People in glass houses should not throw rocks.



posted on Jan, 26 2011 @ 04:44 PM
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reply to post by Resurrectio
 


Wish I could star and flag your response a thousand times over!



posted on Jan, 26 2011 @ 05:04 PM
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Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 


My problem is that I am not "ok" with having to forego my 4th Amendment right so that you can feel secure. Your feeling of security is YOUR problem, not mine. Why should i have to have my rights suspended?

Flying is a risky endeavor. If you choose to fly, you choose to assume the risks that come with flying. That is what "personal responsibility" means. It doesn't mean that you have a goon squad come and grope me to ensure that my "junk" isn't explosive.


You suspend your rights when you buy the ticket. Flying is a privilege not a right and you have to agree with the terms the airline sets forth. After all having the plane blow up mid air due to a bomb is not one of the normal risks that come with flying.



posted on Jan, 26 2011 @ 05:14 PM
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Originally posted by Whereweheaded
reply to post by Resurrectio
 


Wish I could star and flag your response a thousand times over!


Resurrectio is saying the same thing I am!
Yet you praise him and argue with me?



posted on Jan, 26 2011 @ 05:19 PM
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reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 


Whoops I stand corrected. My bad, I meant to star and flag mtnshredder. I'll take the hit for that one~



posted on Jan, 26 2011 @ 05:25 PM
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Originally posted by mtnshredder
You also have to read past "unreasonable" it also states "probable cause"


Just because the words 'probable cause' stick out doesn't mean you can ignore the context. The probable cause phrase is about getting WARRANTS. Warrants cannot be issued without probable cause. No warrants are being issued here, so probable cause is irrelevant in this situation.

Jesus! You guys (you and Whereweheaded) need to read more...



I'm also guaranteed the freedom to move about my country without infringement of my rights.


You ARE free to do so. Move. Walk, run, drive, turn cartwheels to get where you want. But you do not have the right to FLY.


edit on 1/26/2011 by Benevolent Heretic because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 26 2011 @ 05:31 PM
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reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 


Why are so closed minded? You claim freedom, but all you have done in front of many ATS'ers is embrace ignorance?


Please take the time to re-read the Bill of rights, then come back and talk to us. I think re-runs of Sesame street are in your future.

Here you go, right up your ally! www.abovetopsecret.com...

Sesame street survival tips!





.
edit on 26-1-2011 by Whereweheaded because: (no reason given)

edit on 26-1-2011 by Whereweheaded because: (no reason given)

edit on 26-1-2011 by Whereweheaded because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 26 2011 @ 05:37 PM
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reply to post by buster2010
 



Originally posted by buster2010
You suspend your rights when you buy the ticket. Flying is a privilege not a right and you have to agree with the terms the airline sets forth.






Originally posted by WWJFKD

"Rights are Special Privileges the Government gives you." Excuse me?

John Adams, "You have rights antecedent to all earthly governments: rights that cannot be repealed or restrained by human laws; rights derived from the Great Legislator of the universe."

Frederick Bastiat, "Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place."

Justice William J. Brennan, "The Framers of the Bill of Rights did not purport to "create" rights. Rather they designed the Bill of Rights to prohibit our Government from infringing rights and liberties presumed to be preexisting."

Benjamin Franklin, "Freedom is not a gift bestowed upon us by other men, but a right that belongs to us by the laws of God and nature."


I guess these guys ought to know what was intended with our rights they wrote the thing to begin with. It amuses me when man attempts to interpret the Constitution, Bill of rights in todays terms with absolutely no knowledge of the quotes from the men who wrote them, who made it quite clear exactly what was meant by them, funny how that is never taken into consideration.

A Bill of Rights is what the people are entitled to against every government, and what no just government should refuse, or rest on inference. Thomas Jefferson

Could it be any clearer.





'nough said.




Originally posted by buster2010

After all having the plane blow up mid air due to a bomb is not one of the normal risks that come with flying.


Well, isn't that the point? It kinda is.



posted on Jan, 26 2011 @ 06:04 PM
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reply to post by Resurrectio
 





Maybe I am mistaken, but, isn't the title of this thread "Obama's TSA pat-downs joke infuriates ACLU"..


Yes you clearly seem mistaken about a lot of things, but hey don't let me stop you from that pursuit of folly.




Lets make this simple for you..
If someone comes to my home, I expect them to take off their shoes. They then have 2 choices, take them off, or don't come in. It is that cut and dry.


You explain that to the Government Agents who you have empowered through things like the TSA when they want to come in your home.

Chances are it would work about as good as it would with me, because I am bringing a Kirby Vacum Clearner to demonstrate, and the biggest bag of dirt you have ever seen in the world!

I hope that old Kirby still works?






When you go on a roller coaster, they DEMAND you wear shoes. You have 2 choices.. Ride with shoes, or don't ride.


You might want to start reading some classics, history and philosophy and stop reading all those signs. I can't believe people pay attention to those things. That's just nuts.

Believe me, no one is coming to inspect whether I have shoes on a roller coaster car hurdeling at 60 miles an hour around a sharp bend perched 240 feet in the air.

Wow, you really do have a real problem with authority, namely listening to everything it says, frightening I say!




If you don't like the rules or expectations on anything in life, you have the "inalienable rights" to NOT participate.


I participate on my own terms, always have, always will, sure it can be a challenge for others at times, but hey life should not be dull!




Am I wrong?


WHAT'S THE MATTER COULDN'T FIND A SIGN TO TELL YOU?




This isn't a big " I am sick of the man holding me down!" This is a company or companies having a policy that you are not comfortable with.


This is the corporate shadow government that first corrupted the people's and now controls all the things that give it much more power than the government and it's henchmen.

The corporations should be challenged and curbed at every step in every way in every opportunity you have.

Otherwise you end up like a guy who goes through life looking for a sign to tell him every last little thing to do.

You really are living in a fantasy world where you trust in the people and institutions and notions you should trust least in.




I am sure that your english teacher is equally as disappointed .. Just saying!


She laughed, she cried, she laughed a bit more, she cried a bit more, at least I think that was my English Teacher.

I don't know that half year of school was such a blur, lot's of signs there you would have liked it I am sure!




Well, your choice of topics such as verbiage is laughable!
What do they say has happened when a poster starts centering on a persons grammar and spelling?


Someone confused because they ran out of signs?




While your talking to my english teacher, be sure to ask her if she has been radiated.
I am really glad you pointed that out.. I wasn't aware that we didn't have wings. I was also unaware that we had equally as many threats 80 years ago.. Silly me, was under the impression that we had made many more enemies in the past 50 years. I am pleased to find out that, as far as air travel goes, we are equally as safe today, as we were 80 years ago. (from terrorist attacks)


Gee lets see 80 years ago they were having World War II, where according to the RAF your chances of surviving a plane flight over the English Coast were NOT TO GOOD. Used for charming and 'safe' things like dropping atomic bombs that blew up whole cities, you are just now getting wise to the idea that airplanes and violence sometimes go hand in hand.

Yet the truth is that you have a better chance of first becoming a Hollywood Movie Star and then winning the Lottery Jackpot than you do of being killed in a terrorist act. The numbers are in fact so astronomically low, that taking out insurance against them is basically just stupid.

Face it millions of illegal aliens and millions of pounds of narcotics and weapons flow over our pourous borders each year. If the Terrorists were really wanted to hit us, they have so many opportunities and ways it's not even funny.

Meanwhile who is destroying your basic way of life is the Government and a small group of international corporations and banks, who's signs and rules you love to follow.

Where they can make the war on terror most real is at the airport, because that's where the average person can be made to feel most vulnerable NEWS FLASH IT"S NOT THE TERRORISTS AT THE AIRPORTS FEELING YOUR GENITALS AND USING RADIATION TO STRIP SEARCH YOU, that's your government.

They are the one's terrorizing you, I don't really appreaciate you trying to terrorize me because you fell for it.

Just saying.




This says allot about you. Those stamps aren't taking away any of your rights.. Those stamps are there to add an extra safety measure to protect our kids against child abduction. What kind of dolt would refuse them?


The kind of responsible dolt who keeps a watchful eye on his own children when he takes them somewhere and makes sure they aren't abducted because it's his job to do so.

Hand stamp, laugh out loud, like that is going to ever be an alternative to a vigilant parent.

Nice of you to want to terrorize my kids too by painting rosie pictures like that for them, gee thanks.




Some people that run businesses have rules. These rules are there because the owner of these businesses want them. If I am not mistaken, it is their business, therefore it is their prerogative. You always have the option to boycott that business. Right?


I have the right to be a force of nature, I have the right to determine which battles I am going to fight, pick and chose, when and where, and for what purpose and to what end.




I do not believe in cushioning the world for us and our youth.. But, I do feel that there are necessary safety measures that are necessary or at minimum warranted.


That which does not kill us serves to make us stronger.

Common sense goes along way, no signs required.




That would be delusional
No brother, I really am happy. I don't suffer from the same delusion that you do. I see that our govt. is crooked as the day is long. I also see them taking away our freedoms.


I have to be honest I am pretty sure she is not coming back!




I might be the small minority here, but, I feel the extra security is a deterrent, that is working in some way shape or form.


Yeah from keeping you from doing anything about your crooked government taking away your freedoms.




I find it amazing that you had the nerve to pick apart my spelling and or grammar. People in glass houses should not throw rocks.


I agree, do you know anyone who has a glass home, you really should mention it to them! I can't think of anyone that does, but thanks for passing it along!



posted on Jan, 26 2011 @ 06:06 PM
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reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 

No matter how you slice it they don't have probable cause in most cases. I don't mind being screened (no radiation) and questioned to fly for public safety. I just don't think they have the right to grope and feel me or my daughters. They need to find an alternative to being radiated and groped, shouldn't be that hard with the tech we have.
Of course we need to sell all the scanners $$$ before we ban them.



posted on Jan, 26 2011 @ 06:14 PM
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Originally posted by mtnshredder
reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 

No matter how you slice it they don't have probable cause in most cases.


Agreed! They don't have probable cause. They don't need it, as there are no warrants being issued per the 4th Amendment. If you're paying someone to let you ride on their airplane, they are allowed to say, "For you to use our services, it's necessary that you consent to a search before you are allowed on."

It is then your choice to undergo the search or not fly.


I just don't think they have the right to grope and feel me or my daughters.


Then don't fly.



They need to find an alternative to being radiated and groped, shouldn't be that hard with the tech we have.


Dogs.


The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
edit on 1/26/2011 by Benevolent Heretic because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 26 2011 @ 06:26 PM
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reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 



Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
Dogs.



In the right context, maybe the only thing we agree upon.
edit on 26-1-2011 by loam because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 26 2011 @ 06:34 PM
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The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 

You're reading the ammendment wrong it say's ","AND" no Warrants issue" Take this out because it's N/A for the most part, at least at the airport. And you will see it reads......
"against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, but upon probable cause."
What doesn't make sense?



posted on Jan, 26 2011 @ 06:46 PM
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Originally posted by buster2010

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 


My problem is that I am not "ok" with having to forego my 4th Amendment right so that you can feel secure. Your feeling of security is YOUR problem, not mine. Why should i have to have my rights suspended?

Flying is a risky endeavor. If you choose to fly, you choose to assume the risks that come with flying. That is what "personal responsibility" means. It doesn't mean that you have a goon squad come and grope me to ensure that my "junk" isn't explosive.


You suspend your rights when you buy the ticket. Flying is a privilege not a right and you have to agree with the terms the airline sets forth. After all having the plane blow up mid air due to a bomb is not one of the normal risks that come with flying.


I have a right to free travel. My rights, regarding the 4th Amendment, are inalienable. They cannot be suspended. That is where you go wrong: relinquishing rights which no person has a right to ask you to relinquish.

The very premise which you view what freedom and liberty is is flawed.



posted on Jan, 26 2011 @ 06:46 PM
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I'm also guaranteed the freedom to move about my country without infringement of my rights.


You ARE free to do so. Move. Walk, run, drive, turn cartwheels to get where you want. But you do not have the right to FLY.


edit on 1/26/2011 by Benevolent Heretic because: (no reason given)


And just who made that particular discernment in the rights versus travel rules?????



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