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11-year-old Pennsylvanian is youngest person in world to face life without parole

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posted on Jan, 26 2011 @ 12:26 AM
reply to post by Portugoal

It seems to me he showed signs of a sociopath....

Profile of a Spciopath

I agree with other posts who said this kid needed help. However, I also believe he deserves the sentence. By that age kids know the difference between right and wrong. It sends a message to today's youth that there are consequences for your behavior and you will be held accountable for your actions. We need to enforce the laws to every one equally regardless of race, sex, age, religion or creed.

To refer to him as a child is to imply he has innocence. To commit a crime, as he is accused of, you no longer have what we, as a society, see as innocence. Some one of innocence wouldn't plot out killing another person (Allegedly.... I don't think there has been a verdict either way ).

posted on Jan, 26 2011 @ 12:27 AM
11 year olds don't shoot pregnant step moms for no reason but what ever the reason it don't justify what he did. The real question is he damaged beyond repair? Chances are probobly yes.

Nathaniel Abraham was 11 years old when he shot and killed a stranger. He was given a second chance and convicted of 2nd degree murder. He was released at age 21. He's been arested over and over again since his release. This is a case in Michigan by the way.

As unfair as it sounds I don't think 11 year olds that commit such crimes should be released. I believe there is a slim to none chance of rehabilitation.

edit on 26-1-2011 by wantsome because: (no reason given)

posted on Jan, 26 2011 @ 12:39 AM
Well this is a tough one. If they let the kid off easy, like a previous OP said, that would be saying its okay for 11 year olds to kill. Now life in prison? I think thats going too far. There is obviously something wrong this kid and he needs psych help and evaluation first.

posted on Jan, 26 2011 @ 12:39 AM
I'm fine with him being given life without parole...if he can successfully pass a competency test. If he's being tried as an adult, he should have the exact same rights as an adult, and any half-witted idiot lawyer would claim incompetency in a minute if it was allowed, I'm sure. If memory serves correctly, he's got a 50/50 shot of passing it.

Regardless, putting that child in an adult jail is sick beyond comprehension. I don't think he deserves to be sexually violated every day for years, and prison being what it is and him being super-easy prey, it's unrealistic to think this won't happen.
edit on 26-1-2011 by gnosticquasar because: (no reason given)

posted on Jan, 26 2011 @ 12:39 AM

off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


posted on Jan, 26 2011 @ 12:40 AM
Sounds like a real emotional discipline problem, so I am going to have to put my foot down here and say no TV for a week, and he has to mow the lawn all summer, and no more soda until he gets his grades up.

Boy I hate being so harsh, but something has to be done.

posted on Jan, 26 2011 @ 12:49 AM
reply to post by DimensionalDetective

I posted the following to one of my threads:

"Dimensional Detective - I give up.

Every time I turn around there's another story posted by you that only serves to confirm in no uncertain terms that our Constitution is indeed dead, nobody cares and we're pretty much screwed.

The sheer volume of stories I see on ATS by Dimensional Detective and others that expose the lawlessness of the status quo is mind boggling.

Where's John Titor's civil war when we need it? Have we really gone beyond the point of no return.

I'm reminded of a line from Vanilla Sky spoken by the Kurt Russel character:
"Mortality as home entertainment? This can't be the future."

America has been absolutely and "fundamentally transformed". I don't need to prove it anymore. Just keep reading Dimensional Detective's threads. If you can keep up.

I hope he can keep up with the mêlée.
Sadly the absurdity of our situation has become the norm and all the clocks are striking thirteen.

It's over America.

And we did it to ourselves."

Give 'em Hell DimensionalDetective!

edit on 1/26/2011 by this_is_who_we_are because: kudos

posted on Jan, 26 2011 @ 01:17 AM
reply to post by DimensionalDetective

...shot and killed his father's pregnant fiancee...

If this case happened in Canada, that 11-yr-old would be slapped on the bum a few times and then would be released on parole...that is how sad Canada's justice system really is for ANY age.

In the US, I'm pretty sure the law is different. Each state has it's own laws. Case in point:
Pennsylvania Prisoners

Pennsylvania has two death sentences. The obvious one torments the prisoner on death row for ten years and then kills him. The second death sentence is called life in prison. The prisoner dies from old age and despair. There's no parole, no clemency, no rehabilitation.

Pennsylvania doesn't like its citizens. It doesn't believe in their rehabilitation. Most life sentences are for convictions of murder which is certainly a heinous crime. In Pennsylvania many persons get sentences equivalent to life, but "in numbers," as they say. Sentences of 60, 80 even 120 years are not uncommon. Those are death sentences. Pennsylvania is that kind of a place.

At present there are over 4200 persons serving life sentences in Pennsylvania. Most are Afro-Americans. Over 6800 others are serving excessively long sentences (mostly blacks convicted of robbery or drug offenses). Each one of these prisoners cost the taxpayers in excess of $38,000 per year. They are without hope or prospects. Pennsylvania isn't interested in rehabilitation or helping people.

Doing good is not in the state's political thinking. Persons serving life sentences have special problems, but they also give the prison system its stability. Generally, lifers are the "best" and most "normal" prisoners; trying to survive in the most hostile of environments.

Also in, they are alleged stories from prisoners serving life sentences. Here is one that I found interesting which is not too far off from this thread story:
Life is Forever

Hello, my name is Danny. I'm also a Pennsylvania Lifer. I've been in prison for 35 years. I made a mistake when I was a kid, 17 years old. I must pay for that mistake for the rest of my life. There is no second chance. There is no forgiveness. There is no hope for freedom.

I'm not the same person that made the mistake 35 years ago. I've grown older. I've learned from my mistakes. All people make mistakes as teenagers or young adults. People grow, learn and change as they get older. By nature alone, nobody is the same at 50 years old as they were at 17 years old.

No matter how much I've changed, no matter how sorry I am for my mistake, no matter how much time I serve in prison, Pennsylvania law says there is no forgiveness. I'm so grateful the good man above doesn't believe that way. He has forgiven me for my mistake....

That being the Pennsylvania, the law is the law. Does it need changing? It depends if you believe that taking a life should be repaid by giving your life as punishment. It can be a gray area for most law makers.

Think of this though...if an 11-year old learns how to kill people at a young age, what do you think their mentality will say? That it is OKAY to kill people. Counseling for this child should be in place. Not sure about life because at that age those kids don't know any better.

I feel sorry for the man's fiance and his lost baby. I really do.
edit on 26-1-2011 by Skywatcher2011 because: edit word

edit on 26-1-2011 by Skywatcher2011 because: added fact

posted on Jan, 26 2011 @ 01:37 AM
I think he'll probably end up getting paroled eventually, maybe after serving 30 years or so with the rest of the sentence pending if he behaves, or if he doesn't behave he'll be put back in jail, and have to serve the rest of his sentence.

I think that would be appropriate. 11 years old is old enough to know better.

posted on Jan, 26 2011 @ 01:43 AM
I find it pretty sad that kids are treated like incompetant retards, unless they do something wrong. Then all of a sudden they should be treated like full grown adults. Just shows you how out of control our for profit "justice" system has gotten I guess.

posted on Jan, 26 2011 @ 02:13 AM

Originally posted by TKDRL
Then all of a sudden they should be treated like full grown adults.
I think what you meant to say is "Then all of a sudden after they murder somebody, they should be treated like full grown adults."

It reads a little differently when you include the text you forgot to include, about committing murder.

posted on Jan, 26 2011 @ 02:18 AM
reply to post by DimensionalDetective

As you say, he's 11. he very literally was not "in his right mind" because his mind was not fully developed. Kids aren't "miniature adults," - they're not stupid, but the wires aren't all connected.

I can't say what a good penalty for him is, only that throwing him in the institution for the rest of his life would be excessive even if he were an adult.

posted on Jan, 26 2011 @ 02:21 AM
reply to post by Arbitrageur


I find it pretty sad that kids are treated like incompetant retards, unless they do something wrong. Then all of a sudden they should be treated like full grown adults. Just shows you how out of control our for profit "justice" system has gotten I guess.

And it is not just murder BTW, it happens in a lot of other instances as well.

posted on Jan, 26 2011 @ 02:29 AM
reply to post by TKDRL

I saw that but "unless they did something wrong" makes me think of wrong things kids do like putting a burning bag of dog poop on someone's doorstep and ringing the doorbell, or maybe stealing. Yes kids do wrong things, but usually it isn't murder.

posted on Jan, 26 2011 @ 03:27 AM
I've probably read most of the articles on this case and like most others here, sad sad sad.

The boy was 11. probably as close to a father an only child and son could possibly get then to have to share it all with a complete stranger with a family of her own was probably tough enough and not without it's own problems then to find out you will no longer be the light of the father knowing another son is about to come in to the world and rip daddy's attention away from daddy's can't help not know how this kid must have felt and his father thought "she'll be right mate" attitude. The picture must had been on the wall. You can't ignore these feelings in a child whether he spoke of them or not.

An 11 year old in a grown man's jail; that won't happen until he's legal age. He probably will go to a psychiatrict institution until he's old enough to meet the criteria of a man's prison or put in solitary confinement until he's 18.

As for the father and the family of the victim, they each have websites that I jumped on to to find out more about this story. The father was told time and time again to take off photos of his son playing with the woman and her 2 daughters. He removed a photo as requested but only replaced it by another photo of woman and the 3 kids. The father appears to be in denial of his son's crime and he's not helping himself or his son by throwing more oil on the fire towards his dead wife's family. I can understand the father wants to help his only child but he's not going the right way about it.

By the son showing no remorse tells me either he's innocent or really hated his step parent and sisters. Evidence seems to point to this child.

As for the father...he should be charged with manslaughter by allowing his son to have 5 guns (not 1) in his bedroom including ammunition and because it was used in a criminal case of murder. No 11 year old can be responsible to have within reach such lethal toys in the first place and the guns should had been locked up in the first place. The father was irresponsible and should be held accountable as his son. It's obvious this kid needs help and I hope the appropriate help is given to this kid while he's in jail or he will no doubt and it's more likely he'll reoffend again once he's out.

posted on Jan, 26 2011 @ 03:43 AM

Originally posted by SaturnFX
Reading alot of how a 11 year old can be responsible like an adult

Here is a mental exercise...if a 11 year old should face adult consequences, should they also be able to have the benefits of adults?

Should the age of sexual consent be lowered to 11?

Should a 11 year old be able to drive? to operate heavy machinery? to drink at bars?

Explain why you can punish a 11 year old like an adult because they know what they are doing, yet they cant go off and have a 45 year old boy/girlfriend if they want, or get liquored up.

Ya, thought so...nothing like hypocracy to get things back into perspective.

The kid needs therapy..the crime is horrible...there is some flawed parenting going on here, and it needs to be sorted.
Vengence imprisonment of a child is not doing our justice system or our country as a whole any good.

Quoted for truth. How can someone be tried as an adult when he is not an adult yet under the law? What about ten or nine years olds? Will those be sent to prison too? Where do we draw the line?

Whether you agree with the punishment or not, this is simply not how justice should be done. These laws are a joke...

posted on Jan, 26 2011 @ 03:48 AM
reply to post by rsronce9

You are brainless. There is a big difference between 11 and 25.
This kid should be treated for mental health until he is 18 and then evaluated. Then if he didn't pass evaluation held until 20 and then if he still doesn't pass be considered for permanent institutionalization.

posted on Jan, 26 2011 @ 03:50 AM
reply to post by HoldTheBeans

It drives me mad.
There shouldn't even be a saying "tried as an adult" if you are a kid, why should you be tried as an adult YOU AREN'T AN ADULT!

posted on Jan, 26 2011 @ 05:14 AM
reply to post by BAMstomper

Mod Note: Please Stay on Topic

back on topic, a child is a child and therefore can not foresee the consequences of there actions until their brains are fully developed, i am sure its when you get to about 17. the problem is that when a young kid goes to prison then they will almost always come out worse. love, care and the teaching of ethics make a child happy and into a good person but you dont get that in prison(maybe some unwanted love).

its hard to think of a fitting punishment but the child should be put into some kind of care with less freedom than other children but a prison is no place for an 11 year old child no matter what they have done. maybe they could have a review on the care and he could be sent to some kind of mental health facility as he will be extremely damaged from what he has done and it will only get worse as he gets older.

edit on Wed Jan 26 2011 by DontTreadOnMe because: (no reason given)

posted on Jan, 26 2011 @ 05:32 AM
It's a different ball of wax, at eleven, than at thirty years old.
Did he know he was doing something wrong? yes.

Did he completely understand the utter finality of what he was doing, and the implications? No.

He's either antisocial, psychotic, or just plain stupid. It's for the psychiatrists to sort out.

Two of three above he can be rehabilitated and helped. If it turns out he's antisocial, then he won't be compatible with society, and he's just getting started. Perhaps a budding Ted Bundy, or a Charles Manson.

Perhaps just a stupid kid who made a big mistake.

There can't be a hard and fast rule for deciding what to do with these children. Repercussions must be decided and determined on an individual basis. At the same time, society must be protected from homicidal tendencies, if he in fact has them, and this wasn't just a "stupid thing".

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