It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.


Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.


Queen Elizabeth I "Secrets Of The Virgin Queen" Was "She" a "He"?

page: 1
<<   2 >>

log in


posted on Jan, 25 2011 @ 11:05 PM
I just watched a program on the National Geographic Channel titled "Secrets Of The Virgin Queen". I almost wished I hadn't watched it because now it has my mind all messed up. The one that has me reeling the most is the thought that Queen Elizabeth I was really a "He" rather than a "She". Thus why she never married.

The legend is that Princess Elizabeth had gotten very sick and died at Overcourt House in Bisley. The king was suppose to be coming for a visit and whoever was watching her decided to get a replacement. Would you want to tell King Henry VIII his daughter is now dead? It might be off with your head if you did under his reign. The closest child they could come up with was a boy that had the same color of hair and skin tone. The Bisley boy. Not sure who he was but that wasn't his name. And since King Henry VIII didn't come to visit that often he didn't notice the switch.

They brought up points that the Queen wore high neck collars (to hide the adams apple), she had long fingers, wore heavy white makeup (I always thought it was to hide the small pox scars), never married, wouldn't let doctors examine her, etc.

This page probably explains it better than anything I have found. And it even goes into Bram Stoker's "Famous Imposters" and why he thinks that Queen Elizabeth I was really a "He".

Another theory the show brought up was that she may have been a hermaphidite. And they use her Tilbury speech quote "I know I have the body of a weak and feeble woman, but I have the heart and stomach of a king" as an admission of sorts. I come closer to thinking that she was a hermaphidite than she was switched for a boy. I think the show is getting ready to come back on if anyone wants to watch it. It is on National Geographic right now.
edit on 25-1-2011 by SavannahJane because: (no reason given)

posted on Jan, 25 2011 @ 11:27 PM
Interesting topic, Savannah. You have a knack for Queen Elizabeth history & that is quite the interesting story. I am setting my DVR to record it. Here's some info I already know on the subject from brief research:

Bram Stoker based his best known story, of Count Dracula, on the legend of a real prince of Transylvania who reputedly drank the blood of his victims - an example of how fact can be stranger than fiction. For his book "Famous Imposters", Stoker was told by the famous actor, Sir Henry Irving, the first reported beginnings of the story that the rest of England was to hear of as "The Bisley Boy".

Some suspicious facts about the 'Queen' first:

----Elizabeth’s refusal to marry
----Rumours that Elizabeth could not bear children – In April 1559, when Elizabeth was only 25, the Count de Feria wrote: “If my spies do not lie, which I believe they do not, for a certain reason which they have recently given me, I understand that she [Elizabeth] will not bear children.”
----A significant change in literary style between the letters Elizabeth wrote
----She wore high collars, possibly to avoid 'her' adam's apple.
----It is known that no doctors were allowed to examine her body before or after her death:
----She grew bald in middle age and used wigs:
----If one studies the portraits of her, she wears 'over-the-top' dresses, jewels and masses of make-up. In fact, your everyday drag queen style, beloved by many TVs in the eye of the public (read any programme that has Danny La Rue and they can't wait to tell you that this or that dress cost £3000 or £5000 each and has twenty yards of this and that).
----During her reign very little is made of her ladies-in-waiting but she seems to have a large company of seamen-or pi­rates as the Spanish called them.
----Her one-time governess became her nurse and was her closest attendant.

This is me paraphrasing directly from Bram Stoker's book on the subject below.

In London the pestilence of plague was raging, and the twelve-year-old daughter of Anne Boleyn, the Princess Elizabeth, was sent to the Manor of Bisley to escape this cursed blight but unfortunately she succumbed to a fatal illness.

At this very time, the King - Henry VIII - felt a need to see his younger daughter, after ignoring her for years. This was a disaster, as the King was short of temper and to break such grave news to him was a task which no-one was prepared to undertake - a lengthy sojourn in the Tower of London was the likeliest reward to the bearer of such tidings.

The governess of the late Princess was fearful and in despair hid the body and rushed to the nearby village of Bisley to find a young girl to take the place of the late Princess. It was felt the substitution might succeed as the King had only seen his daughter on two known occa­sions, the last being when she was about three years old. It was soon obvious that no suitable girl could be found to take the Princess's place.

So it was decided to take an even greater risk. It was quite common practice in those days for young children to be brought up in households other than their parents', often the bastards of Kings were accorded new households perhaps to become Kings themselves, as William the Conqueror did. There was a youth, believed to be a bastard son of Henry VIII. A boy who had been a fellow pupil, friend and playmate of the Princess - Neville; said to be the son of Henry and Elizabeth Blunt, who later became the Duke of Richmond and Somerset. He seemed the perfect answer, having some of the King's features and colouring, notably the red hair to assist in the deception.

In the few days before the King's visit, the boy was dressed and taught the correct manners of a royal princess; the image of a young lady ready to greet a King and father. He was a King to reckon with; one who was shrewd, and not easily fooled.

If this is true, one can well imagine the immense pressure which existed in that manor house. Yet it is recorded that the King was indeed pleased to find his daughter well versed in Latin, French and Spanish; was a comely lass and "a wise head on young shoulders".

In Bisley Manor, the sigh of relief was surely the loudest ever gusted. But the actions of the governess had not passed unnoticed by the simple village souls and so began the record in the Boy May Queen, to continue, I believe, up to the late nineteen-fifties. I have no idea if this still happens as we so seldom see the Maypole on the village green, or the dance with coloured ribbons weaving their own special magic. Today the ‘May Dance' of father cleaning his car works a different magic - it brings rain!

But the story is by no means over. The boy's masquerade was only just beginning and no one realised that this simple deception would extend to the highest seat in the land, the Throne of England. That in fact this slip of a lad would one day be Queen.
edit on 25-1-2011 by TheLegend because: (no reason given)

posted on Jan, 25 2011 @ 11:35 PM
I don't believe a word.

Would that make Liz gay since her lifelong love was Robert Dudley?

posted on Jan, 25 2011 @ 11:43 PM
All excellent points made by Bram Stoker & all the facts mentioned.

I remember reading in history books and wondering "Why is Queen Elizabeth so damn odd!?" & why her behavior changed quite radically.

This gives light on a scandalous theory, one that could change the history books (but I doubt will, historians & archaeologists are renowned for cropping information to fit their paradigms, regardless of the truth or other possibilities, unfortunately).

posted on Jan, 25 2011 @ 11:51 PM
reply to post by TheLegend

Awesome information. Thank you so much. The other theory they were going on was "testicular feminization". I can't access the article but here is the link with a small paragraph.

The phenotypical characteristics of the testicular feminization syndrome are strikingly similar to descriptions of Elizabeth's appearance, personality, behaviour, and particularly, to those physical defects which her contemporaries believed made her sterile and unwilling to marry.

I'm more apt to lean this way rather than the switched theory.

posted on Jan, 25 2011 @ 11:52 PM
All Elizabethan maniacs should read this book. It is fabulous!

posted on Jan, 25 2011 @ 11:59 PM
reply to post by berkeleygal

They brought up Robert Dudley on the show as well. And the story of Arthur Dudley who stated he was the bastard child of Queen Elizabeth and Robert. If true it certainly would quash all theories on if she was a woman or not.

Thanks for link. I will read it!!!!

edit on 25-1-2011 by SavannahJane because: (no reason given)

posted on Jan, 26 2011 @ 12:06 AM
reply to post by MasonicFantom

Agreed. Her behavior was odd on some things. King Henry VIII was so up on having a boy to the heir and yet he had Elizabeth which in my opinion turned out to be one of Englands best. He would have been very proud of her.

posted on Jan, 26 2011 @ 12:09 AM
An interesting myth, but a myth none the less.

Elizabeth never married because to do so would mean having to give up power.

The make up she wore was the style of the the time and nothing can be inferred by it, especially any claims she was a 16th century drag artist. I also am a bit dubious about claims she was never examined by Doctors, before or after her death. It is the first time I've ever heard this claim and I am a bit of an english history buff.

EDIT: I'd also add that I remember covering her makeup and hairstyles in History at school and because they sued rather poisonous substances, such as mercury and arsenic, it would explain hair loss, funny appearance etc.

Also, I doubt she was a real "Virgin", but that was a title given because she never married. I bet she got laid all the time.
edit on 26/1/11 by stumason because: (no reason given)

posted on Jan, 26 2011 @ 12:13 AM
reply to post by SavannahJane

Mmmm pseudohermaphroditism is a possibility.

According to Tracy Borman, Elizabeth delighted in wearing low necklines, even into old age. If she was trying to hide a lack of breasts then this was not the way to do it!

Some records say she wasn't bald, but silver haired.

If it were a boy, it would also be difficult to hide the onsets of puberty.

Imo, either theory has some basis in fact (or the closest to a 'fact' we can get--based off literary people). It is impossible to know one way or the other however until time travel is more practical.

edit on 26-1-2011 by MasonicFantom because: (no reason given)

posted on Jan, 26 2011 @ 12:14 AM
reply to post by stumason

I believe, according to Stoker, she was very picky about her doctors who got to see her body.

"Elizabeth’s refusal to see other doctors – Stoker cites the occasion when Elizabeth was ill during her house arrest at Woodstock. Apparently, Elizabeth’s usual physicians were not available and Elizabeth refused to see anyone else."

Very interesting site (which I cited)

posted on Jan, 26 2011 @ 12:18 AM
reply to post by MasonicFantom

Now, I will take the author of Dracula's account with a pinch of salt, but imagine if you were under House arrest because your sister was a Catholic nutcase. If you felt a bit peaky and your trusted doctors weren't around, would you let anyone else have a look? I wouldn't, as Mary may have had a plot affot to get rid of this challenge to her throne.

posted on Jan, 26 2011 @ 12:19 AM
I guess that would explain why she always busted out with her Liza Minnelli impersonations at State Dinners.

posted on Jan, 26 2011 @ 12:20 AM

Originally posted by MasonicFantom
Imo, either theory has some basis in fact (or the closest to a 'fact' we can get--based off literary people). It is impossible to know one way or the other however until time travel is more practical.

edit on 26-1-2011 by MasonicFantom because: (no reason given)

It's not impossible to find out at all. She is buried at Westminster Abbey.

If you can get the right paperwork (hahahaha...that won't be easy...) you could examine the body.

posted on Jan, 26 2011 @ 12:26 AM
reply to post by stumason

Be careful, knowing SavannahJane, Queen Elizabeth's body at Westminster may suspiciously go missing soon!

edit on 26-1-2011 by TheLegend because: (no reason given)

posted on Jan, 26 2011 @ 06:30 AM
Mmmm I have to admit shim was a little bit weird, then again all royalty have been. All that inbreeding I think. Imagine what the real royal family tree looks like
and besides think about any of the royal family look and act like females?

I'm going with Bram Stoker on this one.

posted on Jan, 26 2011 @ 06:35 AM
Too funny for words.

posted on Jan, 26 2011 @ 06:35 AM
Double post/excuse me
edit on 26-1-2011 by chocise because: Double post

posted on Jan, 26 2011 @ 07:11 AM
reply to post by SavannahJane

I don't believe it, frankly - and I think such a theory could only be put forward by men who have a huge difficulty in accepting that a woman could be an effective leader.
My theory as to why she never married is two-fold.
First, the model of marriage the poor girl saw, was a terrible one, and she would have seen from her youth, that marriage was dangerous for a woman: second, she would have had to share power with whoever she married.
Why would she ever want to do that?

posted on Jan, 26 2011 @ 07:55 AM
And for those who are interested in the mind boggling of who’s doing what with who here is the Royal Family Tree

Oh and pay attention to the somewhat pretty boys. Compare Elizabeth I with her brother Edward VI now who’s the girly one?
Crikey that is one crazy mixed up family. Its boggling trying to figure out what country actually owns the crown of England.

Lol after all that I think I'm related to Elizabeth Bowes Lyon. i'll look into that a little bit more I think

top topics

<<   2 >>

log in