Zeitgeist: Moving Forward - Officially Released Online

Originally posted by DaddyNowhere
Yay! Been looking forward to this latest installment, loved the first two. Plan to watch with the wife tonight... oh, but American Idol is on. What to do...

You can't be serious.....
second line.

Great film, I posted my thoughts about it in the "rant" forum.

The ideas proposed in the film are not communist or marxist. The film itself even mentions that. Yes, there will be a classless and maybe stateless society but nobody owns the means of production or the goods they produce.

As for those speaking about how science will determine need well it's very simple. Companies currently do it all the time. No, it's not 100% accurate. It's called the law of supply and demand dummy. A computer can quickly catch on a sort of algorithm to more or less predict how much will be demand and then a supply can be allocated. The longer the computer is running the better it can predict the demand.

As for what is a need. Well Zeitgeist starts at talking about what we need which is resources. I am sure it then mentions wants (which could be considered needs arguable) at some sort of center where people can access them for a period of time (or to own if it will be used considerably).

I believe that the way old communities are run (even some modern communities run in such a manner) where everyone in a community shares all the resources. I saw in a documentary TV series called "Human Planet" that places all over the world (Greenland and some tropical places) for example hunt from the sea large whales and such and feed their whole community for weeks and months. So couldn't the same work with all physical goods? I really don't need my camera all the time? Why not have it accessible in case I need it in my community, but not being wasted gathering dust in my room.

Although tidbits of the latest Zeitgeist can be argued upon, I think the real issue would be shedding capitalism. Essentially would mean that the vast majority of people would have to relinquish money as the God it has become. We have been conditioned from birth to accept its universal value, how can we just give it up?

How about the people in power? TPTB won't easily accept this, most likely oppose it with force. Who the hell wants to give up their "godly status" as a (mi/bi)llionaire?

The problem is our society wasn't made for change. Everything was created to be force fed to us and imposed with an iron will. As an easier example, couldn't our education system be much more efficient/effective? I am sure a psychologist could figure out a better way to nurture our children. But our education system isn't about the best way, its about the best way to get out working class citizens.

I have always wanted to start my own business as a means to an end, and lately I have been feeling like a hypocrite. One day I will escape our society because I believe I am not meant to live in such a society where people are suppressed on so many different levels.

With Love.

Originally posted by christina-66
reply to post by R33V3R

 

HELP!!!! Someone call the thought police....quick.

Hmm i give you directions to find the answers you seek, and you need the police to tell you what to think?
How about being your OWN authority.
Did you really want to know the answers to your questions? or are you simply trolling with one liner replies?

reply to post by mayabong


Their idea on how we should conform and live kind of sounds like a sugar coated way to
say comunism would bring us happiness

reply to post by mc_squared


I have noticed that Zeitgeist has been acknowledged by people that do not normally watch documentaries. Zeitgeist seems to have broken through some barriers, and the makers of the film should be applauded.

I finally sat down and watched all three movies one each night this week...
I loved them really....although, I don't believe we will ever be able to produce the kind of society that is envisioned perfectly....there will always be the haves and have nots......
but, the city they showed does resemble the one in my dreams, alot!
got one question though, do we really have the technology to build a house the way they showed??
if so that is some awesome technology!!!

Yes we do, it's just that it is VERY expensive, and that's the problem they say a moneyless society will fix.

reply to post by YourMomLied


It is a terrible documentary.
The ideas are interesting and that's why it is watchable, but by documentary standards it's awful.
The first one was decent, the second one wasn't as good, this one was downright weak.

I have seen documentaries that are mind blowing and docs that I'd watch over most any other genre movies.

reply to post by R33V3R



My response was a sarcastic response to your reply to me. Specifically to your answer to resolving the issue of people who don't like people's wishes to live alone witha way of life of their choosing. Your response was that we would find out the reason for them not wanting to be with people....and by implication to have them repaired and reconditioned. The thought police would have to be a part of this utopian world.

Re one line responses, I would refer you to the various extensive posts I have contributed to this thread which you do not appear to have read.

Now just because that documentary claims what they propose is not a form of communism doesn't mean that's true. Communism or 'communalism' is exactly what its proposing. No private ownership, shared resources, recognition of one another as equals etc. That's all communist doctrine.....communism always did look great on paper. An ideal world.....but the flawed human condition has been proven to stymie the utopian process. People are not equal, they are not all the same, and nor do they ALL want the same. One person's meat is another person's poison.

I reiterate - what is being proposed is total global control coming from the bottom up - as opposed to top, down changes. It amounts to the same loss of autonomy for the individual.

I am pro localisation. I am for losing communities the size of cities. Cities were created for the industrial revolution and that has long past. Cities are old hat. We should be aiming for smaller communities that take advantage of modern technology for the autonomous supply of its power and food as much as is possible given the geography of the location.

We don't need to stick with the current cash based economy....these iou's are only accepted because we agree to accept them in lieu of what they represent. We can refuse to recognise these state sanctioned iou's and develop our own alternative currencies for ourselves. The whole system only exists purely to simplify barter - we should remember that.

To be honest I had grown out of the kind of thinking portrayed in this vid by the time I was 16....and I did have this kind of thinking when I was 16. Reality has revealed itself to me since then.

reply to post by christina-66


Yes, the system described in Zeitgeist is not perfect and can be comparable to communism.

Our system is based on maximizing consumerism, essentially consumerism must continue or increase in order for the economy to grow. The concept discussed in Zeitgeist is to make our system based on maximizing efficiency, creating a true economy.

Imagine if the products created were created to last longer and technology was released in much longer cycles with much larger jumps in the technology between cycles. In our current economy, this would cripple it, destroy consumerism and millions of jobs would be lost.

Now assuming we are in a resource based economy this would be massively beneficial. Since blue collar work would be largely diminished more work can be focused on researching and bettering society which would largely increase the gaps between technology cycle and allow us to take a huge leap.

This resource based economy would benefit all forms of social institutions. I could see a huge leap in the institutions of education, in order to create more researchers and intellectuals, and a huge leap in our political system to benefit the world.

Of course with less work being required in general, since there is more resource efficiency, it gives us more time to relax instead of slaving and worrying about our futures.

Zeitgeist never claims that this solution is perfect. It claims that it is better than the current system and it is. We need a serious think tank of intellectuals to further develop the idea in order to make it workable.

Here is a video where Peter Joseph rips apart some guy who critiques Zeitgeist (he is commiting the same fallacies some of the people on this forum are commiting )

Zeitgeist is a lie, spirit of the age, more like Spirit of the Antichrist

reply to post by ThisIsMyName


Nope its not perfect - not even close.

Zeitgeist is a 'grass roots' movement technique which is assisting the ultimate fascilitation of one world government. It's still one world government.....except that those of you who advocate zeitgeist's conclusion as being the way forward are going to be really happy about it. We need more localism not even more centralisation.

This is a grand plan with different marketing techniques. Zeitgeist is just another technique.

A well thought out, scientific based argument based on todays problems. Everyone should read and support this!

I hope this wasn't already posted.
The problem with the Venus project -
Although I have personally enjoyed the zeitgeist movies on some level -
I find this an important addition to watching them - and any consideration of
preparing the world for a Venus project.

www.youtube.com.../u/5/qn-SKxqNc1o

I don't like how "communist" and "Marxist" have become dirty words. I grew up in the Cold War, so I remember when this happened, but every time I hear someone immediately trashing Marxism I know they and their loved ones caught the Cold War Brain Virus. Part of not just accepting what you're fed is not allowing yourself to be manipulated through certain terms. "Democracy", "freedom", "terrorism", etc... The fact is, Marx was a genius who unlocked certain keys to economics, human behavior, history, etc. Maybe humanity's greatest thinker. This doesn't mean he was right about everything. But he was right about a lot. Read the manifesto. Read Capital, the Grundrisse, before you jump on a bandwagon.

I'm not saying that communism is the answer, but this cadre capitalism, this gangsterism we're living under now certainly isnt.

reply to post by blupblup
Alex Jones does not like competition he does this to certain people that he feels threatened by.It's why I stopped listening to him.

Enjoyed this installment I love how Peter Joseph skewered the critics and the people who shriek about Marxism and Communism every time this documentary is mentioned.I think we are several generations away from an Open Resource Economy but the evolution of society has begun in earnest.The Revolution in the Mid-East has proven that our current system is unsustainable.

This is a great documentary and in my opinion by far peter josephs best, some people will try and call it communistic or utopian but that is incredibly ill judged and in my opinion illogical and reactionary, others of which im sure there are plenty on ats will describe it as a conspiracy by the elite to create a one world government which just goes to indicate the systemic and wide spread paranoia many people suffer from, especially on a site such as this or most laughably of all some will try and paint a picture of some hellish cybernetic world taken straight out of an apocalyptic hollywood movie or science fiction book all proov nothing but the level of indoctrination and illogical short sightedness our current system perpetuates onto otherwise intelligent people who seem incapable of understanding anything outside of there current cultural/economic paradigm . Advocating a movement that wants to create a global society in which its main aim is to eventually arrive at a resource based economy which will benefit the many instead of the few can only be applauded. The system we live in today is incredibly destructive to almost every facit of our existance from our physical and mental wellbeing to the entire world around us and its very unfortunate that more people arent aware of its obvious flaws and illogical nature. A world in which science and logic are used solely to better ALL mankind and protect the world around us is a far better and more logical paradigm than our current system which rewards almost nothing but greed and self interest and cripples our social and intellectual evolution without any regard for the damage it is doing to us all and our environment. Creating a resource based economy should be the aim of every man, woman and child on this planet for it is the only logical alternative to the backward and destructive system in which we live today. Id be more than interested in hearing anyones arguments against this documentary and what fresco, joseph and co advocate in general as i want as rounded a view as possible on what is surely an incredibly important topic,however id just ask that you take a step back first and ask yourselves if your argument is one based on logic or if it is unbalanced, unsubstansiated reactionary and created out of our natural indoctrination into a system in which we all live and some have flourished. To those who believe this to be the way forward, all we can do is try and spread this idea to as many people and hope that the majority realises a RBE is the only way mankind can begin to realise its true potential

ps just watched alex jones' interview with peter joseph and was blown away by how inbecilic and completely infantile jones behaved through out I truly cannot believe that a reasonable person (whether or not you agree with what peter joseph advocates) can take him seriously after such behaviour, because that is in no way serious or intelligent debate......

reply to post by fordrew


That's the problem.
I build, maintain & modify machines for a living, i design parts of the highest quality, often with a lot of overkill and i keep the design as simple as possible, so it can easily be replicated.
Everything should be modular, interchangeable. You build a general purpose, modular factory with lots of robots, you make cars. When everyone has a car, you convert the factory to make washing machines, when everyone has one, you convert it to make fridges etc. After 40 years or so, some of the cars will begin to break down, so you convert the factory to make cars again.
The recycling plant & foundry should also be near the factory, so the materials are recycled quickly & efficiently.
Phillips are notorious for having built-in 'suicide' circuits in their appliances, which short circuit after so many hours of use. This is complete madness, there is no need for it. Even the chips that run the cars could be re-programmed to run the washing machines.This would create many new jobs in itself.
A customer of mine bought a complete installation for a production line, via the internet, without seeing the plans or asking the right questions. It was more of a construction company than engineering, when i saw the prototype i didn't know whether to laugh or cry, it was useless.
I predicted that it would break down in less than a month & would be unuseable within a year. I was 100% spot on. Now they have learned to take me seriously, but they really don't like to hear the bad news, they will actually avoid me because i arrive to tell them how much money has gone down the drain.
It's all about communication, if one of these idiots ever thought to ask an engineer's opinion before buying useless crap, it would actually save the industry millions & people would keep their jobs.
But that's immaterial,since the whole 'economy' has to go.
Zeitgeist is the only way forward, as i see it.