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11-year-old Pennsylvanian is youngest person in world to face life without parole

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posted on Jan, 26 2011 @ 05:38 AM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 




posted on Jan, 26 2011 @ 07:33 AM
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reply to post by DimensionalDetective
 


Tough indeed. I'd agree treatment and an attempt to find out WTF happened is in order. But I also have to say that if at 11 the kid can take 2 lives, or 1 and 1/2 whatever, I would feel rather uncomfortable if that kid could go into the harsh prison system, and eventually get out.

why do I feel this way? Watch any episode from any season of 'The first 48'. It's almost exclusively ex cons and recent parolees murdering people after they served their time, for murder.

It's a tough call, at 11 maybe there is still a chance to 'fix' the kid, his brain is still developing and going from myself at 11, isn't really in what we know to be reality.



posted on Jan, 26 2011 @ 07:40 AM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Jan, 26 2011 @ 07:50 AM
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Hey, you don't need to tell me that! I agree with your analysis... I take it we are agreed that it was an Allied effort, and that no one country can claim the credit?
Vicky



posted on Jan, 26 2011 @ 08:13 AM
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Originally posted by infolurker
reply to post by DimensionalDetective
 


Some people are just sick... even at a young age. Guns aren't needed. See: Robert Thompson and Jon Venables

karisable.com...


On Feb. 12, 1993, in Liverpool, England, Robert Thompson and Jon Venables murdered 2 year old James Bulger after kidnapping the toddler from a butcher's shop in a shopping center with his mother, Denise who was momentarily distracted as she conducted business.

Two ten year old boys skipping school took the young child on a 2½ mile walk culminating at the railroad tracks. At a canal, on the way, he sustained head and face injuries from being dropped to the ground.

They were seen by at least 38 people, some noticed head injuries on the little boy. It was reported that he seemed upset and distressed, yet other's reported he was also seen laughing happily.

Once they reached the tracks, blue paint was thrown in James's face, they kicked him, battered him with bricks, stones, and a 22 lb iron bar; shoved batteries in his mouth; and sexually assaulted him before covering his lifeless body with bricks and stones on train tracks. A train severed his body. The boys went home afterwards to watch cartoons.

Several days later, James's mangled body in two pieces was discovered on a rail embankment. At the place his body was found, James was honored with floral tributes, including one from Thompson.



I was going to mention this case too. They were sent to a secure unit for 8 years and then they were released on parole and granted life-long anonymity. There had been a huge campaign to stop it, but it was useless. Then last year, Jon Venables went back to jail for hoarding child pornography. Mrs. Fergus (James Bulger's mother) said that if Venables had been kept locked up until he was 25, like the original sentence required, then none of it would have happened.

I wonder if this 11 year old child is really going to be given a life sentence. The crime was horrible, but he should be getting help, maybe put in a secure unit with psychiatric treatment.

It's really sad to see such a young person committing a horrible crime and even sadder to see that he won't be given the help he needs.



posted on Jan, 26 2011 @ 08:26 AM
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Originally posted by Hazz-14
Obviously theres something going on in this kids head.
I really don't think jail is the answer, I think the right people need to help this kid out.



People are too caught up in their emotions for anything rational like that. Maybe in a couple hundred thousand years when we evolve a little bit more.



posted on Jan, 26 2011 @ 08:29 AM
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I know this will not be taken lightly, but I do think that he should serve a life sentence, if you wish to do the crime....blah blah blah. But he should be in a children detention center until he is at least 18, otherwise he will get passed around like a joint.



posted on Jan, 26 2011 @ 08:34 AM
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reply to post by Vicky32
 


Indeed we are agreed, I replied to your post but wasn't trying to bat you with that information, that was for the folks who never learned it.

They did it together, no single country won that war, without the cooperation of all parties, it would have ended much differently.

anyways, I'm still on the fence, I think straight up jail at the kids age isn't the answer, but I also don't think someone cold enough to murder a pregnant woman deserves another chance, because it might be me next time, or you. 11 is a tough age, a little older I'd say lock him up for life, but 11, there's still a chance to reach that kid.

but once you pull the trigger, you can't get that bullet back.
edit on 26-1-2011 by phishybongwaters because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 26 2011 @ 08:40 AM
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Obviously an 11 year old knows the basic difference between right and wrong, but at that age can they really appreciate the full extent of their actions? Surely a indeterminate sentence would be more appropriate. The difference in emotional maturity of an 11 year old vs an adult of say a 26 years old is huge, and if there's a chance that whatever the problems the kid may have can be treated then they should do so.

Also, why on earth do Pennsylvania bother making a distinction between adolescents and adults in the first place if they just automatically try them as adults?




Originally posted by Casandra

I was going to mention this case too. They were sent to a secure unit for 8 years and then they were released on parole and granted life-long anonymity. There had been a huge campaign to stop it, but it was useless. Then last year, Jon Venables went back to jail for hoarding child pornography. Mrs. Fergus (James Bulger's mother) said that if Venables had been kept locked up until he was 25, like the original sentence required, then none of it would have happened.

I wonder if this 11 year old child is really going to be given a life sentence. The crime was horrible, but he should be getting help, maybe put in a secure unit with psychiatric treatment.

It's really sad to see such a young person committing a horrible crime and even sadder to see that he won't be given the help he needs.


There's a chance it might not have happened if he'd been released when he was supposed to. But thats just one of the reasons I think the UK justice system is seen as far too lenient. Everyone seems to be let out early.. and the the life sentence is an absolute joke.
Personally though I think its entirely possible that when he was released he was mentally sound. But he obviously wasnt monitored properly and didnt receive appropriate aftercare. Whatever reasons caused him to murder and abuse that little boy were bad enough, but being put back into a society where you know you'd be killed within 5 minutes if people knew who you really were must be disturbing in itself.



posted on Jan, 26 2011 @ 08:45 AM
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First of all, the main thing to be pointed out is that he COULD get it. He won't-trust me.

under PA law, a person over the age of 10 can be adjudicated in the court system.

Two counts of Pre-mediated murder-- at age 11. Guess what.....

Now, my whole issue with this case is what do we do as a society to these children that murder/ with intent and planning etc. They display a propencity to be able to kill (plan and carry out etc).

The only true deterent and or fix to murders is to Kill Them. It is the only way you can ensure they do not go on to kill again. "It's in their blood".. arguement.

But anon72, how could you.... how can you say we should kill a murder etc? Again I say. The only way to ensure they don't murder again.... is to terminate their contract with society.

And I am not talking about putting them in Jail. What about those people/prisoners in there? They have the right to be free of murders as their lives are now at risk. I say even a greater risk as they are now locked inside with them.

This whole argument reminds me of the story about the Snake and the Old Man. An old man saw a snake on the ground in the snow.... he picked it up, took it to his house and care for him. Bring the snake back to full health. One day, the old man goes to check on the snake and the snake attacks and injects poison into the old mans veins.

As the old man lays on the floor dying he asks the snake... Why did you do that to me after I did all of that for you? The snake says.... Cause Im a snake.
edit on 1/26/2011 by anon72 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 26 2011 @ 08:46 AM
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Originally posted by rsronce9
i think 1. why were their guns out where he could reach them and get ahold of them.. and 2. he should be shot bc hes old enough to know what he did was wrong. its no different than if a 25 year old walked in a shot her. i personally dont think age matters on this bc he knew was he was doing


even if he didn't have a gun in the house the kid could have just gotten a knife and stabbed her to death, unless you want to ban knivies to?



posted on Jan, 26 2011 @ 09:14 AM
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reply to post by boondock-saint
yeah and so can African child soldiers,Chechen kids and etc etc etc,but not without adult indoctrination/handling generally.Is a kid really responsible for the potential consequences of his actions when given say an AK47 by a Rwandan genocide squad leader,a kid who in all probability has seen his own family butchered by a similar genocide squad and has been basically brainwashed into thinking that people like his family must die?

I can't agree with any society where adults "light the blue touchpaper" and leave the innocents to take the consequences.



posted on Jan, 26 2011 @ 10:56 AM
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Originally posted by bluemirage5
I've probably read most of the articles on this case and like most others here, sad sad sad.

The boy was 11. probably as close to a father an only child and son could possibly get then to have to share it all with a complete stranger with a family of her own was probably tough enough and not without it's own problems then to find out you will no longer be the light of the father knowing another son is about to come in to the world and rip daddy's attention away from daddy's no:1......you can't help not know how this kid must have felt and his father thought "she'll be right mate" attitude. The picture must had been on the wall. You can't ignore these feelings in a child whether he spoke of them or not.

An 11 year old in a grown man's jail; that won't happen until he's legal age. He probably will go to a psychiatrict institution until he's old enough to meet the criteria of a man's prison or put in solitary confinement until he's 18.

As for the father and the family of the victim, they each have websites that I jumped on to to find out more about this story. The father was told time and time again to take off photos of his son playing with the woman and her 2 daughters. He removed a photo as requested but only replaced it by another photo of woman and the 3 kids. The father appears to be in denial of his son's crime and he's not helping himself or his son by throwing more oil on the fire towards his dead wife's family. I can understand the father wants to help his only child but he's not going the right way about it.

By the son showing no remorse tells me either he's innocent or really hated his step parent and sisters. Evidence seems to point to this child.

As for the father...he should be charged with manslaughter by allowing his son to have 5 guns (not 1) in his bedroom including ammunition and because it was used in a criminal case of murder. No 11 year old can be responsible to have within reach such lethal toys in the first place and the guns should had been locked up in the first place. The father was irresponsible and should be held accountable as his son. It's obvious this kid needs help and I hope the appropriate help is given to this kid while he's in jail or he will no doubt and it's more likely he'll reoffend again once he's out.


Holy crap this idiot let an 11yo have five weapons and ammo in his room?? And this was after the kid made threats to shoot the woman too. Yeah the father should be charged for something thats for dam sure. Also what was the woman thinking too this kid hated her and he has loaded weapons in his room?? This is one dysfunctional family........or was.



posted on Jan, 26 2011 @ 10:57 AM
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Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by HoldTheBeans
 


It drives me mad.
There shouldn't even be a saying "tried as an adult" if you are a kid, why should you be tried as an adult YOU AREN'T AN ADULT!


I guess they consider the crime he did an "adult" crime. After all its not like he stole a candy bar.



posted on Jan, 26 2011 @ 11:28 AM
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A crime is a crime regardless of age. He should be charged with 2 counts of murder, the fiancee, and the unborn child. Further, this quote within the article:



violate international law


How could any Human rights organization claim a breach of international law, when this crime occurred right here domestically? This 11 year old being born here, under the 14th Amendment grants him US citizenship, ( provided the father is foreign ), so he would be held accountable to US law.

This kid obviously has issues, do I think life should be administered?...On the fence, does seem a bit harsh, keeping in mind, that the fellow prisoners of the state would probably have their way with him before they off'd him.
A good game of ass pirates sounds like a priority in this kids future!



posted on Jan, 26 2011 @ 11:40 AM
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Thing is LIFE is harsh for him. You gotta consider the stresses he could of been under. See when you start having relations with a new potential spouse and have children already from last relationship you gotta be extra sensitive to the previous child or children. As they do tend to automatically feel like the world is against them as they see the parent find happiness in a new spouse who is not the childs original parent. The parent can almost overlook their previous childs feelings due to them being happy again (which is natural not many seek to be alone) From what I see the child has experienced his fathers love of another woman and the child built up so much aggression and didnt know how to make his dad understand. He may not of fit in due to him seeing daddy all happy about his new born -new lady -new life (and the kid felt lost). I see the child going thru mental strain anger envy seperation not belongiing anymore and he wanted to eliminate what he felt was causing this. He seen the new lady and child as a source and not as a new begginning for he as well and took it into his own hands. I dont condone his actions at all but I think there is a timer for youth as to when their sins begin to count against them. He might of been below the timer not saying he is innocent but his mind waas trying to adapt to a situation that most kids just deal with by being rebellious he just went there. SO in pa there is Juvi life which is to hold a youth till 21. Thats ten years + which is a lot of time, its more then he has been free. He will need mental help if he was to get this because the system will turn him into a more aggressive being. And if he gets out and doesnt see the light of what wrong he has done he will no doubt do something to land him back in prison as an adult. I just dont think you can through kids lives away like this
edit on 1/26/11 by Ophiuchus 13 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 26 2011 @ 11:51 AM
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reply to post by HoldTheBeans
 





I guess they consider the crime he did an "adult" crime. After all its not like he stole a candy bar.


It says tried as an adult, not adult crime. That is the absurdity. If he is an adult, he should be able to have sex with adults, go fight a war, enter contracts and vote along with being tried as an adult.

He should be tried as a minor, because he clearly is a minor.
edit on 26/1/11 by Maslo because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 26 2011 @ 11:55 AM
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reply to post by boondock-saint
 

Shoe shine mister, please shoe shine for you
cheap cheap

BOOM !!!!


I have to agree.
If this was a little 11 year old Muslim (Vietnamese, Chinese) boy people would be ready to hang him.
Sad thing this all the way around.


peace



posted on Jan, 26 2011 @ 12:07 PM
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I question the fact that perhaps he was abused, also how did an 11 year old get a gun? Life in prison would not be the answer for this youth. He definitely needs to be confined for his own protection as well as others. Until he gets counseling and the investigation continues into what might have tiggered him to do this a life sentence at this time is very harsh for an 11 year old.



posted on Jan, 26 2011 @ 12:35 PM
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A grown adult with the mental age of al 11 year old who commits an 'adult' crime would be, HERE WITH YOU LOT, punished with the prescribed sentence and nary a one of you would care.

It's not his mental age being considered it's his physical age.

How many child-like adults have been sentenced to death?

Are they any more capable of knowing any better than this kid?

Perhaps you should stop seeing the child and see the crime.

Sometimes, a kid can be a ruthless killer, and that is a fact. Especially in this day and age.

Do I agree with this? No. But the hypocrisy is sickening...




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